Sternberg: Plan not a ploy to leave town

It's been one of the good conspiracy theories floating around the Internet: The Tampa Bay Rays' plan to build a new $450-million waterfront stadium is all a ploy to skip town. Once the voters turn the team down, the story goes, the Rays will have all the ammunition they need to head for Tampa, Orlando or points elsewhere. We put the question to Rays principal owner Stu Sternberg when we caught him on the phone today.

"It’s not the case. And I think, given the amount of time, energy, effort, resources, money and everything else, it would be pretty Machiavellian of us," Sternberg said.

Sternberg also addressed concerns that for months the stadium planning process was kept secret.

"I understand the concerns on how things were going on behind the scenes," Sternberg said. "But if some of this groundwork wasn’t done, we’d be sitting here now with a bunch of big question marks and no answers. The last thing I want to say is 'I don’t know' and then go ahead and put forth a $1-billion plan."

- Aaron Sharockman, Times Staff Writer

Comments

[Ron]

All the Rays have said since this first leaked is "I Don't Know". They haven't answered any questions regarding the financing. During that joke of a live Q&A here at the SP Times, they danced around the questions like they were Baryshnikov.

Not to mention the elected leaders in St. Pete lied to the voters by having a referendum on the waterfornt while they were secretly negotiating with the Rays.

This whole deal stinks. Vote NO.

[Brent]

Ron please read the whole story before you make comments like this...

I am guessing you are happy with how St. Pete looks and the direction it is heading: which is backwards and not forwards. It is run down and looks horrible. Plus I am sure change scares the hell out of you and you were one of the folks who voted for the Bucs to not build a new stadium. See how well things have turned out for that Franchise...

I hate to be the one who says this to you but we are in the 21st century... but plese let me be the first one to welcome you to it...
Vote Yes and Go Rays!!!!!

[bax back on board]

It's a charade. It's a chance for developers, bond brokers, attorneys, contractors, and other friends of Rick Baker to feed at the public trough--all aided and abetted by the St Pete Times. The proposition will lose by about 2 to 1 when all the facts are known.

[Thomas]

BRENT,

Let me make sure I understand your post. In your opinion, we should support this plan because:

1- It will help the Franchise, like it did for the Bucs.
2- Downtown looks run down and horrible, so the BEST way to fix it is with a baseball stadium.
3- If you don't support this plan, then you don't live in the 21st century.

Congratulations, you are the typical village idiot who associates being a fan of the Rays with universally accepting whatever lopsided deal they propose. If the Rays told you to put on a dress and lipstick, you'd do it.

This plan is a horrible deal for the city. So, let's go back to your list of points:

1- It's not the taxpayers role to help the "franchise". Perhaps the owners should address the state of their team, not the public.
2- Instead of dumping over $400M into one single purpose stadium (that does not even provide a return on the investment due to tax breaks and TIF financing schemes) we need a plan that would create multiple multi-use, culturally enriching venues.
3- Ron asking hard questions about financing is an astute point, not some prehistoric and misguided opinion.

So, Brent, here's your dunce hat - go sit in the corner.

[Thomas]

In Defense of the SPT.

I oppose this plan based on the proposed financing plan. However, I think the SPT has done a decent job of allowing an open dialog about the stadium.

It's obviously in SPT's best interest to be on the teams side - it helps them with access to the players, etc. But I think they've done a pretty respectable job of staying unbias.

[McLuhan]

I honestly can't believe they would go through everything they've gone through if they weren't sincere about keeping the team here. As I've have posted before, within the context of of MLB's approach to stadium location & design over the last 15+ years(well after the Trop's completion, but substantially before the award of the franchise), this is the best location available in the Tampa Bay area, & the initial feedback from MLB insiders & fans re:the design has been very positive. I'm sure the Rays' brass is probably becoming at least a bit annoyed by all the conspiracy theorists out there, but I hope they understand it's a by product of the semi-casual fans who don't follow the business of the game very closely. The parallel to the '96 C.I.T. vote in Tampa is very real, except that in this instance the citizens will not be asked to tax themselves to build a stadium, but simply for permission to build a stadium. I hope Stu Sternberg et,al also understand there is still residual heartburn out there regarding the process that led to the Trop's advent. That was over 20 years ago and is certainly not their fault, but in the coming campaign, it's an issue that needs to be, and I believe can be overcome. St Petersburg is large city with a small town feel, & as such, has it's own unique brand of politics contains a blend of both of these dynamics.

[B rent]

I DO wear a dress and lipstick, you creep.

And I have a closet full of dunce caps, too.

[*Brent]

I do wear a dress and lipstick, you creep. And I have a closet full of dunce caps, too.

[bax]

Again, this guy uses my name to bash every single thing the Rays say and do. He bashes everyone who posts their opinion. And he uses my name to do it. I am a Rays fan and I like the recent moves the Rays have made. I am also looking forward to the new stadium. This fake Bax person obviously just wants to make everyone hate the Rays as much as he does.

[the real bax]

Hpw dare you besmirch my name? You are obviously one of the stadium stooges trying to disrupt these message boards.

[bax]

Neither one of you guys is the real bax or else I'm going totally schizo. Please pass the Zoloft

[Ron]

Brent,
I don't know how you can arrive at the conclusion that downtown St Pete is rundown. You must never go there. There are several new condominiums, a renovated Mahaffey Theatre, a new Salvador Dali Museum being planned, several other musuems, new restaurants and nightclubs. On top of that, the city has many beautiful old, historic buildings preserved. It is a vibrant city center, much more active than Tampa or Clearwater. Frankly, downtown St Pete doesn't need the Rays. In 10 years, the team has done nothing to spur development (with the exception of transforming an old gas station into Ferg's).
Regarding the Community Investment Tax vote, that occurred in Hillsborough County, not Pinellas, so I did not vote either way, although I would have voted for it. That vote was not a referendum on building Ray J stadium. the CIT tax has raised billions and the stadium was only a small percentage of the total tax.
It is you who needs to become informed. The citizens of St Petersburg should not be stuck paying one dime towards paying for yet another stadium for the Rays. They have a taxpayer funded stadium and they should keep their commitment and play in it.

[Ron]

Brent,
I don't know how you can arrive at the conclusion that downtown St Pete is rundown. You must never go there. There are several new condominiums, a renovated Mahaffey Theatre, a new Salvador Dali Museum being planned, several other musuems, new restaurants and nightclubs. On top of that, the city has many beautiful old, historic buildings preserved. It is a vibrant city center, much more active than Tampa or Clearwater. Frankly, downtown St Pete doesn't need the Rays. In 10 years, the team has done nothing to spur development (with the exception of transforming an old gas station into Ferg's).

[Ron]

Regarding the Community Investment Tax vote, that occurred in Hillsborough County, not Pinellas, so I did not vote either way, although I would have voted for it. That vote was not a referendum on building Ray J stadium. the CIT tax has raised billions and the stadium was only a small percentage of the total tax.
It is you who needs to become informed. The citizens of St Petersburg should not be stuck paying one dime towards paying for yet another stadium for the Rays. They have a taxpayer funded stadium and they should keep their commitment and play in it.

[Hello]

To Ron & Thomas,
How slow is the Internet on your Apple IIE's? You spent hard earned money on your computers 20 years ago and I know there is no reason to upgrade as long as your Floppy Disk processor is functional.

[not bax]

hey original bax,

i once unknowingly usurped your name and falsely accused someone (possibly you) of stealing it from me. my apologies. this other usurping bax who keeps appearing is not me, maybe not you but also maybe you. i don't know who i'm talking to. dad?

happy holidays from:
not the real bax or the fake bax although i was mistakenly bax once and won't be again because it's too confusing

[JTB]

Ron,

You're right that the Trop hasn't spurred any development. But that doesn't necessarily mean that baseball stadiums CAN'T spur development. They usually don't because their districts are so horribly planned (like the Trop and most other new parks). A well-planned, integrated stadium district can indeed spur development (see: Camden Yards, PNC park). Just because the Trop was a failure doesn't not guarantee failure for the new stadium. The two projects have very significant differences.

[please don't call me bax]

Yeah, the main ones being that the new one is smaller, lacks any parking, involves environmentally sensitive land, won't protect patrons from summer humidity, and robs downtown of beautiful green space that the public can enjoy 100 percent of the time.

And of course, it will be 75 percent funded by publicly-owned assets and maintained by tax money.

[Urban Ballparks are a Proven Success]

I love that people complain about how the Trop does nothing for the surrounding area, then the same people bash all things (decentralized parking, open-air field, etc) that successfully integrate downtown ballparks and spur adjacent economic development. You can't have it both ways!!

[McLuhan]

To those who say the Trop has not spurred any meaningful redevelopment, they are correct! It's been more of a catalyst than a generator. However, if this plan comes to fruition the type of redevelopment that other downtown stadiums have spurred in economically depressed areas will occur(think Camden Yards in Baltimore). In this instance though, the new stadium will be located 8 blocks east. The problem with the Trop, besides it's baseball unfriendly design is that it takes up way more space than it should. Using 20/20 hindsight, some form of what's being proposed for the Trop site now should have been incorporated into the original visioning, but again that was over 20 years ago, when baseball parks were being built in suburban/rural areas with wide expanses of space(think Kauffmann Stadium in Kansas City). The Trop is located in an urban setting, yet was conceived designed, & built within that suburban/rural frame of reference. In answer to comments about the C.I.T. referendum in Tampa in 1996, to say that vote was not about building a stadium smacks of revisionism. To facilitate the best opportunity for passage, it was dressed up with dollars for public safety, & education. The C.I.T. contributions in those areas have been commendable; with the new police headquarters in the old Sun Trust Bank building in downtown Tampa being among the most visible. However, that vote would never have occurred without the pressing issue of a new stadium for the Bucs. It should again be noted that this referendum is not about new tax dollars, but rather about seeking permission to build on the Al Lang site, in accordance with the City Charter.

[Skipper]

There's a song named "Jellas Fellas", which are what some are on this message board.

Vote, YES YES YES for new bayfont stadium. It's a win-win for St. Pete and entire Bay area, regardless of what some post. The negativity, I SKIP, unread.

[Mother Bax]

Baxter, get inside and clean yourself up. I told you an hour ago it's time to do your homework. If you keep getting bad grades you'll grow up to hate every good idea the Rays have.

[Eric]

It may be true that St Pete doesn't *need* the new ballpark, in the same sense that a person driving an old (but functioning) junker doesn't *need* a new car.

But of course that's seen from the perspective of someone who really likes baseball in St. Pete, genuinely cares about the Rays, likes going to spring training games ten times better than the Trop, and--most relevantly--wouldn't mind spending their tax $ to approve an investment like this.

I doubt the majority of St. Pete citizens feel that way. And who can blame them given the past ten years w/ the Rays? Dissenters are rightly infuriated by their perception of being cowed into it by the city; it is completely unjust. (Cf. Troxler's columns)

I guess we'll see what everyone (i.e. not just the subset of crotchety dudes on blog comment boards) really thinks when the referendum is up for vote.

Go Rays

[Eric]

It may be true that St Pete doesn't need the new ballpark, in the same sense that a person driving an old (but functioning) junker doesn't need a new car.

But of course that's seen from the perspective of someone who really likes baseball in St. Pete, genuinely cares about the Rays, likes going to spring training games ten times better than the Trop, and--most relevantly--wouldn't mind spending their tax $ to approve an investment like this.

I doubt the majority of St. Pete citizens feel that way. And who can blame them given the past ten years w/ the Rays? Dissenters are rightly infuriated by their perception of being cowed into it by the city; it is completely unjust. (Cf. Troxler's columns)

I guess we'll see what everyone (i.e. not just the subset of crotchety dudes on blog comment boards) really thinks when the referendum is up for vote.

Go Rays

[JTB]

Urban Ballparks are a Proven Success,

Couldn't have said it better myself! For those who fail to see the differences between the Trop and the new park in this regard, the debate is sadly already over.

[Thomas]

First - we are in NO danger of losing the Rays. St. Pete has an ironclad lease with them through 2027. The are NOT leaving.

Next, this stadium plan is horrible and will be soundly defeated.

Also -- for those who point to Camden yards as a success, you should read the study done by Johns Hopkins University.

On economics (Team wins, public loses):
"the state and its subdivisions lose approximately $9M per year on Camden Yards."
"the Orioles' revenue rose by approximately $25.5M as a result of the move to Camden Yards."

On redevelopment (it wasnt a result of the baseball stadium):
In the early 1970s, the Inner Harbor was a badly blighted section of the city made up largely of abandoned warehouses which were relics of an earlier era when shipping had docked there. Beginning in the late 1970s the Inner Harbor was the site of massive redevelopment; it now houses a substantial number of high-class hotels and restaurants, upscale retail shopping,legal and financial offices, and such tourist attractions as the National Aquarium, the Maryland Science Center, and Harborplace."

So you can stop with the nonsense about "Urban Success".
No stadium anywhere has done anything economically positive for anyone other than the team's owners.

Also of interest in the report:
"Counterfactual: suppose that the Orioles had constructed and owned the Camden Yards stadium and had received no subsidy from the State of Maryland.
Suppose, in other words, that they were like an ordinary business.
Under this counterfactual, we calculate the internal rate of return to the move to Camden Yards, as it would have appeared to the Orioles had they been a typical business.
The real internal rate of return on Camden Yards is equal to the net revenue increase ($25.5M) less annual economic depreciation ($10M) divided by the cost of the stadium ($200M). The real internal rate of return is estimated to be 7.75%."

So once again, the team CAN afford to pay it's own way and stay out of our pockets.

But GREED is a powerful thing - why settle for 7.75% when you can shake down the city to get 100%

[Thomas]

First - we are in NO danger of losing the Rays. St. Pete has an ironclad lease with them through 2027. The are NOT leaving.

Next, this stadium plan is horrible and will be soundly defeated.

Also -- for those who point to Camden yards as a success, you should read the study done by Johns Hopkins University.

On economics (Team wins, public loses):
"the state and its subdivisions lose approximately $9M per year on Camden Yards."
"the Orioles' revenue rose by approximately $25.5M as a result of the move to Camden Yards."

On redevelopment (it wasnt a result of the baseball stadium):
"In the early 1970s, the Inner Harbor was a badly blighted section of the city made up largely of abandoned warehouses which were relics of an earlier era when shipping had docked there. Beginning in the late 1970s the Inner Harbor was the site of massive redevelopment; it now houses a substantial number of high-class hotels and restaurants, upscale retail shopping,legal and financial offices, and such tourist attractions as the National Aquarium, the Maryland Science Center, and Harborplace."

So you can stop with the nonsense about "Urban Success".
No stadium anywhere has done anything economically positive for anyone other than the team's owners.

[Thomas]

Also of interest in the report:
"Counterfactual: suppose that the Orioles had constructed and owned the Camden Yards stadium and had received no subsidy from the State of Maryland.
Suppose, in other words, that they were like an ordinary business.
Under this counterfactual, we calculate the internal rate of return to the move to Camden Yards, as it would have appeared to the Orioles had they been a typical business.
The real internal rate of return on Camden Yards is equal to the net revenue increase ($25.5M) less annual economic depreciation ($10M) divided by the cost of the stadium ($200M). The real internal rate of return is estimated to be 7.75%."

So once again, the team CAN afford to pay it's own way and stay out of our pockets.

But GREED is a powerful thing - why settle for 7.75% when you can shake down the city to get 100%

[JHU Study]

Thomas, would you like to point out that I was written in 1996?

[Thomas]

Excellent point - this report has been around for a DECADE, yet people still point to Camden Yards as the role model for urban stadiums.

This pig of a stadium deal in StPete is not going to fly.

[Mark]

On ESPN......Here's some positive spinning by other MLB insights: Keep the faith there is light at the end of the tunnel....Looks like others think the RAYS are going about things in the right way!!!! Here's the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3161000

The Tampa Bay Rays spent their first 10 seasons as the AL East's designated punching bag. But it's time to stop laughing. Any minute now (seriously), this team is going to be no fun to play. So how do the Rays ignore the skyrocketing payrolls to their north and convince themselves they can actually outduel those Yankee/Red Sox behemoths some day?

"We try to insulate ourselves from those things," GM Andrew Friedman said. "If we allow it to seep too far into our thought process, we're more apt to make large mistakes. Whatever moves we feel we should make to try to improve … we should do it independent of that. If we start to feel that outside pressure because of what other teams are doing, it only gets us away from our own perspective. And we can't think that way."

Maybe nobody on the outside takes this team seriously. But within the sport, the Rays are already a source of rapidly loudening buzzing. Offensively, they just outhomered the Red Sox, outscored the Blue Jays and outstole all but two teams in the league. Meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, their stockpile of young pitching is up there with anyone's.

So this is a team with a chance to win 90 games by 2009. Whether it can ever spend $90 million to keep that group intact is another story. But for now, the Rays are locked inside that tunnel vision. They're all about development and more development.

"Look, we all have different market challenges," Friedman said. "We just have to identify what they are, operate within the constraints we have and go from there."

[Inner Harbor]

Oriole Park at Camden Yards was built in an area that was already well into it's revitalization. It didn't revitalize the area. But it didn't hurt either. The Inner Harbor continues to grow and prosper. OP at CY is in the perfect place. Just like the new Rays stadium would be. The whole deal hinges on the redevelopment of the Trop site. Without that, there is no deal. The Trop site is dead weight most of the year. The new Rays stadium probably won't make downtown any better, but it won't make it worse either. The Trop site can't get any worse than it is now.

[bax in the saddle]

Inner Harbor (Sternstein shill) has revealed one of the major talking points we will hear from proponents of this scam. Greedy developers who will purchase the publicly-owned Trop acreage for far less than market value, attorneys who will get incredibly fat fees, construction firms, bond issuers and others involved in financing this sham. Check contributors to Rick Baker and other councilpeople already "sold" on this boondoggle. Follow the money!!!!

[Terry]

Al Lang sits empty except during spring training. Tropicana is used for a few events, but mostly sits empty except during the baseball season. Redevelop the Tropicana site and have year round contribution for the the city and county (taxes, etc.), while getting more contribution from the Al Lang site. I think it can be a rather nice benefit for the city and county. Whether the Rays will leave is not the real question. Is their plan good for us? Answer that and our decisions become a little clearer.

[Bax's Father]

I'm sorry everyone. My son Baxwell likes to play wiffleball with his imaginary friend in the Trop parking lot. I've told him he needs to get some real friends and start playing baseball, but he just won't listen.

[Bax's Father]

Wifey, you already said our son gets bad grades, now you are calling him intelligent? That's why our son doesn't make any sense. You keep sending him mixed signals. He doesn't know what to think. Or how to think for that matter.

[Thomas]

TERRY,

"Redevelop the Tropicana site and have year round contribution for the the city and county (taxes, etc.), while getting more contribution from the Al Lang site. I think it can be a rather nice benefit for the city and county"

You're not reading the propsal's fine print. All of the "year round contribution" from the redeveloped Trop site is committed to pay for the construction of the new stadium.
The taxes collected at the redeveloped Trop site are earmarked to pay for the new stadium construction -- The devil is in the details.

Then, the taxes collected at the new stadium are captured in a Cap X account to pay for operations/maintenance at the facility.

Because the City/County owns both parcels, no property taxes are collected.

The net effect for the city is ZERO. We get NOTHING. The Rays get a brand new stadium - we get ZILTCH.

I'd be all for a plan if the Rays pay for the new stadium at Lang, and the city gets to keep the redevelopment profits from our land at the Trop -- BUT that is NOT what this plan does.

[No Thomas]

You are not reading the fine print. It isn't ALL. It might be alot of, but not all. One of the first articles posted discussed in detail what money for redeveloping the Trop could not be touched for construction of the new stadium.

[Terry]

Thomas-

I would like someone to project all of this out for the remaining term of the Tropicana lease. The way I understand it, it may have the makings of a win-win situation. I am anxious to see the specifics of the Trop sight redevelopment.

[Jason]

I am concerned, Every piece I read about the new stadium has like 10 comments after the end of it slamming the Rays and the new stadium. People whine about not being able to pay the mortgage, and how St. Pete has no money and on and on. I get worried, because these negative people that take an extra 5 minutes to complain on a newspaper website are the same people who will vote and shoot this thing down. I have noticed most younger sports lovers seem less apt to going to the voting booth to get this thing done.
If this doesn't go through, we can kiss our Rays goodbye. We have ALL dreamed of a waterfront stadium, MLB will never let us host an ALL STAR game in the current facility. Everyone that is worried about the city with no money can almost be guaranteed that MLB will give us the ALL Star game within 2 or 3 years of that park opening. I am an out-of-towner that is already making vacation plans for the grand opening of the new park. I STRONGLY URGE all of you that are citizens and CAN vote for this next year, that they get out there and do it, or I am getting the idea that this will fail...
I also strongly urge those that cannnot pay the mortgage on the house and car payments to NOT GET IN OVER YOUR HEAD AND BUY A HOUSE AND CAR YOU CAN TRULY AFFORD AND THEN NOT HAVE THE AUDACITY TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. Most peoples dire fanancial situation is a "you" problem and should not be used in any other context of building new facilities. I'll get off my soapbox...now

[bax to the basics]

BFD about an All-Star team. We have a Double AA team here. The fact is there's a lot of big bucks to be made off the backs of taxpers and Baker is leading the parade. Only an imbecile would vote for the stadium proposal!!!

[rayray]

There have been many, many, many new stadiums built since the Trop opening with varoius financing plans, so are all those communities imbecile's for building, NOT!

As Jason said, I STRONGLY URGE to vote YES YES YES, & watch all the jealous whiners cry.

Jason go ahead and make your plans to come down an attend and don't let the negative posters discourage you b/c they're probably not from this area or true RAYS fans anyway, and they will type anything to grind their own ax for personal satisfaction.

This downtown bayfront stadium proposal will get built b/c it hinges on the redevelopment of the site, which w/make it happen. It's a win-win regardless of what some say, they're just jealous haters. Thanks for your interest & support in the Rays / St. Pete Bay Area, and have a very Merry X-mas!!!!

[Thomas]

JASON - Are you on crack. Let's look at your post:

"If this doesn't go through, we can kiss our Rays goodbye"
INCORRECT - The lease at the Trop is iron clad, they are NOT going anywhere.

"sports lovers seem less apt to going to the voting booth to get this thing done."
MYTH - Being a fan does NOT mean you are the village idiot who will vote for whatever absurd proposal the team floats. You can support the team and vote NO on this horrific funding scheme.

"I am an out-of-towner that is already making vacation plans for the grand opening of the new park."
CANCEL THEM - this is not going to pass. We're a bit smarter than the Rays give us credit for.

"I am getting the idea that this will fail..."
CORRECT - at least you got one thing right.

** CORRECTION ** in an earlier post I did incorrectly state that "all" revenues from the redevelopment of the Trop go to the new stadium. That should be restated as "the most significant".

[Thomas]

TERRY -

In my opinion, the correct way to do this would be for the city to "gift" the Al Lang land to the Rays.

The Rays can then pay to build their own stadium.

The city will redevelop the Trop site and keep the revenue - as it is ours.

That would be a win-win.

The city gets to put the Trop back on the tax rolls and the Rays get the land to build a new waterfront stadium.

This current proposal will be defeated, because it makes NO sense for anyone but the Rays owners.

Tropicana Field, is owned by Pinellas County (and leased back to the city), so any money from developing that site should go to the county, not the Rays. Al Lang Field is owned by the city of St. Petersburg, the Rays are effectively asking to develop two publicly owned parcels and keep the proceeds for themselves... NO. It's just that simple. NO.

[Trop]

Thomas, that deal can be as iron clad as it wants. MLB isn't going to let the Rays play at the Trop until 2027 or whenever the deal is up. It will not happen. If Rays proposals for a new stadium are in line with what other teams have done and they keep getting shot down, there will be no MLB in this area. The city will just end up fighting MLB in court.

[oh my aching bax]

1) The Rays cannot escape from the Trop contract without complicity from and payoffs to public officials.

2) New stadiums in other cities were not eight blocks from the old facilities, therefore the upgrading the city argument is bogus.

3) If the Rays had an ounce of sincerity, they would assume the risk of the entire cost and be repaid from the taxes of the grandiose redevelopment that they foresee.

[Hey Thomas]

Thomas, did you see Andrew Zimbalist's comments on the Rays proposal? He's the guy who co-wrote the Brookings Institute paper on the effect of Sports stadiums on local economies. Here it is...

... Zimbalist, the Brookings author and an economist at Smith College in Massachusetts, remains insistent that there is no direct economic development benefit to a municipality surrounding big-league sports. But he likes what he sees in the Rays' proposal.

"This is a unique plan, because other than the sales tax exemption, they're not seeking public funding," Zimbalist said. "They're taking 85 acres of land that is on the frontier of St. Pete development and they're making it available for commercial, retail and residential development. It's a pro-active development plan," he said...

Maybe the Rays plan isn't as horrible as you think it is.

[Thomas]

Actually, I did see that. Doesn't sound like he's familiar with the entire plan.

The Rays are not asking for direct public funding. They're asking for the bulk of the procedes from redeveloping public land. It's actually a very shrewd move on their part. I must applaud them for their clever attempt at masking the public investment.

Perhaps Dennis said it better:

"Any time you're thinking about using public resources, those resources could be used in a variety of ways," said Dennis Coates, an economist with the University of Maryland-Baltimore County "And a stadium probably isn't the best way."

What would the plan look like if we did NOT earmark the redevelopment dollars for the Rays - but rather - used them for the best interest of our city instead of the home town 9.

[Hey Thomas]

Thomas, I'm sure Mr. Zimbalist knows just as much about the Rays proposal as you do. He's obviously very interested in the subject. He's considered an expert on the subject. I'm sure he's not one to make a statement without knowing the details.

[Hey Thomas]

Also, it sounds like Dennis Coates is talking about the subject in general. He isn't specifically addressing the Rays proposal. His quote doesn't take into account that the Trop site's resources couldn't be used in a variety of ways if the Rays don't move. If the Rays DO move, there will at least be SOME resources from the Trop site that will not be used on construction of the new stadium, and thus could be used in a variety of other ways.

[Thomas' Sheep]

I'm Pete.

[Tazzerboy]

Here's some advice for the Rays, Sternberg, and who ever wants this new stadium. Just win some damn ballgames and maybe a World Series! Then, after that, you'll have all the private, government, and fan support that you will ever need. But, until then, shut the hell up because you don't deserve it.

[Tazzerboy]

Here's some advice for the Rays, Sternberg, and who ever wants this new stadium. Just win some damn ballgames and maybe a World Series! Then, after that, you'll have all the private, government, and fan support that you will ever need. But, until then, shut the hell up because you don't deserve it.