Questions remain in dazzling proposal

Why are the Rays doing this?

Because they want to. The Rays could stay at Tropicana Field, but say they are making this pitch because they see the opportunity to not only get a new stadium but to help transform downtown as well.

What if this stadium deal falls through?

From what the Rays say, things would be pretty much status quo. They’d keep playing at Tropicana Field – they have a lease through 2027 – and probably try again for a new stadium at a later date. But it would remain to be seen how long Stuart Sternberg would want to own the team in that situation.

What would the new stadium be called?

It depends who wants to pay for it, because the naming rights will be available for purchase. According to the Rays, Tropicana’s naming rights are specific to the current stadium, so presumably they would get a refund. There is talk of preserving the history and tradition of the site by including a reference to Al Lang – in either the stadium name or the “cove” behind the rightfield wall – to preserve the tradition.

What’s with the design?

Rather than a brick-based  retro look that has been all the rage, the Rays are looking to the future with what principal owner Stuart Sternberg termed a “more sweeping, open, inviting” design. And without a brick in it.

What’s the tall pole all about?

That’s a 320-foot mast that anchors the roof and is part of what the Rays consider an "iconic" design.

What are the specifics?

The stadium would hold 34,000 fans (most in the lower deck) and would be open air with a cable supported, sail-like covering that a team official described as "a glorified umbrella." The field would have standard dimensions. Balls hit over the rightfield wall would splash into the bay.

Isn’t it going to be hot and sweaty?

Of course, it’s Florida in the summer time. But the Rays say it will be reasonably comfortable – more so than Atlanta, on par with St. Louis or Kansas City – for several reasons: the roof, which will be deployed during the day to keep heat from building up; the breezes off Tampa Bay; and cooling devices such as fans or misters.

What about rain and lighting?

The sail-like cover can be deployed in about eight minutes, and the Rays say it would provide enough covering to prevent postponements and delays expect in the most severe storms.

What about parking?

It may be a problem, especially at first. Like Wrigley Field in Chicago and Fenway Park in Boston, there will be very little parking at the site. The Rays say there are currently are about 12,000 spots within a short walk of the stadium, and there may be more when it opens. Fans would have to get used to walking or taking shuttles.

Is there really enough room for a stadium on that site?

It’s going to be tight, but by reorienting the field – so rightfield abuts the water – and extending Bayshore Drive into the bay it can fit with standard dimensions. To make it work, there would be no seats from the rightfield foul pole across to left-centerfield.

Would players like it?

The heat would certainly have an effect on the players, as it does in Texas and Miami, though they might enjoy being outside. The Rays would likely play as many games at night as they could.

Would there be more than Rays games there?

Probably. The stadium could accommodate a football field, which could lead to a college bowl game, and could be the site of concerts and other events.

How can the Rays sell the Tropicana site even though they don’t own it?

They can’t. The team would need the city and Pinellas County to agree.

What about the debt the city and county still have outstanding on Tropicana Field?

The Rays said what to do about the debt remains a question.

Do the Rays have a developer in mind for the Tropicana site?

Yes. The Rays are working with Hines Interests of Houston. But because the land is publicly owned, the city would have to issue a request for proposals from developers. A developer other than Hines could be awarded the site.

What retail options are coming to the Tropicana site?

The Rays won’t say. But they do at least have one specific major outdoors retailer in mind.

Where’s the money coming from for the new stadium?

The biggest chunk, the Rays say, would come from the sale of Tropicana Field and adjacent parking lots to a private developer. The Rays say that transaction could raise between $250-$300-million toward the new stadium. But that includes property tax revenues generated by the redeveloped Trop site.

What are the Rays contributing?

The team said it is prepared to increase its rent payments from about $1-million a year to $10-million a year. The money, which will be paid to the city, would then help pay for construction of the new ballpark.

Is the team seeking money from the state?

Yes. The Rays say the money, $60-million paid out over 30 years, is important but not a deal breaker.

Who’s on the hook if the stadium goes over its $450-million budget?

The Rays say they will cover cost overruns.

– Marc Topkin and Aaron Sharockman, Times Staff Writers

Comments

[Thomas]

Maybe the question you should ask is: "Are you totally insane?"

The Rays DO NOT own the Trop site. So while they are proudly claiming "no new taxes" -- they are still diverting public money to the team. Additionally, they would plan to divert property taxes from the newly redeveloped site to the team.

Redevelopment revenues should NOT be going to the Rays, nor should property taxes.

But it gets even worse. Al Lang field is not the property of the Rays either.

So they are asking St.Pete to give them not one but two extremely valuable parcels of land to fund their new stadium. But, hey, they're not "new taxes"

This is an outrageous plan - the City Council should walk away immediately. I'm offended at the Rays complete disregard for the public. They display this plan as if we are nothing but village idiots, waiting to hand them hundreds of millons of dollars. NO WAY.

At least we have an ironclad lease for the Rays at the Trop. We wont have to be bothered with idle threats of "build this new park or we're going to relocate"

NO - END OF STORY.

[John]

Very pretty, flashy, even! Here's the deal. Who is going to walk 15 minutes in 90+ degree heat during an afternoon LIGHTNING STORM to a Rays "evening" game downtown? More importantly, who, other than St Pete residents, are going to go through the HASSLE of driving all the way from Clearwater, Tampa and beyond to fight the traffic and spend an hour hunting for an overpriced parking garage spot? They won't even do that for games at the easily accesible Tractor Pull dome now!!! And the following quote "The team believes the stadium would become a destination, with fans spending hours before and after games in the area"....they said THE SAME EXACT THING when they sold us on the Trop!!! And furthermore, if "most of the games" will be played at night, then who's going to see the water in the dark? Who's going to spend hours in downtown St Pete at night getting chased around by bums, the homeless and panhandlers? Are you people seriously out of your minds??

Tear down Al Lang, make it a PERMANENT PARK as it was destined to become in the 1st place. Tear down and re-develop the Trop site, and move the team to a location that will draw fans from ALL over the TAMPA BAY AREA. GEE, there's 80+ undeveloped acres at Toytown!!! (275 and Roosevelt), there's PLENTY of land in Carillon at the east end of the property (Ulmerton & 275) RIGHT BY THE BRIDGE!!! There's PLENTY of room at the old Boatyard Village (NE Corner of St Pete Clwtr Airport property @ the Bayside Bridge).....This is NOT Boston, we do not have comparable downtowns, folks. We need a stadium that is centrally located for ALL residents to enjoy. And I am a native of St Pete, if that matters. Oh, and don't even get me started about the BLUE HAIRS in Bayfront Tower next door constantly complaining about noise....can you imagine 34,000 people a block away from their bedrooms? BAHAHAHHAHA good luck we'll see how that works out for ya Stu!

[Dave]

Looks cool! Seems like the plans have been carefully thought through. Too bad there's not better mass transportation in Pinellas.

[Brendan]

Seriously? This has basically been talked to death already. Everyone has chosen sides and unless something major changes with the plan (Rays pay for everything, new location, move the team), it probably won't happen. Is no one noticing the glaring problem with the design? Why is there a basically, free-standing 320-foot lightning conductor in the middle of a populated area? What happens during a hurricane when the mast destroys half of downtown? People saying that parking is also an issue in places like Boston and Chicago, but they still manage, does not apply to us. Those cities have well-operated subway and public transportation systems that have been in place for many many years. A "short walk" might be considered half-a-mile to a mile. Really who is gonna walk that far realistically?

[Edward]

The poll and the guide wires for the sails will make a nice lightning rod. It storms around here most afternoons/evenings during the rainy season... how do the Rays plan on dealing with the lightning?

[George]

Yes, we should also tear down all of the condo's and buildings downtown taller than 2 stories since they also pose huge threats to the community by attracting all that lightning.

[steve]

If true about all the finances, a wonderful, beautiful park!For those who choose to be negative all the time....STAY HOME, better seats available to us fans who remain positive.I'm way more than sick and tired of all of the negativity the majority of people around here exhibit. Do the rest of us a favor and move out of the area!! Please.

[D-Ray]

This is an absolute HOME RUN!

Let's grow up St. Pete and become a major league downtown... http://www.majorleaguedowntown.com

[D-Ray]

Right on, Steve. I'm tired of all the misinformed pessimists as well. That kind of backward mentality keeps communities from growing.

[Brendan]

George, ball games are delayed or called off when there is lightning in the area. What would happen if during most thunder storms, that mast was hit by lightning? Would you want to show up to the game and have it called off because of a problem that could have been discussed and fixed before construction? This may seem like a samll problem, but could potentially become a big one.

[Thomas]

STEVE "STAY HOME, better seats available to us fans who remain positive."

Are you brain dead??

So you're all for staying positive while the Rays funnel over $400M of public money into their pockets?

How about a lollipop for our sucker ...

[SmarterThanYou]

concrete is such an excellent electrical conductor, huh?

[SmarterThanYou]

maybe we could use the lightning to jump start all these brain dead negative people.

[Thomas]

DRAY, if you really wanted a "major league" downtown, you would NOT endorse handing over $400M to the Rays. You'd spread that money around and redevelop multi-cultural attractions.

But you're just the village idiot - a patsy for the Rays.

Hey D - they say they want you to put on a Dress and Lipstick next. So go get changed.

Dunce.

[SmarterThanYou]

BUILD IT. <- period

[Thomas]

AS SOON AS YOU FIND SOMEONE TO PAY FOR IT <--- Period

[SmarterThanYou]

Whoa, Thomas is a jackass, huh?

[D-Ray]

Jackass is too kind.

[Brendan]

Where in the plans does it say concrete? Did I miss that or is it fabrication? Concrete cables and wires as well?

[Thomas]

Just to be clear:

You two half wits favor-

1) Allowing the Rays to redevelop the land at the Trop they do not own and keep the profits for their own private use

2) Allowing the Rays to redevleop the land at Al Lang that they also do not own for their own private profit.

Perhaps you two should also allow the Rays to redevelop the land your homes are on and then use that money for their stadium as well.

You see, the problem is you confuse the idea of being a fan of the team with writing a blank check.

So once again, who's the dope ?

For the rest of us, it's pretty clear.

[Why]

Thomas, why do you think the money goes in the Rays pockets? They won't own the land or the new stadium just like they don't own the Trop or the land it's on. If they don't move out of the Trop, there will be no money generated from redevelopment there. Why wouldn't you use that money to build the new stadium? It's a wash. It's nothing if they stay at the Trop. And there are tons of construction workers hurting really bad right now for work all over the Tampa Bay area. If this deal goes through, there will be alot of people getting steady work who otherwise are not.

[SmarterThanYou]

Having an MLB team is a commodity. They can continue to play in that eyesore known as the trop, consuming 1,100,000 sq. ft. of public space, or switch to the Al Lang site (which is currently a run down ballpark) and use 865,000 sq. ft. of public space instead, bringing with it a huge face lift to downtown, all while bringing a sense of community pride as eco-friendly spaces. As quoted from their development site... By moving from Tropicana Field to the new ballpark, the Rays are reducing their carbon footprint by almost 70%. Additionally, the Rays’ commitment to sustainable design and LEED certification will make the new ballpark one of the most environmentally-friendly stadiums in North America.

Go put your lipstick and dress on, buddy.

[Thomas]

First off, we are in ZERO danger of losing our MLB commodity.

The lease at the Trop is ironclad. We wont be bothered with "build it or we'll leave" threats.

[Thomas]

Thomas, why do you think the money goes in the Rays pockets? They won't own the land or the new stadium just like they don't own the Trop or the land it's on.

-- True, they wont own the land or the stadium - The public will. And we'll incur all of the debt, operation/maintenance cost, depreciation that goes along with it.

Meanwhile, the Rays will collect all the profits.

[SmarterThanYou]

Wasn't suggesting that.

[D-Ray]

This is an absolute HOME RUN!

Let's grow up St. Pete and become a major league downtown... http://www.majorleaguedowntown.com

[Thomas]

Why wouldn't you use that money to build the new stadium?

- Because you're taking PUBLIC money and giving it to a PRIVATE business. If we could redevelop the Trop then use the profits to redevelop additional multi-use / community developments, the deal would be much more agreeable.

As is, it's just a greedy and ruthless cash grab by the Rays.

[Thomas]

Oh, so the Rays are going to build an "Eco Friendly" park, therefore we should just hand over $480M to them.

You're not very bright are you.

Also, you're not very original. I told you that you were a patsy for the team and that if they told you to put on a dress and lipstick you would. Now run along and get changed little doggie.

[Thomas]

The Rays DO NOT own the Trop site. So while they are proudly claiming "no new taxes" -- they are still diverting hundreds of millons of public dollars to the team.

Redevelopment revenues should NOT be going to the Rays, nor should property taxes.

But it gets even worse.

Al Lang field is NOT the property of the Rays either.

So they are asking St.Pete to give them not one but two extremely valuable parcels of land to further their own private interest under the deception of "no new taxes".

They think we are nothing but village idiots, unable to see the bottom line.

We have an ironclad lease for the Rays at the Trop.

NO - END OF STORY.

[why]

"If we could redevelop the Trop then use the profits to redevelop additional multi-use / community developments, the deal would be much more agreeable."

Thomas, of course the deal would be much more agreeable. But that is not going to happen. No team anywhere pays for every dollar of a new stadium. The Rays certainly aren't going to do it. They will just stay at the Trop. I actually like the Trop, but it is one of the worst stadiums out there (if not the worst). Of all the new stadiums that have been built around the country, this deal might be one of the best for the city involved.

[Thomas]

How do you figure this is ".. this deal might be one of the best for the city involved." ?

I like the Trop just fine. And this whole conversation is separate from being a fan of the Rays.

You can be a fan and oppose giving away public money for a stadium.

I hope they don't trade Young for Garza - that would be foolish. Especially with the Twins listening to offers for Johan. Why not add some more and try for him. (Say Young, Rocco, and Iwamura/prospects)

A rotation of Santana, Shields, Kazmir would put them in contention right away.

[Charlie T]

This is only being proposed because they can't get out of their contract on the Trop. The proper thing to do is to buy out of the contract and build a proper stadium at the Fair Grounds at the junction of I-4 & Rt.75 giving access N/S & E/W combining the Orlando to St. Pet - Tampa Fans with the Port Charlotte to Gainesville fans. Now you have a chance to fill the stadium & be able to make money on parking without giving it away. Plan 2 get into the play offs field a consistent winner and the you can afford AC for a new park

[IronMikie]

If the new Stadium is built what will happend to the St. Pete Grand Prix?

[Robert Walker]

Ah, where to begin? Walking 15 minutes in the heat to get to the stadium is not an issue. Most fan did it for the first 8 years of the Trop until the over-priced stadium parking (thanks, Vince)was changed to free-parking. The design is certainly beautiful. Objections that the plan allows revenues from two public lands to go to private hands are valid, but I view this as simply the Devil Rays management's first offer in what should be a negotiation. Let's hope the city's side of the negotiation has some sharp bargainers. Speaking of names (I know at least some of you noticed my use of "Devil Rays"), did you notice "St. Petersburg" displayed prominently in the artist rendering of the stadium facade and also cut into the outfield grass? The last item in the city's negotiations, after a better financial deal had been cut, would be quite simply another name change: how do you local fan like the sound of the St. Petersburg Devil Rays? Such a package would get my vote.

[Thomas]

Ah, after reading more information, I've decided to change my stance. I was being short-sighted and idiotic. My life partner agrees. This plan really does make sense. The only thing that worries me now is whether my lipstick will smear when walking to the beautiful new ballpark.

[Come Sail Away & catch some Rays]

It's a Grand Slam Splash Blast, win - win from every aspect for beautiful, wonderful, classy, artsy, vibrant livable downtown St. Pete & Bay Areaentire area.

Any current or future $'s going toward education, schools, teachers, firemen, policemen, roads, & other infrastructure folk complains about will NOT be diverted to this proposal, it's not that hard to understand.

Also, cities all across the country with or without a major league baseball team, have had tax issues the past few years, so don't put that on the Rays being here; If anything this would help generate more book revenue, thus lowering taxes. Any resident would be asinine to not see the positive potential. So all you jealous haters, ha ha ha, how u likes now.
The heat factor is way overblown.

The parking issue is so minor.

These are just excuses for some(transplants) to grind their ax & try to cause unnecessary tension.
St. Pete has some so far to regress, we're only going to get better, so get use to or do us all a favor and leave you want be missed, but I know you love here in paradise you can't leave, so some revert to bashing because more people will respond to voice their displeasure than people who are in favor of it.

And for you Tampons (yeah, I'm referring to lil' Bronx on the inland side of the bay) who think their poop smell like roses, eat your hearts out, because our downtown puts your to big time shame, so face it & go put on your Pampa, crybabies ( you can't have everything @your backdoor) and you support the team any better. Rays & St. Pete is a life long marriage, so roll that up in your cigar and smoke it, while we continue to enjoy the sun, the bay, glare from the gleaming, sunbursting glint.

I wonder petty goober citizens in other metro regions, wine about driving 20 - 30 miles to see MLB, NOT!

Another Great Day in St. Petersburg!

[Thomas 1]

The original can never be topped.

Although this is a great insight into the mind of someone who supports this plan:

"Ah, after reading more information, I've decided to change my stance. I was being short-sighted and idiotic. My life partner agrees. This plan really does make sense. The only thing that worries me now is whether my lipstick will smear when walking to the beautiful new ballpark."

So to recap, if you operate at a 5th grade level, you support the Rays plan and makes posts like this.

Thanks for letting your dim light shine.

[Thomas]

I thinks I am schizophrenic. I don't know what I'm saying from one minute to the next. Maybe I should move outta' town.

[Thomas 1]

Look, I'm Thomas 1 now. Maybe I'll be Thomas the Train next. I'm coo coo for cocoa puffs.

[Thomas]

Is that really the best you got?

Once again, all you're doing is displaying for all to see what type of person favors this deal.

So please, post some more.

[Thomas]

It's okay little boy, I understand.

You can't support your opinion with any type of logic, so the only thing left to do is make moronic posts.

The Rays deal is totally absurd and hence, a vast majority of the people oppose it. You're stuck all by yourself - on your lonely island of low IQ.

I sympathize with you. Here are you, getting crushed by the facts of the situation, and you have no recourse other than to change the subject, or try some personal attack.

It's okay. Get it all out. I'm here for you.

[Mediator]

You both are idiots. I support the plan.

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/11/29/devil-rays-new-stadium

[Thomas]

So you support the plan, then you post a website that doesn't support the plan.

Oh - the witty dichotomy you bring.

I'm in awe of you.

[Mediator]

Enough venom already. I posted it for your cynical pleasure.

[Thomas]

Fair enough.

The stadium plan is an absurd and horrible deal, but this wasnt:

Minnesota sends RHP Matt Garza, SS Jason Bartlett, and RHP Eduardo Morlan to Tampa for OF Delmon Young, 2B/3B Brendan Harris, and OF Jason Pridie

They give up a guy stuck in an overcrowded outfield and a defensive liability for a great young arm, and a great defensive SS, plus a future closer.

That's solid work right there.

[Mediator]

I agree with the trade. Well done. And I like the pickup of Percival. We need a stud behind the plate now.

Alas, I do want the new ballpark and Trop-land reinvention very badly. And it will be a draw for players as well... Bartlett mentioned that he was pleased to hear about the new ballpark proposal.

[rr]

Since Bartlett is not a St. Pete taxpayer who will be fleeced, it's easy for him to say he likes the proposal.

[SmarterThanYou]

St. Pete needs this deal.

[Thomas]

Why does St. Pete "need" this deal?

Thrall us with your acumen Mr. Smarty.

Please, educate us on why this is deal is so good that we "need" it.

Please, be specific.

[jeff]

What would the stadium be named?
Home of the Tent Slashers

[Jason]

The ballpark a draw for players? Are you fuc king mad or just plain stupid. Ballplayers want a) Money b) a chance to win a ring..something the Rays present ownership will never give.

[cesar]

"Thomas" must be a second year law intern for either a Tampa or an Orlando political representative.

[rr]

Cesar must be an idiot disguised as salad dressing.