Boston columnist: Tampa Bay market a "disaster"

The Rays not only had more than 6,000 unsold seats for Monday's opening game of the showdown series with Boston, but  - with the stakes the highest - it was the smallest crowd for the seven games they've had with the Red Sox this season.

As much as the lack of attendance, and support for the home team among those who do come out, has been discussed locally, it is becoming a bigger national story.

One veteran Boston columnist, Steve Buckley of the Herald, was so unimpressed by Monday's turnout, he wondered that if the Rays make the playoffs "shouldn’t their games be moved to a place where fans actually care about the product?''

Here is an excerpt from and link to Buckley's column:

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - Hurricane Ike forced Major League Baseball to send the Houston Astros and Chicago Cubs to Milwaukee to play a couple of neutral-site games.

Now it’s time for MLB to take care of another disaster: The so-called Tampa-St. Petersburg “baseball market.”

Seriously, if the plucky, exciting Tampa Bay Rays make the playoffs, shouldn’t their games be moved to a place where fans actually care about the product?

ESPN.com's Jayson Stark also made his points about the Rays and the crowd:

"They certainly played Monday like a team that looked exhausted. But it wasn't as if there was NO good news for the Rays. At least they failed to draw 30,000 people for their biggest home game in history. (Announced paid crowd: 29,772.)

So why was that such good news, you ask? Because they've won 18 straight home games when the attendance was 30,000 or higher. (Last loss: Opening Day.) So at least that streak is still intact."

The Boston Globe wondered: "Is the clock striking midnight in Tampa? as Nick Cafardo wrote:|

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla.  - Attaboy, Scott Kazmir.

Great way to set the tone for your team.

First pitch, in the immortal words of Bob Uecker, was "just a little bit outside." Nine straight balls later, there were two men on, setting up a three-run jack by David Ortiz. Then came a one-out solo shot by Mike Lowell.

In one inning at Tropicana Field, where the Red Sox had lost six straight games, they sent an emphatic message to the Tampa Bay Rays and Kazmir last night: We can beat you, and we can beat you in your home ballpark.

Kazmir, who still hasn't taken that turn toward elite status that Jon Lester has, is still throwing far too many pitches. And when the Rays got a run on Akinori Iwamura's solo homer in the third off Daisuke Matsuzaka, what did Kazmir do? He immediately gave up a solo shot to Jason Bay in the fourth to make it a 5-1 game. And then came insult to injury when Jason Varitek struck for a two-run blast.

Comments

[Sarasota's best]

The Saint Petersburg market is great!!! We are doing absolutelly fantastic down here!! Best place in the USA to live and see Baseball. GO RAYS!!

[Rayzzzzz]

Here is my two cents!!!

Florida in general is a transplant town....There are more Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Braves, and Phillies fans around than there are Rays fans. That is due to the fact that half of the MLB plays here for spring training games and there are Minor League Teams right in our area. (Tampa Yankees, Clearwater Phillies, ect.)

The Rays have only been around for 10 years, and should take a few years for the Trop to be full. I have about 9 or 10 friends that grew up in Tampa and loved the yankees and phillies just because they had spring training ball here.

Now those friends have burned the Yankee and Phillies gear and now sporting the new Rays logo. It will take time!!! So ease up and please don't put stupid Boston writers on this site. If we wanted to hear what they have to say, we would go to their blogs and websites.

TAMPA BAY IT IS TIME TO JUMP ON THE BANDWAGON TO KEEP THIS TEAM HERE!!!

[Terri]

You know I am the only one working in my household - luckily I do not have many bills but times are tough, people are losing their homes - some people are buying food instead of meds and just the opposite. I think a baseball game right now for most would be a luxury most could not afford.

[Joe]

Hmm....anybody catch these stats from 1010am this morning.... So much for Red Sox Nation for years and years

Attendance:

1960-69 = 14k,10k,9k,11k,10k,8k,10k,21k,23k,22k,
1970-79 = 19k,20k,19k,19k,19k,21k,23k,25k,28k,29k

THE FIRST YEAR YOU AVERAGED OVER 30k WAS IN 1999!!!!!!!

Where were you BANDWAGONERS during the BAD YEARS...... OHH YEAH...YOU WERENT EVEN BORN!!!!!! And when you were able to UNDERSTAND baseball you guys didnt care...Suddenly it was COOL to be a Sox fan...GO BUY YOUR PINK "B" HATS!!!!!!
The Rays have been around for how many years????

SO MUCH FOR THE "NATION".....more like a Nation of Bandwagon jumping, wannabes!!!!

[matt]

if anybody forgot BOTH nights there was a major road closure. Monday 75 was shut down and tuesday 19 was shut down

[Go Rays!]

Don't forget, not only does Bostonians have a higher income. They draw from 6 states around them! My sister in law's family are huge Red Sox fans, they live in New Hampshire. That whole area up there is Red Sox crazy AS THEY SHOULD BE. Six states and it's one of the biggest cities in the country. Another reader made a great point. Why do the Red Sox writers care? Because all they want to do is be mean. What a shock, a Red Sox fan being rude.

[Eric]

He is right, the market sucks, I cannot think of a team that has done more to get butts in the seats than the rays. (free parking, tickets under $10, etc) You will lose the team and it will break my heart.

And BOSTON FANS, TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN PROBLEMS, STOP BEING SO SMUG YOU THINK YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. I HAVE BEEN TO FENWAY, SEASON TICKETS HOLDERS SELL THEIR TICKETS TO MAKE A BUCK, YOU ARE NOT THAT MUCH HOLIER THAN THOU.

whats the avg. salary in Boston compared to the TB area?

Probably not even close.

I jobs getting outsourced so I'll be unemployed in a month. I was going to go to the game tonight but when i found this out it changed my mind. I can't afford to go to any games.

PS. I have a 4 yr degree and i might have to leave this town to find a decent job.

[bigbbfan]

Ok, I doubt if you will be able to weed your way through all the comments. But here is my 2 cents. I am a 20 game season ticket holder. In addition to that I have attended 10 other games and 5 pre-season games. Needless to say the economy is bad. And I am saving my pennys for the post-season games. Which cost $1070.00 for 2 tickets in the infield/upper deck. For me the decision was easy...miss work & go to more regular season games or save my vacation time and money and go to the playoffs. This is a no-brainer. So don't give me a bunch of bull for not going in September. BTW ... I'll be at The Trop tonight (Wed), Friday, Saturday and Sunday ... GO RAYS!!!

[F you Boston]

WHy is Boston so obsessed with us? We don't have the hsitory that the Red Sox have. We have a team that is only 10 years old and half of the peopel who live in Tampa have grown up as Yankees fans. Kiss my grits Boston.

[Todd]

So let me understand this, a columnist in Boston who knows nothing about the Tampa Bay Rays or their fans tries to tell us how it is?

I say someone is jealous and a bit scared of the new kids on the block.
I support the Rays in every way possible. They are giving us a summer to remember and I'll always be thankful for Baseball in Tampa Bay. GO RAYS!!

[JD]

Based on this huge list of comments, I would say that Tampa Bay is becoming somewhat of a "baseball town"...slowly, perhaps, but the seeds are being planted....
To the guy's who's Godson asked not to be brought back...did you take the time to talk to him during the game? Its the conversation that baseball allows you to have that makes it great - but its up to you to lead it fo a young kid (or hot chick that is going for the first time with you - ha)!!!

[RS]

I love coming to games, but my family won't come because we have had too many experiences with obnoxious fans who think only of themselves and don't respect the other people around them. If people want to be drunk and disorderly they should do it somewhere else. Some people actually want to show up to enjoy the game, not just to attend some sort of glorified tailgate party. You are driving away fans who would like to bring their families just to enjoy the sport of baseball rather than the sport of drinking and cursing.

[GoRays!]

I'm tired of talking attendance. Attendance is up from last year in case anyone noticed. We are finally winning, finally up a game on September 17!! And all that comes up is attendance. We had 29,000 on a Monday night, and we are ridiculed? There's gotta more for this area to talk about. Talk about what you've always talked about. Football. The papers, the radio, the television. You can give football all the attention you have. The Rays fans are completely used to it. Give a training camp interview 3x more time than a Rays win. Talk endlessly all week about whether the Bucs won last Sunday and what they will do this Sunday. Analyze every move every one of the 11 players made over every detailed play. We don't mind. We've watched and listened to it for 11 years now. Of course after hardly giving the Rays the time of day -- makes sure after over analyzing the Bucs, all 17 of the top college teams, and high school football, feel free to chime in with "Nobody goes to the Rays games."

It might also have something to do with the fact that Yankees and Red Sox fans won't give up their allegiance to their team 1300 miles away. They seem to show up nine games a year. Why not, just a change, just for something new, START BLAMING THEM. Don't blame the Rays fan who comes up with enough money to take his family of five to 3-4 games a season.

[Ernie]

30,000 people, plus, in attendance at ANY Rays game is very good. Most of the professional sports teams in FL don't
have good attendance records. Has the national news media investigated this fact? Just don't pick on the Rays for its lack of attendance. Don't worry. Tropicana Field will be filled for the playoff games provided the cost for seats is reasonable. Otherwise, you'll see less people than 30,000 in attendance let alone a full house.

[Just another idiot Rays fan]

Tampa Bay fans aren't turning out to see the Rays, so MLB should move the team? Fact is, the national media have worked so hard to label Tampa Bay as a perennial loser, no one else will come to a game when they're in town, either.

If Tampa Bay fans "don't deserve" such a great team, you'd think all the true fans in those more knowledgeable markets would show up to see them play, no? If nothing else, you'd expect to see the inverse of their home attendance woes when the Rays are on the road, playing in front of those fans supposedly more deserving of a quality team.

Guess what? You'd be wrong. The Rays are 26th in home attendance, and 24th in road attendance. For being such a talented team, there's apparently something about the Rays that keeps fans home in droves. Hmm -- what could it be? One to many Letterman Top 10 lists, perhaps?

Twelve months ago, wearing a Tampa Bay Devil Rays cap outside of Tampa-St. Petersburg exposed you to jeers, expressions of sympathy or quizzical looks from fans trying to figure out what kind of ironic statement you were trying to make. Suddenly, now, after 10 years of telling those casual fans they're losers and snickering any time they tried to talk about their team, it's time to yank the team away from them because they're not buying tickets.

Screw you, Steve Buckley. Screw you, Jayson Stark, and screw you too, Nick Cafardo. Screw anyone who's spent 10 years telling Tampa Bay their team sucked, and now tells us we're not good enough for them. I couldn't give a crap about what you think.

[Sox Suck]

How can you POSSIBLY say BOO to ownership? YOU didn't want a stadium? who cares...this team would still be a bottom-dweller if it weren't for the new ownership group. A team is no better than the minds in front office. Do you want to bring back Vince Naimoli?! Stop whining all you weak fans in this area. If you don't want to show up, don't. The stands will be just as loud with 20K Rays fans that CARE as it would be with 30k fairweather idiots who just want to show up to be seen. It's hard to expect more at this point from the Rays. Compare out SHORT 11 year history to the Sox..they have over a century working in their favor!!!! I am a die-hard fan because I was born here and love baseball. Until more of US are integrated into the baseball fabric of Tampa Bay, get used to 20k instead of 40k.

[Dr_Dug]

Here's one of the problems...after the Rays tried to fool us and ram a waterfront stadium down our throats....they may have soured alot of fans. And you don't have to go to the game to support the Rays...and at the same time, fans don't have to make the Owners any richer. Go Rays...BOO to their Ownership!! Next time maybe they'll listen to the people who said NO WATERFRONT STADIUM!!

[Mary]

First of all there are so many people with no jobs and no MONEY. It has nothing to do with the Rays. But you guys keep putting them down like they are a nothing team. Give them a chance. They are really trying, and being from Boston, I want the Rays to win the series. I am more of a Rays fan that I am a Red Sox fan.
But one must understand about the financial status that most of us are in right now, its a Rays game or pay your rent or feed your family. Times are tough for everyone.

When the Rays win the World Series, they would have really "earned" it considering 2nd lowest payroll near $43 million

[Sports Market Analyst]

Everyone does not understand the main problem with MLB. The reason teams like Rays, Marlins, A's are having low attendance is because of the salary disparity. Technically, many people consider that if teams like the Yankees, RedSox, Met's, WhiteSox, ect.. win it's because they bought the victory. That is the problem. If there was a salary cap like the NFL, NHL, & NBA and a equal revenue sharing, you ould see much, much better attendance.
All teams should share t.v. revenues and have a salary cap near $80 million (around the median current salaries of all team). If this was the case, you would see different teams winning each season like the NFL and attendance would rise.

opinions ?

[RaysBall]

That comment regarding changing the location of a potential Rays Playoff game to another location was and is purely a##inine and I'm a Red Sox fan.

Look, it is true that attendance is likely to be a concern in the future for this team if they continue to contend as they have this year but you have to look at two things (well I would anyway) and those are:

1) The Economy: No matter "who's fault it is", it's in the tank .... pure and simple. People in small market cities don't have the extra money to shell out to go to baseball games on a consistent basis, so you'll get a turn out like the Rays have had all season. Furthermore, let's look at some other small market teams ... like the Marlins and the Pirates .... they (and the Pirates most definitely do) have a history of winning (well in the Pirates case it was the early '90's) and yet they struggle to have stellar attendance. So please give the Rays and the fans that do show up a break.

2) Team History: This gets right back to both the Pirates and the Marlins ..... the Marlins last won a World Series in 2003 and yet they barely scrape by playing in the whatever it's called now stadium. The Pirates have been around since Cy Young played Little League baseball and have had a track record of abyssmal attendance since Bonds left and Congress than mandated that post season baseball shall never again be played in the Steel City. If you don't put a good product on the field consistently .... fans will look elsewhere. the current ownership has been fighting an uphill battle to undo the abhorrent deals that they inherited from the Naimoli dynasty (aka the "Dark Ages") and they've done alright. It remains to be seen if they can keep it up on a regular basis but if they do .... attendance will increase. How much? I don't know .... it will still all tie back into the national economy's impact here locally.

So play on Rays and for those fans that can afford to go .... keep going ... and from this Red Sox fan to the Boston writer who penned that article .... you're an illiterate dunceand hopefully you'll be covering the Pawtucket beat from here on out.

[Albert]

I've got three tickets for Wednesday. I'd go all three nights but I'm like a lot of fans in the Tampa Bay area - and that includes Tampa - I don't have the money or the time for three baseball games in one week. I'm paying $38.00 each for seats with a view of the bullpen. The other choices were outfield bleachers or the rafters. I'll take my big telephoto lens camera so I can see what I missed when I get home.

near $140 million salary RedSox

vs

near $44 million salary Rays

[Anthony]

"I saw way more Rays shirts than Sox."

Wow that is AMAZING, you guys must be so proud

[JB]

The problem getting fans here is simple.
80% of the people who live here came from somewhere else and already had a baseball team. Those of us born here had to choose a team outside Florida because there weren't any here until a few years ago. Team loyalty is a hard thing to change. So, when Boston comes so do their fans, when NY comes so do their fans....and there are more of them than those born here, and some born here chose those teans as kids and have a hard time when they come to play the Rays. It's the same with all the other major league teams that ever come here to play. There are fans from everywhere here and only a few real Ray fans. Someday, if they stay long enough there are kids growing up who will form an attachment to the Rays...as some say it is very difficult as a Ray fan to go to our own home games because of offensive behavior of the opposing team's fans who might even be your neighbors. It is the sickness that is overtaking a great part of the world right now, the us or them thinking. A serious disease.

[CC]

I worked the game last night and we were a lot busier than usual on a weekday night. And guess what? I saw way more Rays shirts than Sox.

Florida is what it is and I know a lot of die-hard Rays fans that just can't afford to go to the games. I'm one of them - do you really think I'd be working that crummy little concession stand if I could afford to go and just watch the game? At least when I work I get to see some of the game. I don't count on the attendance statistics but I still get to be there.

What is really sad is that the so-called Sox fans down here are really giving Boston a bad name. They are rude, inconsiderate, boorish, arrogant, condescending, and like to fight. If the true Red Sox fans in Boston were here they would be flat-out embarrassed by the behavior. I was in Boston last month and went to a game at Fenway Park. The people there were mostly very nice and didn't spend any time telling every one how great they are. They didn't need to.

By the way, ticket and food prices are cheaper there. They also make more money and have mass transportation. Comparing Tampa Bay to Boston is like comparing lobster to coconuts.

We have a great team here and should be really proud of that. Let's not get side-tracked by unrelated issues like attendance (which is up 25% from last year) and focus on how great our team is doing. Go Rays!

[jdunk]

The real problem is due to the Rays playing in St. Petersburg. I don't think they'd have attendance problems if the team played in Tampa. It's time to start talking about building a stadium for the Rays in Tampa, where the majority of the people live!

[Leah]

Who wants to sit inside, next to a sloppy drunk when you have so many things available outside, for FREE! This is Florida, near beaches and great fishing. People up North go to indoor stadiums, because it snows! The Rays can leave, big deal, or let Tampa deal with the world constantly criticizing. Good bye and don't let the door hit ya!

[Scott]

These Boston writers are not the sharpest pencils in the notebook are they? I live in New York and am amazed at the amount of disposable money that so many people have in this area. Come on, if the Yankees want to fill seats, they have 8 million people to count on....hundreds of thousands with so much money it is sick. So, Tampa Bay, with not nearly as many people as the New York or Boston markets, and not nearly as much money, are supposed to support baseball in a similar manner? Tampa simply has not been able to entice companies to move their headquarters to Tampa and bring all the deep pockets with them. I am a sports fan....but, I decided against being a sportswriter / sportscaster when I was 19 years of age. I did not want to work alongside so many people who had so little logic (afterall, they are just writers...not Ph.D.s) who act like juveniles. Judging from the comments of the Boston writers, I was dead on in my perception.

PLEASE STOP MAKING ATTENDANCE COMPARISONS TO THE 1950s and the 1960s!!

If you look at the attendance figures for all teams in the 50s and 60s the numbers are low. It was a different era. A down time for the baseball. Bill James (ever heard of him?) in his historical baseball abstract has a chapter titled
"The Fifties nobody talks about: Baseball in trouble".

Baseball was in serious trouble in the 50's and 60's for a multititude of reasons. (big cities in our country in the 50s and early 60s were dying. Boston at the time was a mess and no one wanted to go into the city. Boston of the 50s and 60s does not even remotely resemble the Boston of today. Nearly every ballpark in baseball in the 50s and 60s was built between 1900-1915 and were not very pleasant places to be. People started watching on television and there was even a campaign in the 50s that said TV MUST GO!!) The recent popularity in baseball occured in the 70s (in part due to the '75 WS) and has continued until today. (strike had an impact for a few years.)

[mariano]

We're gonna draw less than 20,000 in the Twins series later this week. What a travesty that would be

[george]

Anybody think Ross is just looking for an excuse to stay home? Yeah, there aren't many tickets left for the Sox series; buy early next time. Better yet, get one of those $9 tickets for the Twins game Thursday. And car pool -- yeah, I know we Floridians hate to do silly things like use public transportation and carpool, but believe it or not, it saves alot of money. And if you're staying home cuz your p*ssed off at how the Rays are playing, I gotta wonder just when WILL you be happy -- the team's closing in on 90 wins and a playoff berth in the most competitive division in baseball. If that's not good enough for you, nothing ever will be. Loser.

[george]

To Thomas at 5:15: Gimme a break. The ticket is $9 per person (and yes, it's upper deck -- what, you want dirt cheap AND prime seating?), you can bring your OWN FOOD, so no expensive concessions are needed, and the parking is FREE if you have three or more people in the car. So that's $9 for the game. PERIOD. Not $130, unless you spend the whole game guzzling $8 beers and choking down $4 hotdogs, and drive your own gas-guzzling SUV all by yourself and have to pay $10+ for parking. But that's your own choice. Be smart, and a Rays game is darn inexpensive.

[Ross]

I looked up tickets a week ahead of time. All that was available were $45 seats that were crane your neck awful, or overpriced outfield seats at the very back of the dome. So I looked up the fail-safe party deck out in the vast reaches of the park for a cheap baseball fix, only to find they were $14. Add $10 to park, plus 2hours round trip gas and drive time, then throw in a road trip full of miserable hitting with RISP and you have the reason I did not get tickets last night. I would have been TICKED OFF if I went too. That was obscene. My intuition to stay home was correct. First place or not, they have serious problems hitting in the clutch lately and their ace looked like a**.

I'm a fan since 2003. I've been going to games for years. However, $100 on a weeknight just for myself to get some bad seats next to a bunch of bostonians, isn't my idea of a good time.

[tim]

The citizens are wisely afraid that if they attend the games, they'll take it up the a** with the biggest tax assessment in history for a brand new stadium.

[george]

Gimme a break on the "we're poor" line. It costs less to take a family of 4 to a Rays game than to take them to the movies. The Rays are the cheapest ticket in all of MLB, probably in all professional sports (well, except maybe for Arena football). The attendance problem is NOT an affordability issue. Or I'm wrong and we've got the sorriest bunch of backwoods trailer-park livin' rednecks in the U.S. who can't come up with $9 for an upper-deck ticket. And as for the fixed-income seniors out there: just buy a few less Lotto tickets on gameday, and you'll have enough cash for a Rays game. It's a better investment anyway.

[Amanda]

Boston Dan-
Thanks for the kind words about the area and the team. Appreciate hearing that from an out-of-towner.
As far as the renovation of the Trop goes, they're looking into it. It's one of many options being explored, just not one getting much press.

[Boston Dan]

Anyway, congrats on your great season. Win, lose or draw. I have been to 5 Rays/Sox games this year and we have lost all of them to you guys. Unless you were there, you can't imagine the pain at Fenway last Tuesday. Hopefully Tito and Pap learned something from Dan Johnson's homerun . Your high, our low.
I am going to watch the rest of games on TV.
Go Sox!! Boston Dan

[SteveInCali]

According to reports compiled by the NCAA, fewer than half of USF's football and basketball players are on track to graduate....
LOL!!! Yeah, that's amateur sports!!! Use minority students until it is graduation time...Much better than pro sports...

[RedSUcks]

How long can you beat thus horse?

Tampa is made up of a buttload of NYers, Bostonians, and other from NE. Now mix in some midwesterners and there ya have it. How many native Floridians have relocated at retirement age to Boston?

It's no big deal. Attendance is still up and will be up next year too.

John McCain dissed this area by not attending tonights game wearing a Rays hat.

[baseballsux]

people aren't going to the pro games here because it's crap...nothing but drama. USF football has a great thing going...they just play the game the way it's meant to be played...with passion. people wanna see a team with a coach who genuinely cares about his players.

[Boston Dan]

Please don't move the Rays. The Tampa Bay area is beautiful and it is nice to have a ballgame as an excuse to visit there.
About the juicebox (Trop). As an outsider my advice would be leave it where it is and renovate. Use some creativity. Make it more of a baseball park. Keep the roof and the ac.
Come see a game at Fenway. Wear your TB gear. Nobody will bother you. Only NYY fans get that kind of negative attention. Boston Dan

[bosstone1]

Florida in itself isnt a baseball mecca. Football is king here and has been from peewee league to h/s to college and to the Pro's. A huge following. Baseball in this market will need time to equal the popularity of football. How much time?-who knows? The Marlins won 2 Titles in their short existence and now they can only get 14k people per game. The Rays are at least doing better than that w/o one Title. Its not a disaster though IMHO.

[Amanda]

SteveInCali-
The problem is, the people here ARE baseball fans. Just not for the home team.

[SteveInCali]

For all of you who believe Tamp is small market, please. Your math is poor as are your statistics. This is from 2006 census, top MSAs [google it].

11 Boston–Cambridge–Quincy MA–NH 4,455,217
19 Tampa–St. Petersburg–Clearwater FL 2,697,731

Not quite 2:1. You people aren't baseball fans. Pretty un-American, commie b@st@rds!!!!

[Thomas]

Chris,

That's blasphemy. Don't say horrible things like that.

EVERY market MUST have a baseball team. And EVERY one of those teams NEEDS a brand new Publicly Funded Stadium EVERY 8-12 years.

They're only doing it for you. So they can field a competitive team. And create jobs. And help the economy. It's not for their profits. It's all for you.

[Cheryl]

To the poster at 3:58. It is because our children attend these FL colleges.

[Thomas]

$9 per ticket to sit in the 300 section is not a very attractive offer.

Even so, add in the "convenience" fees on the tickets, parking, some concessions, and a program and you're at $130. You can't expect people to go every night at that price. Once every other month or so, sure. Compare that to $25 at ChuckECheese. Then ask which your kids would rather go to.

You may all now SHUT UP about the "low cost" of going to see the Rays every night.

[chris]

Maybe every market doesn't need a baseball team.