Tampa Bay Rays find small crowds "bewildering"

Rays officials were clearly disappointed in the relatively small crowd of 19,608 for Tuesday's opening game and similar projections for the other two games of the World Series rematch with the Phillies.

"As we were planning for the season, we circled this series as one of the most compelling of the year,'' team president Matt Silverman said Tuesday night. "It's a rare privilege to host a rematch of the World Series, especially against a team with local connections. Based on all the information we had, we projected full houses.  It's a huge miss."

Silverman said the Rays are perplexed why attendance hasn't been better - the Rays went into play Tuesday averaging 22,796, which was 10th in the American League and 23rd in the majors. Going into the season, they said their goal was to match the MLB average, which was 29,562 entering play Tuesday.

"Quite frankly, we don't know what to attribute it to, but it's not just the economy,'' he said.  "It's bewildering. There seems to be great affection for the team and excitement for the '09 campaign, but it's not showing up at the gate at all."

Asked if the Rays would have drawn better if the games were played in Clearwater, where the Phillies have spring training, or in Tampa, where some people think a new stadium should be built, Silverman responded: "I don't know how it might have drawn at other locales within Tampa Bay, but a matchup of World Series teams would clearly have drawn a good deal better in every other baseball market."

In six previous Series rematches, the lowest single-game attendance was 37,700 for an Astros-at-White Sox game in 2006. The average for a rematch series (including two in 2001 between the Mets and Yankees) was 46,868.

Comments

[ARO]

"Just once ONCE..I'd like to see management call out the people that live in Tampa that support other major league teams."

AMEN!!!

Drive over the bridge, morons, we do! Traffic is a lot easier coming south than heading into Tampa. I sat on the bridge for an hour last (and I mean last) time I went to a game at Legends. Then had to fight through traffic on the surface streets--needless to say we were late. There is no way it's going to be easier to get to a weeknight game anywhere in or around Tampa. You have an easy time going to bucs games--hello they're on SUNDAY. Try that in rush hour on a Thurs night. At the Trop, you're off the interstate and into the parking lot. Get a ticket package and add the parking passes, it's a great deal and easy easy to get to the games.

Also get it through your heads: If the Rays move, they won't be moving a few miles down the pike. Not to Tampa. Not to Orlando (oh god what a h*ll h*le) They'll move out completely out of state.

Oh and last--I don't know anyone who'd willingly go to a Phillies game. I go to every series the Rays have at home but you won't find me near the place until the Philles and their nasty fans leave.

[ARO]

"Just once ONCE..I'd like to see management call out the people that live in Tampa that support other major league teams."

AMEN!!!

Drive over the bridge, morons, we do! Traffic is a lot easier coming south than heading into Tampa. I sat on the bridge for an hour last (and I mean last) time I went to a game at Legends. Then had to fight through traffic on the surface streets--needless to say we were late. There is no way it's going to be easier to get to a weeknight game anywhere in or around Tampa. You have an easy time going to bucs games--hello they're on SUNDAY. Try that in rush hour on a Thurs night. At the Trop, you're off the interstate and into the parking lot. Get a ticket package and add the parking passes, it's a great deal and easy easy to get to the games.

Also get it through your heads: If the Rays move, they won't be moving a few miles down the pike. Not to Tampa. Not to Orlando (oh god what a h*ll h*le) They'll move out completely out of state.

Oh and last--I don't know anyone who'd willingly go to a Phillies game. I go to every series the Rays have at home but you won't find me near the place until the Philles and their nasty fans leave.

[dobie315]

Most everyone who lives here is from a "baseball town". Those towns have great venues for baseball. We don't have a great venue. It's functional. However, times have changed. We need a venue that will make people want to attend games on a consistent basis.

[Haywood]

You people are all a bunch of goobers. I was at the game last night. Local Philly fan didnt seem to have a problem crossing the bridge, paying the money, watching the game in a dome, being in that nasty part of town, caring their team isnt playing so well, dealing with crackheads in the parking lot, blah, blah, blah, and believe me, there were plenty of local Philly fans there. You people are goobering morons and will be the first to complain when a new stadium is asked for, no matter where it is, and will be the first to complain when the team packs it up and leaves for wherever. What a bunch of dopes.

[Go Rays!]

Sorry, weekday games will always be poorly attended, but you can bet your butt the Marlins series will have everyone there. Why? Tampa people don't like driving through that mess of traffic during the week. That's why. That's the reason. St. Pete doesn't have enough fans to fill up the stadium during the week. If I lived on that side of the bridge we'd have half season packages, not just the 20 game ones we have. I'm not saying move the stadium to tampa, I'd love that obviously, but that's the reason. The attendance is ALWAYS down during the week, but these people that continually harp on it, never seem to get that.

I've been a die hard since 1998, I'm tired of being told I don't go to enough games...My family is getting ready to leave to go tonight, but apparently I need to go to every single game before they are happy.

Just once ONCE..I'd like to see management call out the people that live in Tampa that support other major league teams. Just once, I'd like to see ol' Joe say something about it. All of those Red Sox fans coming to a few extra games wouldn't hurt. But NO, we have to call out the Rays fans that don't go to enough games.

This isn't New York City with millions upon millions of fans, or Boston, that draws from over six states to get fans. This is Tampa Bay, and we love our Rays...but get off our back if we don't go to every game.

[TriplePlay]

I think the attendance is just fine for a 4th place eastern division team. I guess Stu and Matt don't look at current standings. How bout a recap so far of 2009: Stu Sternberg - "we're tapped out and can't spend anymore"

Matt Silverman " If last years world series teams would have played in other markets the gate would have been better"

How many games have you guys watched so far? Upton struggling and proving he's not a leadoff hitter but where does he bat? Who cares that he has gotten a few hits lately he isn't a contact leadoff hitter.

Bullpen - how many games have we lost or lost a chance to win due to the bullpen? What was the weakest part of the team last year? A closer. Who did we sign?

Starting pitching - inconsistent is being nice. This is the majors. Having 5 consistent starters rarely happens. Our guys have looked like they are never ready to begin the game giving up big leads early forcing the offense to get aggressive. teams adjust to this and we will lose more.

Defense - The golden touch of last year isn't here this year. Look how many balls have eaten Pena up? never happened last year. Bad hops, bloops all are up in 09. That's baseball.

Want to fill the seats - get in 1st place and quit whinin.

[9equals8.com]

Rays are in a long-term contract (thru 2027) with the Trop and the Pinellas County. For those of you hoping to get a new stadium in Tampa, there are some serious hurdles to get over (for example, either Tampa taxpayers or the Rays organization would likely have to buy out the rest of that contract). A more realistic outcome might be a deal to keep the team in Pinellas County, but to move the team closer to Tampa residents as well. In fact, this is the direction the team is moving in.

Here are the currently contemplated sites for those that have not seen this: http://www.9equals8.com/2008/12/tampa-bay-rays-identify-7-potential.html

5 of the 7 sites being considered a right over the bridge.

[Robert]

Matt, I hope you read this blog and see what a huge issue is. YOU NEED A NEW STADIUM IN TAMPA! I love the Rays and my wife and I are be hit hard with the economy and I am going to more games this year than last. I have been to 5 games this year and last I dont think I went to more than 6 or 7. My 6th game will be on Thurs against the Phils. I worked in St Pete for aa long time and lets face it.. Most of St Pete is a DUMP and on welfare. The TROP sits right there where South St Pete starts and that is the roughest area in Tampa Bay. I was robbed at gunpoint delivering beer blocks from the Trop! Lets get that new stadium and you will see a consitency of filled seats. Tampa has twice the population and probably 20 times the amount of money as the ones in St Pete. I think what Rocky said was right too. Just because the Yanks are coming to town doesnt meen you jump ticket prices from 10 to 16 dollars. Some fans are only able to come because of the 10 dollar seats. Come on a beer is 8 dollars! That is almost the price of a ticket! That is ridiculos!! Matt, you can fix some of it on your end, but to really get this rollling you need an new stadium in Tampa! I love the projected stadium you guys had drawn up with the roof that could retract in like 6 minutes! Lets get it done! I want baseball in tampa 4EVER!

[Chris Auer]

I am a Rays fan who goes to a lot of games. I WILL NOT go to a Philly game. The Philly fans are the worst in the league and Rays security does nothing to stop those fans from fighting each other and Rays fans. Never Never Matt. Get it. When the Philly fans are gone, I'll be back at the Trop.

[JVNootz]

If you put the park in Tampa (old sombrero lot?) You will immediately see an increase in fan attendance. Think of how many baseball fans we are losing out on to the Yankees. (Yeah, let's support a team in our division!) There are plenty of places to build a park in Tampa. Sure, winning is the key to attendance, but winning the year before a heavy recession still doesn't make it easy for fans to justify driving 30 minutes to an hour away for a baseball game inside of a sardine can. I've grown to love the Trop and like the upgrades they have made, but I promise I'd be a season ticket holder if you put a park for my hometown team, IN MY HOMETOWN.

[therayway]

just look at the surrounding area. It's not rocket science people. Hmmm, should we have a stadium in an area with only 500,000 people, most of which are poor or lower income? Or should we put it where the population exceeds 1 million, with many more middle class and affluent fans? Give me a break, this is a terrible situation for the Rays, and I give them some credit for not yelling to the press that they want to be in Tampa, cause that has to be the case.

[therayway]

If the rays had a stadium in tampa, this wouldn't happen. Even if the warehouse known as The Trop was in Tampa, they'd pull more fans. The Trop is not a quality stadium. Anyone who knows what they are talking about agrees. Obstructed views, seats not facing the action, no free standing/walking areas to watch the game, a concourse that just dead ends in the outfield somewhere, no social gathering areas w field view (the batters eye is so lame). But put this 70s era stadium in Tampa, and they'd pull at least 5000 more a game, easily. St. Pete needs to figure something out, or the whole Tampa Bay area is going to lose an MLB ball club. It's ridiculous.

[Yogi]

"

Hey Yogi,
What part of "A stadium with a roof that will be closed for 99% of the games played there." do you not understand?

Posted by: PDQ | June 24, 2009 at 12:46 PM
"
It wouldn't be closed 99% of the time smart guy. Baseball season starts in April, it is mid June...April and May evenings have been fine, it hasn't been unreasonably hot at 7pm or later till this last week. If you remember last October during the playoffs, it was absolutely gorgeous out during the middle of the day when Tampa hosted their games in the Trop, 75-80 w/ lower humidity. So a retractable roof in Orlando or Tampa would eliminate the location/dog days of summer in Florida issue..April and May roof open almost every game, July, August, September play it by ear

[skp]

move closer to where the money and growth is in central FL (north and east) and you won't have to be bewildered anymore. if st. pete won't give up the waterfront, they have very little to offer to a MLB club. I-4 somewhere between 75 & 275 and you draw on new tampa, tampa, brandon, and everything between here and orlando. in exchange you give up sarasota and perhaps st. pete beach. a no-brainer.

[PDQ]

Hey Yogi,
What part of "A stadium with a roof that will be closed for 99% of the games played there." do you not understand?

[Yogi]

"

Do you think it has anything to do with that stadium? Is there anyone in the world who really WANTS to go watch a ballgame in a dome? One afternoon at Brighthouse field (or even at Dolphin Stadium) and you would never want to watch baseball indoors again.

Or maybe you folks just really do not like baseball. It is hard for me to imagine your getting only 20K per game with that team you have.

Posted by: Phils fan | June 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM
"
I agree, outdoor baseball is just a different feeling than from a dark, gloomy dome and also an empty dome atmosphere feels much worse than an empty outdoor park. A retractable roof in Tampa or Orlando that has the AC running till 6:30pm till they open the roof(if there are no storms around or an unreasonable heat wave like right now) would be the perfect solution for big league baseball to survive in Central Florida.

[Yogi]

PDQ, the Marlins new ballpark will have a RETRACTABLE roof w/ removable windows to get some natural light when they open the roof when the weather is good enough to leave it open, that's a lot nicer than the Trop. But the Trop is not the main issue, it's the location that has to change if baseball is going to survive in Tampa Bay. Losing a team would be catastrophic to the image of the area nationally. Link to the Marlins new ballpark renderings:
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/fla/ballpark/index.jsp

[WS]

Embarrassing! Can't blame the team if they eventually relocate. Tampa Bay does not have people that love this amazing game.

[mike in tampa]

RFN- attendance is down because of my attitude??? WHAT?!?!?!

There is no "attitude" factor in saying that I CANNOT GET TO THE GAMES IN TIME.

It is a fact that I have had crackheads come up to me on a regular basis. I park at the private lots that are to the right as you get off the interstate. One place is right behind a Gastroenterologist, one is a church (I believe) these are the only places to park when I get to the games 10 minutes before they start.

Your point about the Bucs/ Lightning not being well-attended until they started winning is 100% correct.

No where except Wrigley field will they sell out a park for a losing team....sorry, them's the facts.

The difference in that AS SOON as the Lightning/ Bucs started winning, they started selling out. Immediately.

The Rays will never get that, because at least 50% of the fans that WANT TO GO TO THE GAMES can't do it because of where the Stadium is now.

All of you people who want the team in St. Pete so bad need to decide what's more important....to keep the team in the Bay area or keep whining and complaining about people from Tampa.

I have always found people in St. Pete to have a severe inferiority complex when it comes to Tampa....what's with that?

[WS]

The Tampa Bay area has weak #ss fans! I grew up in Tampa and have always supported all the pro teams. I've lived in Colorado for 10 years now, and have seen what TRUE fans are. My teams are still the Rays, Bucs, Ning, and Magic. This team is incredibly talented. Get you sorry b**t down to the dome!!!!!!!! Baseball games are cheap.

[mike in tampa]

PDQ- learn to read. I said in my post that I LIVE IN TAMPA and that i have been to about 15 games already this year. I have had crackheads beg me for money. The stadium IS in the ghetto. Those are all facts.

MY comment about Dolphin Stadium was in reference to some idiot who said the reason people don't come is because of the dome. My point was that we need a retractable roof stadium, too.

mm- the stadium is in the LEAST logical place in Tampa Bay. And I DO go to Lightning games, at least 20 per year, because I buy two 10 games packs. Don't go to Bucs games, because I don't care about the Bucs....but lots of other people do.

I agree that comparing the Bucs to the Rays is not exactly a direct comparison, based on games played. BUT the Lightning play 41 home games per year, and in 2004 when we went on the Cup run that place was SOLD OUT EVERY NIGHT...no matter WHO we were playing.

The population of TAmpa is much more than St. Pete. TAmpa is more of a sports- friendly town that St. Pete. More people within a closer distance to the stadium = higher attendance...DUH.

Even when I lived in LArgo I wished the Rays played somewhere else....

What part of this equation do you people NOT understand???

Live in Tampa + have a job = cannot go to RAys games on weekdays.

Now, you are limiting your fan base to LOCAL (there's that word again!!) people....where are there more people who would be considered "local".....ST. Pete, or Tampa????

[Chris S]

I agree with those folks who have suggested Silverman's statements were meant to highlight the poor attendance so that, when the team is moved in a few years, he can say "I warned you." What I DON'T agree with is that the move would be to Tampa. COME ON PEOPLE! These guys are businessmen. They took a huge risk when they bought this team. They've seen disappointing attendance figures despite their efforts and despite the fact that the Rays are winners now. Do you really think that - if faced with the choice of say Las Vegas or Tampa - they would choose to move the team 15 miles east?! I don't buy it. That's a HUGE risk given the results they've seen so far.

[9equals8.com]

I'm just tired of all the complaining about attendance. When I listen to 620AM in the mornings, I always turn the channel at the first mention of attendance. When I hear the Rays execs complaining about it, it's ticks me off. When Scott Kazmir says stupid things about the fans not showing up (2008), it makes me not like him as much. I own 4 lower box full season tickets (a very big financial commitment to this team for me). The least they can do is caveat their complaining with "we really appreciate the fans that support our team and are grateful for their loyalty, but....[diatribe on poor attendance]".

No one likes to feel as though they are not appreciated, so be careful how often and harshly you complain about this fan base and attendance. I will only take so much before I reevaluate how I spend my entertainment dollars.

[tbird]

For those who attempt to compare the Rays with the Bucs, you are way off base. The Bucs play EIGHT regular home games per season--the Rays play 81 regular home games. How can you compare attendance at 8 games vs 81 games. No comparison. Nobody has brought up what I consider the main culprit here. Look at the Marlins when they were on top of the world, they were lucky to get 20,000 at their games when they were world champs. People tend to forget that the "MARKET" is up north for the majority of the baseball games here. For sure, Florida is a Spring Training venue but I have serious doubt if any city in Florida will support a baseball team in the dead of summer. Florida will certainly never support a team like Boston/NY/Phil/LA/Chicago markets. The market there is obvious and let's face it, there isn't much in the way of distractions like there is here; beaches, water, etc. The on-field product is important but not to the point where this area will have sell-outs like the bigger markets. I might add that the present economy is a contributor as is the TV availability. Don't believe for a second that I and many many many others, with thoughts of loading up the car, driving on congested roads for nearly an hour and then figuring in the cost and the hassle of getting there and back--just say "my recliner looks awful good, I could probably use the $40 I have in my wallet much better and I can sit in comfort with my family and watch the game."...Please don't say that isn't a MAJOR FACTOR!!!

[PDQ]

This is disappointing to hear. Matt, what was your Tuesday night attendance in previous years? I guarantee not 19K. Also don't forget that lots of Rays fans hate the phillies and with good reason. The world series was horrible between the cheating, the blown calls and the weather (dome? what dome?) why would anyone want to pay money to "relive" that? Not me. I go to games. I have tickets for Thursday night's game. Someone will use them, probably my kids but I'm not going to rush out to see a team I can't stand.
The Tampa crowd needs to shut up and try driving over the bridge just once. I'll bet the loudest "move to tampa" whiners have never even been to the Trop. The idiot who commented about driving through the ghetto and crackheads begging for money certainly hasn't. (Of course we all know Tampa is just idyllic and so easy to get around!) I've been to the stadiums and forum in Tampa and it's a nightmare getting to them on surface streets. At the Trop, you're off the interstate and into the parking lot. (Despite the best efforts of the St. Pete police to mess things up!)
And as for the stupid comment about Dolphin stadium...um hello, the Marlins are getting a stadium with a roof! A stadium with a roof that will be closed for 99% of the games played there. A stadium with a roof that looks remarkably like the Trop from the drawings I've seen.

[Patrick]

I'm insulted. I went last night, spent $150 for me and my son, saw a lousy game and they are pissed at me????

[WTF]

The point is folks, that management doesn't really want you to go to the games in St Pete. They want a new venue in a better market and need poor attendance to make that happen. I just hope they think that Tampa is that market. I don't want to lose this team.

[mm]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. The stadium is in the most logical spot in Tampa Bay. It is directly off of the interstate. The only stadium in Tampa Bay that is even close to the interstate. All of you tampa people whining as if you would attend more games if the Stadium was in Tampa. Why don't you go to Lightning games? What about Bucs games?

[Glenn]

I regularly attend a few games each season, but on an average income, the games are a luxury. I make sure that I am well-fed before going to the game since the concessions are so expensive. And I load up people in my car to avoid the parking fees.

My suggestion: reduce the upper deck prices to $5.00 (for all the games) and have a special parking lot for upper deck fans at $5.00 a car, reduced by a dollar for every extra person in the car (two people reduced parking fee = $4.00). Provide a nice shuttle ride from parking lot to front doors. How much money do the Rays make on empty seats? Fill them with people, even if the income for the Rays isn't much. It would certainly build a "buzz" for the team.

Right now, it costs too much for any kind of "family" to go to a game. And I know my kids could never afford to take a "date" to a game. If making lots of money from the few fans that go to the game is the only way the Rays can financially make it, then maybe it's time to admit the failure for our community to support a team. We don't have enough money and there are lots of others things to do in the Bay area.

[WTF]

I believe Rays management wants a new venue that's more accessible to the demographic that can afford to support an MLB franchise, and they need to complain publicly about attendance in order to secure political ammo for the move. Hopefully that move will only bring them closer to Tampa and not out of the area altogether to another market.

[RFN]

The crowds are still down because the attitudes of Mike in Tampa are the norm. I work in Tampa with mostly folks who live in Tampa (I live in St. Pete)

They think St. Pete is crime ridden, even though Tampa has a higher crime rate (and most have never been to St. Pete). They forget that when the Bucs were terrible, they were practically giving tickets away. (Don't count on sellouts in 09) They forget that except for the season after the Cup, Lightning games were/are not well-attended. But, the biggest problem is that they think by not going, somehow a stadium will be built in Tampa. That's just not going to happen. If the Rays move, it will be out of the area, not from Florida's 4th largest city to Florida's 3rd largest city.

[dobie315]

Firts of all, win consistently and the fans will come. The Rays mgmt has to "undo" what prior managment did. That will take a more time. Secondly, the team needs a new venue in a suitable locale. If there were more things to do near the stadium before and after the game, attendence would be much better. Places like Wrigley and Fenway thrive (even though they are old venues) due to all of the places that are near the stadium. Place the stadium closer the "Gateway" area and things will fall into place.

[oldtimer]

When this team was BAD, attendance was poor. Last year this team was GREAT, and attendance was still poor. This year the team is AVERAGE and sttendance is once again poor. I don't blame ownership at all. St. Petersburg as a city is way in over their head. They will never be a big league city that can support MLB. The Rays should move to Tampa and it may finally become a viable business venture. Until then expect more of the same. I live in Pinellas and I have been to the Trop. Nothing wrong with the stadium. I like it. What's wrong is there is a major league team in a minor league market. Last year after the All-Star break, the Rays went on a tear and while sitting in 1st place in late July and early August they were still drawing 21,000 per game! Many equate the poor attendance with the team's poor performance but sadly that is just not the case. No more excuses. It's time for this team to move so many of the real fans can attend the games.

[NeilB1979]

Cut the beer prices in half....and they will come.

[Ray]

"Most people do not want to drive through the ghetto and have crackheads asking them for money every time they go to a game."

And we don't get that coming to the Ice Palace for Lightning games?

And you must be coming to the Trop from the wrong direction and parking in the wrong places to see the crackheads.

[mike in tampa]

WHY isn't attendance any better?? Seriously? Lets see....

I live JUST on the other side of the Howard Franklin, in Tampa. It took me over an hour to get to the game tonight after my girlfriend got off work, we left as soon as we possibly could....5:30. We barely got to the game in time. It just doesn't make sense for me to try to hurry over to St. Pete on a weekday, only reason I did it tonight was because it WAS the World Series rematch. I am going tomorrow, too.

On top of that, WHERE DO YOU THINK 50% OF THE FANS COME FROM???? TAMPA!!!!!! Or even further to the east, like Brandon/ Riverview.....WE CANT MAKE IT TO THE GAME IN TIME ON A WEEKDAY!!!!!!

The Trop is in the WORST location possible. I'm sorry, but St. Pete is NOT a sports town at all. Look at what happened when you guys tried to build the Sailboat Stadium at Al LAng? All the "SAve our wallets and waterfront" kooks came out. Do you seriously think that would happen in Tampa? OF COURSE NOT!!!

Most people do not want to drive through the ghetto and have crackheads asking them for money every time they go to a game. The Trop itself is not that great, but whatever. It has a field and Air Conditioning. Good enough for me.

For the guy who said something about sitting in Dolphin Stadium and never wanting to sit inside again....WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING???? It was friggin 97 degrees today at my house when I left for the game. I WOULD NOT have even bought tickets to the game tonight if it was in an outside stadium.

I HAVE sat in Dolphin Stadium to watch Dolphin games. In September. It is absolutely miserable.

On top of that, 50% of our games would get rained out or delayed if we had an open stadium. I'm sure you guys were really excited to sit outside in the rain in 30 degree weather during the World Series, right? Get real. And shut up.

Solution??? STADIUM IN A BETTER SPOT. I love the Rays, and I go to EVERY game I possibly can, I have already been to about 15 games this year. But normally I can't make it during the week. It's as simple as that. I am not going to buy a ticket to arrive in the 4th inning when 50% of the games are already decided.

The new stadium does NOT have to be in Tampa, but it needs to be more accessible for the people that live over here. Theoretically, if you moved the Trop to that big old landfill area that's just on the other side of the bridge from TAmpa, attendance increases AT AEAST 15-20% GURANTEED. Move it to Tampa and it probably increases 20-25%.

St. Pete is more worried about all of thier "Diverse Culturalism" and old grumpy pants retirees who complain about building a stadium in the water even though they haven't been out of thier houses in 15 years. Get real, it's NEVER going to work where the Trop is now.

Here is a list of the 5 reasons why attendance is down.

1. Nobody wants to pay crackheads for parking, drive through the ghetto to get to/ leave the game...and have crackheads panhandling them for money when they are trying to bring thier kids to the game.

2. When games start at 7pm, people from Tampa cant make it on time unless they get off work earlier than 5pm. Any later, no way.

3. The team is not performing up to expectations.

4. St. Pete is not concerned with the RAys, as a whole. There are always going to be fans who come out, but nothing like it would be over here. Not even close.

5. People from Tampa cannot make it to a weekday game in time....wait, did I say that already??

Look at the sports in Tampa.
Bucs- have sold out EVERY GAME for years. They were a laughingstock, just like the (Devil) Rays for years, got really good, GOT A NEW STADIUM IN TAMPA (right next to the old stadium...so OBVIOUSLY the area is good for sport/stadiums) and sold out games. Do you think there are more football fans than baseball fans in Tampa? Doubt it. If so, I bet 80% of those "football" fans are baseball fans, too.

Lightning- were a laughingstock for years, just like the (Devil) Rays. What happened? They got a new arena, IN TAMPA, with LOTS OF STUFF TO DO nearby, with no ghetto, and THEN got good. Started selling out. Then, got bad again, and attendance went down. What do you think would happen if the LIghtning went on another deep playoff run? They would start selling out again. Why? the arena is accessible to the MAJORITY of sports fans, who LIVE IN TAMPA.

Move stadium = increased attendance. It's that simple.

P.S. attendance will go up 5% GUARANTEED if Joe would stop being so damn stubborn and SIT Navarro and play Hernandez, who can actually play ball.

[r edwards]

Most anything of similar content, has always drawn a better crowd in Tampa as compared to St.Pete. Even professional meetings of members from both sides of the bay, have been better attended on the Tampa side. The Rays have aroused my interest in baseball for the first time since the "big red machine". I wish them well but I fear they have an uphill climb to increase attendance and may eventually seek "greener pastuers".
Former Cincy Kid.

[tyrone green]

apparently attendance is up over last year. short of the goal, but, up. while employment and the economy are on the downturn. the product is good, but the financial situation of many of the everyday fans is not. ownership and management knew what they were buying. now that the stadium deal is in a holding pattern, we are hearing the muckety-mucks complaining.

[9equals8.com]

Silverman responded: "I don't know how it might have drawn at other locales within Tampa Bay, but a matchup of World Series teams would clearly have drawn a good deal better in every other baseball market."

Is this a threat of some sort? Come on, Matt, read the papers. Unemployment has doubled since last year in the TB area, ticket prices are higher this year (still a reasonable deal for many folks, but higher nonetheless) and attendance is still up this year for the Rays.

Reality is that it will take time to rebuild the base of fans and that's what it takes to pack the house during the week regardless of who's playing. Lots of people stepped up when we first got the team only to see it quickly become the laughing stock of MLB for 9 years (2.5 million+ showed up in year 1). Now that there is a competitive product on the field, attendance is rising and the base is being built (I've never seen so many kids and parents wearing Rays gear before). 20k for a weekday series is actually pretty solid given the numbers from 2 years ago. Look back to April 30th against Boston (usually a sellout or close to it - let's also not forget the ALCS drama). The Thursday game drew 20k while Friday thru Sunday drew 30k+. It's a simple fact - Tampa is not a large market and it's a working class town. Given the drive, weekday games mean getting home at 11PM or later. The fans are showing up in very strong numbers for weekend games (averaging over 30k) and improving numbers during the week. Let's stop harping on attendance (getting really tired of it) and keep the focus on the product. If the product is good, the fans will come over time (this has been proven time and again)!

But, NO ONE likes a whiner, so CUT IT OUT RAYS MANAGEMENT!!!

[Tim]

Joe started this by showing everyone that he doesn't care about winning.....BJ batting lead-off, sticking with Fatty Navarro and struggling Sonnanstine........The Yankees sat A Roid, and the Sox did Ortiz.....yet Joe is afraid to sit Navarro? Please.........give me a real manager who tries to win games and not worry about egos and the attendance will go up.

[Phils fan]

Do you think it has anything to do with that stadium? Is there anyone in the world who really WANTS to go watch a ballgame in a dome? One afternoon at Brighthouse field (or even at Dolphin Stadium) and you would never want to watch baseball indoors again.

Or maybe you folks just really do not like baseball. It is hard for me to imagine your getting only 20K per game with that team you have.

[Rocky I]

I know our ticket prices are some of the best in the league but when you increase the cheap seats to $16 from $10...no thanks. I will attend the $10 games..and go to more games instead of a few "prime" games. Embarassing game tonight...need a big bouce back tomorrow from Garza.

[Jeff C]

There are myriad reasons for the attendance not being better, none of which is new news.

The Rays should look at year to year increases, and I know attendance is up nicely from 2008, though short of the team's stated goal.

This is like BJ Upton batting leadoff. It is what it is, so why keep hapring on it?