Deadline day

There's going to be a lot of rumors, a lot of speculation, a lot of wild and crazy ideas tossed around today, and some actual legitimate trade discussion.

We'll start this morning where we left off last night (well, about six hours ago) and suggest you check back throughout the day as the 4 p.m. deadline nears:

The Rays are hoping to complete a deal today for Pirates OF Jason Bay, but their chances apparently could depend as much as anything on whether the Red Sox, Marlins and Pirates are able to complete a complicated three-way deal that was under heavy discussion late Wednesday. The key element is Manny Ramirez going to the Marlins, which in terms of finances and contractual issues makes it rather tricky, and unpredictable.

But if that part get works out, Bay would end up going to the Red Sox, which would really be tough for the Rays because instead of having the two-time All-Star playing for them they'd see him playing against them down the stretch. (Much like Xavier Nady ended up with the Yankees.)

Obviously the Rays could make a deal with the Pirates on their own (and the Red Sox and Marlins could make their own deal, or find a different third team). But the reason the Pirates want to be involved in the three-way deal is the potential return for Bay would be greater, and there is a chance they could unload more of their pieces if the deal is expanded, say to include LHP John Grabow and SS Jack Wilson.

As being reported now, the Pirates could end up with Marlins OF Jeremy Hermida (a young potential star) and two or three good prospects, though there are numerous conflicting reports. Though a deal was not completed, it sounded as if the Rays and Pirates were talking more about a package of prospects, and the Rays have been consistent in saying they would not include their elite ones, such as SS Reid Brignac, LHP David Price and RHPs Wade Davis and Jeremy Hellickson.

The Rays could end up being the Pirates' fallback plan if the Red Sox and Marlins things falls through. But what makes it really fascinating is that the Rays aren't going to just sit around and wait as they also have other options, which include Cincinnati's Adam Dunn, Philadelphia's Jayson Werth and others, possibly Minnesota's Craig Monroe. So while they might want to see first what happens with Bay, they will also pursue others, which could lead to quite a rush as the deadline approaches.

As for relievers, it seems the one the Rays really want is Colorado's Brian Fuentes, and the edge-of-contention Rockies were still wrestling Wednesday night with whether to trade him, and what the price would be if they do.

More to come ...

- MARC TOPKIN

(Pictured: Jason Bay, AP; Adam Dunn, Getty Images. Click to enlarge.)

Comments

[JeffC]

Dunn is a lefty we need a righty bat.

[Dave]

STOP with the "Bay is only hitting .193 v lefties this year" talk (true by the way).

JUST STOP.

His entire career he has hit lefties betetr than righties, this is nothing more than a blip on the radar.

His OPS over that three year span v lefties was about .950.

By the way, am I the only one who fells Epstein has little to no intention of actually trading Manny, and is simply trying to keep Bay out of a Rays uniform?

Werth mashes lefties, and would be a good fit here, he can play.

Dunn . . . eh . . .

[Marc]

Morgan,

How about we package Niemann, Brignac, and throw in our starter Jackson in the deal. And to sweeten the pot, you can have Hammel and Miller too. And if that's not acceptable, maybe Friedman can toss in batting coach Henderson and Jonny Gomes.

[Morgan]

Marc,
As a guy who has watched every Pirate game this year, I can assure you Bay is not hitting .190 vs. Lefties-- he is right handed...and you don't get the RBIs he has hitting near the Mendoza line with RISP...
And Rocco Baldelli or Jason Werth is no where near Jason Bay...
If you all have 4 quality pitchers in the minors + the studs you have in the majors, why so reluctant to trade 1 of them away????
In 1991 we traded Moises Alou for Zane Smith...was Moises Alou a great player for years to come...yeah. But zane got us to te playoffs and you know what...even with Moises, we would not have gotten back.
WIN NOW!!

[Ben]

Dave,
Baldelli is not better than Jason Bay. There is no such thing as Rocco Baldelli being 100% either. When he is 100% that's like most players at 65%. I would not be excited about the return of a softy like Rocco.

[Chris Hall]

Please don't get Dunn!!! He brings down your lineup so much!!!

[Ken]

T -- the Sox with Bay are still a weaker team than the Sox with Manny. If they get Bay and we don't, I still think the Rays are the better team, and I'd rather see us lose a shot at Bay than give up too much of our pitching depth at AA and AAA.

[Marc]

Bay is hitting .190 against lefties and I keep seeing that he hits .216 with RISP. Anyone know if those stats are correct?

[Ken]

Dave -- I love Rocco, but you can't count on him staying healthy. Yes, he should be called up, but we should only expect him to be used for spot duty at DH and late-inning substitution in RF, not an everyday starter.

[Ken]

Getting Bay would be a coup because he is a good character guy to go along with the skills. And the Rays' need for a right-handed hitting right fielder doesn't go away next year or even the year after that, so Bay could be a long- term solution (though he'll be expensive to re-sign after next year). I have no problem giving up Brignac for him; the question is what pitcher do they want to package him with? Davis, Price, McGee, or Hellickson -- NO WAY. Neimann, Dohman, Talbot -- SURE.

[Dave]

It is all about Rocco Baldelli's health at this point. If the front office thinks he is ready, then he is your right handed hitting right fielder.

At 100%, Rocco is a better all around player than Jason Bay.

Looks like Ken Griffey is going to the White Sox, so Dunn may be staying in Cincy.

[T]

Brignac showed he is not ready for prime time anytime soon early this month, so he would seem to be logical trade bait, but the big question is are the Rays ready to make a deal to block another team (i.e., the Bosox) from improving themselves too? Bay to the Sox would be worse than no Bay to Rays

[Trader Lane]

The Rays have to be willing to give up some prospects -- that is if they're serious about making a run this year. The season's more than half over, boys, this is big-stakes poker at the men's table. If you get somebody who's going to be a free agent, so be it. Play to win. This year. Prove to us that The Lamar era (aka Pro Crastination) is over once and for all.

[Dane]

As much as I don't like the thought of giving up top prospects, you have to seize the opportunity to make the playoffs when it is there. It's been clear over the last few weeks that the Rays need another bat and a trade may put a spark into the team.

[Marc]

Jayson Werth?! Seems like a stretch.. batting average over 6 seasons of .262, 47 total home runs, 195 rbi's, and never more than 79 hits in a season.

Probably wouldn't have to give much up for him, but could he really fill the need for a right handed bat?

[Morgan]

Hellickson and Brignac seems like a reasonable price for a perennial All-Star (yes, Bay should have been an all-star this year). Bay will help the Rays win now...not like you all don't have pitching. You want Bay as a Ray (Kind of catchy) or as a Sox?
P.S. I'm cheering for you guys...gives hope to us Pirates fans!

[Bill]

Agree about Brignac. Bartlett is young and is the man for a long time.....with Beckham waiting in the wings(although I think Beckham will end up being an outfielder--Too big for MLB SS)

[Justin]

Why is Brignac not on the table? He's not taking Bartlett's job anytime soon and Beckham will be waiting in the wings in a couple of years. Hopefully Andrew is just putting on his poker face but if you have to give up Brignac to get Bay so be it. How nice would it be if they got Bay and screwed up a Manny trade?

[Reds Ron]

What would the Rays give up for Dunn? If he's not resigned you get 2 first round draft picks, so they would need to give up something better than that. I think Dunn would perform better for a new team, he is too comfortable with the Reds. He's been on fire since the Toronto GM's comments about his passion for the game. Reds need a true lead off hitter, a right handed bat, CF, LF, SS, 1B, or C.