Kazmir to start Game 5

With a 3-1 lead over Boston in the best of seven ALCS, the Rays have changed their pitching rotation and will start LHP Scott Kazmir in Game 5 on Thursday rather than James Shields.

Kazmir has pitched well at Fenway in the past, and Shields has not. Plus, the Rays would have the benefit of Friday's off-day if they have to go deep into the bullpen before a potential Game 6. Shields would start that game on Saturday at the Trop, where he has pitched very well.

"Being in the position we’re in, we like the idea of pitching (Kazmir) with the day off to follow and we also like the idea if it gets down to it that Shields pitches at home. And the fact that Kaz has had some success here,'' manager Joe Maddon said Wednesday morning at the team hotel. "It's our best call at this point. I know you could look at it a whole bunch of different ways.''

Maddon did say that if the Rays had lost on Tuesday and the series was 2-2, they would have pitched Shields in Game 5.  "Under those circumstances you have a chance to go back home and you'd be down by one game and you just feel at this particular juncture Shields has been more consistent,'' Maddon said.

Maddon said he, executive VP Andrew Friedman and pitching coach Jim Hickey have been talking about the possibility of the change since before the series started. The final decision was made late after Tuesday's game.

He said they like the way Kazmir has pitched at Fenway (4-4, 3.02), and acknowledged that Shields has struggled (0-3, 10.13).

Marc Topkin, Times Staff Writer

Comments

[MikeD]

OK, looks like we are both right, Eric. 6 minutes - gotta get ready on the refresh button

[Dawes]

Wow.
As a Red Sox fan, all I can say is
"thank you!" .

What more could I ask for?
You are giving us the spark we need to start yet another comeback.

When I saw this, my hope for a comeback went from virtually none to complete belief.

That is how bad this move is for you, Rays fans.
Get ready for a heart wrenching game 7 loss and a celebration by us on your field.

[Helene]

Eric,

My post was mostly in response to the "Thou Must Not Question Maddon" folks. It looked a little goofy out of context, like I was responding to you or challenging something you said. Sorry. :)

And...ugh. Just read your Maddon quotes. Good Lord. He IS blinking. No, no, NOOOOOO!

Please Scott. Please have a kick a** outing. Please surprise me. Surprise your manager. Please.

[MikeD]

I got my quote from the article which began this post. Directly. Copied and pasted. And yes, I realize that it is from the blog of the Rays hometown paper, but there are no ellipses where anything has been left out, and I really don't think that Topkin would have intentionally or unintentionally misquoted.

[Kevin]

Kaz, just go out and throw strikes. Don't worry about velocity, movement, mixing pitches etc. Just throw strikes and everything will be fine. Go out there with a Yogi Berra head, nothing in it, and let your body take over. Be a kid again and have fun!

[MikeD]

and if you want to see some for REAL management decision questioning, step on over to the boston.com blogs and forums. I can hear the whining, and smell the sour sweat of desperation from here. There's a foul wind coming from out of the Northeast . . .

[Eric]

MikeD,

I got my quote from baseball prospectus, where did you get yours'?

[MikeD]

Eric - here's the actual quote, which you mistranslated before you translated it:

"Being in the position we’re in, we like the idea of pitching (Kazmir) with the day off to follow and we also like the idea if it gets down to it that Shields pitches at home. And the fact that Kaz has had some success here,'' manager Joe Maddon said Wednesday morning at the team hotel. "It's our best call at this point. I know you could look at it a whole bunch of different ways.'' Bait, I realize, but c'mon . . .

[ms]

Kaz's biggest problem is the number of pitches and the fact that he does not pitch enough innings as a result. The bull pen will likely need to work a little extra, but that does not bother me at all. the Rays have beaten boston 10 times in the the last 13 times they met. Can boston win 3 in a row now? sure, but i would not bet a nickel on it. It is Maddon's choice for good or for bad. He is not perfect, but has put this team in a position to win. That is all any fan can ask.

Is it Thursday yet? I cannot wait!

[MikeD]

besides, game 6 tickets go on sale in 27 minutes, and I have elsewhere to be.

[Eric]

in Reading Maddon's comments now I may have over-estimated him. He is stating in no uncertain terms that he expects to lose game 5. This is just awful, awful managing. some choice quotes:

"We like the fact that Scotty is pitching with an off day behind him (on Friday) because that gives us the opportunity to use a lot of our bullpen if we need to and we like the idea of James pitching at home.”

Translation: Scotty kind of sucks lately and we're going to need to empty the pen in his start, so it's good to have an off day to recover this way.

Obvious question: Since you are expecting to not win game five no matter who starts, and you clearly don't trust "Scotty" does this mean this decision was based on setting up the pen for Game 7?!

Wow. This is a manager who has completely lost his mind

[MikeD]

and, I have to say, our pen is rested and ready to kick some Sox butt if Kaz has some trouble. Balfour, Wheeler, Bradford, and Price haven't pitched much, if at all, for the past couple of games. Because they didn't have to. Because the Rays dominated. Get the Red out - go Rays!

[tim]

So does "timely hitting" mean that they hit "all the time?" And I thought they had no offence and just one on good pitching, good defense.

[MikeD]

Eric- Kazmir pitched game two, at home. Granted, the Sox managed to rough him up a bit, but only in the first few innings. The final result is what matters. 9-8. Don't buy into your thesis that Shields is hurt, but we'll see, and if so, check back here for me to tell you that you were right. Kaz did better at Fenway this season, Shields did better at home. I don't know the details of the decision making process, but I'd imagine that Friedman and Sternberg were involved, and Hickey, and Joe had the final say. Joe knows.

[Eric]

Roy G. Biv,

Kazmir didn't pitch the first game. that was Shields. kazmir pitched game 2 and was shelled. You are making the point that Shields is the best bet to win game 5

[Roy G. Biv]

Kaz pitched the first game. It wasn't a quality start, but the final score was Sox 2, Rays 0. He hasn't been great for a while, but he's been pretty good. Seems like we have a little hitting lately. Let's see if they can get to Dice-K.

[Eric]

Helene,

If the Rays don't go to the world series, this decision will be viewed as a phenominal mistake: a panic move by a rookie playoff manager. You may think that's unfair, but the facts will be the facts. He had his team jumping up and down on the throats of the champs only to mess with the rotation so that his weakest starter pitched in what could have been the clincher when he didn't have to do it.

Game 6 tickets available at:

luisgarcia813@gmail.com

[Eric]

George,

I'm not sure what choice Francona had other than Wakefield. You can't use him out of the pen, because it means changing catchers mid game (Varitek doesn't catch Wake). If Wake is on the roster, he's got to be a starter.

But to your main point, if you think Kazmir is a better bet to win than Shields then so be it. I disagree. Strongly.

If you think the chances of winning 1 of the next 2 is better with Kaz going first and Shields goign second, I have to disagree, too. You always manage to win the next game in the postseason. You don't worry about future games or future series. And I am confident that maddon knows this and agrees with it.

This is why I think we will find out soon that Shields is hurt.

Game ticket available @:

luisgarcia813@gmail.com

[Helene]

But, but...armchair managing is the God given right of every baseball fan, no? ;)

Just being honest about my anxiety, not really ripping on Maddon, per se. I won't go on a tirade against him if this doesn't work, because it's not like this is a tragically stupid/off-the-wall decision or anything. I just have more confidence in Shields.

[Eric]

Mike,

that's exactly what a lot of folks on this board have been saying. Read the posts here and you will see all kinds of comments like " we don't want to waste a good start by Shields" against DiceK, etc. Isn't that the same thing as they want to end this in 6?

It's foolish, but there seems to be agreement on both sides that is what Maddon is thinking. This is a loser mentality, if it's true

[George]

Eric, in my opinion, throwing Kazmir is not a losers mentality. Pitching Kazmir in game 5 gives the rays the best CHANCE to win, not only in game 5 but if they lose game 5, there matchup is better in game 6. It is called setting your team up with the best shot to succeed in a seven game series. And this is what Maddon, Hickey and Andrew "the genius" Friedman have come up with as their plan for a successful end to the series. If you don't look at all the possibilities and just focus on this game 5 as a must win then you are selling your team and its fans short. Maybe it is not the right decision, but "in my opinon" it is the right choice. IF i were you(a Red Sox fan) I would be complaing about Francona's choice to use wakefield in Game 4, than what Maddon is doing in Game 5, though.

[Mike]

WOW! I was just reading the Boston Globe online and was shocked to see how many people up there actually think this was a move for the Ray's to win at home!!!! What do they put in the water in Boston??? They think Coach Madden is gonna give them a freebie??? Guess it doesn't matter to them who has a better record in Fenway vs the Trop ??? It was a great move ... a no brainer. Madden is trying to WIN game 5 NOT come home and win.

[Eric]

Brian,

Any ump who has a tight zone will hurt Dice K, BUT it will hurt Kazmir even more.

[Brian]

I agree with giving coach Joe the benefit of the doubt--manager of the year by far--but Kazmir has sucked the last 2 months. Right now he is our 4th best pitcher -maybe behind Price to 5th? That makes me worried. Close Boston out. One thing that will help--and no one is talking about this--is having an umpire who will not give Dice K so many called strikes that are obvious ball . Take those gifts away from the other night and he is not so great. Love to see them win the ALC in Tampa, but don't wait--kick the crap out of the Bo'sox while they are down!

[MikeD]

shoulda said the haters, the baiters and the trolls. Thanks for reminding me, there are no haters

[There are no haters]

How can anyone hate the Rays. It would be like hating a stray dog, or a retarded child. Come on.

[MikeD]

all the doubters, haters, questioners - if you have been doing that all along, during this series and the one against the other Sox, please keep doing it. If that is the case it seems to be helping the Rays. Get the Red out - Go Rays!

[Eric]

George,

To take your logic to it's logical conclusion, then the Rays should forfeit tomorrow's game so that they don't run the risk of "wasting" a good performance. This is a losers mentality, and as a Sox fan I hope this is what Maddon is thinking. I can't believe that's the case, however.

[George]

The rays wasted an awesome pitching effort from Shields when he pitched game one against Dice-K. I like moving him back vs. Becket at home. Maddon knows what he is doing. He has played matchup games all year and won 97(now 103!) games. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

[JPM]

Petey: {little Peter, I suppose}

Do yourself a favor and sign up for a remedial English class.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son ... just ask Amanda!

[Your logic is off]

Horned Rims,

You are saying that because someone has been bad for a month, they are therefore more likely to be good then bad? I have some Countrywide stock to sell you if you really belive that.

[Horn Rimmed Glasses]

Password - thanks for the presale password

[Horn Rimmed Glasses]

Just checked some stats, and Kaz hasn't had a quality start since Sept 20 v Twins. Kaz will be due for great game. All he needs is 6ip. If he limits his walks to 1-2, he'll get 7+ ip.

Remember this, John Lester, who was due for a bad game, last time he got lit up was 9/20. He got beat bad in game 3. Kaz is due to throw great game. THe key will be to limit BBs.

I'm pretty sure Joe Maddon will keep Kaz on a short leash. Price and Edwin Jackson will be waiting in the wings if need be.

[Petey]

JDM, go ask Joe Maddon if he cares how someone spells his name, I'm sure he could care less, just like 99.9% of the other Rays fans.

Maybe you should ride your high horse into town and hold class on how to spell players and coaches names, then i'd be impressed.

[Helene]

*high fives Amanda*

Seriously...we're not going to take the bait. That shtick is seriously lame.

[JPM]

See, this mispelling of your name did bother you Petey.

GO RAYS!

GO KAZMIR!

and

GO PETEY!

[Petey]

I love how JPM used my name to disrepect me, just proves my point more; that JPM even has to hide behind someone elses name. What a coward.

[Amanda]

Reality Check-
The misogynistic thing is tired. Nobody thinks you're funny or clever when you pull that juvenile crap.

[Eric]

Even if this doesnt work I love the move. We would have Shields in Game 6 and I guarantee everyone is available in Game 7. Hopefully Kaz will get it done.

CAN WE JUST SIGN MADDON TO AN EXTENSION NOW????

[Carsvin]

This is the right move. Kaz is the ace of the staff and an all star. Saving him for game 6 would be the bad decision.
The fans that think starting Kaz is a bad decision are just as silly as the fans that thought Upton should have been left off the postseason roster.

[JPM]

Who is hiding Petey?

High horse? Did I mention you by name? Did I call you out?

You must have a complex.

Spell the mans name correctly.

It may not matter to you, but I'm sure it matters to Joe Maddon.

You wouldn't want people mispelling your name would you Pettey?

What 'stuff' have I ever said that you find so annoying?

[Carl Larnin]

Petey, you are so right!! I'm getting tired of people on these boards that act so tough, make threats, and tell other people what to do. They're the type of people who are so miserable with their life that they have to bring people down to their level. You're also right about them hiding, I know for a fact that no one would say a lot of things they post on these MB's directly to my face.

[Da Nile]

Eric: I'm not just a river ... you can only lie to yourself too many times ... you can't get past me

get a grip old man

[Helene]

I'm anxious about this. I'm of the mind that you play your best, as someone else has already said. And proven winner or not, all year Dice K has struck me as a pitcher you can get to if you're patient. (Didn't we have some success against him earlier this year? Gah, my memory is going.) I think Maddon's overthinking and getting too cutesy, but well...it's a decision that's kinda defensible, at least. Hope it pans out, but I'll be a sad panda if we score 5 runs+ and lose.

Surprise me, Kaz. Please.

[Petey]

just cuz I aint too smart don't mean I aint got the same kinda luv for the Rays that any of you smart folks got

I'm not a smart man, but I do luv me some Rays

[Eric]

Mike, I never said I loved the rays. I respect them, but I am a Boston fan who lives in Tampa Bay. Sorry, but I've been with the Sox since '67.

I do root for the Rays in most games, and I really like Maddon and the youth movement, etc.

But this move is bush league. So bush league, that I have to assume there is something going on here that we don't know. I agree with In the Know that Shields is either hurt or the fix is in.

[Reality Check]

Rebecca, with all due respect, maybe you should tend to the dishes or worry about sweeping up your kids' mess ... Maddon has forgot more about baseball than you'll ever know.

[Petey]

JPM, get off your high horse, I know the name of every player and coach for the Rays but I bet I could only spell half of them correctly.

People like you hide behind their computer and tell people what to do and how to act. I'd bet you would never say anything to my face like the stuff you post on message boards.