High court limits schools on race

In a ruling that appears to mark the end of the desegregation era, a divided U.S. Supreme Court said Thursday that voluntary integration plans in Seattle and Louisville were unconstitutional.

The court split 5-4, with Chief Justice John Roberts announcing the court's judgment. Justice Stephen Breyer wrote a dissent that was joined by the court's other three liberals. Read the full story.

The ruling affects school districts across the nation, including in Tampa Bay. Pinellas school officials have been waiting for the court's guidance as they devise a new plan to assign students to schools that will replace more than 30 years of strict race ratios.

In their work so far, officials had assumed the conservative court would strike down efforts to use race in assigning students to schools. School Board attorney Jim Robinson had already drafted the outlines of a memo to that effect. Moments after the ruling, he said he planned to issue the memo today.

In Hillsborough, where a choice plan has caused enrollment at several schools to become predominantly black, officials had been open to taking stronger steps to integrate schools if the high court allowed it. The ruling appears to end those conversations, though Justice Anthony Kennedy left the door open slightly in his concurring opinion. Kennedy said race may be a component of school district plans designed to achieve diversity.

He agreed with Roberts that the plans in Louisville and Seattle went too far. He said, however, that to the extent that Roberts' opinion could be interpreted as foreclosing the use of race in any circumstance, "I disagree with that reasoning."

-- Thomas C. Tobin, Times Staff Writer

Comments

[Jeff]

Good. Now Schools can concentrate on educating students and Stop playing musical chairs with student assignments.

[Julie]

If they are focused on creating diversity and balancing groups in schools, they should look at an integration of kids from different economic classes rather than races.

[Kenneth]

Julie - it would end up being the same thing. Economic class is so highly correlated with race as to be indistinguishable.

[roy anderson]

Thank God!!!
Now you can safely buy a house in a nice area without fear of your kid being bussed straight to the hood where they will be a racial target.

[Corky]

De Facto Segregation you dolts. Our kids segregate themselves. Ask anyone who has been in a school assembly or cafeteria. There are some exceptions, but the vast majority of kids will elect to associate with those of their own race. Not to exclude others, but to feel included themselves. Schools can't change human nature.
Let schools focus on teaching people to get along and the educational content. Get rid of all of these ridiculous stats, black vs. non-black. Stupid. Make the kids responsible for their own achievement. Don't allow or enable race to be used as a crutch. These kids will be working adults someday- they WILL have to get along with other races in business.
Bravo to the Court. Lets get these kids learning

[JR]

I think kids should just go to the school near them and be done with it. If you want your kids to go to a different school, move.

[bill]

Race and economics are highly correlated if you compare St Pete to Palm Harbor. Try Clearwater to Pinellas Park and you get a different picture.

Amen to you brother Corky!
You is so right, we is aways gettin the shaft and it just aint fair.
just bes with your own like the birds is being!!

[IP Freely]

This just in, the school system has announced that the IB program at Palm Harbor is now being moved to Lakewood.

[Bill]

Lakewood, eh? I'm sure that will make it a true magnet school. If this is the case, here is a bet: No change in demand to get into Palm Harbor, and, in short order, program will lose all the prestige it had.

[Dan]

I agree that it is about time this came about. It was ridiculous to watch the current "choice" system in all its supposed glory. For those who had little contact with schools, let me explain what was going on.

Parents would walk into the FEIC center to request a school close to their new home only to be told it was full, and they would have to accept the fact that their child would have to ride a bus to a school further away from their new home.

And then you would see another parent of another race walk into the FEIC center a couple minutes later and request the same school that was supposedly full and be accepted into that school.

The reasoning...the Race Quotas. Only certain numbers of people of each race were allowed at each school. This led to MILLIONS of Dollars of extra money being spent on busing.

Maybe now between this and watching how much money we spend on new school construction we can get a real reduction in our property tax rates (yeah, right--I'll believe that when I see it).

[Martavius]

Why you say dat Bill? Always be hatin. Whats so great about PHU anyway? Lots of chance to see a whiner white boy's brown eye when he don't get his way?

[Robin Fichtelberg]

As a parent of a Palm Harbor student I am outraged at this decision, how can the courts keep the world segregated? Is this Plassy vs. Ferguson all over again? Why, why, why? Won't someone Please Think of the Children!!

[shaun]

As a minority I am very disappointed to read some of the comments that have been posted. All this amounts to segregation that will once again be unequal. Unfortunately everyone is looking at how this affect them instead of how this affects our society and while we have come along way since the 60s there is still no doubt that schools in predominantly black neighborhoods have far less resources than those in white neighborhoods. So in order to allow whites to have the convince of being closer to home, black students will to get opportunities to improve there lives. Please tell me how that is fair because just thinking about it bring tears to my eyes.

[bill]

Shaun, what's the problem? Just because you're black doesn't mean you don't have access to a school, you just don't get preferential treatment because your group is represented less in a school.

Segregation based on race is a horrible thing (my opinion, and it's just an opinion), but intellectual segregation is another thing entirely. I'm all for intellectual segregation, but the only place you seem to see that is in private colleges.

[shaun]

Bill was it preferential treatment when blacks were bused into white schools in the 60s? They had schools to go to then too. If the school were equal then you would be right but the difference between predominantly white school and predominantly blacks schools today are similar to how they were in the 60s when the government forced integration. I guess blacks asking for the same educational opportunities as whites are them asking for preferential treatment?

[jeff]

Shaun, Why are/would predominantly black schools be inferior today? you tell us your opinion.

[shaun]

Predominantly black schools unfortunately have far less resources in terms of funding and in terms of qualified teachers.

[Trevar]

Um no shaun, school funding isn't accounted for by race. If anything they would receive more funding due to title 1.
Qualified teachers? what in your opinion makes for a qualified teacher? Remember a teacher can motivate and inspire, but in the end the student and parents are the responsible party. They must take advantage of the educational opportunity.

[Jeff]

Shaun are you saying that the School board provides less funding to predominately black schools, or is it that the "community" of parents, business and local government involvement that does not provide funds that "white" schools might have access to. From all the data I have seen these schools are funded at HIGHER levels in Pinellas. Mainly due to receiving Title one funds that other schools do not. As for less qualified Teachers, What can these schools due to retain Highly qualified teachers, Due these schools need incentives to get "good" teachers.

[wait]

Shaun may be right- especiallly if u consider all of the repair costs for the vandalism of brand new facilities at gibbs. That would make for inferior schools. Although- who is to blame for that?
QUIT BITCHING. Earn the grades. Earn the SAT Scores. Earn the college admission. Earn the Job. Earn the Promotion. Succeed at life

[Ed]

Unfortunately this is not really a black white thing, it's really a rich poor thing. There are plenty of poor folks of all races living in the hood. And the schools in the less affluent neighborhoods will always have less resources no matter how many white faces you bus in to them or brown faces you bus out.

[kat]

Thank you for pointing that out, Ed! It seems like all these parents are caught up in black/white when the students don't see in those terms... not many of them anyway. The question isn't black/white. It's whether we should invest money in the "poorer" neighborhoods, or ship those kids off to PHU where somebody else's mommy has to pay for it. Taxes, people. I know you don't wanna hear that.

[Ketch]

Shaun, thanks for the attempt at presenting the other side of the coin. I believe the original intention of racial integration was indeed an attempt at leveling an economic playing field since it is quite obvious that race and economic class are closely tied statistics. Unfortunately, hostile environments and lack of substantial surrounding community support create the conditions of which you speak....perception and in some cases, reality. The solution is not integration for the sake of diveristy, racial or economic. The solution is self-motivation. The least "privileged" classes need to make the commitment to do well in their own schools, get scholarships, graduate college and find a decent wage...preferrably teaching their own to do the same. Not standing around whining about their disposition. I think what the Supreme Court really said today is that the opportunities via grants/subsidies/scholarships and level school criteria are in place and have been for some time for those classes to dig themselves out...no excuses...stop relying on the others to share the burden. Time will tell if this was the right move. Well, if the media lets them test the theory, that is ;)

[Shaun]

First - to wait, I am not bitching. I am pointing out how the system is unfair and how this ruling will make it worse.

Second - Unfortunately the majority of predominantly black schools are in impoverished areas. This means that parents are not able to take part in the schools as much as they should because they are trying to make sure their families have food to eat and yes some of these families are white. So yea schools should be mixed not only on race but also on the financial situation of their families.

With that settled lets get back to the point at hand. Why is good to bus white kids to predominantly black schools and vice versa?
1.When white kids are bussed into black schools usually that means creating a magnet program at that black school. This usually means increasing the advance placement classes at that school and thus increasing the opportunities of the neighborhood kids (black and white). Also having these more affluent students expose poor kids to how those with recourses prepare for college.
2. When black kids are bused into white schools those students are able to be take advantage of the full resources of those more affluent schools. Also those white students get to see that all black kids do not fit the stereotype that see on TV. Also both group of students learn how to leave their comfort zone an work with each other.

[bill]

Shaun, what's the problem? Just because you're black doesn't mean you don't have access to a school, you just don't get preferential treatment because your group is represented less in a school.

Segregation based on race is a horrible thing (my opinion, and it's just an opinion), but intellectual segregation is another thing entirely. I'm all for intellectual segregation, but the only place you seem to see that is in private colleges.

[bill]

Shaun, what's the problem? Just because you're black doesn't mean you don't have access to a school, you just don't get preferential treatment because your group is represented less in a school.

Segregation based on race is a horrible thing (my opinion, and it's just an opinion), but intellectual segregation is another thing entirely. I'm all for intellectual segregation, but the only place you seem to see that is in private colleges.

[bill]

Shaun, what's the problem? Just because you're black doesn't mean you don't have access to a school, you just don't get preferential treatment because your group is represented less in a school.

Segregation based on race is a horrible thing (my opinion, and it's just an opinion), but intellectual segregation is another thing entirely. I'm all for intellectual segregation, but the only place you seem to see that is in private colleges.

[Shaun]

Bill, I am not saying blacks don't have access to schools I am just questioning the quality of those schools. Also are you questioning the intellect of blacks?

[jeff]

When I went to East Lake they bussed black kids in from Clearwater to go to school because our school was too white. They never were able to meet their quotas even with bussing and it was a nightmare for all the black kids that were bussed in from Condon Gardens.

They had to wake up earlier than the rest of us. It was more difficult for them to participate in extracurricular activities because of transportation issues. Most were taken away from their friends just because they needed to fill a racial quota. We're told that race shouldn't be a factor in things and I'm a big believer in that, but quotas make it very much a factor. The kids were taken miles from their homes just because they were black, just because people thought it important to force integration and not try to let it eventually happen on its own.

And there wasn't much integration. I only knew the people I had classes with. In the cafeteria people would segregate themselves. I doubt most of my classmates were racist, but its the nature of people to gravitate towards those more like you and that happened at East Lake. Did they get a better education than they would have gotten at Clearwater High? Maybe. I'm not sure if it was worth it.

The problem is far deeper than black/white or rich/poor. It can't be fixed by forcing integration of either group.

As for why schools down in St. Pete are likely worse, it has everything to do with the area. Do you think the best teachers would want to teach at a school that sits in a high crime area? A school that is heavily graffittied? A school where parents are not as active because they are working hard or are somewhat absentee?

Would you rather teach at East Lake, Palm Harbor, or Gibbs? Imagine you are a teacher and you also have a family. Do you really want to teach in St. Pete?

It's not about race. It's about safety and about the best environment. The inner cities are often out of order and its like that in poorer communities every where.

Yet many persevere and get out. A know some really nice people from the worst parts of East St. Louis. They had parent working hard. They lived in bad neighborhoods. They went to bad schools. A couple of them now have master's degrees and pull in six figures. Integration didn't cause that, their own effort did.

Black or white, rich or poor, this country rewards effort and perseverance. It is certainly harder for some, but there is help out there for those who want to work. The truth, though, is that so many on all sides don't want to put in the effort to succeed. It's not a black or white thing, it's a human thing.

[Quinn]

Well said Jeff
but having been involved in the school system- it is clear that the system doesn't reward effort. Ask any teacher. Life rewards effort.

[HateUsGoingBackwardsAgain]

I hate to see us going back to segregated schools. As a parent I like to see my child be part of a diverse student body.
Unfortunately, the problem is more an economic one and it should not be a school problem. The problem is that our neighborhoods are not integrated, we have developers building communities that only appeal to a certain economic class, we need developers provide housing in the same area to people of different economic levels. Unfortunately too many people will think their house will lose value if they have a much smaller house next to theirs. Developers, wake up and dare to do something different. Integrated neighborhoods mean integrated schools.
I hate for my child to go to an all black or an all white school. I want them to be exposed to different races, cultures etc ...
A school system should not have to deal with this problem. It is us who decides where we want to live and we decided to live segregated. It's a shame.

[LifePrincess]

Add this to your segregation debate. Let all the races go to the same public school and in the future we will take God out of it and your patriotism. And once we do that we will blame the families when it's not working. American families are overworked, underpaid and stressed out. They are the last line of defense and they are holding their ground the best way they can against sources that need to be idenfified and also debated. It is self-evident that God is the one who gives wisdom. Education and wisdom should go hand and hand. Our children are in a godless war zone and they are dropping out. What godly man or woman who hears a child cry out to be removed from the fire of a godless place would do nothing. If we segregated this time based on if you believe in God the american school system will be majority God loving and living. Please keep this in mind when you attend conferences and workshops. And encourage the public to allow private schools to be treated like public schools. Provide a way out for our children.

[Phuc van Nguyen]

Why is always worry about black boy and white boy? Who cares to look out for mexican and asian? No one care about us. Why? because our child is doing very well, because we have the high standard for them at home.
Maybe we need also to make law suit to get some attention- eh?

[Andrew D. Dingleberry]

I agree with Phuc.
It is not about race or how much money is thrown at fleeting education numbers. It is about the family structure and the parent support at home. When parents are involved in a childs life the student's scores are higher. It is simple!
How well will Elijah Dukes fatherless children do at school??

[Goader]

"American families are overworked, underpaid and stressed out. They are the last line of defense and they are holding their ground the best way they can against sources that need to be identified and also debated" (LifePrincess. June 2007). That is a most profound statement. American families are suffering from all of these conditions. As a nation, we must begin to address these issues before it is too late. It will be too late when China fulfills its potential, as it is a true sleeping giant.

Our nation worships profits in the form of money above all else including God. The practical definition of a corporation is to increase profits by any means legal or through loopholes. The Supreme Court gave corporations personhood; however, what they failed to foresee was the advantage corporations have over natural persons: they are virtually eternal giving them superhuman power. We need to rethink the corporate paradigm and shift it if necessary. Otherwise, the steady leaking away of individual autonomy will form a gush.

Remember, economic advantage at all costs allowed slavery to continue and decimate an entire class of people so many years ago. Many corporations that thrive today took full advantage of slavery, so that group needs to step up to the plate and offer practical solutions. In the meantime, we the people will judge their contributions and decide how the paradigm needs to shift.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Let's hear from some of the god-fearing people. Maybe it involves more thought than whether we should load buses with minorities and ship them to other schools.