Boston columnist: Tampa Bay market a "disaster"

The Rays not only had more than 6,000 unsold seats for Monday's opening game of the showdown series with Boston, but  - with the stakes the highest - it was the smallest crowd for the seven games they've had with the Red Sox this season.

As much as the lack of attendance, and support for the home team among those who do come out, has been discussed locally, it is becoming a bigger national story.

One veteran Boston columnist, Steve Buckley of the Herald, was so unimpressed by Monday's turnout, he wondered that if the Rays make the playoffs "shouldn’t their games be moved to a place where fans actually care about the product?''

Here is an excerpt from and link to Buckley's column:

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - Hurricane Ike forced Major League Baseball to send the Houston Astros and Chicago Cubs to Milwaukee to play a couple of neutral-site games.

Now it’s time for MLB to take care of another disaster: The so-called Tampa-St. Petersburg “baseball market.”

Seriously, if the plucky, exciting Tampa Bay Rays make the playoffs, shouldn’t their games be moved to a place where fans actually care about the product?

ESPN.com's Jayson Stark also made his points about the Rays and the crowd:

"They certainly played Monday like a team that looked exhausted. But it wasn't as if there was NO good news for the Rays. At least they failed to draw 30,000 people for their biggest home game in history. (Announced paid crowd: 29,772.)

So why was that such good news, you ask? Because they've won 18 straight home games when the attendance was 30,000 or higher. (Last loss: Opening Day.) So at least that streak is still intact."

The Boston Globe wondered: "Is the clock striking midnight in Tampa? as Nick Cafardo wrote:|

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla.  - Attaboy, Scott Kazmir.

Great way to set the tone for your team.

First pitch, in the immortal words of Bob Uecker, was "just a little bit outside." Nine straight balls later, there were two men on, setting up a three-run jack by David Ortiz. Then came a one-out solo shot by Mike Lowell.

In one inning at Tropicana Field, where the Red Sox had lost six straight games, they sent an emphatic message to the Tampa Bay Rays and Kazmir last night: We can beat you, and we can beat you in your home ballpark.

Kazmir, who still hasn't taken that turn toward elite status that Jon Lester has, is still throwing far too many pitches. And when the Rays got a run on Akinori Iwamura's solo homer in the third off Daisuke Matsuzaka, what did Kazmir do? He immediately gave up a solo shot to Jason Bay in the fourth to make it a 5-1 game. And then came insult to injury when Jason Varitek struck for a two-run blast.

Comments

[Tim]

to all you "The Trop is the worst stadium in baseball" give me 72 degrees inside in the Summer anytime ... If the Trop was outside we would be playing doubleheaders the whole month of September just to make up rain outs ...

And to all you " Move to Tampa " people .. Do you really think that would make a rat's azz difference ??? Just look at the "Tampa Yankees" fans this season .. Their beloved Yankees are out of it and they are nowhere to be found when "Their team" is in town ... so sad ...

[matthew]

p.s Go Rays have your starters go all out on the big mouth cocky sox

[Casey]

The old people live in Tampa - they're the ones who are afraid to drive over the bridge. If you can't make the drive over, then rename the team.

[matthew]

last night they rested their starters today they are going all out on em bosox wasted all thier stuff in the first game

Sooooooo tired of new tampa pansies.

C'mon son - put on your big girl panties and drive across the bridge just one time without crying about it.

I have faith in you.
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Pansy.

[Kathleen Murphy]

It's time for the ST. PETE TIMES to put their money where their mouths are!! Where are your attendance boosters? You're a sponsor of the Rays. What are you doing to put people in seats, besides criticizing us. I was there last night, and I'm unemployed. Help us go to games. This community is suffering. Where are the special incentives to get us in the seats? Discounted seats. Kids go free so families can afford to go together. How about if you buy one ticket, the St. Pete Times will pay for another one to bring a friend.

It's time for the St. Pete Times to start helping resolve the attendance problems and stop just criticizing. Maybe the St. Pete Times is part of the problem.

[Becky]

The games should be blacked out unless they're sold out like the Bucs, then attendance would improve. Why fight the traffic (it's impossible to travel around Pinellas that time of day) so watch it on the tube!

[Gilbert Ford]

I live less than three miles from the Trop and I am a die hard Yankee fan, always have been and always wiil be, I love baseball and the Bucs!

With that being said, I have kids, mortgage, car payment etc. Sure I have gone to the Rays games when the ECONOMY was much more obliging, however, the economy is the pits right now and anyone who would risk their family's livelihood, for a baseball or football game just do not have thier priorities straight!

For the columnist(s) who have chosen to downtalk the Rays fans near and afar, simply because they cannot afford the tickets, are contemptuos jerks. Hell if they cared so much about attendance, give away tickets to the families that are struggling or to the churches. Better yet if you do not have a solution to your perceived (attendance) problem shut up!

[Dave]

The fact is that St. Pete is a terrible sports town. Tampa is an average sports town and the Rays would do much better if the stadium was on this side of the bridge.

If you can not afford a $9 ticket you should not be online complaining about it, you should get a better job. Go to Monster.com and find something new to do.
The rest of the country is having an economic slowdown too. Unfortunatly people in Florida used there homes as an ATM to support a 100+K lifestyle when the average family makes 46K. Now they blame Red Sox and Yankees fans and try to talk about something else. The Trop is terrible. There is a small group of great Tampa fans, but the majority are terrible. The Bucs almost did not sell out a playoff game. Tampa, as I said is an average sports town and St. Pete is terrible.

12:43 nailed it.

[Silent Majority]

Why not just end this argument and Stu admits he made a mistake by not putting Tampa Bay on the road uniforms? This is what it all goes back to!

[robert]

Can't wait to beat the Sox in thte ALCS this year and then all the Boston fans can enjoy their clam chodah and watch their Pats without Tom Brady finish behind the Bills.
Karma is a funny thing...Boston it is catching up to you

[Laughing]

*Rays Lose*

HAHA, Rays are the laughing stock of baseball! Worthless! Useless!

*Rays Win*

HAHA, its not a sellout! Worst fans in baseball! Worthless! Useless!

Listen, a team doesn't just start selling out the same season they start doing well, sorry. The Bucs didn't do it, the Lightning didn't do it, the Rays are no exception. Next year, you'll see attendance bump up, don't listen to these clowns.

Also, if you wanted the big money families to hit games and whatnot, location is an issue. Whos got the big money in the Tampa/St. Pete area? St. Pete beach, no excuse there... Bayshore, bit of a drive... North Tampa, hell of a drive.... theres a lot of things working against them right now but as people look at the postseason and see the Rays (face it, lots of people didn't even know they're in first) they'll spark some interest and start showing.

Worry less about attendance, worry more about that awful game that Kaz threw. Eeesh.

[Mo]

Just let Tampa have the dam team and they can PAY for their stadium! Enough already. St. Petersburg is not full of wannabe gangsters but it certainly has plenty of artists who could give less than a crap about baseball and tons of "early bird" special folks. It's nice to know you can complain about my city left and right but it is I who have to deal with you blocking up the streets from all sides of the stadium on game day. You can claim it's a drug den despite the huge police presence in the wide open area surrounding the Trop. Tampa is what is most important people...only those living there matter. They shouldn't be inconvenienced with a long drive or have to come to a smaller city just to enjoy a game. Friggin' give it to them already.

[King Gator]

The Red Sox Suck!

[Jim]

Put this into perspective. Take a look at the historical statistics. While Yankee Stadium was full, Boston could barely attract 10,000 people to their games during much of the 1960s. Before their big year of 1967, when they had a 92-70 record, they were lucky to get 10-12K a game. This was before NESN, ESPN, and regular TV broadcasts like today. What was their excuse for all of those years? A lot of people wax nostalgic about crowds at Fenway but were nowhere near the bleachers when their team lsot 90 games a year.

[Jimbo]

4:19,

I made the trip out to both Orlando series' these last two years (1st game each) and I'm from St. Pete. I left work a little early myself (3:30) and made it no problem, but there's ways around the traffic in Tampa to get here in time; you just gotta be willing to spend some money on the Crosstown to do it.

I appreciate your dilemma, I do, but the same can be argued about people from the south, as well. I sit next to a nice season-ticket holding couple from Port Charlotte, who get here in about 90 mins, they said. Moving it to I-4/I-75 would add 30 more mins to their drive, and they'd have to give up their tickets, which they've had for years.

No particular area is convenient for everyone; that's naive to think that. Florida was not set up with the intention of all these cities being intertwined in the future, yet, they slowly are merging into the same metros every day (Lakeland and Bradenton/Sarasota are great examples). Short of finally getting the bullet train back on track (so to speak), there's going to be someone somewhere that feels slighted by the location of the stadium.

So, leave it where it is. People have easy access from the south via the Skyway, the north via US 19 (once that intersection at 118th Ave is fixed), and the 4 bridges for everyone else. From Orlando, St. Pete's just an extra 20 mins, and O-towners should be used to tolls anyway, so use the Crosstown and save some stress. People in Rhode Island and Maine don't have a problem with making the "pilgrimage" to Fenway, why should we?

[kitty]

TomP, good for you for getting in the "bad liberal" dig. The truth of the matter is a "decent" job here pays $10 an hour, or approximately $1732 a month before taxes. A "decent" place to live will set you back $850+ a month PLUS utilities. Add to that the cost of car insurance, and such luxuries as food and gasoline, and there's nothing left for games.

This isn't my reality TomP. My husband & I live quite well, but what I described above IS the reality for the majority of Bay area residents. My daughter's husband has a college degree, but his job pays so poorly (she's pregnant and about to drop, so she can't work at the moment) that they're having a hard time finding an affordable place to live because landlords can get more $$$ renting to Section 8 & HUD recipients.

P.S. The average worker in Mass. earns far more than the average worker in Florida. Sorry if the truth hurts.

[justin]

Quit bashing the attendance. The sox and yanks rarely sold out when they were down in the standings. I love how we have all these sox fans suddenly coming on here and commenting once they are tied in the standings. Where were you last week when you lost 2 of 3 at home.

[Brad Igar]

Perhaps if management had not sat on their @$$&$ at the trade deadline and a made a trade, a few more people might be interested.
We all watched as the front offices of teams that were in contention made deals to improve themselves as the stretch run began. Instead, the Rays front office took a rather smug and stupid position of not adding anyone and now they're paying for it.
Combine that with the lack of coverage outside of the Tampa Bay area, gas prices, and crumbling economy and that will give you the reason why people aren't coming in from neighboring markets to support the team.

[Fred]

Anyone notice all the empty seats in NY for the Saturday night game? With Yankee Stadium about to be closed? I wish we had more people in the stands, but for how many years did we have to put up with the incredibly incompetent, inept, Red Sox, and their lack of a competitive baseball team. They should have shipped the team to Atlanta, ... or Milwaukee.

[TomP]

Kitty, perhaps if you paid the confiscatory taxes "enjoyed" by the columnist and every other resident of Massachusetts, you'd change your tune.

The "economy is bad" excuse is laughably weak. You think the economy is better in every other AL market? Think again.

[TomP]

Jimbo says, "And St. Pete's much closer to New Tampa (by about 30 mins or more) than Milwaukee is to Chicago, but somehow, the Astro's "home games" in Miller Park were packed with Cubs' fans this past weekend."

Key word: weekend. You can't compare attendance at a weekend series with this one. If it was the weekend, I'd make the drive. But on a Monday thru Wednesday series, it's just not possible.

[kitty]

Maybe it's time for that boston columnist to come to the Tampa Bay area and see WHY we don't attend games. With wages in decline for those of us still lucky enough to have jobs, and with the cost of EVERYTHING going through the roof, there's barely enough money to pay the bills, much less eat and put gasoline in the car. Entertainment is WAAAAYYYY down on the list of expenditures in most of our budgets. Perhaps if we had the same socialized medical program enjoyed by the columnist and every other resident of his home state, we'd breathe a little easier and loosen up on the purse strings a bit.

[Can you spare $9]

You can get a ticket for $9.00, if you can't afford that you don't have a home to leave the family at!

[Chris]

What an embarrassment to the nation - the tampa bay area is good enough to live in but our teams are not good enough to support!!
If you live here, you should support our team, not a team from somewhere else. If you like the red sox so much, go back to boston.

I have to chime in with those who support building the new ballpark in a more accessible location. But I'm not some Tampa dilettante who can't be bothered to drive a few miles down I-275. I live east of Orlando. I can get to Tampa for a weekday game in little more than an hour (if I leave work early enough to miss the worst of the traffic), but there's absolutely no way for me to ever get down to St. Pete in time.

If the chief complaint is that the market is too small, then make it bigger! Open up central Florida by moving the ballpark out of downtown and make it easily accessible from I-4 and I-75. We're fans, too, you know. Don't you want our money?

[John]

A few observations:

The Rays are drawing crowds about the size of the Washington Nats. How long have the Nats been there? How many winning seasons? Worse, the Nats have a competitor 35 miles away in Baltimore (OK, the Orioles really stink this year) and many in the DC area will do the drive to attend a game in a very nice stadium.

Tropicana really, really sucks. It's the worst ballpark I've ever been in and I've been in about 30 over the past 50 years. Dank, smelly, too noisy (cowbells don't help). And for me anyway, drunk fans to not make a game more fun for the non-drunk.

I lived in DC while two (count 'em) TWO teams got sold out from underneath the fans. But Washington wanted baseball and, after a long wait, finally got a team back.

A question about those moaning about the retirees: Just who, exactly, are the Rays playing in all those home games? Seems to me they're playing teams from around the country, mostly from the East Coast. Unless they were playing with themselves, it would appear that the attendance figures are indeed dependent on the out-of-towners.

Move the stadium, build a better one. Get better fans. For God's sake, get better TV announcers--they're so off-putting that they keep fans away all by themselves.

For Stephanie: I'm a Sox fan and have been most of my life. I've even a passport that shows I was born in the heart of Red Sox Nation. I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

[Bucco]

I was at the Bucs game last Sunday and noticed there were a lot of empty seats. And this is a football town. I think everyone around here is a little more cautious with their money. There are more pressing issues now than sports. It is just entertainment and nothing more. I love sports but I and for most people there more important things.

[Mike]

A few comments.

1. Is this a backlash effect from the demonologists who now don't attend the games because we removed the "devil"?

2. Does no one remember the
"creamsicles"? How many years did it take before we sold out RayJay? Give a quality, consistent product and we will overcome the Red Sux like we did the GB Quackers.

3. I hate to say it, but kids these days, at least down here, do not get excited about watching baseball. My godson has asked me not to bring him any more - he was so bored, and he is not at lightning or bucs games. Sorry.

[Joe]

Brilliant Idea....move the stadium to Tampa so instead of taking 30 minutes from most places in the area it'll take triple that fighting the bridges, the vet, memorial highway and the wonderful I-4 nightmare.

Terrific Idea.....

Its in St. Pete now....shut your F'ing mouths and deal with it.

[BT]

Need to move the stadium to Tampa. Yes, its the bridge. I can get to Orlando quicker.

[Walt]

Johnny from 3:59pm post:

Why move them?? You need a new place to live now??

Spring Hill and Dade City are not located in the St. Petersburg/Clearwater/Tampa MSA. If don't want to drive, then buy a house within the area. Dunedin is a 30 min drive and Orlando has a seperate MSA. Come on.

[Rick]

I really could care less what the national media or some idiot Boston writer has to say about whether we "deserve" a baseball team or not. I can honestly say that my life would not change one bit if St Pete lost the Rays - and that would probably hold true for a majority of the people in this area. Look at Charlotte and Nashville - 2 thriving regions with no baseball team. Don't get me wrong, it's great to have a team here, but if this area truly cannot or will not support a team - so be it. I enjoy a few games a year but I'm not going to be force fed baseball.

[Jimbo]

The transplant excuse is a non-excuse...at least for NL team fans. I'm a Phillies phan, will be till the day I die. Yet, I've been to 35+ Rays games this year, and I've got my playoff tickets paid-in-full. If you're born a Boston or Yankees fan, I can (sorta) live with that, sans the attitude, of course, but if you're a Mets, Cubs, Braves, Reds, Phillies, etc., you've got no excuse. They play each other (during the regular season) once every 4 years, at which point, you have to choose a side.

Otherwise, why not spend the $9/ticket, bring 3 friends, bring a backpack of food and water, and enjoy high-quality baseball (for only $36, since you didn't have to pay for anything else - let's see you and 3 friends get into Wrigley for that much, never mind food)? The Trop is no Fenway or Wrigley, but it's an underrated stadium nonetheless. You'll be surprised what's out here. And St. Pete's much closer to New Tampa (by about 30 mins or more) than Milwaukee is to Chicago, but somehow, the Astro's "home games" in Miller Park were packed with Cubs' fans this past weekend. Believe me, there's no Cubs fans in Milwaukee, so that's not an excuse, either.

No more excuses. Moving it to Tampa won't solve it (see my post at 3:16pm as to why), so suck it up and go. I promise, St. Pete's nowhere near as bad as they make it out on the news to be. If you believe the media, they make it sound like Detroit with palm trees. Don't believe the media...they thrive on negativity!

So St. Pete is convenient for people who live in...
-New Port Richey
-Spring Hill
-Dade City
-Dunedin
-ORLANDO
it's not only Lutz and New Tampa who get the shaft...

[Chuck]

Thomas - the Rays haven't priced anyone out. If you can't afford a $10 ticket, you're a loser in my book.

[Johnny]

Send these stinking Devil Rays to Tampa.
Put low income housing where the Trop is now located.

TechRider,

They lost 13-5 and you are blaming the umps!? This is too funny. Loserville

How does everyone hold ties to the Yankees and Sox, but not to the teams that are losing. I don't see to many Ranger, Bruin and Jets jerseys.

College football is even worse. All the northern people have no issue being Gator, FSU or UM fans. When was the last time you saw a Rutgers, Syracuse, Boston College football/basketball shirt?

[TechRider]

The home plate umpire was more responsible for the first inning Boston runs than was the Rays pitcher. He called 9 straight balls, but many of those were strikes. He knew, we knew it and his crew chief knew it. This was same guy that called Upton out at first after he was clearly safe, because he claimed he moved towards 2nd, which the film shows was untrue.

[keith]

I was always told that old people live in st pete. Well this is an absolute lie. The old people live in miami, their parents live in st pete.

C'mon people, it's the nature of the area. Tampa/St. Pete/Clearwater is a transient city. I live in "New York Richey" where 90% of the county is from up north. I am probably the only native in all of Pasco county. Pinellas county is even worse! It's a small market to begin with, then add that 75% of the people of the area have allegiances to teams up north and you have your answer. This market will never fully support local baseball or NBA basketball for that very reason. The Bucs only play 8 times a year a the Ray Jay, so it's easy to fill it up. Do we not understand this by now? Sheez! BTW...GO RAYS!

[Alan]

I have to agree with the transplant comment as why attendance is so low. Originally from NY I do my best to attend Rays games, but will always consider myself a Mets fan. I average roughly 5-10 games a year, but am not as supportive of the Rays as I am the Mets. It is truly a shame that people don't attend these games. You can buy tickets for 10 bucks, the trop has a good family atmosphere, and everyday is sunny and 72 degrees. And dont forget the Rays are in 1st place. Go Rays!

[Amanda]

3:42-
Come on. Of all the a-hole Sox fans, I think Ian is comparatively an angel. Save the anger for the real jerks.

Thomas,

You are just looking at ticket prices. If you look at the total cost of a game the xRays are lowest in MLB
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2008/03/28/average_ticket_price_list/

But either way, are you suggesting that 10K people more per game go to see the DBacks because the average ticket is a dollar less and because they were good last year? Before you answer know that they had the same attendence in 2007, but sucked in 2006.

[Ian is a Loser]

Red Sox fans are still the most obnoxious fans that we get in the Trop so cut out the self righteous respect the game crap.

$20.00 ticket is not too bad, but when you have to purchase 3, pay for parking, enjoy a hot dog and soda, you are now at the $100.00 price for one ticket to the Bucs, soooo, do you leave your family home???????/

[Thomas]

Don't lecture us on how moronically expensive it is to see a game at Fenway. The cost that idiots in New England pay to see the "Sawx" does not make the Rays prices any less expensive. It only serves as a benchmark of the gauging lunatics from Massachusetts are willing to endure.

The Rays are not as absurdly expensive as Boston or New York - but that doesnt make the tickets "cheap".

Also, if you care to check, you'll see the Diamondbacks are the most inexpensive ticket in the league. If you check further, you'll see the DBacks were in the NLCS last year; were in 1st place most of this year; and average barely 30K per game.