ESOL issue is back

Retired Florida International associate professor Rosa Castro Feinberg, who's also chairwoman of the LULAC Florida Education Advisory Committee, has contacted the Gradebook to get out the word that a bill aimed at reducing ESOL training for reading specialists (SB 0286) has returned to the halls of Tallahassee.

The bill came under fire last session and Gov. Charlie Crist vetoed it. Castro Feinberg and her colleagues are angling for the same result again this time around. Here's what she has to say.

"The bill would harm English language learners (ELLs) as the ESOL training requirements for reading teachers with ELL students would be cut from 300 hours to 60 hours. Representative Heller is one of the six legislators who voted against SB 2512 (HB1219) last session. Florida's 234,000 ELL students would be affected were this bill to pass," she writes.

There are three meetings scheduled in Tallahassee this week on the bill.

• Monday (today), 3-5 p.m., Room 24 House Office Building, Joint Administrative Procedures Committee.
• Wednesday, 9 a.m., 110-S, Education Pre-K - 12.
• Friday, 8:20 a.m., Rm 110 SB, joint Ed PreK-12 and Ed Appropriations session.

Castro Feinberg continues:

"The facts of the matter as I understand them follow.

"In 1990, the legislature passed companion bills presented by Lincoln and Mario Diaz-Balart giving DOE authority to distribute ESOL funds and to issue regulations governing the conditions for receipt of those funds. This was part of the state's compliance with the order of the federal district judge in LULAC v State Board of Education.  That order and resulting state rules set the 300 hour training level for teachers of any of the language arts. ... More recently, legislative authority was established in FS 1003.56 (1)

"English language instruction for limited English proficient students is defined in 1003.56(1) and includes reading: 'Instruction in the English language shall be provided to limited English proficient students. Such instruction shall be designed to develop the student's mastery of the four language skills, including listening, speaking, reading, and writing, as rapidly as possible.'

"Teachers of the language arts must complete 300 hours of ESOL training to learn how to transmit their subject to students who don't speak English. Reading is one of the language arts. Therefore, the sponsor's claim that reading should be treated as though it were a non-language arts subject, for which the training requirement is only 60 hours, doesn't make sense."

Enrollment of ELL students by county is presented here.

The Gradebook posted previously on this issue here and here.

Comments

[Andrea]

I immigrated to the United States at the age of 11. I was told to go to ESOL classes and I refused. I felt that I would learn English if I stayed in the regular classes with those who already spoke English. Being sent to a classroom to interact with other non-english speakers was of no help to me. So, I agree with Timmy that immigrants have learned the language without ESOL and it feels as a great accomplishment to learn it. However, I am completely offended by Jenn-Jenn's comment: "...ESOL families... Shouldn't they care about their kids as much as we do?" What makes this person assume that immigrant parents don't care about their kids? These parents took the time to move to the US in pursuit of a better life for their family, they often have to take very low paying jobs and work long hours. They are doing their very best trying to adapt to a new culture. Teachers with high and mighty attitude as Jenn are not helpful!

[Jenn-Jenn]

Wow! I just found this site today, and I am quite impressed at the different sides of the table. I don't happen to take a side either way except for my students.

I teach middle school music in Osceola County, Central Florida. I focus on theory, chorus, and band. I won't anger the reading teachers any more by saying how many ESOL hours my specials colleagues and I are required to meet.

I feel the issue needs to be centered on our students. How can we help them succeed? Simply by being the best in our field as we can be. I strongly feel that ESOL students and native english speakers feel the barriers that the state is putting on them! Discrimination and a new type of racism are being developed within the classroom because of the "special" services our ESOL students receive. FCAT, FCAT, FCAT! That's all we as teachers hear about! Frankly, I don't care if a kid does well on an FCAT test or not. I'm one of those that can relate to the kids that don't do well on standardized tests.

While it's important to try to integrate our ESOL students into an effective learning environment, it seems like all of the pressure is put on the teachers and nothing is required of the families. It is wonderful that these families come to our country with their variety of culture, but at the same time, why should everyone have to forfeit their culture to accomodate these families. Still there are some families that are illegal who receive the benefits of our education system.

Why can't we trust the colleges to implement special teaching strategies within all areas of their educational degree? I learned more valuable information in courses that didn't apply to my career goals than I have in the ESOL in-service requirements.

Why can't the ESOL certification be included in the teaching certificate that needs to be renewed annually? Where is the money for ESOL certification going? I wonder because it doesn't seem to be coming into the classroom!

I have had two types of ESOL students in my classroom. Type A is the highly motivated group. They come to our schools speaking little or no english and within months are fluent because their families value a good education. Type B is the group that wants the advantage of a free ride. Some are fluent in english and pretend to not speak it so that they can slack off on the work.

If teachers should be required to get additional and reasonable amount of ESOL training, then the ESOL families should be required to do something as well. I feel for the teachers who have to take 300+ hours of ESOL Training especially without compensation after having to pay into program that may or may not apply to their classroom. I charge $30 for an hour of private lessons. If I had to give up that amount of time, I would be just as angry as the reading teacher and stepbystep teacher. When is someone going to stand up for the rights of the teachers? We work our tails off for these kids already. We invest in their lives daily. When we go home, the majority of us barely have enough energy to show interest in our own families.

There must be a way to find common ground. It should be a two-way street with as much effort from the ESOL families to help ensure their children's success. Shouldn't they care about their kids as much as we do?

[Heidi]

Correct me if I am wrong, but when teachers sign our contracts, we agree to the Consent Decree, which is part of Florida and federal law. We agree to become certified if/when we are targeted with ESOL students. We are not considered "highly qualified" until this is met. I therefore believe that the option to refuse to take the classes is wrong, because we have to by law. State and federal laws override this. (But I could be wrong. Please let me know if this is incorrect.)

That being said, it really should be a moot point. College of Education graduates are now getting these classes in their undergrad studies and graduate with the endorsement. The kids at USF do anyway. I had an intern this year who had already finished all of her classes. Think of it this way- we get the inservices for free. My intern had to PAY TUITION to get her endorsement!

I teach in Pasco county, and I have found several of the ESOL classes helpful, including the 3 online classes I have taken (I will have my 300 hours done at the end of this summer). I do not have to drive anywhere, arrange for babysitting, or even change out of my pajamas! They are very convenient!

As far as Fed Up being a reading specialist, that is a position YOU CHOSE and you knew that there were 5 classes you needed to take to get your reading endorsement. You also had those classes provided to you at no cost. I teach language arts (which includes reading) and do not have an ESOL para in my room, yet I still have to take the 300 hours ESOL as well. Is that fair for me? Maybe you should stop complaining about what is and is not fair to you and start thinking about what could be best for your students. Or do what Ms. Feinberg is doing and lobby for REAL change.

[janet jackson]

I have 24 banked esol hours.Does this mean that they are in excess of the 120 needed? I have already taken the state test and added ESOL to my certification. Also I believe some course work such as Kagan training and differentiated instruction count as esol equivalent courses. I would appreciate any ino you can give me.

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

We discussed the Consent Decree the other day on another Gradebook page.
We can move on to Florida statutes.
Here's the first one.

The ESOL statute (1003.56 F.S.) requires districts to provide qualified teachers for instruction in the English language for ESOL students. It explicitly defines that instruction to include reading.

1003.56 "English language instruction for limited English proficient students
1) Instruction in the English language shall be provided to limited English proficient students. Such instruction shall be designed to develop the student's mastery of the four language skills, including listening, speaking, reading, and writing, as rapidly as possible."

The Consent Decree and the statute contain the same requirement: provide instruction in the English language, including reading, to ESOL students.

The bill is practically a moot point. The DOE has agreed that it required credits that weren't actually required by law, by rule or by the consent decree on certain teachers. So, whether the bill passes or not, the standard for reading teachers will change in short order. I am sure the bill will pass, and the Governor will allow it to become law this time.

[esd]

Hi stepbystep:

No, it means you should complain to the appropriate folks that they're stupid. If the goal is to support children, then these professional development chances should be fruitful--not a hindrance. There is so much to gain from effective professional development in any realm. In this case, we're talking ESOL.

I can't imagine a Florida kindergarten class from a teacher who doesn't have a sound ESOL background. If your background is not sound, then it's time to yelp.

But don't undermine the Florida Consent Decree in the name of bad professional development. To do so is to undermine the value of the children for whom the decree is intended.

Instead, let's get the prof dev ducks in a row and make certain we're helping kids from all places in really good ways.

It sounds like your professional development is being handled irresponsibly, and I sympathize. However, to support this bill is also irresponsible.

Let's keep the decree, vote against SB 286, conduct good professional development, and help kids in ways that make everyone proud.

[stepbystep]

I am a Kindergarten teacher. I teach reading. I have been taking these stupid classes forever. Does this mean, I can stop???

[DMJ]

The DOE realizes this bill is needed as did the Senators from North, Central, and South Florida who voted for it as it passed the Senate this week. Supporters of HB491 support the rule of law. To be quite clear, the 300 hour requirement for reading NEVER EXISTED except in memo. There never was and there is not now a 300 hour requirement for reading teachers in statute or in the META agreement. DOE realizes this and is now making a rule (finally) for 60 hours. Law is made by the legislature as elected by the people. Law is not made by a Governor or advocacy groups.

[esd]

Actually, Fed Up, if your professional development were up to date (and I am sorry if your chances to garner assessment-related ESOL training wasn't effective; you'd have a real beef there if that's the case), you'd most likely understand the validity of reading scores with respect to ESOLers--that is, there really isn't too much, if any at all. Those test scores, so touted by the uneducated--or the uncaring--are not accurate reflections of one's ability to read. The result of these exams entails the result: "If you score a zero on this exam, you can't read." Of course, that's silly, especially for folks who can read to any degree in their home language. If you've got vocabulary in one language but not the other, then these tests don't work. So, Ms Feinberg doesn't refer to scores; she refers to our belief in whether ESOLers can read or not. Those are different concepts.

Furthermore, if we examine the nature of multiple choice reading exams, we're looking at a tool that has two options for use: 1) comparison of students - did students make or surpass some arbitrarily established cut score? or 2) diagnosis of student abilities - can a single student read on a particular topic in English - acknowledging that the native language consideration is not part of this equation?

So, if you take a reading test in a language you don't know very well, or even at all, does this test measure your ability to read at all -- namely that in your own language? Of course not! Ms Feinberg's statement refers to a valid description of reading performance. This does not equate a result on an invalid exam.

So, Fed Up, you're asking Ms Feinberg a different question.

If we really care about students . . . If we really care about children, then we'd use these exams as contributing considerations toward diagnosis upon which we develop portfolios and plans for the students. It's not hard to do.

Instead, these exams are used to compare. It's not rocket science to expect native speakers to have higher scores on these exams than English learners. That officials make these requirements is absolutely criminal.

At the recent Schools & Learning Council meeting in Tallahassee, the following statement was made:

Language impaired students who were born here and whose parents were born here have unmet needs because teachers are busy with inservice training requirements.

Impaired? Non-English speakers are broken?

More than half of the non-English speakers in the US are born in this country. And we dare to call them broken, impaired, problematic?

So, it appears that the supporters of HB 491 are in favor of comparing the non-native readers to the native readers on an assessment meant only for the latter. And then it's OK to use native-speaker reading practices for students learning more than just reading; they're also learning writing, listening, speaking, and all the cultural stuff that goes along with it. First language reading can't cover that large set of tasks. And when it comes to reading, a first language approach won't work as well as a second language approach.

But no one is talking about what happens to kids--kids trying to do everything well. Their task is double that of native speakers, and now we're asking teachers to give them less support.

Why? I can only imagine that supporting ESOLers is to upset the efficiency that a multiple choice exam conducted by today's instrumental reading teachers. ESOL children get in the way. Some teachers favoring this bill mention that these students won't make it anyway, bless their sweet brown eyes. That's pretty offensive rhetoric, and it's etched in a twisted form of sappy hatred.

Morals and democracy seem to be sacrificed in the name of the efficiency of these scores. That's a horrendous result to promote. And it keeps the native English speakers rich and the non-English speakers subservient.

So, please use these assessment pieces for diagnosing so that all students have a chance.

So, please join forces to create effective ESOL professional development practices for all teachers.

So, please remember that prospects (or lack thereof) for improved professional development is not a reason to hurt children.

So please call your legislators, and even the governor, to vote against this bill.

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

Ms. Feinberg why do you continue to post that? You and your cronies agree that ESOL students' scores have not been increasing since the implementation of ESOL requirements for teachers. YET, we are supposed to believe it is beneficial to keep taking these courses. How? The things that are effective in assiting ESOLers' language acquisition are not the same as those being taught. Why even bother coming here?

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

Tomorrow morning at 9:30 AM, the House Schools and Learning Council will vote on HB 0491. This bill is the companion to SB 0286.

The bill would drastically cut ESOL training requirements for Reading teachers with ESOL students. We can't expect to increase reading performance by decreasing teacher training. The teacher is the single most important aspect of the schools' influence on young people and teacher quality depends on teacher preparation and professional development.

Please ask the committee members to vote NO on HB 0421. Contact information for each Representative on the committee is at
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Committees/committeesdetail.aspx?SessionId=57&CommitteeId=2366 .

[stepbystep]

What do other states require in the way of inservice?

I would like to compare them to Florida.

[Fed UP reading teacher]

To Ms. Feinberg... me provide YOU with references?????? Are you kidding me? YOU are the "expert"! You are the one on here citing "studies" that prove this 300 hour is so beneficial... not me. I simply point out that no examination of any test data has shown these ESOL courses improve test scores. Whether YOU like it or not, that is what drives Florida education... it drives my school's grade, my bonues, and ultimately my job. So don't sit here and tell me to give you references. You have never given any solid reason why reading teachers should have to take 300 hours of ESOL. Never. Other than we need to have understand of the barriers to meaningful understanding LEP learners face. And guess what? I already understand that... and guess what else... I would be even more sympathetic if these ESOL courses weren't shoved down my throat for the "sake of the children". It's crap pure and simple. It's a money-creating vacuum... it keeps increasing, and it probably won't stop. After all, new teachers who graduate from universities in Florida will obtain their ESOL endorsements before they graduate. What will you do when the number of teachers needing ESOL courses declines? Lobby for increasing the 300 hours?

Show me the proof Ms. Feinberg from someone who is not interested in making money off my time.

[DMJ]

Ms. Feinberg sets the wrong standards. As she should know the minimum criteria is that the study or expert is peer reviewed.

Also someone noted. "He concluded that 60 hours of ESOL training, the extent of the training requirement for teachers of basic subjects (specified in the Consent Decree as science, math, social students and computer literacy ) is enough for reading teachers. They don't need to meet the 300-hour ESOL Endorsement training requirement." Let us remember that READING was classified as a basic core subject and the DOE admits it was not a 300 hour course. Why do you think Reading was an 18 hour requirement for years? It jumped from 18 to 300! Sorry. Dr. Smith realized that this was not correct. I still have that DOE memo saying reading is an 18 hour course and that it was "moved up" to 300 when reading became "important." Sorry DOE you cannot do that. You cannot violate the law.
Bravo to Dr. Smith for ending the era of made up rules. To quote a lawyer I spoke to recently, "There never was and is not now any rule for 300 hours for Reading." Looks like Dr. Smith confirmed this.

[DMJ]

Dr. Smith has ignored those who have flouted the law and finally exposed the agenda of language radicals. Dr. Smith also said he wants to open things up. He was stunned at the way the DOE had ignored the law and now wants to change it. The ESOL publishers like Ms. Feinberg think it is a matter of opinion when Dr. Smith correctly assessed that it was a matter of LAW. Ms. Feinberg states..."The Department of Education Commissioner, Dr. Eric Smith, ignored the requirements of the Consent Decree, Miami-Dade school system's opposition to the bill, and the governor's veto of the prior version of the bill." This is simply untrue. Dr. Smith realized that the DOE cannot enter into any agreement that violates the law. What is almost funny is that she says he "ignored" Miami-Dade. LOL Horrors! The Governnor ignored 99% of the counties with his veto. Dr. Smith agrees with almost all districts in the state. Who made Miami-Dade the center of the world? Let's get real.

[Rochelle]

January 7 10:08 PM Post from Fed Up Reading Teacher is the most honest view of the current situation for teachers, particularly new teachers or those on alternative certification paths. Thank you for reminding the blog community that ESOL is only ONE of the many training requirements.

Broward County began to implement the State's Crosswalks plan for teachers with the full Reading Endorsement. It's on the Broward website and on the DOE website. Credit for course hours taken for the Reading Endorsement is to be applied toward the ESOL Endorsement and then two courses are required and a Practicum which requires 3 lesson plans (something teachers do as part of their job). If you do not have an ELL (English Language Learner) enrolled in your class each year, then the training timeline extends for 6 years or more. The clock turns on and off, so to speak. Also, ESOL courses are banked and apply to any other area of certification. You'd be done by now and have two Endorsements. Massive misunderstandings prevail and there are no voices that seek to clarify, no opportunities to hear all sides of the issue, and find common ground on which to demand real changes that affect students and teachers. Instead, adversarial tactics and a divisive narrative prevail in blog spaces. The frustration with the big picture of teaching today as expressed by FedUp is completely understandable. It is truly a sad day for all teachers and ultimately hurts the students and the most vulnerable among them.

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

FURT, that sounds like a good idea. We'll swap references.

However, to be an acceptable research study on teaching reading to second language learners, the crucial condition is not whether the researchers are so widely sought after as experts that they are called on to publish or consult. The minimum criterion is that the group of subjects from which conclusions are drawn must actually include second language learners.

I look forward to your posting of studies that meet this standard.

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

Ms. Feinberg, Can you please provide me with a list of experts that have no affiliation with any publishing company that publishes ESOL materials or any company that has no advisory role or direct role in providing or designing ESOL in-service classes?

Then, I will be much more receptive to what you have to say.

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

Summary of Yesterday's Senate Committee Meeting

The bill passed in the Senate Pre-K-12 Education Committee with two votes against passage of the bill (Senators Bullard and Diaz de la Portilla) and one excused member (Senator Wilson). Senators Deutch,Wise, Gaetz, and Carlton voted for the bill. These results are encouraging, since both Senators Bullard and Diaz de la Portilla had voted for an identical bill (subsequently vetoed) last session in committee and in the full chamber vote.

The Department of Education Commissioner, Dr. Eric Smith, ignored the requirements of the Consent Decree, Miami-Dade school system's opposition to the bill, and the governor's veto of the prior version of the bill. He testified in support of the bill. He thereby reversed the position of his agency and supported the bill sponsored by the Chair of the Education Appropriations Committee, Senator Wise.

According to reports from those present at the meeting, Smith stated that teaching reading to native speakers of English is the same as teaching it to students who are learning the language. He concluded that 60 hours of ESOL training, the extent of the training requirement for teachers of basic subjects (specified in the Consent Decree as science, math, social students and computer literacy ) is enough for reading teachers. They don't need to meet the 300-hour ESOL Endorsement training requirement.

Comments on Commissioner Smith’s Statement

It is hardly surprising that a new agency head might try to start his term of office with positive relationships with legislators. What is startling is the rationale presented to support his position. It goes against the conclusions of a large body of research on teaching reading to second language learners and to the experience of classroom teachers. Perhaps he will be open to input by experts in teaching reading to second language learners and realize he has been misadvised.

The next vote on the bill will be on Jan. 23 or 24th. Those interested in affecting the outcome of the vote should call members of the Education Appropriations Committee.

Commitee members from this area are:

Siplin, Gary (Vice Chair) (D) 19 (850) 487-5190
Orange/Osceola

Constantine, Lee (R) 22 (850) 487-5050
Altamonte Springs (Seminole/Orange)

Dockery, Paula (R) 15 (850) 487-5040
Lakeland (Osceola, Polk, Lake, Sumter, Hernando)

[mrcarlhoward@hotmail.com]

Ok---Let me weigh in again and be clear. Orange County Public Schools requires an overview class for all new employees hired after a certain date—which is 60 in-service points or colloquially called “60 hours”—the remaining 300 hours listed at https://www.ocps.net/cs/multilingual/Documents/ESOL%20Training%20Technical%20Support/category_1_option_6.pdf are for 5 additional classes which are listed at that URL above with seat hours. However, when in-service points are awarded they total 300 points—or again, colloquially, “300 hours.” The overview and each of the 5 additional classes total 360 points or “360 hours” which includes some work done with reflection, projects, mandatory portfolios, research, interviews with students and others, etc. So, my dear friends, the total in-service points and/or hours of credit for an ESOL Endorsement is 360. It honestly is in part how you count them but to simply say 300 hours is very misleading and does require qualification.

Now, on to another point. There are many, many students in ESOL who have “passed” FCAT. Indeed, at one local high school there was a Valedictorian (or Salutatorian if memory fails) who was still in ESOL. Clearly that student needed no support or resources provided by an ESOL program designed for those Limited English Proficient students. If you take time to discuss the matter with community members and—God forbid—the students themselves you will shortly find that broad criticisms exist with the length of time it takes to exit an ESOL student from the program, despite broad consensus that services are no longer of benefit to the student. What is best for the student? Surely not continuing to force them to take Developmental Language classes when they are ready to spread their wings and fly!

So, how do we fix these problems? Two HUGE steps in fixing a lot of these problems is to pass the bills recently filed in Tallahassee: two bills have recently been introduced that will do a great service to teachers and taxpayers alike: S286 by Sen. Wise and S704 by Sen. Bennett.

Sen. Wise’s bill can be read here: http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Year=2008&BillNum=0286
It basically sets in-service requirements for teachers in statute instead of putting in-service requirements at the whim of bureaucrats. As refom bills go, the bill will not cost a lot---only about $100,000 in Orange County and presumably a lot less in smaller counties.

Sen. Bennett’s bill can be read here: http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Year=2008&BillNum=0704
It basically prevents the Dept of Education and other State agencies from continuing in a power grab and makes them stick to their job---to implement statute, not create it de facto. It will prevent agency heads and other state fat cats from gobbling greedily at the pot of power by going beyond their powers, functions and duties appropriately delegated by the Legislature.

What can YOU do? Two things: Contact your Senator and Representative who you can find at flsenate.gov or myfloridahouse.gov or I’m sure they are in your local phone book. Ask them to co-sponsor the bills or to offer similar bills in the Florida House of Representatives. The second thing you can do is to talk to your local teacher about her (or his) experience with ESOL---or better yet and God forbid talk to your neighbor who might have a child in an ESOL program and listen to their story. It’ll bring a tear to your eye.

[mrcarlhoward@hotmail.com]

Oh my goodness! Where to begin. The bill proposed by the honorable Senator Wise would only fix in place ESOL training for *reading* teachers at 60 hours. This is what we want. ESOL teachers are the ones who need all the ESOL training, not Reading teachers. Think about it…do English teachers need Chemistry training to teach English---maybe one class just to have the basics---and this is *exactly* what we are trying to get through with the ESOL reform—that is, to have Reading teachers take a basic class and then rely on their READING training to teach READING.

Also, there are a lot of people who claim that we must have teachers attain ESOL certification---well if you research who some of the people are who are crying most loudly about the need for ESOL certification they are the same people who are working for the publishers of book companies. A lot of the ESOL materials that teachers have to use for their classes are published by the same company! Of course they want more ESOL classes---they will sell more books!

Not to mention that the Dept of Education is on a power-grab. Under the departed Gov. Bush, the DOE abused and expanded its authority to the point that they have arbitrarily set ESOL in-service requirements at 300 or 360 hours for Reading teachers at their whim! Now, Gov. Crist and others are left cleaning up after the bloated, fetid bureaucrats at the most bloated and fetid-ness. They never went through public input sessions and other appropriate procedures before they just woke up one day and decided to make the life of teachers horrible by making them take 360 hours of classes that were in addition to the teachers’ regular certificates and degrees! Some teachers have PhDs in Reading and they are still told they must take another 360 hours of ESOL classes to teach Reading! This is analogous to having a teacher with a PhD in Chemistry take 360 hours of classes Poetry to teach Chemistry 101!

You know, I’m going to stop now because I will be typing all night---but I might weigh in again because there are a lot of abuses that the Department of Education is implementing.

[DMJ]

stepbystep you need to tell one of the lawyers this. Please email the following person your story and ask them to give you the email of one of the lawyers hired to end this silly dispute. We also have some breaking news from DOE today that you will like...!
I know several teachers in other counties who will not sign the document you mention and because of that they cannot be assigned LY students next year! But, that breaking news I mentioned will make your day....email.... MrCarlHoward@hotmail.com

Ask for the email for Tony- one of the lawyers you can also email pamcooper at
pam.cooper@floridaea.org
If you cannot get Tony's email let me know.
I am not sure how your county operates so talk to Tony before signing anything.(for legal advice)

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

To DMJ: Is the option of refusing to take the endorsement in writing? I ask because I am repeatedly asked to sign a document that states I will take x number of ESOL hours by X date. If I do not sign, or do not complete the classes, Hillsborough will suspend me and I will have no job. I have a child that I need to support, so I reluctantly agree.

However, if I can refuse, I will do so and write my letter tonight!

Thanks!

[stepbystep]

Today's vote was:

4 Yeas
2 Nays

In favor of SB0286

January 9, 2008

[DMJ]

You do not have the option of refusing LY students but you simply can refuse to do the endorsement and the LY students will have to be placed with another teacher. They cannot take away any certificate. Also someone pointed out that Palm Beach pays money for ESOL training....lol... yes, you have to do their program. $$ They will not let you do online programs approved by the DOE. Universities make A LOT of money by having a monopoly on training. We see it each day. Follow the money.

[stepbystep]

I have had only one ESOL student for 1 month in my life, but there sure are some wacky things going on:

Why can't a child be retained? sorry, just don't get it.

Child get's free "excused" pass from FCAT for 1 year, yet ESOL professional development classes have taught us it takes child 7 years to master English language. Why would we expect esol child to pass test after one year that many nativeEnglish speakers have difficulty passing after 9 years?

Rule discriminates against esol child who is really quite capable, but just not ready for FCAT.

Rule discriminates against teacher trying to receive "merit pay".

Rule discriminates against school trying to receive high school grade.

Rule discriminates against county trying to receive extra funding to improve schools.

Why aren't people like you, Mrs. Feinberg, out lobbying for more time for these children to learn English before taking FCAT? It seems as if it is taught in classes you back so passionately, you would also work to put it into practice for the children in the State of Florida.

[Fed up Reading teacher]

Thank you Timmy! I just wish more teachers would actually speak out. The public has become so accustomed to teachers donating their time, that when we voice legitimate complaints, we are seen as incompassionate jerks who only care about money and don't want to do what is best for the kids. It's time for that mentality to go. Teachers have be denigrated in Florida for so long, that I think that most just simply don't care to speak out, because we are too busy looking for other professions.

I have great test scores, my students love me, and I love them. However, I simply cannot take the ridiculous requirements that are consistently heaped upon me. I don't think the public actually realizes the amount of redundant requirements teachers must meet. ESOL is just one example. The reading endorsement is another.... however, I did find some great use for SOME of the courses. In addition to those classes, I have also take 600 hours ( I am not exaggerating!) of professional development in ESOL, reading, teaching children of poverty, ESE techniques, collaborative teaching, differentiated instruction etc... and I only have been teaching for FIVE years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I still have 120 hours of ESOL left. YAY ME!

[Timmy!]

Lest you think 'stepbystep' and 'fed up reading teacher' are in the minority: THEY ARE NOT!

They just happen to be rightfully angry and articulate.

Here's a thought: cancel all ESOL requirements and see if there is a measurable difference worth paying for.

[Fed up reading teacher]

One more thing: we do not have the ability to refuse LY students. If we do not take these courses, our teaching certificates will be suspended. Extortion at its finest!

[Fed up reading teacher]

To Ms. Feinburg: I teach in Hillsborough county and you tell me just how it is possible to accomplish 60 hours per year for five years (300 hours) during TWO inservice days per year???? That is how many inservice days we have. We have preplanning days but those are filled with other meetings people have dreamed up. You obviously have no idea what actually goes on. As for $12 per hour, there are JANITORS who are paid $12 per hour, but I, as a professional with a MASTER'S degree should be ok being paid $12 per hour??????? Are you kidding me?????????????????? And free daycare? Yeah, right! I don't even get a DISCOUNT at the county run daycares or preschools. The fact remains that educators did not become teachers for the money. They became teachers because they care about kids. That said, no teacher is going to actually balk at attending meaningful in-services. But it is clear there is a widespread, multiple county problem with these ESOL courses. Get real. Come actually see what goes on before you keep preaching the values of these courses.

[stepbystep]

$10 per hour?

$12 per hour?

I don't think so!

According to my salary schedule I am paid more than $40 an hour. In my little eyes, I consider this overtime. In the business world, I would be paid overtime for this. Say time and a half. In my little eyes, that would be equal to $60 an hour.

I charge that much for tutoring, I am giving that much up when I give up a job to sit in one of these classes.

Some of you might be happy, but this does not satisfy me. They are just more cookie crumbs.

I understand where a "teacher" who has not graduated from the college of education might need 300 hours of ESOL, however, I am fully certified. I have degrees in elementary education, early childhood education, and pre-k handicapped. I along with all of my colleagues have heard this stuff a million times.

Oh, by the way...have I told you the state has just told me I must now take an extra 30 hours. This means I am now up to a whopping 330 hours!!!

I am not feeling the love!

[stepbystep]

$10 per hour?

$12 per hour?

I don't think so!

According to my salary schedule I am paid more than $40 an hour. In my little eyes, I consider this overtime. In the business world, I would be paid overtime for this. Say time and a half. In my little eyes, that would be equal to $60 an hour.

I charge that much for tutoring, I am giving that much up when I give up a job to sit in one of these classes.

Some of you might be happy, but this does not satisfy me. They are just more cookie crumbs.

I understand where a "teacher" who has not graduated from the college of education might need 300 hours of ESOL, however, I am fully certified. I have degrees in elementary education, early childhood education, and pre-k handicapped. I along with all of my colleagues have heard this stuff a million times.

Oh, by the way...have I told you the state has just told me I must now take an extra 30 hours. This means I am now up to a whopping 330 hours!!!

I am not feeling the love!

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

Step by Step: Are you aware of teachers being paid for these classes anywhere in the state of Florida? Are classes ever offered during the school day?

Yes.

In Hillsborough, Professional Study/Training Days are designated.
In Manatee, participation in staff development activities during evenings and on weekends is compensated.

In Pasco, no teacher shall be required to attend staff development components after the regular school day. Compensation is provided for staff development activity. Personnel will be granted scheduled inservice days.

In Sarasota, inservice points may be translated into credit on the salary schedule. Inservice professional improvement activities may be scheduled on professional duty days. Substitutes may be provided for classroom teachers attending approved professional development activities during days in which school is in session. Mandated in-service training will occur only during the normal teacher duty day unless the activity was stipulated as a specific condition of employment prior to the teacher’s annual contract.

Teachers in Hernando receive $12.00 an hour, free day care, and a free lunch for participating in professional development sessions.

ESOL endorsed teachers in Citrus receive an ESOL supplement of $514.00.

Looking South:
Palm Beach pays the costs for hundreds of teachers to attend the necessary classes each semester to earn ESOL Endorsement. The district also offers supplemental payments for advanced degrees (Master’s degree, up to $3,000; Double Master’s to $4,500; Specialist, to $4,500; Doctorate, to $6,000).

Looking north to Clay, since many of the participants on this blog space seem to be from that district:
Inservice days are designated by the district. Travel reimbursement including in-county, out-of-county, per diem, and expenses is provided if approved in advance. Teachers required to complete ESOL training by enrollment in an on-line ESOL course shall be granted two days of Temporary Duty Elsewhere (TDE). With advance approval, teachers attending workshops after the normal school day will be paid a stipend of $10 per hour.

If your district does not offer these benefits, talk to your board members and union representatives. They craft the bargaining agreements that speak to these issues. Talk to your legislators about state wide salary and benefit increases. And right now, TODAY, please talk to the following legislators to ask them to vote NO on SB 0286 or leave a message in their answering machines. Implementation of that bill would hurt the children and do nothing to improve salaries or working conditions for teachers.

These are the area Senators to call:
Carlton, Lisa (R) 23 (850) 487-5081
Siplin, Gary (Vice Chair) (D) 19 (850) 487-5190
Constantine, Lee (R) 22 (850) 487-5050
Dockery, Paula (R) 15 (850) 487-5040

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

I'm surprised to hear your comments about ESOL inservice in Pasco, given the descriptions of professional development in that district that appear in union and district websites. In Pasco, each school principal will select a teacher representative to coordinate staff development activities at that school. The President of United School Employees of Pasco may elect to serve as co-chairperson of the Professional Staff Development Sub-committee of the District HRTD Committee. Teachers may serve as instructors for staff development components. Required staff development shall be reasonable in nature, duration, and scope including any follow-up activities, relevant, and in accordance with Florida’s Professional Development Protocol Standards. No teacher shall be required to attend staff development components after the regular school day. Compensation is provided for staff development activity. The district will develop alternate ESOL training which is provided in a teacher friendly, instructionally sound, and cost efficient manner. Personnel will be granted scheduled inservice days and provided with information regarding scheduled inservice programs.

Was the information on the web sites incorrect?

Some of you have obviously never sat through ESOL training inservices, or you would realize just how big of a waste of time they are. As a teacher, I have no problem attending inservices, as long as they have some value. ESOL classes have none.

I was honestly told in an ESOL class that if male Hispanic students came late to class, I had to allow it, as this was their "culture". This was one of the many "valuable" tips taught in these classes.

In Pasco county, we have a saying: ESOL stand for Easiest Settlement of Lawsuit. Nobody at the state level cares if ESOL classes are relevant; they just want to cover themselves in case they get sued, and thus 300 hours. Sadly, it's the students, all of them, who end up suffering.

[stepbystep]

Sorry about the re-post. I found out what "LY" means - LY = Limited English proficient and enrolled in classes specifically designed for LEP students;

[stepbystep]

If I do not take classes, they cannot give me "LY" students?

First of all, what are LY students...LOL, you can tell that those 196 hours have done me a lot of good, I don't even know the lingo.

[stepbystep]

If I do not take classes, they cannot give me "LY" students?

First of all, what are LY students...LOL, you can tell that those 196 hours have done me a lot of good, I don't even know the lingo.

Second, are you saying that if I am not certified, they can't place students of other languages in my class?

Does this mean, I am able to refuse to take a student of another language in my class if I am not certified?

[stepbystep]

still don't know what JAPC means.

[DMJ]

Whoops! Of course I mean "their" and not "there."

[DMJ]

to stepbystep-- and others

along with calling your local representatives please contact...

1. Sen. Gaetz-(850) 487-5009 (850) 897-5747

2. Sen. Wise- (904) 381-6000 (850) 487-5027 (His Aide Dee Alexander can tell you how to contact the lawyers and JAPC)

3. Rep. Carroll- (850) 488-5102 (904) 573-4994

**Also- remember if you do not take the classes they cannot give you the LY students- they are keeping kids from great teachers. That is there problem now huh?

*Please educate yourself and make a decision after speaking with the JAPC lawyers.

We need folks to start calling now and also flood the governor with requests to support SB286

[stepbystep]

You said those opposing SB286 would find major $ ramifications. Would this mean they have vested interests in teaching ESOL professional development classes in the State of Florida?

I noticed, when I read log of letters written to Governor Crist opposing elimination of 300 ESOL hours that most letter writers were businesses contracted to teach these ESOL classes.

In my humble opinion, I think those businesses are more interested in money than the children of the state of Florida.

[stepbystep]

Once again. I will begin class again in another week. So far, I have sat through 196, I repeat 196 hours of the same speech, week after week after week after week after week after week after week.

Nothing new has been learned. Nothing new was learned the first week. It has been a complete waste of time.

I believe that if Mrs. Feinberg actually sat in the same class I am in, or if Governor Crist sat in the same class I am in, thIS ESOL required class would be reduced to 4 hours within 10 minutes of their participation.

to step . . . JAPC is the Joint Administrative Procedures Committee.

I openly wonder how many of the advocates for the current system on the blog actively make a large portion of their income from that system. How many either provide the training or represent associations of members who provide the training? Actually, it might be easier to ask if any of the supporters of the current system are actually classroom teachers and not folks involved in providing the currently required training?

[stepbystep]

You said those opposing SB286 would find major $ ramifications. Would this mean they have vested interests in teaching ESOL professional development classes in the State of Florida?

I noticed, when I read log of letters written to Governor Crist that most of the letter writers were business owners of companies that taught ESOL classes.

In my humble opinion, I think those businesses are more interested in money than the children of the state of Florida.

[stepbystep]

Who are the attorneys I need to call. I need names, locations and phone numbers. E-mail address would also be helpful.

[stepbystep]

Who or what is JAPC?

I know ESOL, and I know DOE, but JAPC...that I don't know.

[DMJ]

To clear up this issue I urge folks to call the lawyers for that state and the JAPC. They clearly told the DOE that they made up the rules and broke state law. This is a legal issue for those supporting SB286. For those opposing, it has major $ ramifications if the DOE is forced to actually follow the law. Always look at motives here. DOE has seen some resignations after the lawyers for the state hammered them at JAPC. I am amazed that the DOE allows special interests to control them like this. Examine both sides and the law is clear. Call JAPC and amake up your own mind. I have no money riding on this issue like some, for example ESOL publishing mills at FIU, do. Support SB286 after you call the state and let them tell you why the DOE has broken the law. Let's all watch the DOE spend millions of taxpayer dollars to defend the lawsuit that could be settled by the new DOE administration in 5min.

[stepbystep]

You said teacher responsibilities differ subject to subject. Do we not ALL have responsibility to make sure children comprehend what we teach? Why then is there a difference in professional development hours?

How is it that teacher duties to students are not uniform? I am not clear on this. I see no difference in duties to esol student in elementary school and duties to esol student in say a P.E. high school class.

Are you trying to tell me that teachers of other classes do not need to teach students material that is both comprehensible and understandable? I find that very difficult to believe.

Are classes uniform throughout the state?

Classes I have taken have been redundant. The same exact thing for 196 hours. I have also been told there have been another 30 hours added to my 300 hours!

Who came up with this magic number of 300 hours?

Are you aware of teachers being paid for these classes anywhere in the state of Florida? Are classes ever offered during the school day?