Selig's tough Trop talk, and Tino's task ...

Baseball commissioner Bud Selig has only attended one game at Tropicana Field as far as anyone knows, and that was in June 2004, before all the improvements by the Stuart Sternberg-led ownership group.
But that didn't stop Selig from bashing the Trop, in his bid to push the importance of the new stadium, in an interview with ESPN's Howard Bryant, which is excerpted below. And the way Selig answered the St. Pete/Tampa question is interesting, especially since the Rays have a lease with St. Petersburg through 2027.

Tampa Bay has been the league's success story in the first half, but it has not translated to better attendance. What is your level of concern for the future of baseball in Tampa?
Look, they're really pushing on a new ballpark. I think if they can get it done, it will really help them, no question about it. They've got a good club. They've done a great job scouting and drafting. Their attendance is up 4,500, but it's not enough. They can't make it in that ballpark. Have you been there?

Many times.
Do I need to tell you any more than that? And so, they need a new stadium. The demographics of the Tampa-St. Pete area are good enough for baseball.

On the St. Pete side, though?
Well, they're going to have to make that judgment. If they can get rights … I know there are people who think it needs to be on the Tampa side, but I'm going to leave that to (principal owner) Stu Sternberg. If they can get a new ballpark built, yes, I think they can be a very successful franchise.

Also, former Ray, longtime Yankee and Tampa favorite son Tino Martinez was chosen for an interesting assignment, managing the World team for the All-Star Futures game on July 13 at Yankee Stadium. Former big-league player and manager Davey Johnson will manage the U.S. team, a logical choice since he will also manage the U.S. Olympic team in China in August. Rosters for the teams will be announced June 26.

[Getty Images]

Comments

[tom]

Selig was selected as commissioner by the other owners, led by(yes you guessed it)George Steinbrenner)to be basically a YES man. Selig screwed up the allstar game years ago and thought that the league winner should determine home field for the world series. Kind of took the starch out of playing for the best record in the regular season, huh? Now he's complaining about the Trop? The last time I looked the new parks built in Pittsburgh and uh, Milwaukee(Seligs oldteam)arent drawing many fans either. Put a proven winner on the field and the fans will come, not a new stadium. I moved here in 1985 from Ohio, a Reds fan, and started going to Rays games when they drafted Carl Crawford. I support the team, watching on tv and going to the games for the last 7 years. Ive been to about 10 games already this years and Im just a baseball fan, period. The Rays new owners have gone about building a competitive team the right way. There is a good mix a young and veteran players and the fans are starting to come. Whether its the Trop or a new stadium the folks need to continue to support the team. Go Rays!

Lets see

14,000 Rays fans last night.

916,000 other Pinellas County residents and millions of beach bound tourists are expected to pick up the tab for a new stadium on the waterfront.

Plan B as suggested by former St Pete councilman Bill Foster is the only way a new stadium will be accepted by voters.

NOT NOW
NOT ON THE WATERFRONT
LESS TAXPAYER MONEY

[Bodog]

Folks, quit bitching about nowhere to park if the new stadium is built, There is a 1400 car capacity parking garage south of the new stadium, a couple of other parking lots approx 2 block north of the new site, all kinds of smaller privately owned lots with in a 6 block radius of the new site, and if they wanted to make the parking an issue, the Rays could buy those parking lots west of the Trop field and ferry the fans via the downtown looper to the new site. 6th ave. so, 5th ave so, and 1st ave so are perfect for entry to the new site. Parking is not going to be that big of an issue, so quit your bitching. It can be worked out.

[Raynation]

I apologize, mueseum is spelled museum. I apologize for any ignorant comments, mispellings, or lack of education, because we live in St petersburg , FL and support our Rays nation. Now, it is a rediculous comment to say, I moved down here because of the snow. Please don't make any more ignorant comments like that. Man up for petes sake. We don't want you here, you are not wanted. Nobody likes you. Seriously.Go back to the hole you came out of you troll. On a lighter note, St Petersburg has art and culture if you know where to look. The Salvador Dali, Ruth Eckerd Hall. Don't you know how to use your computer ? Google it. I personally like going to the beach and then to a Rays game at night. This caps off a really good day for me. I don't mind other opposing fans, but when we rub it in your face when we win, man up and take it. You made the choice.

[Brian]

If you don't like St. Petersburg, then go elsewhere. Red Sox fans don't let the door hit you on the way out.(we love to watch you spend your money and lose) SS you should have never come here in the first place. Have you been to the Salvador Dali mueseum ? Oh I guess you don't know what culture is. Irritated, or whatever hole you crawled out of you troll. Rays nation !!!! If you don't like snow,then man up and deal with it. This is Rays nation baby !!!!

[mm]

Let me ask all of you asking the Rays to move to Tampa something. Where in Tampa would you put it? I don't know of any vacant property available or any property that is currently being used that you could uproot and move the business. Just curious.

[steve oneal]

Ben, I'm dissapointed to hear you are a teacher. That is a scary thought that someone like you is influencing young minds. ALL PRO SPORTS TEAMS IN FLORIDA ALREADY GET A STATE TAX BREAK, RESEARCH THAT.You did actually say have the CITY BUILD parking garages on ugly vacant lots. Is cursing and being disrespectful one of the classes you teach? Yea I am a sports fan and I cursed at a game until I noticed the families with young children looking at me and I realized how RUDE and ignorant I was acting. I apologized to the parents and the children(bought them some cotton candy) and told the kids that I was acting stupid and their father was right to be upset with me. That was about 5yrs ago @ USF FB game. To this day I don't curse or try to be rude to opposing fans. I still am a season ticket holder(16 seats) at USF fb games and cheer for my team.

[Dom]

Moving to Al Lang? You can't get there from here. Toy Town could work. Why destroy a residential neighborhood? Are those New Yorkers trying to turn Bayshore Dr into Jerome Ave?

[Jh Skyscrapercity]

68%NO to 19%yes in the Times' most recent poll says this one is DOA.

I just want to know if the Rays are going to pay for the cost of proposing this crap now, when the writing was all over the wall that this is a non-starter until the Trop's mortgage is paid off in 2016.

Btw, if our good friend Bud Selig comes back at the right time, and is ready to chip in 1/3 of the cost, with the Rays doing a 1/3, and the taxpayers doing 1/3, and than all parties equally split stadium revenues (as would be fair for any such capital investment) I bet voters would pass that in an instant.

Voters like it when the deals they are obligated to are fair. What they don't like is welfare, corporate or otherwise.

[Nathan]

This really is pointless and a waste of time. Almost midnight; one day closer to death.

[Simon]

Thank you, Harold. There was a much more intelligent debate yesterday on the whole drilling thing. This one was a waste of time in every way, completely devoid of intellect. Not one legitimate comment. And like a moron I sat here and read it and am now going to post a comment devoid of any intellect and thought.

[Harold]

what a waste of a blog
2/3 geography arguing 1/3 name calling.
Reguritation and flatulation with not a single defensible discussion. Only argumentative Noise.

[Irritated]

So I am assuming that you are one of these people that thinks every person that steps foot into a ball park must be dressed in the colors of the home team? That is just ridiculous. A huge part of sports is the rivalry. I love going into Fenway and seeing people with their teams colors on. It shows that they are true fans. I do not take it as disrespect at all. And you should probably also remember that us true fans of our hometown teams that go to YOUR stadium to support OUR team, helps your team and stadium thrive. For you to think anything different is just ignorant. I have had enough "defending" my allegiance to my team. Anyone that will just change their team really isn't a true fan for life.

[Nathan]

No, Irritated, I didn't misunderstand anything and your purchase of Rays gear is irrelevant. What I find "irritating" is that you CHOSE to leave New England. You DECIDED warm weather was more important to you than the other things NE offered. But when it comes to your team, you CHOOSE to stick with them despite that you've physically rejected the area it represents by voluntarily moving away.

Yes, I am a native. Fourth generation. And I'm so sick of you transplants who move here and cling to your northern allegiances. If I decide to leave Florida because of the weather (which is quite likely) I will NOT go to my new hometown's stadium and disrespect that team by wearing Rays colors. You VOLUNTARILY give up your home, you give up your team. It's really that simple. Or at least it should be.

[Tony]

will you anti-stadium guys ever get it right? do you ever trade in your car for something new/better? when you trade in, it's not like you're throwing away the money you spent for the old car. geez!

the new stadium *should* wind up costing about the same as the trop, especially when inflation is factored in. so we'd be getting a new stadium for the same payment as the old stadium. if you could trade in you 5 year old monte carlo for a new caddy cts and wind up with the same payment, wouldn't you do it?

[Irritated]

Nathan - honestly, where I live or for how long is none of your business. I was simply commenting on a SPORTS comment about hometown teams, nothing more. And incase you missed it, I do cheer for the Rays when I go to the games. I have gone out and purchase Rays gear and I wear that when I attend. I enjoy seeing them do so great this year. But when my hometown team is in town, I support them. You cannot tell me that if you lived somewhere for 25 years of your life and then your job moved you elsewhere, you would just ditch the team you have supported and grew up watching just because there is a team there?? I just don't think so. But maybe you have lived here your whole life so you couldn't understand what it is like to stay true to your team no matter what.

[Mark]

I have nothing against St. Pete, but having the team there effectively cuts off the Orlando fans from attending many games,
especially during the week. It's 2 hours each way. There are a lot of Rays
fan here as evidenced by the 10,000 fans that attended each of the Disney games the last 2 years. A stadium near the amphitheater (sp?)would give the Orlando fans easier access. I know it's a pipe dream. I will just keep attending the Disney games. GO RAYS - Swept the Cubbies - Lou was not happy!

[Nathan]

So, "irritated," our weather is good enough for you, but our teams aren't? Move back to NE. You and your ilk are neither needed nor wanted here. You treat Florida like your permanent hotel room. 95 runs north, too.

[Nathan]

St. Pete is a tattoo crowd? Seriously? Stroll down First Avenue North or Central and tell the art galleries and bistros don't outnumber the bars like the Emerald by about 5-to-1. Please. I'm not knocking St. Pete necessarily for pursuing a more "arts-driven" culture; but I am saying the sports crowd and the arts crowd are not complimentary. And I don't want to hear from anyone who says "I love both arts and sports." There are all of about six of you.

Move the stadium to Toy Town or Tampa. St. Pete clearly isn't interested in either a new stadium or the team. I normally see little value in pitting Tampa against Pinellas, but in this case it's unavoidable and Tampa is the only logical location if this team is to remain in the metropolitan Bay Area.

[Irritated]

Lucy - If you think that just because someone moves to this state they have to start cheering for the Rays, you are sadly mistaken. I have been a Red Sox fan my whole entire life. I left New England because I do not like the snow. It has nothing to do with not liking where I grew up and certainly has nothing to do with sports. I can tell you that I have always been a Sox fan and I will always be a Sox fan. When I go to Rays games, I root for the Rays to do well. But when the Sox are in town, I am decked out in my Sox gear and proud of it. And I am sure every other Sox fan, Yankee fan or Cubs fan feels the same way. Just because I live here does not make the Rays my "hometown team".

[Dave]

They gotta build a stadium in Feather Sound or near RayJay. The St. Pete cite is a revenue-killer. I live in Palm Harbor, and St. Pete is just too darn far....

[Tom]

That's why Selig wants the team to hold the city hostage-by telling everyone they need a new stadium even though he has never been to the upgraded version and probably has no clue what the weather is like. Remember this is a guy from Milwaukee (how is the temp there compared to here) who helped hold THAT city hostage for a new stadium too. It's bad enough when teams do it, now the whole league is going to hold us hostage

[Lucy]

SS, if you don't want to be here, please go back to whatever wonderful city you call home. You won't be missed. Besides, I'm not the one with any work to do. After all, I am the one who is very happy where I chose to make my home. Let me know if you need any help packing. I know some great moving companies.

That said, GO RAYS!!!!!! SWEEP! SWEEP! SWEEP!

[Matt]

Well Uncle Bud... if the Rays can't make it in the Trop, why did you allow them to play there 10 years ago? Stop pandering for Stewie, the Rays are making more than enough money.

[SS]

Nathan, please trust me on this one, this is not a brie and chardonnay crowd, this is a tattoo and motorcycle crowd, at least those who are not retired. If there was more culture and art here I wouldn't be moving in August.

[Nathan]

To all you mental Pygmies who keep saying "if they win, fans will show up," I say "where are the freaking fans, now?" I go to as many games as I can right now. St. Petersburg is like Sarasota, a bunch of self-righteous snobs who think their town is "above" professional sports. I say bring the team to Tampa. This is more of a working-class city and will support the team much more so than the brie and chardonnay crowd in Pinellas.

[Ben]

Steve: Please get your facts correct. This sentence almost convinced me to stop reading the rest of your diatribe: "The rays plan includes tax breaks from the state on top of hotel tax" - No it doesn't actually. You read one article from several months ago when the Rays were trying to get a tax rebate from the state which was later revised and completely done away with. That part you must have missed. And the hotel tax? Really? Are you that worried about it? If you can afford to stay in hotels instead of your own house in the SAME city then you do not need to worry about taxes. I am a teacher and as I said I will not support a stadium that is using my tax dollars at this moment because I have no extra money! But I am a VERY informed citizen who researches and pays attention before I speak! And sure I am wrong sometimes, but do your research on this topic please. Also, I never said anything about the city paying for new garages, however, garages are pretty profitable since they are relatively cheap to build. Most of those empty lots are not owned by the city so of course the city cannot build on them, but some encouragement from the city to get some developers on board for that kind of plan would not be unreasonable. And your analogy is completely off based, because my house (actually apartment) is PRIVATE property. If my house was owned by the city and they decided to kick me out and sell it, then thats their decision. And lastly, commenting on my habits as a fan? Get a life! Have you gone to a ballgame before? Of course I was exaggerating somewhat, but a game is supposed to have that kind of atmosphere! Chill out, please, PLEASE get informed, I do not except ignorance from teenagers, and I certainly do not tolerate it from adults.

[slambojr.]

This is a lose lose proposition for the overtaxed homeowners of St. Pete. Don't buy into the lies of City hall and the Rays we will end up paying for this corporate welfare . $450 million plus to move the rays 16 blocks. I say let them leave town, good riddance!

[Kenneth]

Look - here it is plane and simple. The people of St. Pete just aren't the same as folks over in Tampa, or in Miami, or in any larger city. We moved here because we like the slower, more laid back pace of St. Pete. We also spend more time outdoors - partly because we have excellent resources such as the Pinellas Trail, and Vinoy Park to name just a few.

You can call us old and out of touch - but that's just not the case. I'm 28 and a huge baseball fan. I love going to the Trop to see the Rays play. But there's such a thing as fiscal responsibility - something that used to be a staple of Republican politics. The numbers just don't add up, and the people putting them together (the Rays) are far from objective.

Poke fun of us all you want - we don't care. We have the right to do as we choose - and I hope the issue is put to a vote. But if the Rays pack up and leave, so be it. That's their prerogative. If Tampa, Clearwater, or any other local municipality wants to pitch a stadium to the team, I think that would be great.

There's a lot of red signs out there for a reason - if the Rays left tomorrow we'd be disappointed - but life would go on. Some of you folks are so concerned about giving a greedy business government tax dollars, but could care less about the hundreds of homeless veterans that currently occupy the space they're looking to build on.

It's our town - we'll do as we please. If you don't like it - build the stadium the Rays want in your town. I'll drive over and catch a game there sometime.

[SS]

Don't worry about what I do, Lucy, you need to work on yourself. I'll be all right. I will root for my home team. I would never raise kids in this place. The people are ignorant and self-righteous and the schools are not acceptable.

[Lucy]

Why no mention of ESPN's interview of the Cub's Derrek Lee today? He's someone who has actually been to the Trop in the past 4 years. When asked if the Trop was a dump, he laughed and said no. I'm paraphrasing, but basically he said the clubhouse is first class and the food is amazing.

My husband and I just bought season tix at the Trop. We waited a week to purchase them and the ones we originally wanted were sold which means people are jumping on the bandwagon. Give people and the Rays time. Half a year of winning baseball after 10 years of complete ineptitude and failure isn't enough to win a significant fan base overnight. I've been a Rays fan from the start, but I was raised rooting for the Mets so I'm used to disappointment. The Rays aren't the Cubs or the Sox, teams that have been around for over 100 years and have built a huge fan base. The Red Sox and the Cubs can weather decades of being losers without suffering much loss in attendance because of that. We also have a bunch of idiot transplants that still root for their old hometown team. If this is your hometown now, and you're planning to raise your kids and grow old here, you need to let go of the past and support your hometown. If Boston and NY are so great, go back.

I admit, I like the Trop, but I'm not against a new stadium. Mostly I don't want to lose our team. And people, relax. Our pocketbooks won't notice a difference. The money is going to come out of a tourist tax.

[Callie]

First of all, do your research before posting angry and ignorant comments. Second, I am a St. Pete resident and fully endorse the new stadium. It's a win for everyone involved. Those of you who love the downtown and waterfront? Great! Share it with others! I love going downtown, going to the waterfront, and I love the idea of having a ballpark there. And those of you in Tampa who keep hating on St. Pete - how often have you been here? And that brings me to my only angry comment - why the heck can't you Tampa people drive across the bridge to come to a game??? Do you realize how often we drive across the bridge to YOUR side of town? It's really not that bad! Get the mental block out of your head and just try it. Our Rays deserve it.

[Rex]

QB1- You crack me up with all of your lecturing to the ignorant and uneducated. Someone as well educated as you really ought to know English better. The possessive of you is not "you're", it's "your" and the possessive of "it" is not "it's" but "its". You're =you are and it's = it is. Maybe you need to stop living in the fast lane long enough to learn English.

[George's Wife]

Free sunglases & Kool and the Gang won't hurt either! yea! I'm there this Saturday!

[jodi]

tyler 5:10 if you work 5 days a week, have kids sporting events on Saturday and have elementary school age children that need to be in bed by 9:00 on a school night what day does that leave for a ball game? Sunday afternoon, and if you honestly believe that rain won't make it in the new stadium oh well.

[Brian]

I think it's too early to jump the gun on making any moves yet. Let the fans start to feel comfortable with this team. It will catch on trust me. Also, instead of a new stadium, how about a retractable roof ? I sure don't like game delays, bugs, and hot moist air. I went to the game last night and it was refreshing to go into air conditioning. Especially with alot of elderly people. Thirdly, Rays fans tickets are as cheap as $11. You can walk down to two different party areas and see the game differently, or stand if you want to. You can't get tickets around the league cheaper than that. Let's prove Selig we are confident loyal baseball fans !!!! I like the atmosphere of the trop. The only drawback is the rafters above where the baseball on occasion goes up and doesn't come down. Other than that, lets look at our own back yard first before we look eleswhere. I have been to three games now and will keep attending as long as I can with cold fresca beverages.

[steve oneal]

Ben, you are wrong on several points. The rays plan includes tax breaks from the state on top of hotel tax. The 150m is not upfront money. The additional 300m is an estimate and may not ever come in. If the rays are so sure this revenue will come in why not GUARANTEE it and assume any risk if it doesn't? Since it is such a no brainer they would not have to worry about paying any shortfalls. How about the rays guaranteeing the cost of construction? they won't because they know it is a bunch of BS. You say have the city build new parking garages, WHO pays for that? Oh yea ,TAXPAYERS living in St.Pete. And if you think it is wrong for the people to have a say in the sale of their public property, then maybe I'll sell your house and use the money to build me a business and it would generate sales tax and commercial property tax revenue and that would be better for the city. And finally, you sound like just the perfect fan to be stuck by at a game. You think cursing at players and heckling opposing fans to the point of being a jerk is OK. What an idiot!

[SS]

Maybe they should put a refinery where the Trop is now.

[Mike]

I love it! When people think Tampa Bay means Tampa. I believe the whole area is called Tampa Bay since we all share the bay as well. I have never heard Tampa called Tampa Bay!

Tampa is crappy, and downtown is a ghost town after 5. Downtown ST Pete blows it away!

I love the idea of an outdoor stadium, go any where in August in most of the US, it is hot, stop your whining, and attend more games!!!!

[Ben]

It is still amazing to me how ignorant people are. Once again, please remember that the ONLY reason any taxpayer gets ANY say in this decision is because of a sale of public land. Thats it! People who complain about the heat need to get real. Florida is not the hottest place in the country in the summer. Try going going to games in St. Louis, Anaheim, Atlanta, Cincinnati, even Chicago at certain times when the air temp is 100 degrees or more. And at least in those midwest parks the humidity is overbearing! 1) The new stadium will have shaded covering (which no other park has) 2) The whole baseball experience is sweating, drinking beer, eating a hotdog, rooting for your team, cursing at players on the other team (if you are within shouting distance) and finding other teams fans and heckling them out of their seats! It is not supposed to be an elite event! Don't be so soft. Anyway, the money once again is not coming from any tax anyone living in St. Pete really deals with. The only kind of tax need is pushing the expiration date of the hotel tax back many years. How many St. Pete people stay in a hotel in St. Pete?? The 150 million does initially go to the stadium. The additional 300 million does not because its expected to come from the redevelopment of the trop area, which will not all come at once. The trop sits empty a lot of the year. And because Fergs is the only thing near it, it doesn't matter. The city stands to make a fortune redeveloping that area so it can be used and generating revenue year round. The new park will spur new sports bars downtown (Fergs already said it would relocate down there) that will be in business only because the park is there and these places will do great business all year round for the other local teams' seasons. Also, because the Rays have recently decided to hold spring training elsewhere like every other team, Al Lang is essentially nothing but a cost to the city.

The only real reason for pause is the parking issue. But I do have something to say to that also! :) Its already pretty tough to find parking on busy nights...maybe the city can take some of those ugly vacant lots sitting around and put 4 and 5 story cheap garages. Or maybe all that traffic will encourage a real look at mass transit thats not bus dependent?

[Dave]

Selig is a putz. He's lobbying for an owner.

That said, I think a baseball stadium makes economic sense for a community in a way no football stadium ever will. You're talking about 81 dates drawing approx. 30,000 people. That's the equivalent of a small city coming to town almost twice a week all year long!

The main thing is to get all those people out of their cars in a way that encourages them to spend a little money outside the stadium. Do that and there's no way it can't benefit a community.

The Trop doesn't do that. It's a parking lot next to the expressway. The new stadium would do that.

I personally watched downtown Baltimore continue to blossom after they built Camden Yards. Downtown Cleveland also added to its gains after Jacobs Field was built. Both of these parks generate foot traffic. Downtown St. Pete is similar in that it has come a long way. The proposed park would build on these gains by getting more people walking past local restaurants and shops on their way to and from games.

It seems like a winning idea and a very nice architectural design, regardless of what Selig says.

[Philip]

The Rays should move to Vegas.

[mlm]

Jim,
Thanks for reading. I don't want to speak for all Tampa people, but Tampa's downtown is built on big business and industry. We don't have a Vinoy Park. But we have Channelside, the Ship Terminal, The Forum, the Performing Arts Center. Go 10 minutes one direction and you have Hyde Park/SoHo. The other direction is Ybor. Maybe that doesn't appeal to people over the age of 35, but the people moving into this community and have the income to spend on things like ball games and not kid's braces are under 35. Like it or not, major metro areas have things like downtown ballparks (SF, SD, Seattle, Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore, Atlanta, Houston). If St. Pete doesn't want to be in that group, that is fine.

[steve oneal]

QB1, if the rays have an idea and no concrete plan, then how can they say that parking will bring in 55m? When asked by the city how they could do it, their answer " we don't know. That's why we want to start negotiations so you can help us figure it out". When asked by tourism board for studies to back up their claims that new stadium would bring in certain amounts of revenue their answer "we are hiring someone to get those studies done". They are just throwing out pie in the sky numbers with no facts to substantiate their position. Sound like a bunch of LIARS to me. The 450m price tag(which will go up before they even start)is if the stadium was built with cash. The stadium will have to be financed and then you will have to PAY INTEREST on top of construction cost. The rays 150m contribution is not up front money, but will be paid over years as rent. another spin by the rays. If you are a real sports fan you go to watch the game. You just need basic comfortable accomodations, not the ritz, you are not moving in just there to watch a game.

[Sal]

Calling St Pete's downtown "most dynamic in Florida" is the biggest joke in the world. Ever heard of Miami?

[Paul]

I'm surprised at Bobby Fenton's comments. The only reason anyone is ripping Tampa is because Tampa people are accusing St. Pete of not supporting the Rays/refusing to build a stadium.

As someone who has an office in downtown Tampa AND downtown St. Pete (and who lives in Tampa) - I can tell you that there is NO COMPARISON. St. Pete has a nice, lively downtown - good restaurants, good bars, live music - you name it. Tampa has nothing like it (if you count Channelside as downtown its still a weak imitation of St. Pete).

You need to get out Bobby - first, try to find a business that's open past 5:30 pm in downtown Tampa. Then cross the bridge and see what a real downtown looks like. (And I don't mean Clearwater, though its downtown is nicer than Tampa's too).

[Gaston]

Well, Dr_Dug's mature cooments definitely carry a lot of weight. Mature and thought out. Dug, calling everyone an assclown does not lend your opinions any credibility.

[Chip McMahan]

Hear ye. Hear ye. King Bud has spoken. Now you will bow in submission for, King Bud is benevolent in his largeness. But smite you He will if you are not quick enough to prostrate yourself. More gifts for the King. He has offered us an All Star Game. That must be worth billions. We, tiny as we are, should appreciate Him in his magnitude. The key to the city is a good start. Proclamations must be made. Mr. Milwaukee Himself has taken an interest.
Need more be said?

[mlm]

Here's my question; lets say the Rays develop this plan and push the time table back to 2015. Is there still the same anger by anti-waterfront ball park people?
And Dr_Dug? You're the best. Keep rolling, my friend.

[Barack Hussein Obama]

James is correct
IT IS HOT AS He!! outside people
and sitting in the muggy heat of summer at night is still hot!
No one will go to outdoor games, ask the Clearwater and Dunedin Minors