Three bids on Trop

The city has posted all the proposals here.

UPDATE (11 a.m.)  -- Kitty just asked if Tropicana Field will be demolished or sold before a potential November referendum on the Rays' stadium plan. The answer is no. The city has made it clear to developers that the sale of the land will NOT happen, unless the Rays' stadium proposal is approved by voters in November. If anyone else has questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them.

UPDATE (10:55 a.m.) -- It will be a few hours, the city says, before we know more about the three bids. City officials are just now beginning to sort through the 1/2-inch thick documents. The city says it hopes to make summaries of each bid available this afternoon, and the whole document available by the end of the day.

Here's what we know about the three developers:

Hines --- The group the Tampa Bay Rays have been working with, Hines' bid was all but assured months ago. They're calling their proposal WestEnd St. Pete. The publicly known concept includes 1-million square feet of retail space (the size approx. of International Plaza) and about 900 homes.

Archstone-Madison -- A partnership between Archstone Smith and Madison Marquetee, two D.C.-area companies. We told you on Sunday they may be a likely bidder. Their project is called EcoVerde.

Williams Quater -- The company we know the least about. In fact, we couldn't find them in a quick Google search. But they are partnering with DeBartolo Holdings, a Tampa company known for retail developments.

City officials say all of the bids were received this morning. Both city and Rays officials sounded pleased with the response from the development community. We'll update this post later when we know more about the bids.

UPDATE (10:18 a.m.) -- Three bids: Williams Quarter (teaming with DeBartolo Holdings and other developers); Archstone-Madison; Hines.

UPDATE (10:16 a.m.) -- City economic development director Dave Goodwin just walked in. He's carrying three packets of information. Looks like three bids.

UPDATE (10:12 a.m.) --- Rays officials Michael Kalt, Melanie Lenz and Robbie Artz just walked in. We're still waiting on the city.

ST. PETERSBURG -- We're here on the eighth floor of the city's downtown Municipal Services Building, waiting for city officials to unveil the bids for the possible redevelopment of Tropicana Field. It's mainly an affair for the media, though former City Council member Kathleen Ford is seated in the back row. (Ford, you might remember, argued earlier this month that the bidding process should be stopped because she believed the developer the Tampa Bay Rays are working with, Hines, had an unfair advantage.)

It's hard to know what to expect. Quietly, city officials are hoping for three bids to redevelop the 86-acre site. To put that in some perspective, a 110-acre Washington D.C. site drew seven initial bids last fall.

What'll be more interesting is the price that developers are offering. The money generated by the possible redevelopment is critical to the Rays' $450-million stadium proposal. We should have some information within the half hour. Details of the proposal, however, may not be available until this afternoon, city officials say.

Complete coverage: Ballpark by the bay

-- Aaron Sharockman, Times Staff Writer

Comments

[Mr Hem & Mrs Haw]

The thing the opposition doesn't get in this arguement, is that we arent arguing over who's the greatest band here....the decision of wether to allow the new stadium to be built has millions of dollars of impact on the residences of this city. To stand in the way of this progress stickly because of a "gut feeling" or because "big brother is gonna tax us one way or another" are not viable arguements in preventing the economic impact this would have on the city. To make such a decision is extraordinarly selfish, and self defeating since it hurts the city you live in. If there are factual, viable reasons for the stadium to not be built, then it behoves you to bring them up to educate those on the fence on the subject matter.

[Bodog]

@Jeff Gilbert - Finally, someone made some DAMN sense.

[Ignorant Opposition Guy]

Man, you all are naive. There will be taxes galore with this new stadium. How do I know this? The old guy in my head told me so. And why would we want all the greedy businesses of St. Pete to have the ability to earn millions more when we can have another pretty park that earns the city nothing. This city is perfect and should never change. - Signed Mr. Hem and Mrs. Haw

[Jeff Gilbert]

What we see above, folks, is another example of the well-thought-out opinions we will be hearing from now to November. Everyone professes to KNOW how voters will vote on the referendum. I guess from surveys, opinion polls, a vote maybe? Oh, what's that? You don't need a vote to know what the vote will be? Who's naive now?

Most people are not so gung-ho as many of the posters on this board, or as cynical as many others. In fact, most people change their mind about what they want or think or believe more often than a lot of people on this chat change their underwear.

Point is, cynics, without some reasonable, COHERENT dialogue on this subject (CapnC, I'm looking at you), we won't really know why we should be against this thing other than: we shouldn't trust rich people and somebody is trying to scam us. The fact is, this is the same voting public that built the Trop. Seems to me like you scammed yourself. Someone comes along who wants to get you out of the mess you're in, (yes, for a profit, which is how we operate here in the ol' USA), and you get a case of "fool me once...er, fool me, can't get fooled again."

No matter what, the city is on the hook for the vacant Al Lopez park (1 millon/year upkeep) we get back our beloved land housing the Namoli complex, and the debt service on the bonds to build the Trop. If you don't want growth, fine, but then why are you letting all of the high rise condos go up - spoiling our view of the bay? You don't want public land being used for limited public benefit? Fine, but explain to me how an arts center produces tangible economic benefit for the city. Don't like baseball? Maybe I don't like free concerts at Vinoy park. Parks aren't sacred, all they do (in some peoples opinion) is make a city a nicer place to live in. How is a baseball stadium any different? Some people will find it adds value, others won't. Building this stadium isn't going to sink the city if its done right, and standing in front of development just sticks you with the crap you already have. All those in favor of the keeping the crap they already have, say "NAY".

Until November, if that's all you have to say go tell someone else.

[CapnC]

Hey this is fun, we have alot of naive,immature, or less than smart people around here. The new stadium is a failure from the outset, doesn't conform to zoning,failure from baseball's original promise, cost to the residents, promises from public officials, and more and more. Anyone who thinks this project is without increase tax burden is nuts. The trop still has a tag before it can be retired and redevelopement is a high risk if an option at all. It is only an owner wish not a wish of the residents and a referendum will show. Then what, suck wind.... The Rays haven't fulfilled the original deal why let them steal more valuble resources. They give back the training facility at Naimoli, then the trop, next they won't like a new field and go somewhere else. When is it time to hold a deal to a deal, and tell the spoiled brats to give the community back some of what they took. Al Lang field is fine as is and if it comes down let the residents enjoy the friuts of the land. The Marina is off limits and it can't be expanded outward and as many naive writers note is note a haven for the shipless nor the rich not so famous, dumb....The whole idea of a new stadium with state of the art to overtake existing traditions and committments is pompous. The marina leave alone, the bayshore dr leave alone, let the performing arts complex exist without the intrusion of questionable arts and the elimination of worthwhile open space. enough for now, bring it on!

[John]

Why couldn't the Rays and MLB fund the stadium in that scenario (minus the sale of the land where the Trop is now, as the public's contribution)?

[Jeff Gilbert]

Maybe John. I say maybe because the whole area would still need to be redeveloped to fund any new stadium. Is there enough room for the project and a stadium? I don't think so, but I would love to hear a more detailed plan for this.

[John]

Could that all be accomplished by building a new stadium adjacent to the Trop, then developing where the Trop is now once its demolished?

[Jeff Gilbert]

I appreciate the hightened level of discourse. The problem with building the stadium outside of St. Pete Downtown is twofold:

1. Redevelopment of Trop would generate revenue which is partially earmarked (by law) to be spent only in downtown (Rays still contend no new taxes)
2. Rays are still under lease for Trop, a move outside the city would result in default.

Funding this thing is a stretch already, so the structure of the deal is vital (TIF money for downtown, and no penalty for breaking lease will be vital).

I would be fine with another location, but where inside city limits?

[John]

Shoot I don't want some stupid, bum hotel of a park there. I just don't want to try to cram that stadium in there when another alternative would be better, like the one I just gave, in my opinion.

[John]

Who said anything about another park (or was that aimed at something someone said earlier)?

[Biff]

Hilarious! As if there aren't enough waterfront parks down there...

-Vinoy Park
-Straub Park
-Demen's landing
-The new park at the airport
-Northshore Park..

[John]

Here's an alternative, build a new, super frickin' awesome stadium next to the Trop and use a renovated Al Lang for college ball plus build a museum of spring training history right into the back of it. Jimbo's idea of an amphitheater sounds cool too. Maybe the kind with big shows like over in Tampa near the casino.

[Jimbo]

Definitely, I agree a stadium would be the best fit there, Jeff. I just think that we should consider alternatives should (somehow) the proposal go south, either by the voters shooting it down (which I don't see happening) to the redevelopment not working out (which is possible, though not probable). Anyone who doesn't consider alternatives is doing themselves an injustice by remaining completely close-minded.

While I would love to see a stadium there (and hope for nothing less), I'd much rather have (yet another) park than some gaudy condo tower on that site (the Al Lang Towers, 55+ multi-millionaires only). I think almost everyone can agree with that.

[John]

I could care less about the condo owners you're talking about, I agree. The marina, as well, is a little too uptight for me (I like real boats).

Still, I don't like the Rays' plan. It just doesn't do it for me, for so many reasons.

For one, there's not enough room there for that big old thing. Plus the parking issue would be stupid. I don't want to drive around in circles for an hour trying to find one of who knows how many lots that have availability. And I don't want to walk for 20-30 minutes to get to the darn game.

Plus I like having indoor games.

Also, the Rays owners, in my opinion, are the type of people who live in condos like Bayfront and drive faggy yachts--even more so than the people here. This plan just seems to be an investment opportunity for them to get richer, and I don't think they care less whether its really good for us in the long run or not.

I mean, the stadium looks cool, I'm not denying that. I understand why people want it. But sometimes we convince ourselves that something we want is something we need (is good for us) when really that's not the case (just ask my wife about my motorcycle).

[jeff Gilbert]

Again, I don't see how building another waterfront park is going to improve the quality of St. Pete. The town is already about as beautiful as it can get. The Stadium as proposed looks less like an eyesore (except for the several hundred people who's view would be obstructed) and more like an architectural installation. It seems to me to be the kind of bold statement that can help add definition to a downtown area. Surely, someone disagrees...

I think, though, that efforts to serve the narrow interests of a relatively small number of condo owners, or GASP, the disenfranchised and downtrodden yacht owners who go slipless due to limited marina space, as opposed to all of the baseball fans in the county (and greater Bay area) are misplaced. There is also nothing that says the marina can't or won't be expanded as a result of the stadium being built. 0.6 acres of polluted marina lost could be reclaimed by expanding outward. It actually seems likely to me this would happen eventually if the stadium is built (think of the cache!). It also seems highly unlikely the marina would be expanded by blowing up the land to make more waterspace (path of least resistance, anyone?)

[John]

Jimbo, all interesting ideas. And all ideas that, to me, sound better than the stadium idea.

I want to let everyone know that I am a huge fan of baseball (well, don't hate me but I'm a Braves fan) and I agree, the Trop is not a good baseball stadium from a player's perspective.

However, so many things about this deal just don't seem right. I've been keeping an open mind, but the more I see, the less this sits right with me.

I don't want to "dis" the Rays, but I think they need to come up with a new plan.

[Homeless Drug Addicts and Child Molesting Bums]

Thanks for being on our side Amanda! We need that public money!

[Jimbo]

Well, thank you for the incredibly thoughtful idea. I was hoping for someone who opposed the stadium to give me something constructive like that, so thank you.

I can definitely see that as a good idea, should the stadium not work out.

But Amanda, why would you want to turn it into parkland if it's been the historic home of baseball for 80 years? Wouldn't a museum be a fitting ode to years gone by? I mean, we have over (and this is a guesstimate, perfectionists!) 100 acres of parkland already on the Bay. Shouldn't we think to do something different, something new, with this 14 acres?

How about an outdoor amphitheater or even a permanent display of public art commemorating all sports in St. Pete, not just baseball? There could be something dedicated to the Grand Prix, baseball (of course), and even great sports figures from the Bay Area, like Don Zimmer, Fred McGriff, Lee Roy Selmon, Dick Vitale, and countless others.

See? I'm not just crying "STADIUM!" anymore, I'm open to think about alternatives, in case this doesn't go through, because St. Petersbugrers are fickle, at best. I hope it goes through, but I'm realistic also.

[Amanda]

I feel that the land on which the Al Lang Field currently sits would be an awesome location for a waterfront park. I don't like the idea of a stadium being built there, blocking the waterfront views for those who live and work downtown. My Dad has a boat slip at the marina downtown and waiting list for that place is YEARS long, so I might even like to see that marina expand some. The downtown area of St. Petersburg is lovely and a park would be a more meaningful addition to the area, than a huge stadium.

[Jimbo]

I agree, and it makes supporters like me look like monsters. Uncalled for is an understatement.

However, now that you're here, Amanda, could you answer that question for me? I want to see what you bring productive (not necessarily supportive of the stadium concept) to the blog in regards to ideas?

[Amanda]

Bill, your comment was un-called for and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You have suck to new levels to insult me, merely because I am against the new stadium. You make me sick.

[Bill]

Note to perfectionists - I used the term "Trop" because the new stadium (that will be built) does not yet have a name. Tent City Park has a nice ring to it.

[Bill]

I propose that once the new stadium opens they have "Retro-Active Abortion Day!" at the Trop and Amanda's mother attends wearing her brand new Evan Longoria jersey.

[Jimbo]

Wow, you really need to calm down, because there you go again NOT READING. Let me say this very clearly for you, since you STILL haven't gotten it over the course of three days:

I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO HAVE DIFFERING OPINIONS, AND I DO NOT SAY THEY ARE WRONG!

If you feel bad about what I write, it's not my doing, it's you reading something completely wrong.

And I didn't "deviate FROM the subject," I merely pointed out classifying a whole group of people one way is erroneous. I, a resident of St. Pete, support the stadium and (so far) the redevelopment. Saying supporters are a "bunch of college drop outs to do their dirty work" is a lie, because I'm not a college drop out, nor am I doing anyone's bidding for them. I think for myself and just encourage people to do that also, no matter what they believe.

So, at your request, Amanda, I will no longer "deviate FROM the subject" and ask you for your input. Please, what ideas do you bring to the table? You've made it perfectly clear that (for unknown reasons, and I don't care to hear them if you don't want to tell them) we should not have a waterfront stadium. That's perfectly fine. What do you suggest they do with Al Lang instead, and why?

[Amanda]

People have their own opinions... just GET OVER IT! If you want to discuss why you are for the idea, fine... but, don't deviate the subject to make someone who is AGAINST the plan feel bad. Just let others have their opinions, while you have your own... end of story.

[Jimbo]

Amanda, do you even read what anyone writes? Just because we're for the plan and we present why we are doesn't mean for one second that I think they're wrong (I won't speak for anyone else). And I'm knocking anyone down. I've just said it's not good to use a generalization to characterize the entire city. I even mentioned that I'm a tad more skeptical after hearing the lack of financing, but until I see what the concrete numbers are, I'm still for the project.

That doesn't say, "because they're against it, they're wrong." No, not once have I ever said that. I still encourage differing opinions (like I originally said March 18, 2008 at 02:14 PM, and though I would still like more facts to back up the differing opinions, that's neither here nor there), because I know people are (hopefully) thinking for themselves and how it will benefit or hurt them themselves. So, like I said before, please don't make general statements, because not everyone is how you declare them.

[Amanda]

You guys are pathetic... you just continue to knock down anyone who is against the plan, regardless of their reasoning. It's amazing...

[Jimbo]

Really? We'll vote it down? I'd still like to know where all these people against it are.

In regards to redeveloping the parking lot only, that won't fly because the Rays, while not the owners, have veto power on what happens at the stadium. And since there'd be no parking left in a reasonable distance, they'd be vehemently against it.

I do have to admit, though, that I don't like the lack of financing right now. However, as the City and the Rays have said, this under-bidding is normal to projects of this size, and I'll wait till I see what they all concede before I make any judgment against.

I'm still in favor of this project, and there's been overwhelmingly positive feedback from people I've talked to. Why these people come up with "everyone", "no one", and other close-ended statements is beyond me, because having something like that proves they're fabricating their story. Close-ended words like that are fictitious, just like "always", "never", and the like, generalizes a few voices to mean the entire population, and since I'm for it, you're lying.

Try using, "I'm against it," or, "A lot of people I know..." or even, "The vast majority..." Don't use "everyone" or "the entire city." It just counters your otherwise factless point.

[Jason]

Hey Fiscally responsible government, The Rays' current lease at the Trop gives them all control over any redevelopment of the Trop site. How could they "do that today" as you describe? Where would people park if all of the parking lots were redeveloped? I assume you don't realize the tremendous cost of parking garages.

[there it is]

and there you have it. The Ray's PR machine has begun. Notice a theme here? I do... with the 'get the facts' lines. Its so obvious, but then again, they likley hired a bunch of college drop outs to do their dirty work. They are Wall Street villans, remember. This is going to get ugly, I predict. No matter though, because us St Pete citizens will vote this down so hard, they'll be shamed to no end.

[Fiscally responsible government]

Show me the money! It isn't there and it isn't even close! Only one developer, Hines, offered $50 million. That still leaves $250 million from somewhere else to build a new stadium and the City can't wait 35 years until it actually receives that money to pay construction costs for a new Rays' stadium, waterfront offices and parking garage. Intriguing though, if the market changes perhaps the City should consider redeveloping the parking lots which it can do TODAY under the current agreement. Gee, why hasn't the Mayor, City Council, Rays or City staff discussed that option? Could it be because the Rays want all of the City's assets at the Trop? Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered!

[Jimbo]

Oh, Billy Boy, you are such a prankster. I love your style (and your sexy shoulders).

I'm going to take a bubble bath! Mmmmm

[Billy Boy]

I'm just playin with you guys. I really don't want a new stadium and I have no idea how the vote will go.

I'm just trying to show people who are on the fence that the people who are for the deal aren't paying attention to the details. They just want a new stadium under any circumstance.

[Billy Boy]

You're not Billy Boy, I'm Billy Boy!

[Billy Boy]

I love Billy Boy!

[Billy Boy]

I'm just playin with you guys. I really want a new stadium and I have no idea how the vote will go.

I'm just trying to show people who are on the fence that the people who oppose the deal aren't paying attention to the details. They just don't want a new stadium under any circumstance.

[Billy Boy]

I like totally like Williams Quarter's because they're so mysterious about the money and everything...like, super sexy!

But on the other hand, Archstone does guarantee payments of at least a million a year. That should only take 250 years to make up the amount needed for the new stadium.

But hines does offer cold hard cash. Now we just need to find $300,000,000 more and we're all set.

It's a tough choice, they're all dreamboats!

[Jimbo]

Wow....and then there's that. Why do you guys even give people like Billy Boy the time of day, especially since you can tell he's just arguing for arguments sake? It makes people who support the stadium (like myself) look like we're trying to prove everyone wrong. He's a troll and once he's realized he's being ignored, he'll go away. Like I always say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't drown him in it....or something like that.

Back to the topic at hand. I briefly scanned all the proposals, and I actually like Archstone's because it's more retail-oriented and helps to liven up the area while still providing about 1300 residential units. Williams Quarter's has the most residential, great for someone like me who wants to live downtown, but there's not a whole lot else going on. Hines' is full of green space but has the least residential of them all. I'm leaning toward Archstone's but it's still way too early for me to pick a fave.

[Billy Boy]

What else would I quote other than crap rock for you guys? I only dust off the good stuff when its worth it.

But you like crap rock, right? What about German crap porn?

That's what's gonna happen when this goes to referendum, a big orgy of crap's gonna get smeared all over your little scheme!

Ha!

[Tom Waits]

Billy, it took no time at all. I can telepathically post my thoughts on message boards anytime someone quotes crap-rock. I'm that good. I've never actually been here. I'm not even here right now. I just know you quoted crap-rock and my thoughts are being posted here.

[Billy Boy]

I am home from school, how the heck did you know? That was a real smart thing you just said!

Man, maybe I SHOULD start listenin' to you boneheads.

[Jason]

So, Billy are you home from school today?

[Billy Boy]

Well you took the time to respond so I guess that says a little somethin' about you don't it scratchy throat?

[Tom Waits]

Silly Boy, if you are going to quote a musician from Jersey, quote me. Quoting Bon Jovi proves you are a moron. Nobody is going to take that seriously, except of course other morons.

[Billy Boy]

Did I say I was against it. Huh?

I'm keepin' an open mind, ya'll. I want to look at all the facts and stuff, you know.

I just know the voters aint gonna buy it!

Is your face blue yet? No, then keep on arguin' You're right, I'm dumber than dirt. So what does that make you for goin' at it with me.

Ha!

[Jason]

Billy why are you against the proposal? Do you actually have a reason or just an ignorant opinion?

[Billy Boy]

Ah yeah, Jason brother, you jump in there too!

Yee-haw!

It's like spittin' on goats! Yall gettin real riled up, aint ya!

Tell you what, if it passes (or if it rains pigs) I'll buy you a hot cup of shut the f up!

[Billy Man]

Boy, you say blah blah blah because you don't have the brain capacity to understand the post. You just quoted Bon Jovi. Seriously? Ok then.

[Billy Boy]

Blah blah blah. The good people of St Pete aint hearing any of that nonsense Kenny boy.

Besides, if what that guys said aint true why did you spend so much time denying it.

Ha!

This deal is going out Bon Jovi style, "Going down in a blaze of..."

Oh wait, probably won't be glory.