Rays stadium: Let the debate begin

Chief security officer Ron Whitaker, center, explains to people waiting to sign up for tonight's hearing the procedure for handling the expected overflow crowd. [Lara Cerri | Times]

ST. PETERSBURG - I'm here in City Hall, more than 3½ hours before the public hearing on the Tampa Bay Rays' stadium and redevelopment proposal begins at 6:30 p.m., and already people are lining up for their turn to speak.

It kind of has the atmosphere of a big-time college basketball game –- without the pep bands or cheerleaders. Proponents of the Rays' plan, mainly from the group Fans For Waterfront Stadium, are expected to be wearing white. Opponents, those associated with the group Preserve Our Wallets and Waterfront, will be dressed in red.

There's not a lot at stake tonight. Though perhaps 200 residents and business owners are expected to sound off on the Rays' proposal, the eight-member City Council will not make any decisions. Instead, they'll simply listen, and then (eventually) go home.

Here's a link to the story in today's newspaper advancing the meeting. Here's a good primer on the Rays' plan if you're new to all of this.

I'll check in later this afternoon with an update and then be blogging live starting at 6:30 p.m. I plan to answer some questions as well if you leave them in the comments field.

-- Aaron Sharockman, Times Staff Writer

4 p.m. update -- About 60 people have signed up to speak so far, and people are continuing to trickle into City Hall. The council, meanwhile, already is in session. The chamber virtually is empty right now; the discussion is focused on next year's city budget.

6:25 p.m. update -- It's game time. The City Council chamber is full as is one of the first two overflow rooms in City Hall. It looks like people are going to be headed to a nearby church if they want to watch the debate. As of now, about 80 people have signed up to speak. Many more want to....but just don't want to wait possibly four or five hours for their turn.

A group of about 100 people, largely union workers, are standing outside City Hall in white (Rays) shirts. The Rays provided the shirts, but people we talked to said they came on their own."We're the silent majority," said Steven Maslo, a 37-year-old plumber from St. Petersburg. The Rays' plan, he said, is "nothing but money for downtown St. Petersburg."

6:40 p.m. update -- The first two speakers sum up the kind of night we're expecting: "When the Rays decided to move to Port Charlotte, they turned their back on the city of St. Petersburg," said Caesar Civitella, who is against the Rays' proposal.

And Kenny Locke, founder of Fans For Waterfront Stadium: "From a baseball perspective it absolutely makes sense," Locke said. "This ownership group has delivered on every promise on its made since its been here."

As we said earlier, every seat in the council chamber is full --- except one. Mayor Rick Baker, who has been absent from most of the stadium debate, is also absent from tonight's public hearing. He said earlier he has a previous engagement at Eckerd College.

6:55 p.m. update -- One of the things I want to try to do tonight is correct some of the misconceptions coming out tonight. St. Pete resident Rebecca Falkenberry just now said that the tax money used to build the new stadium -- the money coming from the redevelopment of Tropicana Field -- could be better used instead in the city's general fund. It may be better used there, but the money cannot be used there. Tropicana Field is in the city's downtown tax increment financing district. Without getting too technical, the tax money generated by the Tropicana redevelopment cannot be used on police officers or firefighters. It has to be used on capital projects in downtown, like roads, or the Mahaffey Theater, or the Pier.

For those keeping score, so far we've seen 12 speakers -- seven againist, and five for.

7:20 p.m. update -- Sorry for the lag. Computer problems (of course). There's been much debate tonight, on both sides, if the Rays' proposal constitutes using or raising local taxes. The short answer is no (to raising taxes) and yes (to using public money).

7:45 p.m. update --  Rays president Matt Silverman and senior vice president for development Michael Kalt just had their turn at the microphone. They were speakers no. 27 and 28. "We are early in the process," Kalt said. "We don't have all the answers. We readily admit that. But we do think this is a project that has tremendous potential for the city of St. Petersburg."

7:55 p.m. update -- A speaker just brought up the outstanding debt on Tropicana Field. It's worth a quick refresher. Including interest, there remains about $100-million in debt on Tropicana Field. Part of the debt is actually paid off by a state subsidy that matures in 2025. The local debt expires in 2016. By 2012, when the Rays want to open their new stadium, the local debt left outstanding is approximately $30 million.

8 p.m. update -- I'm going to spend the next 30 minutes or so working on the $.50 edition ($.25 if you live in Hillsborough). I'll be back in a bit.

8:20 p.m. update -- 1 Beach Drive. It's an addres we've heard a lot here tonight. And almost universally tied to people against the Rays' proposal. The address is Bayfront Tower, which sits across Central Avenue from Al Lang Field. We probably won't be able to see all the speakers' cards until Friday, but it will be interesting to see where they all lived, and how it impacts their view of the stadium proposal.

10 p.m. update -- Sorry guys. Got tied up in the newspaper story. It's 10 p.m. and the public hearing just wrapped up. 109 speakers in all. The final count --- about 70-or-so against, about 30-or-so for.

10:05 p.m. update -- So what do we take away from tonight? I think we realized this is going to be a fight to November if it gets there. Both sides are well organized and their talking points are poignant. I also think we noticed a little bit of blue collar, white collar divide tonight. The union support of the Rays' plan will no doubt be key if the team hopes to get their plans approved in November. The counterbalance is, of course, downtown homeowners, who appear most motivated against what the Rays are selling.

LAST UPDATE -- Thanks for following along everyone. If we learned nothing else tonight, it's that I need a new computer and to learn how to type faster. I haven't had a chance to sort through the comments for awhile, but if there's any questions there I can answer, I'll get at it first thing Friday. Thanks, Aaron

Comments

[Kenwood Ken]

Ohh yeah, Council will listen I'm certain. Only because they have to. If they had been listening all along, they would have made Al Lang a park wayyyy back when us St Pete folks had asked them time and time and time and time again. Deaf ears is what they'll listen with. This turkey is getting voted down by the citizens faster than bad milk gets chucked in the trash. Let the war begin.

[Monday]

I love the new lightning rod they are planning on building!

[David]

If the Rays want a stadium so bad, why don't they build it without public funds.

If it is gonna bring in so much extra revenue, then why don't they find investors.

After the crap they put on the field, they got a lot of nerve asking for a new park!!

[Ken]

What's even more ironic, or moronic I should say, is that look just behind the proposed new stadium in the drawing. That tall skinny building is Signature Place. I recall reading about how and why the bldg was designed that way. It was so it casts as small a shadow as possible on the neighboring buildings. That's brilliant and considerate. Now look at that 320ft tall thing sticking out of the ground. Who gets to live in its shadow? Who gets to watch the birds crap all over it? Real nice. Now, want to talk about the noise? The people at Bayfront had the 2 man band at Francesco's essentially quieted down, and they're going to put up with a MLB stadium outside their windows? hahhahhaaaa! Sternberg, pack up your freak show, you douchebag.

[John]

I didn't ask for a park. I'm intrigued by the new stadium proposal but feel a lot of questions are as yet unanswered - parking, transportation,traffic management, and the "feast or famine" effect baseball could cause downtown for example.

What I would like to see is baseball have a smaller footprint in our city. Right now that parking lot around the stadium is generating no revenue for the city. If they sold it, even if no development took place (which wouldn't happen), at least St. Pete would be collecting property taxes on it. Right now that property is tax free.

In these times, that extra revnue sure wouldn't hurt. So my mind is open.

[TJ]

Perhaps when the Rays actually start WINNING, I'd be more in tune to the idea. There is nothing wrong with the Trop..it is indoors to protect from those afternoon storms and is a good size..and it hides all the empty seats from the outside!

[michael]

i will fight against the new stadium proposal to my last breath...the first stadium was not needed/wanted by most of the people who live/work here..st pete has social/educational/job/housing issues that have needed addressed and been passed by or for the most part ignored for years...the waterfront needs to remain open public space

[M]

WIN, AND THEY WILL COME...

[sk]

I hope it gets voted down because St. Pete does not deserve and cannot support a MLB team. They should buy out the lease from the city of St. Pete and build a downtown stadium in Tampa. How can a bunch of retirees and thugs support the team in St. Pete?

[Court]

The only funds they Rays are asking for is the money they are required to pay for the Trop anyway. Now for the same money we are already paying, we get a new stadium and a redeveloped Trop site and tons of extra tax revenue. The new stadium takes zero dollars from the city, it only adds money. The new owners have backed up everything they have promised, they deserve a chance.

[A. Currier]

The Tropicana is not that old!!! We just had to have it if we wanted a major league team because there was not or ever would be enough room at Al Lang. Wasn't that about 20 years ago? I seem to remember an assessment added to my tax bill for that stadium and my bill has never gone down since!!!

[Jimbo]

Thugs and retirees? Are you sure you're talking about St. Pete and not Tampa? Tampa is a wasteland and I wouldn't ask my worst rival to step foot there. The only reason people think Tampa's so great is because they have 2 sucky teams to begin with. Let us have our glory and get off your high-horse...Tampa is a joke.

[Sean]

Seems like everybody that is reading a Devil Rays blog does not know the facts. Do you know who gets all star games and super bowls?? New stadiums. Do you know how much money that brings in? Obviously not.

Alsdo as for the losing...Vince Namoli ran this team into the ground. Sternberg and Co. have done nothing but good things...this team is turning it around quickly. They would not ask for a new stadium if they were not trying to build a winner.

[Joe K.]

No stadium on the waterfront! This is just another give-away to the wealthy owners of professional sports teams. Hold them to their contract and make them pay for the use of Tropicana Field. When their contract has ended, then let them stay or go-away. The issue should not be whether the Rays have a winning season. It should be about whether the City of St. Petersburg gives away one of its greatest public assets -- its waterfront.

[Joe]

I would like to echo the comments of Sean. It seems many of the posters are not informed about the state of the Rays as a franchise, the economic realities of St. Petersburg, or the funding proposal created by the team. A newer more modern stadium, that is outdoor in nature, would be a welcome addition to the St. Petersburg skyline, and accentuate an already growing and vibrant area. I don't live in St. Petersburg I live in Tampa, however, I truly to love visiting the downtown area. In contrast to Tampa's vacant black-hole of a downtown, people actually live, work and entertain themselves in St. Petersburg's downtown. A baseball stadium where people already like to go is a great idea and will only do wonders for the city.

[Richard]

Seems to me there's been a baseball stadium on that lot for a few years now (Al Lang . . . er, Progress Energy Stadium) so what waterfront are we giving up? The waterfront visible from the brand new park that just opened by the air port? No. The waterfront from Old NE to the Pier? No.

My son lives in Denver and it is amazing what happened when their stadium moved downtown. What was a slum became one of the "gotta be there" places to live. Same thing could happen here. Tropicanna was a lousy decision, that huge parking lot and no real business around it (except Fergs) prevented any real economic benefits.

Put the stadium downtown, scatter the lots, make people walk a couple blocks from the lots to the new stadium past restauants and bars - and watch the "Denver Plan" work here.

[JTB]

michael, do you really think that there is a lack of open public space on the waterfront? downtown's waterfront is almost all parks that are under-used about 350 days a year. there are plenty of potential reasons to be against the stadium, but the supposed need for more waterfront parks is not one of them.

[Ken]

What wonders will this new stadium do? We already have a ton of indoor and outdoor events going on, pretty much all year long downtown. Jamming all those cars and people downtown, quite often, will impact the other events with traffic, congestion, noise, light, and hassle. All of which will detract from our already thriving downtown and events. Yes, I live here, and yes I work here, so I'm downtown all the time. Its not the right spot. This is such a cram job on that tiny Al Lang site its laughable. If they want a new stadium, do like the Bucs did. Build a new one next door to the current one, then do whatever you like with the old one. Same site, same parking potential, and WOW, jobs, jobs, jobs and economic vitality. Ohh, wait, can you make the same promise on the same site, or is that promise only valid if its more than 16 blocks away. Damm I'm smart. I should be on City Council.

[JTB]

ken, the bucs stadium has done nothing positive for its neighborhood because it is surrounded with massive parking lots. it's impossible to walk to anything from it. dale mabry is a dump. same with the trop. stadiums like the trop and RJS are anti-urban and hurt their cities. in terms of economic benefits and "vitality", there is a huge difference between a walkable downtown or neighborhood ballpark with scattered parking and a suburban-style stadium with huge parking lots. the former is good for the area, the second is harmful.

[JTB]

however, ken, if the stadium were to be built at the eastern edge of the current trop parking lot and were to be connected to downtown in a walkable fashion, not guarded by parking oceans, if it were truly possible and even desirable to walk from downtown to the park and from the park downtown, then i'd support that location. but just doing "what the bucs did" and basically building a newer version of the anti-urban Trop would be a disaster.

[heyou]

the massive yarbles one has that can even suggest the tax payers float another monument to millionaires. i laugh till it hurts just thinking about how you sportclowns find ways to justify yet another money grab for team owners. when was the last time the tax payers built the average business owner a new building for their business? oh really? never? imagine that. let the business owners build their own buildings and charge you fans a week's pay so your family can watch millionaires lose game after game while drinking $8 beers and eating $5 hot dogs. you pro-stadium morons crack me up every time you open your mouth about it and the swill dribbles out. my sides hurt, please stop.

[Bob]

The fact that this stadium is even in St. Pete is a joke. St. Pete is a bunch of old people who complain about everything who are just upset this stadium has no A/C. They will never get the kind of fan base they want in St. Pete. Stop this joke and move the team to Tampa.

[Bill]

Thought it was going to be on Brighthouse channel 615?? Can anyone shed light? Thanks.

[Tuck]

I'm completely in favor of the new stadium. Have you ever looked for a flight from New York or Boston in the springtime when the Yanks or Red Sox were in town? They are filled to capacity with northerners wanting to escape the cold for a few days and see their team in the process.

Moving the team to the Al Lang site will significantly increase business downtown for hotels, bars, restaurants, the movies, and shops.

I've read plenty of negative sentiments regarding the new stadium proposal - but not one person has suggested an alternative use for Al Lang field. You people know that no business currently goes on there right? Should we let that beautiful land remain as an old, empty ball field? I don't think so.

[Forrest]

As a young man who grew up in St. Pete, I guess I am the exception. I am a Devil Rays fan not a Yankees, Red Sox, or Braves fan. I am a generation of recent college grads who were born and raised in this great town and now contribute to the economy. What a treat we have to live in a large city with a small town feel on both the bay and the gulf. We have great sports teams and the new ownership has shown they are making an effort to build a winner. Lets embrace change and look at what this stadium can do to a still sleep and lethargic downtown. More businesses, restaurants, shopping all mean more money for the city. As a responsible resident you must look past the initial costs (which I understand is not primarily from tax dollars if at all) and look to the future growth this project can bring our town.

[Forrest]

As a young man who grew up in St. Pete, I guess I am the exception. I am a Devil Rays fan not a Yankees, Red Sox, or Braves fan. I am a generation of recent college grads who were born and raised in this great town and now contribute to the economy. What a treat we have to live in a large city with a small town feel on both the bay and the gulf. We have great sports teams and the new ownership has shown they are making an effort to build a winner. Lets embrace change and look at what this stadium can do to a still sleep and lethargic downtown. More businesses, restaurants, shopping all mean more money for the city. As a responsible resident you must look past the initial costs (which I understand is not primarily from tax dollars if at all) and look to the future growth this project can bring our town.

[stpete native]

First of all.. I am NOT OLD.. St Pete does have some younger people in it. Second I was born & raised right here in the city of St Pete. I object and will vote NO to a new stadium if we are ever given a chance (when hell freezes over). OH... and the owners give them a chance?? promises? OH pulleese.. since when do people ever tell the truth?
Tropicana Field is not that OLD.. there is NO need to put in a new stadium. Please do not tell me it won't cost MY tax paying dollars anything, that I do NOT believe. Personally I think ALL professional sports should be PRIVATE ENTERPRISE and pay taxes on the revenue .. etc etc..
IF they need a new stadium then they should be looking at the Gandy area where they can put it on the water if they so desire.. and it would be closer for the fans that are in Tampa and just don't like to drive in our downtown (oh but gee we can go drive in their downtown to go to a lighning game or go to Channelside).
The thing other thing of it is, our downtown streets can not go any wider to support the increase in traffic without having to take out the sidewalks.
What is very upsetting too is the fact they are changing our beautiful downtown into this mega cement jungle. It is really sad that Al Lang wont be having spring training anymore. It should be a historical landmark. There is so much history & stories behind that stadium.
I find it very funny that our dear Mayor wont be around for tonights circus, what a joke. We need to kick his butt out of office and find someone who will stand up and be here for the the taxpayers.
I vote NO for a new stadium!!

[Ben]

I can understand the skepticism with the current plan considering all of the unanswered questions. I am confident that the Sternberg team - who has done everything that they said they would up to this point - will answer all questions thoroughly and honestly.

I don't understand why concerned residents are stating that there is a loss of waterfront land in the deal. Right now, we have a spring-training stadium that is underutilized (and will be used even less when the Rays move to Port Charlotte next year) but with historical significance - to baseball and to this great city. Therefore, the public does not have access to that site currently except on spring-training gamedays. The stadium proposal would replace the existing stadium with a more functional facility with higher utilization. Although, I would like to sure that bike/pedestrian access is still provided on Bayshore Drive between Demen's Landing and the new Whitted Playground.

The current Trop site has admittedly not lived up to expectations, so we should proceed with caution on this new plan. But the size of the existing surface lot in that location is probably the worst use of land in a downtown area - and who wouldn't want to replace asphalt with a livable park. Let's unpave paradise and get rid of a parking lot!

The Rays management have stepped up to the plate also regarding funding - they are not asking for state money, no municipal money, and just announced that they will put the $150 million up front instead of $10 million per year.

Parking will be an issue that they will be dealing with - but that is a challenge and not a dealbreaker.

Ask good questions to our leaders and the Rays, but don't be so shortsighted and vitriolic in your attacks on this important project.

[Rodger]

Make the outfield bigger at Al Lang and add about 10,000 seats. problem solved. Remember the phrase throw Ray in the bay? lol lol. IT STILL FITS.

[Leo]

I love it! Downtown St. Pete is already becoming a mecca for new businesses, arts and entertainment.
Add the Ray's stadium, and downtown grows summer and winter.
This is a win, win, win.
Don't let the whiners influence anyone who really cares about this gem of a city and its inevitable growth.

[Josh]

SpNative...

Concrete jungle?! As an architect, I'm absolutely befuddled how you can think this of St. Pete. From basically every avenue you can see the bay. Signature Place is probably the best designed building in the bay area. St. Pete is a concrete jungle when you look at the Trop area. Last time I checked, the plan was to add more green space and fix that. The new stadium is absolutely great for St. Pete.

Forrest...

I'm from that same generation having grown up in Pinellas County I feel the exact same way you do. I don't understand why people in St. Pete judge this proposal as something that is going to "take their money". Why would they lie? That is so pessimistic. They are putting a ton of effort to prove that they are serious and honest, yet, you do not believe them? Why? The whole ideal of "people in power are corrupt" is not universal. If the all-star game is brought here with the stadium that is nothing but revenue. There is so much potential for St. Pete with this project. St. Pete residents, loosen up, learn the facts, listen, and stop being so arrogantly negative. Please bring intelligent debate to this board, not cap-locked shouting.

[Paul]

It is on 615 brighthouse.... you need a set top box to get that station. Its great, City Council is getting their butts handed to them. I hope they're sweating and see how much we can't stand them and their catering to their resumes via this turkey plan. VOTE NO!

[Rodger]

The Rays are already in downtown. relocating them 14 blocks isnt going to make the city grow. I havent heard a good arguement yet.

[voter]

Watching the hearing and it is very apparent that the opposition has researched and thought through the ramifications of a waterfront scheme.

The pro side started off by saying it would bring dollars to schools and Juvenile Welfare Board - completely wrong!!! Only the School Board funds schools and the Juvenile Welfare Board is their own taxing authority under Florida statute. Sorry Kenny the Shark - you look foolish.

Someone got up and said the funds wouldn't go into general funds they are TIF funds - the important thing is they are OUR funds - even within TIF they go to the city coffers for use in the designated area and are already designated to repairs on the Pier and needed infrastructure. Damn nice of the Rays to allow us to use our money on their stadium. FYI - police and fire are paid by ad velorum taxes.

There are a bunch of out of work construction workers saying ( one in particular with vulgar language) that the 10,000 jobs are important. There is no way the project will create that many jobs - how desperate are you to hike the numbers that way. And is it realistic to say we should go forward because the building project would create TEMPORARY jobs ? I feel for these guys - but get real - build a new stadium just so these guys can get a temporary job. Why don't they apply to work for the Rays at the Trop? Bet Stu wouldn't give them a job.

Over all the vast majority of speakers are saying NO to this project. If it's on a referendum the citizens will say NO again.

Stu, Matt and Kalt - take Brian Ballard and hit the road. We never did like carpetbaggers in this town.

[Josie]

I have no faith in the city council or our mayor to make decisions which favor regular citizens or small businesses. And a result of this lack of faith, I would prefer to wait until we have a city government that cares about its citizens a little more than the corporate oriented one we have now. While the last election might have changed the makeup slightly, hiding the information about stadium negotiations shows a city hall culture that is not for the people.

[Don Mott]

The arguments about bringing growth and redevelopment are unproven. This was promised when the Trop was built, where is it? I have read many articles and statistics showing that a sports stadium does very little for the people it impacts, i.e. local residents. And for all of those who think the Rays promises of no costs to the citizens, you need to get your head out of the sand. First of all where is the other 300 million coming from? Redevelopment of the Trop property which is owned not by the Rays but the taxpayers. Not to mention the books are cooked to propose a grand revitalization of that property making tons of money. Show us the proof that this deal will make money, alas you can't. So the taxpayers are at great risk no matter how it is sugar-coated, but boy those pictures sure do look pretty. Now how about filling in the bay to re-route a road? Ain't gonna happen. The city council is wasting all of their time and resources on an expensive project that will probably not provide income and is doomed to be defeated at the polls while at the same time crying about a loss of funds from the tax amendment. Quite frankly the whole thing has become a joke! They need to concentrate on saving money not spending it debating projects that are useless and obviously doomed to fail.

[Taylor]

Show us proof that it won't make money. Alas, you can't.

[Patrick - St. Pete]

Did anyone see that the rendering of the new stadium was on the front of YAHOO! this afternoon? It was followed by an article written in the New York Times supporting the idea and the look of the stadium. Within 2 hours I had 7 people e-mail the YAHOO! article to me. These were friends from Chicago, Seattle, Kansas City and Minneapolis. All of them said they would love to come to St. Pete and see a game in an area with a stadium like that. These are friends that have not been down to visit before and had no idea how beautiful this area is.

This means the stadium, which is only a concept, has already given the city of St. Petersburg FREE positive national & international publicity. Imagine when people from New york, Boston, Chicago, Baltimore, Toronto, etc. are watching baseball games from the new stadium. This new stadium on the water will essentially be a 3 hour commercial about downtown St. Petersburg and the surrounding area.... 162 times a year.

Not to mention redeveloping the land where the old stadium currently sits is a fantastic idea. St. Pete needs to keep money within the city and entice more people to spend HERE. The St Petersburg Times article on December 5, 2007 "Hillsborough has the retail hook", shows the merchandise and sales deficit between Pinellas and Hillsborough is $1.3 billion. Why shouldn't people come here to spend their money?

[Public Servant]

with all the underpaid and overworked city employees and public servants in this city, Vote No.

I'm tired of the city crying poor when it's time to give the workers a pay increase. The fire department went three years without a contract because the city cried poor, and then stuck them with a measely 2.5% increase.
Police are currently working on a contract and the city/mayor offered 2.5%
Wow...inflation and cost of bread, milk, etc has risen over 7% yet the city council and the mayor can vote themselves a 40% raise in a private night session!

That's okay...we don't care about safety....just Rays baseball. How sad. And now you want to spend millions on a stadium that we don't need and can't fill? Sounds like a lose lose situation for all of us.

[Taylor]

For crying out loud... get with the program, folks. The money that would be used for this new facility COULD NOT, WOULD NOT, CAN NOT be spent on "underpaid, overworked" employees of the city. That's a faulty arguement to use.

What don't some of y'all get about no new money? It's really not hard to understand.

Just accept the fact that this would cause an INCREDIBLE boom to downtown. 30,000 in downtown for at least 81 nights a year... eating at restuarants... staying at hotels... paying for parking... etc etc. The economic impact would be through the roof... or sail as the case may be.

[A brighter future for St Pete!]

"Voter" at 8:29 -- you really should get your facts straight. Putting the Trop (and surrounding urban wasteland) back on the tax rolls absolutely does raise money for schools and the JWB. The most conservative estimate I've heard is upwards of $80 million dollars for schools. The proceeds of hte sale have to be used for capital improvements, but once it's sold, it's subject to property taxes just like all other commercial or residential property.

So, that land can either sit there being an eye sore, or it can become a walkable, livable urban core generating tens of millions of dollars for Pinellas schools. Not a difficult call, if you ask me.

[K]

So, taxes won't be raised but public money will be used. What happens when there is a significant shortfall to pay for public svcs, police, fire, schools, emergency svcs, etc., etc. because the $ was spent on this boondoggle? Oh yeah, our taxes will be raised! Just like that boondoogle they call the lottery was supposed to help education/schools....

[Joe Q]

yeah, that's all we need....more people in downtown to get robbed and shot up by the thugs that have already penetrated the city's "baby" known as Baywalk

[Joe Q]

yeah, that's all we need....more people in downtown to get robbed and shot up by the thugs that have already penetrated the city's "baby" known as Baywalk

[YES on the new ballpark]

K --
The only money that will be used to build the facility is from the sale of the Trop and surrounding property. If the team stays in the Trop (as the opponents seem to want), THERE IS NO NEW MONEY. No money for cops, no money for parks, NO NEW PUBLIC MONEY.

However, if they move into a new stadium financed by the sale proceeds, then the Trop property goes back on the tax rolls, and what do we get? NEW PUBLIC MONEY. So, the only way we get additional tax revenues is for the plan to go forward.

If you want to oppose the plan, you should find a rational reason to do so.

[BLAH]

All the people that are against this should go find a forum with people that care. You are uniformaed as usual and in the minority. Go complain to the insurance companies, thats the real crisis. BOO HOO

[voter]

The old used up rhetoric will not work this time. There are NOT people using the restaurants and hotel rooms as was the promise when the Trop was built and there will not be people using them if there is a stadium on the waterfront.

When major events happen on the waterfront - like the Grand Prix, waterfront concerts, art shows, jazz fests, Rib Fests, etc. the downtown merchants do not see an increase! They see a decrease because the parking spaces are filled by people going to the events. No one can get to the restaurants and shops. No one shops before or after an event anyway - when was the last time you bought a new shirt or pair of shoes before arriving at a concert?
People attending outdoor events drink and eat at the events - and no one is going to frequent the downtown bars after drinking at a 3 hour baseball game - if they are, we don't want them driving on our streets. The merchants do not get an economic bang from having the waterfront jammed up!

[Just curious]

Voter --
So why are all the downtown business owners supporting the proposal?

[JTB]

"voter" - nobody will go to restaurants before or after a game at the new stadium? what? go visit wrigley field, fenway park, or any other urban park in the country. a park that allows people to walk through downtown before and after games absolutely means more money flowing downtown. this is the problem with the trop...people drive in and drive out, so of course it hasn't had any economic benefits around it.

you say "The merchants do not get an economic bang from having the waterfront jammed up". Not sure what you mean, as if I had a bar or restaurant downtown, I sure wouldn't mind 20,000 people walking past the front door 81 times a year...

[VOTING NO]

ALL of the business owners are not - and neither is the Downtown Neighborhood Association which represents the residents between 5th Ave. N and 5th Ave.S.

[john]

if you're against this because you think that new stadiums should be 100% privately-funded, that's fine. you've got a valid point.

but if you think that this is going to ruin downtown, that the waterfront should be 100% parks and that a ballpark will mar it forever, if you can't imagine watching baseball without AC and parking oceans (and yet want to save Al Lang), if you think there is some vast conspiracy between the city and the team to come down from new york to ruin our town just because they can...well...do yourself a favor and just say that you're against it because you believe that new stadiums should be 100% privately financed.

[JB]

These newc owners are from New York. They want us to pay for this new park, and dont think for one minute that we will be paying for it. This is a business deal period for them.

If they were such great guys they would pay for the whole thing.. untill then this is a shame on St. Pete.

These owners are worth well over a BILLION $$$$ You want a new Ball Park, then do it yourselves

[john]

oh no, not new yorkers! they're out ta git us!

[Ace]

i just dont understand why everyone's so upset about this.i think this is great for the city and the Rays. a game at Tropicana Field is not baseball. i don't know what it is, but its not fun or exciting. we need this park for everyone from the casual fan to the die hard Rays fanatic.

think about this: would you rather travel to the ghetto and watch our baseball team in an old moldy box? or watch a game in the sun on the water in downtown with all kinds of stuff to do before and after the game?

[D. T. soon to be dad of baseball fan]

For all of you old people who cry about a penny tax, and stupid stuff like that, it is ridiculous. You obviously do not have children. I look forward to the day when I can take my kid to a park like the one they are proposing. I mean for all the money this will generate for the city, there is no reason they (the Rays) should have to pay for everything themselves. They are never going to be the yankees, but I tell you what, we will never have the faithful fans like the yankees and red sox have. Most of the people that are opposing, are probably transplants anyways. Everybody is coming up with all this bull politics, and screaming about how we shouldn't have to pay for anything. These are people who care only about themselves, not the next generation. I want my kids to grow up loving baseball, not complaining about the 1/4 cent we saved so they couldn't go see a home run hit into the bay, or even a unique styled stadium that will draw interest from all sorts of other areas. This is for the future. This stadium will not make the rays win, because that it up to the players and management, but by supporting them, we are supporting something for generations to come. Baseball at the waterfront has been around for generations, lets let it stick around for many more generations, with our Tampa Bay Rays.

[Frank]

If the Rays look good this year, people will love this thing. Raymond James Stadium has basically been welfare for the Glazers, but no one complains about that. At least this project gives something back to the city.

The "closed-sail" design released this week is getting favorable national reviews on Yahoo. It could really be a trend-setter.

Regardless of what happens, this ownership group is quality-oriented. They care about the bottom line, of course, but unlike the Glazers, they aren't happy with "good enough."

[Progress]

Ask the people at Ferg's if they benefit from having a stadium nearby.

That place is packed before and after games because it's located near the stadium.

The same thing will happen downtown.

[Progress]

The proposal will NOT increase our taxes. Instead, it will CREATE tax revenue for the city, and I say the Rays should be entitled to at least some of the revenue they created for the city.

Current situation at Trop site and Al Lang: 1 ugly dome + giant parking lots + stadium that's unused 11 months a year and soon to be 12 months + another parking lot (next to Al Lang site) + NO TAX REVENUE.

Future Trop and Al Lang sites: retail establishments that can compete with Tampa + affordable housing + a state-of-the-art stadium + a new waterfront park (next to the new stadium) + MILLIONS IN PROPERTY TAX REVENUE.

The choice is easy.

Build the stadium, and redevelop the Trop site!

[Cliff]

As a life long resident of St. Petersburg, I can remember other endeavors that were looked upon as a failure before they even started construction.
The Skyway Bridge had it share of opponents before it finally got built and is a symbol of our area.
The Pier was held in contempt early on because if it's outragoius design, but is also a postcard of the area.
The Vinoy was a shell for years before it was transformed into a quality resort on the waterfront.
The Bayfront Center was not well recieved in the past.
And last, but not least, the original Florida Suncoast Dome was not a hit with anyone when it was first discussed by people.
What was that great phrase, "Build it and they will come......."
Have faith in this new ownership group. They have made no promises that have not been achieved,or have not addressed any group or opinion for future of either the dome property or the stadium.
My last comment is to para-phrase Matt Silverman about something he said.." The All-Star game would be in our future". I have been to two of the All-Star Celebrations, and it is a party that this city has never, ever had before. Not even the Grand Prix can touch it in money and economical impact for the entire Tampa Bay area.
If you want to discuss it more, come down to my seat in Section 138, I am one of the people who have been disguised a a blue chair for over 10 years.

[Kyle]

All, this plan has been in place for years. I went in front of council years ago about the bayfront site and what to do with it. I told council that soon the rays will hold the city hostage for a waterfront site, just like SF did. i don't like the idea, because the rays get a low interest loan, put up their money, and pay it off quickly with redelopment of the trop property. They get to use OUR money to pay for what they want and we get the rest of the bill.
In 5 years, as Mexico self-destructs in its oil export, (they are the US's third largest importer), we will be in a full bore depression. Think wise about spending money you don't and won't have.

[jim]

DON'T YA REMEMBER THE CITY GAVE THE TROP TO THE COUNTY. THEY DON'T OWN IT SO THEY WANT TO SELL IT. SORRY NO CAKE NO ICING.

[Sal]

St Pete residents think small time and thats why the city will never get the national spotlight with things like an All-Star game. St. Pete will always have that stigma as a suburb of Tampa and thats why they refer to the Rays as Tampa's team anyway.

[Ryan]

Notice how there arent anymore bad/ against the plan posts? Thats because the Geriatric Convention had to go to bed. They cant complain about everything on only 6 hours of sleep.
I believe it all comes down to how the Rays do this season. With the Refferendum coming 1 month after the season if the Rays pull off a great season +500 or a respectable 3rd behind Boston and New Tork that may sway some minds.
YES!!!!

[Peaches]

Court, if you manage your household finances the way you claim the Rays/City are to pay for a new stadium, you, and the City, may die broke.
"The only funds they Rays are asking for is the money they are required to pay for the Trop anyway." They are required to pay rent of $1 Million per year now. The money for police used to come from parking, but they give away parking so you are paying for police. Somehow, even though I might want to see a new stadium, I think $1M is too small a sum.

[Walt]

Looks like the sports bar crowd took the night off to go to City Hall... good that you were able to get some education. Aaron, your blooging from the site was a bit one-sided... I did notice you snuggling up to Kalt and Silverman outside City Hall.

The construction trades guys have a real stake in some new construction happening. They are truly hurting. But, construction could just as easily happen by building structured parking on the West end of the Trop site and re-developing the parking lots East of Booker Creek. The Dome could stay where it is, the Rays could live up to their lease commitment (20 more years), and there could still be plenty of jobs. All of this is possible, given the terms of the Rays' lease.

The difference would be that our waterfront remains protected, as it has for 100 years, and a 20-30 story behemoth, 2 blocks long, will not destroy downtown and the waterfront.

[Matt]

For all the negative nellies out there, please make sure you visit Wrigley Field, Boston, St. Louis (new stadium), San Diego (new stadium), Phoenix, ect... with stadiums in downtown urban areas and surrounding retail/restaurants/bars in walkable distance (not 14 blocks). You need to see these great baseball towns before you vote and see what a different experience it is to have the stadiums downtown.

The Bucs stadium is nice for football because it is a sport more geared to tailgating and 70k people need plenty of places to park. Baseball is more geared to not tailgating in the parking lot and having dinner or a few beers before and after the game in your favorite watering hole nearby. Like the Cubby Bear in Chicago.

Forrest has the best post on here.

By the way, the new stadium is indeed generating a lot of buzz nationwide and an allstar game would be unbelievable for the city and surrounding area. I have been screaming to build the stadium in Tampa but for some reason I can't argue with this plan and would be excited to come see a game.

[Bill]

I am in favor of the new ballpark proposal for many reasons. Having said that I will admit that I personally don't really have problem with the Trop. But I am in the minority there by far. I continually listen to naysayers talk about why they won't support the Rays and over and over I hear mention of the shabby facility known as the Trop that "should only be used for home shows". Also the national sports media in general doesn't think much of the Trop. I grew up in a sports/baseball town up north and long for our area to be considered and BE a major sports town. Unfortunately with the backward thinking/tunnel vision attitudes I have seen on many of these posts, that will never happen. Having a downtown facility like the Rays are proposing would definitely put us on the national sports baseball map, we could get an all star game in no time and for all the reasons that the team and supporters on this site have mentioned, it IS economically feasible. Are the Bucs better off because of RJS? Of course! Are the Lightning better off because of the Forum? Of course they are! RJS was built because of tax money. The Rays are not asking for tax money. The only other comment I will make at this time is that the new ownership group of the Rays have come through on EVERY promise they have made, this has already been mentioned many times here. Vince Naimoli did an incredible amount of damage in his years of ownership and Sternberg's group is working hard to overcome that. They are forward thinkers that have a vision of REAL baseball towns that have also been mentioned here. St. Pete is growing, our downtown is coming of age with night life, culture and other things that it takes to cultivate an urban atmosphere. We don't want to be the sleepy town we were 20 years ago, progress will continue and for those that are not comfortable with that concept, Brooksville is not that far away. Don't forget to get your tickets to Al Lang for spring training baseball. One more thing, the Rays are not abandoning St. Pete by moving their spring training operation - more backward thinking - we happen to be the only team in MLB that trains in the same city where it plays it's regular season games, they are simply looking to increase their FL fan base, something we really need as there are still too many fair weather fans here that show up in their Yankee and Red Sox hats!

[steve]

As a life long resident and not a retiree who just moved to town I think this project will benefit everyone and espescially will generate jobs and construction will increase and the stadium is beautiful. Wake up and read people. It will cost us no more than we pay for the trop now. Also Ken you are an idiot

[Rodger]

The Rays are the ultimate cellar dwellers. You dont put a second rate team in a first rate stadium. start writing pay for play contracts, if your play is down your pay is down, save that money and build your own stadium. that could happen here in 16 years, but only because they dont spend money on players.

[N]

From my cheap seats, this whole deal looks sour. We can't afford to staff our libraries and parks now. After the city borrows $300 to $500 million, we will be cooked - just like so many homeowners are in trouble now. The Rays proposal will bankrupt this city.

[Herb]

Whether this is a good idea or not some of us remember when the fever ran rampant to build the current stadium when we didn't even have a team. The Pinellas County residents got sacked with the bill and residents paying for it in their tax bill. Eventually we got a team, and please tell me after all of this did the cash flow work for us or against us? If I recollect correctly the revenues generated never did cover the cost of the stadium. A poor business model at best.

[stadium advocate]

The residents of the city of St. Petersburg will benefit from this project. I understand that this is difficult to understand for those who are not baseball or Ray's fans. Creating a vibrant downtown will draw more businesses to downtown St. Pete. am not talking about restaurants and bars, but businesses that want to be located closer to where people want to live, and travel to, for business.

I hope that voters will appreciate that the ownership/management group of the Rays appears to be nothing but first class. They have delivered on their promises.

[Johnny]

People, do not be stupid........
We need money for police, education, roads....NOT BASEBALL TO MAKE THE RICH RICHER.......COMMON SENSE

[Bill]

Johnny -

1. Please take the time to understand the stadium proposal by the Rays before you lash out against it. The stadium project will NOT take money away from police, education, roads. In the long run when consider the redevelopment of the Trop site, it will add to those things.

2. Your obviously not a baseball fan. If you consider it just a way for the rich to get richer your missing the entire point of following a sport and being a a passionite fan, having something to pull for as a local community like when the Bucs finally won the superbowl a few years back or the Lighting won the Stanley Cup. Guess what, those teams along with pretty much every professional sports franchise in American is owned by people with money.

Another point that is not pointed toward Johnny, so many here have said the Rays should spend on players. AGAIN, please do your homework. The Sternberg group has increased payroll this year from less than $25M to over $40M. I take my hat off to that, especially when they are supported by a pultry <10,000 fans per game at an indoor facility that everyone suddenly seems to be in love with aka the Trop.

[Bill]

This is complete shite as far as Im concerned. We have WAY too many other issues to deal with here in Pinellas before we need to go giving a 3rd rate baseball team a new home to lose in. This will congest the hell out of downtown St Pete, and we just DONT NEED IT. We got snookered into the Trop, which we still owe a ton on, and have a horrible team that nobody wants to watch (unless the Yankees or Red Sox come to town...kinda sad when our biggest draws are for people rooting for OTHER teams!)

How bout lets deal with the property tax, homeowners insurance and housing issues before we go giving MORE money to the multi-millionares to play with, huh? You wanna put a ballpark downtown? GET RID OF THAT WASTE OF SPACE ALBERT WHITED AIRPORT! Whats Albert Whited you say? ANOTHER place for those with too much money to park their little private planes so they can play on the weekends! GREAT use of land there! Give me a BREAK!!

[Bill for Rays]

Please do not confuse me with the Bill that just posted. I have 2 previous posts under "Bill" and will now be known as "Bill for Rays".

[josh]

Hey K, you think the lottery doesnt help schools o students? Why dont you talk to me or the thousands of other kids that couldnt afford college without the Brightfutures scholarships

[Sean]

I just read all 76 comments...The people who are against the stadium throw out reasons that are not even true. That shows me that they are ignorant. If you are against something be against it for correct reasons. But if you are against it because of false reasons what are you actually against?....nothing.

Every reason I read was BS. What does them being from New York have anything to do with it? 60% of the people who live in St. Petersburg are not from here. All I am saying is if you no nothing about what is being proposed, don't have an opinion or vote.

[Jimbo]

Bravo, Sean! I couldn't have said it better myself!

BUILD THE STADIUM and hedge our bets against the impending recession. We all the stimuli we can get!

[RAH]

First off the Ray's realize by probabilities 65% of the "red shirts" will have moved on one way or another by 2012 (check out SPT page1). 2nd there replacements pro Ray's down town folks will benefit from a major Beach Drive Area property value increase. 3rd When you have too much time on your hands you look for a right or wrong cause doesn't matter just something to do please. All the crap on the field is absolutely thoughtless and opponent consistent – Last year alone there was 17 major league teams mostly Yankees, Red Sox, 11 Hall of Famers, Probably 100 All Stars, all crap is just being dim-witted

This Park will be here because it suppose to be; the metamorphosis of St Petersburg will continue because the adversaries of change of modernization and a bright future will not be around so says the elemental demographic of the dynamic balance of a population - the medium age
“Median City Age 39.3 years (2000 census) Median Age, 38.1 years (The U.S. Census Bureau, 2005 est.)”

[George]

Why don't they put the money they are spending towards one of the following problems we have in our state; education, homeless people, prescription drug abuse, car thefts, housing insurance, unemployment, murder, child abuse...

[George]

Why don't they put the money they are spending towards one of the following problems we have in our state; education, homeless people, prescription drug abuse, car thefts, housing insurance, unemployment, murder, child abuse...

[Sean]

Because the money is not for that!! Did any of you nay sayers even read the article?? No! You have no idea where the money is coming from or what it is supposed to be used for...here let me copy and paste from the article...

6:55 p.m. update -- One of the things I want to try to do tonight is correct some of the misconceptions coming out tonight. St. Pete resident Rebecca Falkenberry just now said that the tax money used to build the new stadium -- the money coming from the redevelopment of Tropicana Field -- could be better used instead in the city's general fund. It may be better used there, but the money cannot be used there. Tropicana Field is in the city's downtown tax increment financing district. Without getting too technical, the tax money generated by the Tropicana redevelopment cannot be used on police officers or firefighters. It has to be used on capital projects in downtown, like roads, or the Mahaffey Theater, or the Pier.

read the last two sentences... IT CAN'T BE USED FOR THE CITY'S GENRAL FUND.

Plain and Simple...it Can't...what else do you want to do with the money? replace all the roads down there?? oh yeah they did that for the Grand Prix of St. Petersburg? Quit saying no just because you don't want change and making up BS points about why it shouldn't happen.

[Old NE Resident]

Rah - I have no problem with "progress" or a "metamorphosis" as you called it in your comment. But here's something to think about - This is really NOT a city in the same context as, for example; L.A., San Diego or even Philadelphia. The sqare footage is just not there, dude! There is not the infrastructure to support such a project and there may never be, unless we plan on filling in the ENTIRE bay instead of a small piece of it as was proposed. What part of ST. PETERSBURG, FLORIDA IS NOT A CITY, don't you all understand?! It is a small area in comparison with alot of other metropolitan areas which support larger baseball stadiums. Look at the streets/roads in those areas or even in smaller area neighborhoods like where the Cubs play..These are ALL much larger areas than what is here in St. Pete. Do you live here in St. Pete? Honestly? Do you? If you did, you'd know that no where in the surrounding area around Al Lang stadium, would 10,000 or even 3,000 cars be able to move about in any way shape or form when one of those games let out. There would be mass choas and grid lock throughout the downtown area. It just isn't a big enough area. The local resident's would be the ones who would be paying the ultimate price. Not just monetarily, but also in intangible ways as well.

[Jeff]

Beach Dr is a 2 lane road. One lane going south and one lane going north. 1st av. s. is a 4 lane road 2 lanes going north and 2 lanes going south.

How do you figure that all that traffic can move in and out of St. Pete when a game lets out. Parking? Did someone say "parking?" Are there at least 4,000 parking spaces in and around the IMMEDIATE area surrounding Al Lang Stadium? NOT!!!

Go count them - I did!

I voted yes for the dome back in the 90's! Look what we got out of that. NADA!! You jerks on this site either just moved here recently or are not even from here at all! Or you're being paid by the Devil Rays to post here.

I am 100% opposed to this plan.

[pete]

I'll bet if someone tried to pin down the mayor on this stadium issue he would tell you in so many words that this site is not the best place and design for the area.

[Bill for Rays]

Jeff - They have been the Rays now for several months, NOT the Devil Rays. Goes to show how much of a baseball fan you are. To think they those of who support the project are paid by the Rays is simple ludicrous.

Pete - Glad you are a mind reader and have been in Rick Baker's head. If he is so against it as you say, why wouldn't he weigh in with his opinion? I believe the Mayor is educating himself so he'll have all the facts before he renders his opinion. That's an example that many on this site should follow?

[Dave]

Jeff - you must be part of some powerful cabal if you "voted for the dome," as you say. There was no referendum on the dome in the 90s, nor when the decision was made in the 80s to go forward with construction. St. Petersburg City Council in 1986 voted to build the dome.

Your inability to get facts straight makes me wonder about how well anti-progess folks like you can comprehend anything at all.

[Dave]

Kenwood Ken - reaching back here - St. Pete's population is right around a quarter-million.

1) How many "St. Pete folks" asked "time and time again" to designate Al Lang a park?

2) What percentage of the city's population is that number?

3) Is it appropriate for that percentage to dictate the result?

I'm clueless as to #1, have a guess on #2, and am sure I know the answer to #3.

[Dave]

A general response to those who oppose the project based on the fact that "the Dome isn't even paid off yet."

What percentage of homeowners stay the full term of their mortgage before getting a new home?

I am, in general, for the new stadium and revitalization of the Intown West area. Many of the financial questions we all have will be addressed next month when the RFPs are opened. But this we do know: the Rays know the RFPs need to hit a certain $$$ number, and have been working closely with one developer and potential respondent for some time.

Methinks at least one RFP will have the numbers and backing to make it work. If multiple repsonses do, even better for the city in terms of choices.

[Kathleen Ford]

Despite their comments otherwise, the new Ray owners have NOT lived up to side of their bargain with the City. The Rays were supposed to pay a portion of all on site parking fees collected to the City. This money was used by the City to pay for outside stadium police/traffic control. When the Rays made parking free the Rays asked the City to let them off the hook. For the last three years, the City has had to pay about $400,000 for each year for outside traffic control caused by the Rays' not paying their fair share. Also, the Rays do not own the Air Rights on the parking lots, the City does. This is the City's asset to develop, which it could and the Rays, after deducting the cost of replacement parking (i.e. parking garage) could share equally in the proceeds. Rather than half of the proceeds the Rays owners want to grab all of it. Greedy welfare daddies!

[KathleenFordFactChecker]

More lies from Kathleen Ford. Let's set the record straight:

The Rays lease with the City requires them to pay a fee for every car that parks at Tropicana Field. Even though the Rays did not charge fans to park at Tropicana Field during the 2006 and 2007 seasons, they continued to make these payments to the City. In fact, the 2006 and 2007 payments were the same as those in 2005. And the City Council approved this arrangement. There was no reduction in the parking fees to the City. To say otherwise is just an outright lie.

But why stop there? Let's go through some of Kathleen's other greatest hits. Many of you may have read in Aaron Sharockman's piece yesterday an assertion by an opponent of the ballpark/redevelopment plan stating that they Rays "may have violated state election laws" by giving out t-shirts prior to the hearing on Thursday night. That opponent was none other than Kathleen Ford.

Well, as an attorney, Kathleen SHOULD know that election law doesn't come into play unless there is actually an election. And since there is no item yet slated for the ballot (and won't be unless the City Council votes to place it there), election law doesn't yet apply.

But the fact is that Kathleen DOES know this. She also knows that the Rays have been paying the City their parking fees. And she knows that POWW has been handing out hundreds of bumper stickers and buttons (apparently, it's OK for the opposition to arm themselves with materials, but not supporters).

But the truth isn't something Kathleen wastes a lot of time concerning herself with. She’d rather spread lies as she attempts at another run for Mayor (the first time didn’t work out so well). And she doesn't care who or what is harmed in the process.

The fact is that this ownership group HAS done everything they've promised. That doesn't mean we should automatically accept every aspect of the plan. But it does mean we should at least wait until the facts are in (and not bend the truth, Kathleen) before passing judgment.

[KathleenFordFactChecker....checker!]

KathleenFordFactChecker.......

You must be Michael Kalt (who says to many folks "Kathleen Ford is just running for mayor again".) I made the T-Shirt complaint to Aaron, NOT Kathleen, so EITHER Aaron told YOU, OR you're Aaron Sharockman. POWW! bumper stickers were paid for out of the POWW!PACC account (NO buttons were given out) and the T-shirts AND BUTTONS were given out BY MICHAEL KALT AND MATT SILVERMAN WITH THE RAYS NEW LOGO ON THEM (NO PAID FOR POLITICAL ANNOUNCEMENT ON THEM NOTED FOR THE fansforawaterfrontstadium folks).....
T-Shirts given to folks BUSSED IN from ALL CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL..and elsewhere...All Children's folks were construction workers, Carpentar's Union, people who are INDEED HURTING, PEOPLE WHOM THE RAYS MANAGEMENT IS USING FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES. I spoke to some.....some of them from Jacksonville and other places in the state, several of them NOT St. Pete voters. That's bogus.........and YOU KNOW IT.

KathleenFordFactChecker....checker!

[Check the checker's facts]

Election law regulates the activities of PACs. PACs are those entities which are organized to influence the outcome of political issues. Many PACs operate at non-election times. They are still required to operate within the regulation set forth in state election law.

POWW is a legally registered PAC and is operating within the requirements of state election law. So, yes, it is OK for them to distribute materials.

You appear to have a personal animosity toward Ford which is not conducive to productive community dialog.

[Let the Voters Decide]

What's bogus is a bunch of grumpy Beach Drive residents thinking they own the City's waterfront and trying to stop this issue from hitting the ballot. They make it seem like the Rays are stealing the waterfront, but these are excuses designed to keep the issue off the Nov 2008 ballot because they know the voters of St Pete are in favor of progress and will approve this project.

Regardless of who the Kathleen Ford Fact Checker is....the Real Kathleen Ford just lost all credibility in my book.

[Go Away Kathleen]

KathleenFordFactChecker....checker:

Another lie....I recieved a shirt at Thursday's hearing. Don' know who gave it to me, but there is NOT a Rays logo on it....new or old.

[Narly Native]

It's about economic development, positive progress that is very much needed for St. Pete to continue to transform itself into the most alluring southern city and making it a destination point that will only put $ in the coffers for generations to come.

The injection of civic pride off the chart and taken to another level.

We'd become one the best baseball cities in America.

What another great day in St. Petersburg that will be.

Go Rays!

[Ted Norbert]

Be careful what you don't do in the interest of saving money. Metropolitan Orlando is just around the corner - and guess what it does not have. A MLB and/or a NFL franchise. Orlando is a serious International alternative with a World class hub destination Airport. Beware what you wish for as you may live long enough to witness it.

[Jenny]

Having pro-sports team in your town probably *the* biggest boost a city could ever ask for in terms of raising your national profile. To many people, your town can't even be taken seriously as a real city unless it has a pro-team.