Deadline day

There's going to be a lot of rumors, a lot of speculation, a lot of wild and crazy ideas tossed around today, and some actual legitimate trade discussion.

We'll start this morning where we left off last night (well, about six hours ago) and suggest you check back throughout the day as the 4 p.m. deadline nears:

The Rays are hoping to complete a deal today for Pirates OF Jason Bay, but their chances apparently could depend as much as anything on whether the Red Sox, Marlins and Pirates are able to complete a complicated three-way deal that was under heavy discussion late Wednesday. The key element is Manny Ramirez going to the Marlins, which in terms of finances and contractual issues makes it rather tricky, and unpredictable.

But if that part get works out, Bay would end up going to the Red Sox, which would really be tough for the Rays because instead of having the two-time All-Star playing for them they'd see him playing against them down the stretch. (Much like Xavier Nady ended up with the Yankees.)

Obviously the Rays could make a deal with the Pirates on their own (and the Red Sox and Marlins could make their own deal, or find a different third team). But the reason the Pirates want to be involved in the three-way deal is the potential return for Bay would be greater, and there is a chance they could unload more of their pieces if the deal is expanded, say to include LHP John Grabow and SS Jack Wilson.

As being reported now, the Pirates could end up with Marlins OF Jeremy Hermida (a young potential star) and two or three good prospects, though there are numerous conflicting reports. Though a deal was not completed, it sounded as if the Rays and Pirates were talking more about a package of prospects, and the Rays have been consistent in saying they would not include their elite ones, such as SS Reid Brignac, LHP David Price and RHPs Wade Davis and Jeremy Hellickson.

The Rays could end up being the Pirates' fallback plan if the Red Sox and Marlins things falls through. But what makes it really fascinating is that the Rays aren't going to just sit around and wait as they also have other options, which include Cincinnati's Adam Dunn, Philadelphia's Jayson Werth and others, possibly Minnesota's Craig Monroe. So while they might want to see first what happens with Bay, they will also pursue others, which could lead to quite a rush as the deadline approaches.

As for relievers, it seems the one the Rays really want is Colorado's Brian Fuentes, and the edge-of-contention Rockies were still wrestling Wednesday night with whether to trade him, and what the price would be if they do.

More to come ...

- MARC TOPKIN

(Pictured: Jason Bay, AP; Adam Dunn, Getty Images. Click to enlarge.)

Comments

[B M N]

Looks like the season is going to slip away for the Rays..... they really needed to make a trade of some kind for some hitting....Geez....the Yankees and Redsox made moves and will blow past the Rays in no time.....was fun while it lasted!!!

[Morgan]

Not sure if being called an "idiot" makes me want to post updates, but I will anyway. Up until the last poster I have enjoyed chatting with you Rays' fans...knowledgeable and realistic group...Good luck the rest of the way

FROM PITTSBURGH POST-GAZETTE BLOG
UPDATE 2:24 p.m.: Right back to Pirates and Tampa Bay. Source says same two names as before, shortstop Reid Brignac and pitcher Jeff Niemann, though the Pirates would not mind upgrading to Wade Davis as the pitcher because he profiles as more of a surefire starter.

UPDATE 3 p.m.: One hour to go. If anyone other than Tampa is in the mix for Bay, it would be a stunning surprise. Have not heard of another team all day. ... Oh, and just got a call from a baseball operations guy from another team, and he reiterated the common view today that the Pirates have their price -- not just for Bay -- and are not varying from it. Makes one wonder if the Pirates really wanted to move Bay, or they just wanted to see if they could land something really good.

[Brandon]

the rays are an elite team now although they are probably a year or so away from what they thought finishing fourth or fifth in the upcoming years is ridiculous. Although they might not match up to the uptown spenders in new york or the red sox. Pitching is what wins championships and the Rays have the best pitching and bullpen in their division BY FAR! Possible first seed in playoffs most likely second seed.

thats is an idiot talking above

[Morgan]

Off the Pirate Blog:

1:39 p.m.: Just spoke to someone in Tampa, and the Rays are not necessarily out of this, contrary to much else that is being said.

Hmmm...

[Ben]

I not only have that feeling Ryan, but I am sure of it. I am also quite sure that the Rays will finish 3rd in the AL East this season and 4th or 5th next year. Go Buccaneers!

[Ryan]

Does anyone get the feeling the Rays won't make a deadline deal because they have already hit their goals for this season (above 500, maybe make playoffs) ?

It is clear we have a glaring need for a bat who can play right field, yet 2 hours till the deadline.... nothing. Meanwhile other teams have been making deals to get guys they need.

[Ray F]

Rediculous...

The Stankees are scrambling; the Red Sux are about to fall apart and we just sit back and watch???

ughhhhhhhhhh... somebody needs to get Vince Naimoli out of the war room. He obviously poked his head in for a quick look at the new digs and maybe to pick up his overdue w-2 form cause this sounds like a Naimoli/LaMar move.

[justin]

Are you serious about these "updates"? Paging Marc Topkin..

[Morgan]

ESPN says Rays are out of Bay deal...

Which of course means that Bay will get traded to the Rays probably for Bringac, Hellickson/Davis, and Niemann

really whaen has Stark ever been right :)

[Ray F]

7 minutes ago ESPN.com say Rays unlikely to make a deal.

i could also see Francoeur / Ohman deal if bay falls through....

[Bradley Mofsky]

I'd like to see Jeff Francoeur from the Braves in The Rays Right Field. The Braves would like to see Jeff Niemann on the hill as there new Starting Pitcher.

[Impatient Fan]

TOPKIN PLEASE TELL US SOMETHING

[justin]

uh, where is the more to come?

[j dello]

well were in talks with both teams...and it makes sense especially if all this manny hooplah is just that...Dunn would most likely DH here, as he is rumored to, and the Bay deal was rumored to be Bringac and Niemann, with the pirates wanting Davis / Hellickson instead of Niemann....The bosox deal fall through and Tampa gets bay with the deal already on the table....that still leaves Hellickson / Davis in the system with really only room for one in the rotation next year....that gives us a deal for Dunn and the Reds are gaga over Hellickson. why not make both

[Ray F]

Whoa... JDO,

That's a tall glass of water. Trades like that could get a guy killed. We would be a completely different team.

While we're at it... let's get Jimmy Rollins, Albert Pujols, and Josh Hamilton too. j/k

Dunn + Bay + Rays = Playoffs 1st/2nd seed

TAKE BAY PLEASEEEEEE!!! GIVE THEM BRIGNAC AND DAVIS!!!! I WANT TO WIN!!!!!!

[JDO]

what if the pirates are loading up all this manny talk just to raise the price on the bay to bay deal....trying to land davis or hellickson....im pretty sure the manny deal will fall through and the buccos will trade bay to the rays.....THEN the rays unload hellickson or davis with perez to the reds for Dunn.....Bay would play right on an everyday scenero and Dunn would DH.....

[Elite]

Ray F, the problem with comparing the Rays "top 4" prospects to Brazelton, McClung, Hall, Waechter, and Dukes is that none of those guys were as highly regarded. Not even Dukes and Brazelton. Dukes would have been, but scouts didn't think as highly of him knowing that his off field stuff and personality would interfere with his reaching his ceiling.

[Demetrios]

Nice try get-smart or whoever you are. Keep making an idiot of yourself.

[Jose Canseco]

I'm available!

[Ray F]

Also, think about how often a great prospect fizzles out.

Elijah Dukes, Doug Waechter, Seth McClung, Toby Hall, Dewon Brazelton...

I would give up any of those guys in hind-sight and you have to trust the fact that out of the 4 or 5 "elite" prospects, most will fizzle out. That's the risk other teams take when giving up proven talent. We need to make a move. We need a guy who can play RF and fill in at DH when Floyd sits out and let Hinske play right.

Hell... ship Floyd too.

[Demetrios]

I hope they get nice looking young man who fit good in tight pants.

[Manny Ramirez]

What about me? If I come to Tampa you guys mind if I take piss in fish-tank?
It's just me being me

[Demetrios]

Dunn alone is not a great move. With another bat it's ok. Dunn is an upgrade over Hinske/Aybar/Gomes/Floyd, so why not upgrade? 65-70% of the pitchers are RH. Yes, we also need a RH bat!

[Tom]

Richard Jarzynka - perhaps you haven't noticed that the Rays have the second best record in the AL and 3rd best in baseball. That achievement is from developing and protecting prospects, while adding affordable pieces (Hinske & Floyd low-profile FAs, Garza/Bartlett in trade). The Rays don't have the luxury of say...adding $12.4M in salary for a 36 yr old catcher

The Rays are offering GOOD prospects, not ELITE prospects - but, given that the Rays have the best farm system in baseball, our good prospects are still better than what most teams have in their systems.

[Barry Bonds]

Will work for 'roids...

[Marc]

FYI, Dunn's OBP is higher than anyone on the Rays.

He has also drawn more walks and hit more home runs than anyone in baseball over the last 2-3 years.

[Mark]

I'd rather lock Bartlett up once his contract is up. You would have to figure that Tim Beckham is the SS of the future and Brignac's stock might be at its highest value now. I say you include him in any trade and Bartlett can get us to Beckham. I like the Dunn idea but we really need to push for Bay. I'd say the highest priority is getting Bay and Fuentes. Throw the C.Monroe stuff out, he's very inconsistent.

[Say NO to Dunn]

the above should say Gomes and GROSS ... not Hinske [so much]

[Scott]

Ya'Zhynka,

If I were running the show I would offer Brignac & either Hellickson or Niemann. I'm not exactly sure what the Pirates would want in return but I do know they are looking for a shortstop to eventually replace Wilson.

[Say NO to Dunn]

Dunn would be a DUMB move --- the guy hits LH pitching about as well as Gomes and Hinske

I don't care how many HR's the guy hits ... give me a guy that gets on base consistently and fields his position over a guy who would have been a great addition to "Hit Show"

[Demetrios]

I have no problem with Dunn as long as the price is right. Even though he is a lefty, it upgrades our DH position. He does get on base and can play OF. Would be a good compliment for a part time Rocco. Yes we need a RH hitter but don't forget that the majority of the pitchers out there are RH. It's a decent move as long as we do something else because we really need two additional bats, not just one!

ISN'T THIS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It feels like NFL draft day!

[RFN]

Why is everyone piling on Brignac? He played 4 games and got 10 ABs. So, he didn't get a hit - big deal - the whole team was struggling. Plus, the pressure of replacing "our MVP" (Joe Maddon's words) put EXTREME pressure on him in the field. He moved through the minors with similar numbers at the same pace as Longoria. The Rays have declared him off-limits for a reason, they know that after a full season (maybe 2) at Durham, that he will be ready to play SS in St. Pete (about the time Bartlett's contract is up). Remember, we're small market and the Front Office is already making plans beyond the key players we've already signed long-term. If we can get a long-term Bartlett deal, then, ok - let Brignac go. If not, he stays in same category as Price and Davis.

Also - leave Edwin Jackson alone. He's 24 yrs old with filthy stuff. He's won 7 games and should have a few more (both of Percy's blown saves were EJ's) and he's finally gaining poise and mound presence. If he leaves here, he will be someone else's Matt Garza, a strong #2, with a real possibility of becoming a #1. Our rotation is the envy of EVERY team in baseball based on talent, potential, age and salary.

[Marc]

Rumor has it that Steinbrenner is being offered a job in the McCain administration, if he is elected pres., because in the interest of continuing spending money on projects that are dead ends like his predecessor Bush, George, whose current team has over $209,000,000 in payroll is attempting to push past the Rays.. a team who has never won more than 70 games in a season and is fortunate to put 20,000 people in the Trop per game.

And Dunn sounds stupid?

[Ivan Rodriguez]

I hope to add to my 5 homeruns in Yankee Stadium. Just when you thought the Yankees couldn't get any older, I come in to the mix.

[Ya'Zhynka]

Scott,

What Tampa prospects would you part with in order to keep Jason Bay from going to the Red Sox?

[Richard.Jarzynka]

How can Tampa expect to acquire a player like Bay when they are unwilling to part with any of their real prospects? If Davis, Hellickson, Brignac,and Price are all off limits, then what do they have to offer?

[JJ Jones]

" I will be a Yankee next year so I'll bein your slef proclaimed "pit" several times next year scraping the catwalk!"

Adam Dunn does not sound too bright.

[Adam Dunn]

Tampa Bay,
Don't worry about me bringing my 40+ homers 100+ RBI's to your half filled cellar. Now that Griffey is in Chi Town I'm staying here in Cincy. I will be a Yankee next year so I'll bein your slef proclaimed "pit" several times next year scraping the catwalk! Good luck w/ Baldelli! Congrats on your impending 3rd place in the AL East finish.

[Dunn Deal]

Why is everyone so down on Adam Dunn? He has 32 homers and a .385 OBP. He has hit 40 or more homers four years in a row and is on pace for 40+ again this year. He strikes out alot, but so what, he gets on base alot and drives in 100+ every year. He'd be a great DH for the Rays. Not exactly what they are looking for, but he would absolutely upgrade the offense.

[Andrew Friedman]

Man... my hands are starting to sweat and my butt's getting numb. I better stop sitting on my hands otherwise I'm going to cut off the circulation to my hands.

[Scott]

I really doubt the Red Sox are going to trade Manny. These talks happen every year and when it's over Manny & Red Sox management kiss and make up. Besides, Manny can veto any trade and do you really think he wants to end up playing for the Marlins where they don't come close to filling their stadium? If Manny ever leaves Boston, it's going to be to a team where the city is crazy about their baseball team and he can be the man.

I'm a huge Rays fan, and would like to see Rocco back up with the team, but I don't have confidence that he will be the right handed power hitting outfielder we need. In my opinion, Jason Bay is the answer and would be a perfect fit.

My guess is that the three way deal with Boston, Pitt & Florida will fall through and we will end up with Bay.

[bob]

I don't think trading for a National Leaguer is such a good idea. 1st of all they play in an inferior league. And then of course they would have to get used to pitchers/hitters in a new league. Stick to tried and true AL players who've been through the pennant race grind.

[bob]

I don't think trading for a National Leaguer is such a good idea. 1st of all they play in an inferior league. And then of course they would have to get used to pitchers/hitters in a new league. Stick to tried and true AL players who've been through the pennant race grind.

[Marc]

Morgan,

No way Price will be in any deal, and I doubt they will try to deal Hellickson either. So it's probably Niemann at best and probably no deal as a result for Bay.

I think Bay is obviously a coveted player, but not so much in having him for 54 games this season or so and next year, then he's most likely gone.

The Rays have been a long time coming in drafting and developing these "blue chip" pitchers, and for a team that has never won more than 70 games in a season, I don't think they will make a deal like the Bucs want, even though the fever is raging for a playoff spot this year.

[Morgan]

Dave you might be right on Manny...but if he keeps balking, then the Bucs just deal with the Rays...
I think this happens unless the Rays step in and offer Brignac, one of the 4 aforementioned pitchers and another prospect.
The reason I say that is because FLA needs a bat and will take Manny for basically no $$$...BoSox want Manny out and if you compare the numbers, this year, Bay and Manny are a toss-up with Bay being better on "D"(although I would never compare their careers), so the don't lose much "O"
And the Bucs need pitching prospects and FLA and BOS, from reports I am reading are willing to give up 3-4 + Hermida. It is a win-win-win.

However, David Price or even Hellickson would make the Bucs think twice.

All I am saying is the Rays will have to pony up for Bay because I think the FLA-BOS-PIT deal is done except for PIT waiting for the response from TB

Oh..and Adam Dunn...seriously?!?

[JJ Jones]

Get Bay. Get Bay. Give them Brignac and Neimann. But do not include Wade Davis. You will regret it.

[Marc]

Dave.. you might be right about Epstein.. he's pretty shrewd.