Hillsborough County foreclosures up 10 percent year over year

Several regulars to this blog are engaged in a multi-month micturating match about whether foreclosures in the Tampa Bay area have risen, fallen or flattened this year.

Here are the facts in Hillsborough County: In the first 9 months of this year, foreclosures are up 10 percent. The tally is 15,241 foreclosures cases from Jan. to Sept.2008 versus 16,751 cases from Jan. to Sept. 2009.

The good news is that in September alone, foreclosures dipped for only the second time this year compared to a year earlier. I don't know if that's the start of a happy trend or a one month anomaly.

Here's a chart showing Hillsborough foreclosures for the past 4 years: Download Foreclosurestats. Note that the number of cases has quadrupled since 2006 and quintupled since 2005.

Comments

[Tino]

Of course I am correct. Unlike my antagonist who oddly claims that these numbers are falling, I've been correct on this topic since I noted the ramp-up beginning over 2 years ago.

The other piece of the puzzle is how many of those 54,000 cases since 2003 have been resolved and haw many are still in the foreclosure queue.

I know of several foreclosures in the 2006 "vintage" that are nowhere near being resolved over three years after the original filing.

Even if the number of filings "fall", I would estimate that the queue will continue to grow. Right now, it's expanding by 1,200 a month, as the courts have only been able to process about 30 of these cases per day. I'd also say we have at least 25,000 unresolved foreclosures in the queue at this point, and that's just in a single county.

[Frank Lee]

Tino, instead of childishly alluding to me, why don't you just name names like a man when you commit fraudulent statements?

The RATE of foreclosure filings FELL during the summer and ROSE last month. Is this such a hard concept, or are you going to continually insult us all with your falsehoods?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Tino says: "Unlike my antagonist who oddly claims that these numbers are falling, I've been correct on this topic since I noted the ramp-up beginning over 2 years ago."

You are correct Tino and unlike one person who has never answered your original question, it has now been answered in the article backing what we knew all along. I suspect the foreclosures will continue to climb through the end of the year and into the first quarter or so of next year.

Then again, if your the person who has been in denial, perhaps it is because this person is stuck holding declining property assets that they could not flip or sell after the housing bubble popped!

Then again, some people like to stir trouble by making mention of using a work computer to post my comments. It only underscores just how immature and childish some can be with their lack of knowledge!

[Fuzzy Bear]

"Several regulars to this blog are engaged in a multi-month micturating match about whether foreclosures in the Tampa Bay area have risen, fallen or flattened this year."

Looks like the match winner are those who stood firm on the fact that foreclosures were increasing. The release of the names and occupation of the top 100 that have been arrested also clearly details that the top three culprits were mortgage brokers, realtors and investors. That alone says much about the industry.

I suspect that those that were so bitterly oppossed to believing foreclosures were on the rise are property flippers themselves who are now holding a declining asset they could not flip.

[Frank Lee]

Fuzzy, you are of course LYING...again. I think EVERYONE's tired of your and Tino's rantings and fight-picking. His fallacy ridden "question" has been answered MANY times over and you know this. Honestly, if Thorner is so desperately in need of page clicks to allow your drivel, this blog is in as much danger as the "Fueling Station".

Here's your monthly refresher...

http://blogs.tampabay.com/realestate/2009/08/quartermillion-homeowners-benefit-from-beneficence-of-fellow-taxpayers.html?cid=6a00d83451b05569e20120a5486edc970b#comment-6a00d83451b05569e20120a5486edc970b

[Fuzzy Bear]

Frank says: "Fuzzy, you are of course LYING...again."

You make me laugh with your nonsense! Even when the proof is put out to the public, you still deny it! Your a Joke! In fact, I did not even mention your name Frank, what a loser you must be!

[sally]

This is the start to a great thing.. Come see us at Foreclosures.

[Frank Lee]

Fuzzy, people might pay attention to you if you used proper English, wrote anything factual, contributed anything insightful and original, or just followed your own advice.
Spam, lies, harassment and cyberbullying will not erase the truth, no matter how hard you try.

You were childishly lying and you were caught...again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[Morning Yawn]

Are you tired of hearing about foreclosures?? Rising of falling, it is still the same painful hardsip on those loosing their home... http://typobounty.com/Funny/Foreclosure.htm

[Fuzzy Bear]

Frank Lee says: "You were childishly lying and you were caught...again. Wash, rinse, repeat."

Frank, try growing up and acting like an adult for a change! Your crybaby tatics just don't work!

All we here from you is the same old fecal material you produce over and over because you just do not understand basic economics! It's like you have a bad case of pyloric stenosis of continued fecal material that you repeat over and over when you cannot get your way!

When people reply back to you, all you do is whine back to the St. Petersburg times, Mr. Thorner these guys are cyberbullying me, wah wah!

What a pathetic excuse you are for a professional you claim to be. Do you simply get your thrills out of attacking end users/customers on this site?

The only message I get from you ends up as an id 10 t error message which is common from a person like you. In fact, all you do is waste my time and others on this site dealing with the repeated dung that comes from you and it is simply pathetic!

There is an old saying, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me! I doubt you understand the meaning!

In fact, you have never answered the question from Tino. Are foreclosures increasing or decreasing in Hillsborough county. The answer has been clear for those who understand the market and yes, they are increasing as Mr. Thorner clearly pointed out.

Perhaps you can learn from a 9 year old in the following link:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/04/eveningnews/main5525408.shtml?tag=contentBody;featuredPost-PE

As for the contiuous error I receive from your replies, ID 10 T, it is simply an interface error between you and your keyboard. ID 10 T stands for idiot!

It's time for you to grow up Frank Lee, we do not need unprofessionals like you wasting our time with your garbage replies! That is why the you were blocked from posting on thehousingbubbleblog.com!

[Tino]

This is the question that Mr. Lee refuses to answer because he doesn't understand how the process works:

If new lis pendens filings are larger than the number of lis pendens releases in a given period, is the foreclosure queue INCREASING or DECREASING?

[Dan]

Here we go again...

[Frank Lee]

Dan,

You see the pattern, right?

It's a shame this blog doesn't cover much on actual REAL ESTATE. It actually should be labeled a "Sales, Finance and Economics" or something to that effect. Ive seen nothing in the way of:

- Interior and exterior decoration/maintenance
- Landscaping advances/ideas
- Advances in building technologies
- Company exposés (real estate, builders, landscapers,lenders, pools, spas, screens, etc..)
- Upcoming neighborhoods
- Business property acquisitions (upcoming developments)

I'm sure some other professionals could chime in with more examples...those are just off the top of my head.

Thorner himself posted this blog was "meant to provoke debate". Unfortunately, his lack of policing and his presentation format are evidently designed for negativity and argument no matter the egregious violation. Page Clicks. That's all these people care about. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but the vitriol being created by this blog's poor example will ultimately lead to failure, in my opinion. It sets a poor example and leaves a bad taste. People get tired of spam, lies, narcissism, ego trips and ugliness. As long as Thorner allows "Tino" and "Fuzzy Bear" to continue their attacks and falsehoods unabated, well, what you see is what you get.

[James Thorner]

As Steve Martin used to say in that old SNL episode about the Czechoslovak brothers: "I Blame Myself". By writing this item, I didn't mean for you guys to reopen your can of night crawlers. Civility, please. As for Frank Lee's suggestions, those topics your list are all worthy but are A) Covered elsewhere very well, in print and on television, including our Saturday Home page; and B)Too time consuming for a working reporter - myself - to spend ALL my time chasing. I also keep tabs on automobiles, the lawyer business, economic development, etc. etc. But I'll keep an eye out for that stuff and link to stories written by other Times reporters on those topics. In the past that sort of stuff has drawn few "clicks" and I've adjusted my time accordingly.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Frank Says: " As long as Thorner allows "Tino" and "Fuzzy Bear" to continue their attacks and falsehoods unabated, well, what you see is what you get."

Take the advice and stop being a whiner Frank Lee. You are the one who acts like the resident whiner on this site when you do not get your way! Read your own replies and ask yourself, is this really from a person who claims to be professional?

It's time to DELETED and think about those cocky replies you write before you hit the enter key Frank Lee! That would solve the issue!

[Frank Lee]

Staying "on topic"...

You like to use the term "fun with stats"...I see you practice what you preach.

Your "article" above didn't bother factoring RELEASES. EFFECTIVE FILINGS were DOWN 2.2% according to HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY'S OWN WEBSITE for the same time periods you used. I have to label your information as plainly manipulated for negativity and not telling the WHOLE story.

Where did your "facts" originate? Why do they differ from the court's own website?

Here are the HC Court filings all the way through Jan. '08:

MONTH...LP...RELEASES...*EFFECTIVE...**RATIO
OCT.......3159...700...2459...22%
SEP.......3366...683...2683...20%
AUG.......2802...749...2053...27%
JUL.......2816...806...2010...29%
JUN.......2796...772...2024...28%
MAY.......2941...669...2272...23%
APR.......3402...699...2703...21%
MAR.......3236...580...2656...18%
FEB.......3231...686...2545...21%
JAN.......3036...712...2324...23%
DEC '08...3156...449...2707...14%
NOV.......2426...489...1937...20%
OCT.......3116...479...2637...15%
SEP.......3578...496...3082...14%
AUG.......2533...448...2085...18%
JUL.......2989...386...2603...13%
JUN.......2807...359...2448...13%
MAY.......3077...383...2694...12%
APR.......2630...379...2251...14%
MAR.......2584...382...2202...15%
FEB.......2597...357...2240...14%
JAN.......2352...343...2009...15%

* Effective = LP-REL
** Ratio = REL/LP

Verify: (use "Direct Name" on Party to avoid doubles) http://pubrec3.hillsclerk.com/oncore/Search.aspx

Effective Filings Jan '08 through Sep '08 = 21,614

Effective Filings Jan '09 through Sep '09 = 21,270

DOWN 1.6%

And the latest Stats...

Effective Filings Jan '08 through Oct '08 = 24,251

Effective Filings Jan '09 through Oct '09 = 23,729

EFFECTIVE FILINGS ARE NOW DOWN 2.2%

As a reminder...
"Foreclosures" is the act of actual bank repossession...don't confuse this with filings.

[Frank Lee]

So, let me get this straight...

You're too busy to cover actual real estate topics and opt for finance, sales, law and ...cars? This blog has real estate in the title, but the actual meat of the industry is covered in detail scattered throughout this website, print and completely different mediums (television)...but not in any blog that touts itself as a real estate forum.

Okayyyyyy.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Frank Says: "You're too busy to cover actual real estate topics"

I believe that James Thorner has done an excellent job of bringing out the issues in the realestate on this site!

I would also add that Mr. Thorner has not taken one side or the other and has reported on realestate topics both positive and negative. It is not the fault of James Thorner that a person dislikes the content of the articles he reports.

Those in special interest groups have often tried to influence the media in the past to their favor. However, James Thorner as I mentioned above has not taken one side or the other when he reports realestate news. Bottom line, if you dislike what is reported by Thorner, just don't read it. Same goes for comments on the blog. Why waste your time fighting an issue you cannot control?

[Tino]

All that complaining, and yet you still don't know how to answer my question.

Sad.

[Frank Lee]

"All that complaining, and yet you still don't know how to answer my question."

Oh, Tino...I'm so sorry. Are the links above not functional for you? Did you somehow miss every response to your fallacious "question" over the past several MONTHS?

[James Thorner]

Frank, Our bread and butter at the Times is LOCALISM. This blog has done a decent job covering LOCAL real estate. You're welcome to visit our competitors to see if they cover it better, reporter for reporter. I don't think they do. We have to pick and choose our topics. It's best to leave "How to save on your home AC costs" and "How to save water on xeriscaping" to the Home & Garden section. I do agree, however, that I could be a better story "consolidator" and bring all of my newspaper's locally written work into the Unreal Estate basket. But if you see our MONEY page, we do that already, so we'd be getting redundant. This site isn't about REAL ESTATE per se, it's about the topsy turvy real estate market around Tampa Bay. That's the reason for the "Unreal" in the title. Is that clear or should I write it in crayon?

[Fuzzy Bear]

"Oh, Tino...I'm so sorry. Are the links above not functional for you?"

Tino: I liken it to garbage in garbage out by the wannabe professional that can't grasps the basic local economics!

[Frank Lee]

Such hypocrisy....tisk tisk. I see you "civility" is a one-way comment. Shame on you!

You should invite EVERYONE to explore the competition since they may be doing a BETTER job.

Home and Garden? Give me a break.

Let me give you an example that YOU commented on not too long ago...

Grass. You commented on switching from your builder's planted St. Augustine to Bahia. Sounds lawn and garden, right? Not so fast. What about the REAL ESTATE side of that story? What about the UNREAL amount of lawn care you'll be spending cutting those tall seed shafts every four days? What about everyone planting St. Augustine (you know - the LOCAL grass), including the LOCAL governments, knowing darn well that this grass variety has some of the highest associated costs in watering, disease and pest control. And, allowing/passing continued neighborhood planned planting of the variety under record-setting drought restrictions. That UNREAL enough for you?

You want me to start reeling off more example off that list several posts above?

Seriously, if your jig is continued misrepresentation of lawyers, loan programs and court statistics for what few page clicks you *do* manage to get that aren't Tino's or Fuzzy's repetetive drivel, you're in a SAD state of creativity.

Don't be so surprised when someone calls you on your errors, Mr. Thorner.

[James Thorner]

Call away. I'm happy to admit any errors/failures. Clear and accurate information is my goal.

[Rob]

I am just curious. Is there even one person out there that sees things the way "Frank Lee" does? Other than Frank Lee of course.

[Frank Lee]

Okay then, Mr. Thorner...

1) Why have you not policed your blog according you your WRITTEN RULES regarding harassment, threats, abuse and inaccuracies?

2) Why have you not contacted the Hillsborough County Clerk's Manager over foreclosures (I think her name is Amanda, but don't hold me to this) and verified her statement to me: "There is no hearing queue". Don't you think this is a bold and telling statement?

3) Please answer the questions from my statistical post above: Where did your "facts" originate (who made your spreadsheet)? Why do they differ from the court's own website?

4) Please address THIS post: http://blogs.tampabay.com/realestate/2009/10/pinellas-county-chief-judge-irritated-by-foreclosure-lawyer-tactics.html?cid=6a00d83451b05569e20120a658a0dd970c#comment-6a00d83451b05569e20120a658a0dd970c
It must have slipped by your insanely busy schedule...I'm not faulting you, but I still want the clarification.

5) Why have you not reported the COURT'S version of how the foreclosure process actually works? Details please.

We'll start with those five and go from there. Up to you...

[James Thorner]

The Hillsborough foreclosure spreadsheet comes directly and personally from Hillsborough court administor Mike Bridenback.

[Tino]

"Did you somehow miss every response to your fallacious "question" over the past several MONTHS?"

You've attempted to indirectly answer my question about apples with some mumbo jumbo about oranges. With every further obfuscation, it becomes more clear that you are an embarrassment to the realtor community.

Frank, the fact that you continue to claim things such as "there is no queue" when Mr. Thorner's statistics clearly back up my assertions that the queue contains tens of thousands of cases makes you look like a pathetic whiner.

Shouldn't you be out charging a 7% commission to some old ladies somewhere?

[Dan]

Rob...

To be honest, I think all three (Frank, Fuzzy, and Tino) make valid points. However, it is so hard to find them between the "I'm right. No, I'm right" writing. I just wish they would all agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[Frank Lee]

Thorner,

You've ONLY partially answered question #3. You did NOT answer why they differ from their own website.

How about the other FOUR questions?

These will not go away, just so you know.

----

Tino, Your bogus "question" was DIRECTLY addressed several times. Spamming nonsense and repetition is a tired shill's tactic. I asked you at the top of this thread if you intended insult everyone with your repetitive falsehoods. It appears you've consistently given us a resounding YES.

[Rob]

Dan,
I certainly agree with you on the vaild points issue and on the agreeing to disagree. However, it would be great if this bickering went away and discussions were more civil.

I was particularly interested in the view point on whether or not the number of foreclosures are increasing or decreasing.

[Tino]

With unemployment skyrocketing to 10.2%, I'm sure that Mr. Lee and his ilk will be insisting that this is also going to lower default rates and foreclosures...

[Tino]

"Your bogus "question" was DIRECTLY addressed several times."

Can you please show me where you answered my question?

You see, that question is the entire essense of the foreclosure issue. No matter what special interest groups say to the contrary, the number of cases in the courts continues to rise as the number of homeowners fall behind on their mortgages. Yes, the number of new filings is going to fluctuate over short-term periods (no cases were filed on Sunday, therefore the rate is going down!!!), but every month for the past several years has shown an increase in the number of foreclosure cases very slowly working through the system.

These facts are not open to debate, yet you continue to deny them.

[Frank Lee]

"Can you please show me where you answered my question?"

Someone please hold Tino's hand for this...

http://blogs.tampabay.com/realestate/2009/08/quartermillion-homeowners-benefit-from-beneficence-of-fellow-taxpayers.html?cid=6a00d83451b05569e20120a5486edc970b#comment-6a00d83451b05569e20120a5486edc970b

"Your faulty question is not a matter of increasing or decreasing, it is a matter of the bottom line...which is how many Lis Pendens foreclosure cases actually make it to court before being settled or modified. This is a SIMPLE piece of investigative diligence that has not been covered by the blog author's reporting. If Thorner would check with the local area county's recorder and report those numbers and the six-month trends, instead of reposting often-shoddy 3rd-party press releases, THAT would be admirable."

>>>And to comment on the above paste...

While it would APPEAR Mr. Thorner posted information pertinent to this discussion, said information does NOT MATCH the records on the court's OWN WEBSITE, nor do they include RELEASES - only "New Cases Filed" which are Lis Pendens filings...not "foreclosures". James Thorner's article is nothing more than an egregious misrepresentation of statistics. You must understand the legal definitions in which Tino, Fuzzy Bear and James Thorner are dancing around.

"Foreclosures" are the act of actual bank repossession...the END of the line, so-to-speak....not the *beginning* of the process which is a Lis Pendens filing. Tino, Fuzzy and James Thorner assume that more filings mean more foreclosures. To those uninformed on the process, this would seem logical. The truth is, they are not factoring RELEASES, nor other forms of abatement. FYI, those statistics have DOUBLED on average over the past year. Tino insists that *I* claim there is no hearing queue. WRONG! I contacted the HC Recorder's office directly asking "How many cases are there in your foreclosure queue" and received back "There is no hearing queue"...(meaning they are heard on a case by case basis in no particular order because many never reach the end process), and, "If you want to track cases you can order the first 25 pages of a report for $25 and pay $1 per page afterward"...no thanks, I get the point. Their "queue" is not a funnel, it's a flour sifter.
Besides, you can keep up (supposedly) with the number of open cases with RealtyTrac, right?
http://www.realtytrac.com/mapsearch/fl/hillsborough-county-foreclosures.html
or
http://www.realtytrac.com/mapsearch/fl/pinellas-county-foreclosures.html
and
http://www.realtytrac.com/mapsearch/fl/pasco-county-foreclosures.html

Those links report FAR LESS than the others tout. Ask yourselves why? Are they inaccurate?
(just so you can keep up with the discussion, James Thorner is currently maintaining there are over 30,000 foreclosure cases in the Pinellas/Pasco system. RealtyTrac is reporting just over 13,000 total for both counties. Check the links!)

Check for yourselves ROB and DAN. The verifiable information is right in front of you.

One last comment going forward...

Besides the repeated requests for James Thorner to answer the five questions I've listed in the previous post, I think it should be reminded that there was a FORECLOSURE MORATORIUM executed this time last year that caused a severe drop in filings. It would be an almost certainty that any reports THIS year will likely show a monstrous increase for November. Get ready for some ridiculously over-hyped headlines next month. Fair warning!

[Tino]

Frank, it's a question that requires a single word answer. You provided several hundred that evade the question.

Keep up the good work!

Oh, and the latest foreclosure rate data listed on the blog shows yet another increase. That's gotta sting.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Frank Lee says: "1) Why have you not policed your blog according you your WRITTEN RULES regarding harassment, threats, abuse and inaccuracies?"

You are the most abusive person on this site. Follow the link below as you most certainly could learn from it!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/04/eveningnews/main5525408.shtml?tag=contentBody;featuredPost-PE