ESOL issue is back

Retired Florida International associate professor Rosa Castro Feinberg, who's also chairwoman of the LULAC Florida Education Advisory Committee, has contacted the Gradebook to get out the word that a bill aimed at reducing ESOL training for reading specialists (SB 0286) has returned to the halls of Tallahassee.

The bill came under fire last session and Gov. Charlie Crist vetoed it. Castro Feinberg and her colleagues are angling for the same result again this time around. Here's what she has to say.

"The bill would harm English language learners (ELLs) as the ESOL training requirements for reading teachers with ELL students would be cut from 300 hours to 60 hours. Representative Heller is one of the six legislators who voted against SB 2512 (HB1219) last session. Florida's 234,000 ELL students would be affected were this bill to pass," she writes.

There are three meetings scheduled in Tallahassee this week on the bill.

• Monday (today), 3-5 p.m., Room 24 House Office Building, Joint Administrative Procedures Committee.
• Wednesday, 9 a.m., 110-S, Education Pre-K - 12.
• Friday, 8:20 a.m., Rm 110 SB, joint Ed PreK-12 and Ed Appropriations session.

Castro Feinberg continues:

"The facts of the matter as I understand them follow.

"In 1990, the legislature passed companion bills presented by Lincoln and Mario Diaz-Balart giving DOE authority to distribute ESOL funds and to issue regulations governing the conditions for receipt of those funds. This was part of the state's compliance with the order of the federal district judge in LULAC v State Board of Education.  That order and resulting state rules set the 300 hour training level for teachers of any of the language arts. ... More recently, legislative authority was established in FS 1003.56 (1)

"English language instruction for limited English proficient students is defined in 1003.56(1) and includes reading: 'Instruction in the English language shall be provided to limited English proficient students. Such instruction shall be designed to develop the student's mastery of the four language skills, including listening, speaking, reading, and writing, as rapidly as possible.'

"Teachers of the language arts must complete 300 hours of ESOL training to learn how to transmit their subject to students who don't speak English. Reading is one of the language arts. Therefore, the sponsor's claim that reading should be treated as though it were a non-language arts subject, for which the training requirement is only 60 hours, doesn't make sense."

Enrollment of ELL students by county is presented here.

The Gradebook posted previously on this issue here and here.

Comments

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

Step by Step, It must be disagreeable to do the right thing only to get "punished" for it. It must be equally disagreeable to have to meet standards that are more stringent than those set for some of your colleagues without knowing why the standards are not the same for all teachers.

The standards are not uniform because teachers’ primary responsibilities differ from subject to subject. The Consent Decree established the principle that all teachers in the state of Florida must be trained to impart their instruction to ESOL students. However, teachers’ duties to ESOL students are not uniform. Accordingly, the requirements differ by subject area category. Teachers of the language arts have dual responsibilities. They must provide instruction that is both comprehensible and understandable. In other words, they must provide access to the content they present and they must help the student acquire the English language. Teachers of all other subject areas have one major responsibility: to provide instruction in the content area that the ESOL student can understand despite limited proficiency in English. Therefore, teachers of the language arts need more ESOL training to be able to discharge their dual responsibilities than do teachers of other subjects, such as math or science.

These comments don’t shorten your drive time, or put money in your pocket, or even provide cookies. I hope they do offer the comfort of knowing there is a reason for the requirements. I hope you are in a position to observe and take pleasure in the progress made by the student who is getting helped because you identified the need for ESOL programming.

[stepbystep]

As of today, what is the status of the bill?

[stepbystep]

Here is my story. I have had one child in my classroom who did not speak English. I teach Kindergarten. Father spoke english, but did not write english. When he filled out survey, he did not fill out correctly.

Child was having difficulty in school. I could have quietly laid back and let child sit in room all year and fail, because she was not making it. I had been sending papers home in both spanish and english. When I needed to speak with mother or child about important matters I would call my friend on my cell phone and have her translate, so that everything was clear.

As I said, I could have been quiet about this and not said a thing. She would have been retained because she was not making it. However, I did the right thing. I called her father in and we went over the Language Survey again. He of course had not filled it out correctly. Child was sent to dedicated ESOL class.

I, however was flagged as being out of compliance. I had 156 hours of ESOL, not 300. So then parents in my classroom received a letter that said I was not qualified to teach their Kindergarten children.

So now I drive 25 miles, once a week, for not one single penny, between the hours of 4 p.m. and 7p.m. to listen to the same lecture over and over and over and over again. It is all sensitivity training.

I hate it! In fact, all it is doing is making me less sensitive to those who deserve esol!

[1st gen]

I am the first generation to be born in the US on my father's side. My father was born in Germany and moved here when he was 6. He spoke two languages in Germany. He didn't speak one word of English when he moved to rural 1950s North Carolina. Only my grandfather spoke limited English. My greatgrandmother learned flawless English in her 60s by watching soap operas. None of them had special help. By the end of the year, my aunt was skipped a grade and my dad later went to Ivy League. My dad speaks with no accent and later learned a total of four languages. Why must there be a special program for everything?! It's stuff like this that really angers me!

These classes sound like a waste of time for most teachers. I can't believe they are expected to give up that amount of time. Don't we underpay teachers enough? Now they have to essentially donate their time and pay $ for certs. Crazy.

[DMJ]

Anyone in doubt that the DOE made up the 300 hours for reading teachers can simply call JAPC and find out. Teachers need to make their voices heard and get others to call the governor and state legislature about passing SB286. It is not a matter of should or should not. The issue is over the illegal making up of rules by the DOE at the behest of special interest groups and others who are trying to control the state.

[stepbystep]

Anyone is welcome to come with me and sit in a class.

I personally must drive every single week, 20 miles to attend class...No gas reinbursement. Sit in ESOL class which is just another name for "sensitivity Training" from 4pm until 7pm.

Yes, I am opposed tho this. The coach down the street only needs to take 18 hours. Do you think he is "sensitive" to these kids? Hell no! I teach Kindergarten, I go out of my way. I send notes to parents in both languages, yet I must sit through this crap for no pay.

I don't want points!..I have like 700.

I don't want cookies or food for attending...I'm on a diet.

I want ESOL eliminated or I want cash for my time!

[stepbystep]

After looking at those who had much influence on Gov. Crist, they seem to be owners of businesses who contract out to teach these ESOL classes.

I do believe that this is not so much an "ideal" of taking care of the child as a "vested " interest!

Come on!!! Do they think we are flamingos that just flew into the jet?

[DMJ]

The issue is simple. The DOE made up the 300 hour rule for reading teachers.
I have a memo from DOE from 1990 which clearly states that Reading is an 18 hour requirement. I even have a quote from the DOE saying that as well. As was pointed out at the JAPC meeting, DOE has not followed the law in their fiats. Some must be unaware of the numerous opinions of lawyers that make up the basis of the lawsuit against the DOE.
As state legal counsel has pointed out, DOE did not have the authority to enter into any agreement that violated state law. This is what DOE did. Please get a recording of the recent JAPC meeting to see one of the lawyers statements. I am looking right now at a DOE memo listing Reading as an 18 hour requirement and let me quote DOE. "Reading was 18 hours but with the increased emphasis on it we decided to raise it to 300." The DOE cannot enter into any agreement that violates state law. When the DOE attorney said requirements have not changed in 17 years, the laughter was audible. I have proof they have.
I guess some are unaware of the lawsuit against DOE as well as the legislature telling the DOE, two weeks ago, that they "should be ashamed of the way" they make up rules and "run their department." (over the ESOL issue)
Keep your eyes on the ball. The legislature is telling DOE they have broken the law.

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

Fed Up, you make several points I agree with. Unfortunately, there is no bill I am aware of that addresses the problems you describe and some have solutions only at the local level.

For example, I agree that there should be no fee for adding ESOL to a certificate. I agree that inservice training should be useful. Toward that end, ESOL training materials should be updated and Train the Trainers and DOE monitoring sessions should be resumed. Why not ask your legislator to introduce a bill that requires those improvements? Why not ask your professional associations (the local chapters of the IRA, ASCD, PDK, Elem.Teachers Association, NCTE, etc.) to join you in that request?

If I were asked to sit for three hours in a child-sized desk I would 1) move that desk into the hallway and bring a folding camp chair to use instead, and 2) complain to my school board member. Every year, school boards approve an inservice training plan for the year. Board members, therefore, need to know if a trainer is not qualified or if the facilities are not adequate. If you don't tell them, they won't know.

I'm sorry to spend so much time off topic. This discussion is supposed to be about SB 0286 and the needs of English language learners. However, I thought your points about improving inservice training and teachers' working conditions were important so I hope I can be forgiven for going off on a tangent.

[Timmy!]

This is nothing more than a dance thru the politico-educational maze. "Fed-up" has the typical and authentic response to this travesty.

How many of us were raised by parents of immigrants who came here and learned the language? Sure it was hard but they were successful on their own. Their self-esteem was based on overcoming each little (and sometimes huge) obstacle. They still "speak the language" but are english-capable.

To require participation in a "program" who's results are questionable is ceding control of your life to an agency.

Anyone with training and experience in reading KNOWS how useless the ESOL certification is. Its mind-numbing redundancy of basic reading techniques masquerading as ESOL specific best practices is educational water boarding!

[Fed up reading Teacher]

To Ms. Feinberg, while your son may take his "inservice" classes, I am pretty sure his "inservice" classes are actually RELEVANT to his job. I am also pretty sure, he doesn't go sit in child-size desks three hours a night and listen to presenters who have never actually practiced law tell him how to do his job. I also doubt he takes duplicate trainings EVERY year, twice, even three times a year just to cover his bosses' butts. Your point (and every other pro-ESOLer) is null--you have no evidence to back up this 300 hour requirement's effectiveness. Florida is at the forefront with evidence-based initiatives--merit pay, school penalties for not meeting certain benchmarks. Yet, for some reason, no one has ever even questioned whether these classes are effective. Why is that? How much money is used for lobbying efforts? What would happen to YOUR job Ms. Feinberg if this requirement were lowered?? Florida already allows reading teachers to skip 120 esol hours if they have their reading endorsements---------- which they MUST have, so why bother even have this 300 hour requirement if they just exempt it anyway? Because it provides countless employment opportunities for people like you and Mr. Dwyer. Funny how money talks and EVIDENCE walks in this case, huh????

If you want to compare teachers to attorneys, then how about starting to treat teachers with the same professional respect? How about using your high horse to advocate for a living wage that allows teachers to work only one job and not go wait tables in the afternoon (the same jobs YOUR precious ESOL programs take time away from). How about actually consulting teachers in developing EFFECTIVE ESOl trainings? How about providing funding for these programs? How about demanding FREE certification for ESOL? Oh wait, that doesn't get you any money, so it isn't worth your time.

Nothing makes me look forward to going back to college like this stuff.

ESOL classes, and the way they are handled, are a joke. I have learned nothing in them other than how to b.s. my way through mindless classes. Should teachers have some kind of training for the ELL students? Sure. My only beef is that it should be useful.

Sometimes, taking the certification test is not an option. Rumor has it that when you add an additional certification, you have to maintain it by taking more in-services and renewing every five years at $75 a pop. Endorsements don't work that way -- you get it and it's there forever. (Or so I hear.)

Oh! And let's not forget that many ELL students aren't even IN regular ed classes. They go to a special teacher for those subjects. I've taught reading and language arts for years and I've only had students who were well past needing any ELL assistance.

There isn't a teacher in Florida who would want to deny education to a child because of language barriers, but no one can stand ESOL classes and requirements. Face it: the system is farked.

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

Fed Up: "In no other profession would professionals be expected to provide 300 hours of their time for free."

My son is an attorney. Every year, he must take courses. He isn't paid extra for the time he spends in class and the training sessions are not free. Lawyers (or their firms) have to pay for their "inservice training". Isn't the same thing true of medical doctors, accountants, engineers, psychologists, real estate agents, cosmetologists, and other professions and occupations?

[Rochelle]

There are many endorsements that require 300 hours in the State of Florida. The Reading Endorsement is one and has received millions of dollars of funding. Teachers have complained about that training and its benefits. Given the investment, results remain lackluster. However, there is no drumbeat to reduce Reading training.

ESOL training was designed to ensure that teachers responsible for English language development would provide effective instruction. It is a school district responsibility to provide quality inservice opportunities no matter what the subject. Any teacher that gets two courses of legal history and research is not getting a quality experience.

I end here by repeating that solutions-driven leadership is required to ensure that ELLs receive instruction from highly-qualified teachers. The focus must be on what the students need to be successful in school.

[Fed Up reading Teacher]

You can always tell when someone has no actual facts to back themselves up when they resort to name calling as in Dwyer's rant on my lack of math training! Fabulous! While Dwyer's list of "facts" may seem impressive, his talk of "bi-lingual education" and the facts that ESOLers should not take the same tests as English speakers does NOTHING to explain why teachers should take 300 hours in ESOL courses. They don't teach Bi-lingual education... they don't give us the option to administer a different FCAT version, so what is the purpse of your post Mr. Dwyer? To further justify your job as a Modern Language Education and TESOL professor? IF as you say, ESOL courses are designed to give us some "compassion" for our students (which as an educator I clearly lacked, after all, I went into education for the money and prestige!). Get real Mr. Dwyer--the 300 hour ESOL course provides little of value---maybe your $150/hour courses at FIU do---but district trainings offer nothing. If bi-lingual education is the cure-all, then why not require teachers to be proficient in other languages???? Why require them to sit in five 60 hour courses to read court cases, research, and the like? Where are the actual strategies?

[Eric Dwyer]

My goodness! Well, that settles it. Our “fed up” friend wins. “Fed up” is absolutely 100 percent correct with respect to these professional development courses. Clearly they are a waste. After all, Fed Up took the ESOL Endorsement 300 hours, spent all that money, and for some odd reason didn’t get the conversations regarding

• states who compared this year’s third grade scores to last year’s third grade scores, when even more ESOLers entered the system, taking the test for the very first time;

• Collier/Thomas’s nearly two-decade long longitudinal look at high stakes test scores with respect to programs, showing that two-way bilingual schools kick butt while most transitional ESL programs—much like those we have in Florida—come up way short (and yes, the two-way bilingual schools in Florida also tend to kick major butt);

• the notion that ESOL scores are not predicted to increase but rather to decrease, simply because there are so many more ESOLers coming in—both those immigrating to the States as well as the many who were born in the US—and they’re all taking these tests;

• that conversation that shows that academic language isn’t learned so quickly, and yet we test ESOLers before they’re ready, giving them accommodations that won’t ultimately affect their performance very much, thereby leaving their FCAT scores unsatisfying;

• compassionless people who blame these children for depletions in funds to schools with increasing populations of ESOLers—schools whose noble teachers are simply following the Hypocratic Oath that Lau vs Nichols promised—schools that don’t shy away from the prospects of giving as many children a chance as possible—schools who understand that some children make their school brighter, more interesting, and more fostering of critical thinking and deep learning—schools who can show progress of all students, including ESOLers, by showing off their capabilities in portfolios, especially those including attention to their language brokering experiences—schools who showcase evidence of ESOLers’ progress qualitatively even when those composite school scores do go down;

• high stakes tests as being invalid for non-English speakers because the test becomes a language proficiency exam rather than a valid assessment of one’s reading;

and

• the concept that ESOLers taking an English-based exam and English-speakers taking a Zulu-language-based exam should conceptually come out with even scores— though of course in Florida those native English speakers never experience that sort of disadvantage—unless they work through a well-run two-way bilingual school.

I’m with Fed Up. Fed Up didn’t get any of these messages in those expensive professional development courses,

nor did Fed Up have reasonable math classes in junior high school.

I’m with Fed Up. It’s time to bark about those professional development sessions. Those presenters did not do their job.

Indeed, Fed Up has a legitimate gripe!

[Rochelle]

Fed up makes excellent points about test data and that is why President Bush through NCLB required every State four or five years ago to implement a test that will track ELLs language development. Florida is one of the last states to comply with this new federal requirement and will soon implement CELLA, a federally approved test. FCAT test scores are high stakes for all students in Florida and does not provide data from which schools and teachers can address the needs of ELLs with regard to language development. Once the appropriate type of testing is in place, we may at last be able to indicate the effectiveness of school programs and their training.

[Fed up reading teacher]

In response to the above comments: Let's say my complaints are just a "rant" and let's look at the evidence. ESOL requirements have been in effect since 1990, yet no test data has ever indicated they are successful in raising ELL student's test scores. Yet, the argument seems to be to keep the requirement because basically something is better than nothing. That hardly seems like a valid reason for the state of Fl to keep this requirement. How much tax dollars are spent in providing these courses? Why is there no accountability? Even if my district is an anomoly in its lackluster training, it does not explain why test scores STATEWIDE are stagnant.

Also, keep in mind the requirement is not being taken away; its simply being dropped to 60 hours. Perhaps the state should focus on elliminating the ESOL courses that provide no strategies; such as the TWO classes that detail the HISTORY of ESOL classes and lawsuits; and focus on the ones with actual PROVEN effective training? How does remember Lau vs. Nichols enable me to provide better instruction to ELL students?

Remember, there is no data that indicates these courses are effective. Stop beating a dead horse. Its time to find a new horse--

[Eric Dwyer]

Hi "fed up":

It sounds you're fed up with her ESOL teacher training class, but not the policy.

Well, I'd like to sit in on those classes with you to see how effective they might be. I suspect that you're right, and that this class might be a waste. That would be a pity since the end result would be that you're no better off than you were before.

You should complain

1) because your training is terrible,

2) because your colleague has been singled out haphazardly as now needing the training when someone next door might already have it (thereby allowing a person with more expertise to work with the ESOLer more immediately), and

3) because the right people haven't paid for your dedicated updating and upkeep.

These are pretty legitimate reasons to squawk.

But they're not reasons to promote this bill because the bill would squash an abundance of opportunities for ESOLers to work with folks with expertise at all. If you're for ESOLers getting appropriate attention, then you should be against this bill.

And with or without this bill, you should still bark about the training you're getting. Believe me; if the training is rotten and a waste of dollars and time, I'm right there with you.

But if this bill goes through, it's really going to hurt kids. If the bill goes through, the ESOLer kids go from having not to so much to almost nothing at all. And believe me, your school situation, as more and more non-English speaking children come into the schools--most of them born in the US--will get worse. If no one gets trained appropriately, those increasing numbers of kids get less of what is even now minimally required, and the ambiance and prospects of improvement in your school deplete.

I really think you're correct to scream.

But you don't want this bill.

The ramifications are absolutely terrifying.

[Rochelle]

It is crystal clear that school districts have a problem in both providing the correct information about the training requirement, offering the classes as conveniently as possible, and providing meaningful training experiences. The "rants" here are examples that the facts are not understood and implemented properly. The reason teachers are unhappy and leave is because they do absolutely feel underappreciated, undercompensated, and overworked. The root cause is not ESOL.

It is absolutely true that it takes time for ELLs to learn to read, write, speak, and understand the English language. But it also requires competent teachers. I advocate on behalf of the students, the teachers, and for credible solutions. Now if only the legislators and DOE were as interested in student achievement and teachers as they are in numbers, percentages, and uniformity. We need a solutions-driven leadership.

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

I totally agree 2:08! I don't think there is a teacher out there that objects to ESOl students receiving appropriate education. That said, when is enough enough? Why keep beating a dead horse? Clearly, these ESOL classes aren't working.... any close examination of test data will verify that fact. ESOL students still perform poorly and has anyone ever thought that, just maybe, it is because they don't speak English? How is me sitting in 300 hours of classes, wasting $6600 of my time going to teach them English? Good teaching strategies can help, but they are not a magic wand. Learning English does take time, sometimes their whole school years. I know of teachers who because they had ONE ESOL student are now stuck doing 300 hours of service. What is the point? ESOL advocates keep blabbing that is for the kids, but I can tell you that me sitting in those classes does nothing more than make me mad and resentful. I'm surprised teachers haven't been required to learn another language yet, but I'm sure it's coming. And for subsidized? Sure they provide the classes, but they do not compensate my time nor is it part of my school day. Its after school, 3 hours a night. Its ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What about my additional childcare or my family time? And for what? Nothing as far as I am concerned. I wish some of these ESOL advocates would sit through these classes and then do 300 hours of it, so they could see just how useful it is.

Joyce indicates that she is concerned about the performance of ESOL students.

I would suggest the following: 1) in the district that I work for, ESOL students are generally on par after two years of being FCAT eligible especially as related to the percentages of students making AYP; and, 2) if nearly 15 years of having this requirement hasn't done anything of value, maybe the classes that you or your peers make big bucks off of offering aren't worth much.

I would lean toward the first comment. But after 15 years, we need to find a better way to offer this training than to wait for our workforce to get to our classes. If everyone needs it, it should be part of the regular education provided for certified teachers and not an add-on at all.

[Eric Dwyer]

Sorry, but ESOL classes are no joke.

I'm glad that this issue is raising some issues and emotions. All these will be important as we work through the difficulties.

I sympathize with those teachers who are bombarded with professional development requirements which seem excessive. As with most professional development of any sort, it's not worthwhile if it doesn't seem relevant.

If you have a beef with the classes, you have a beef with the classes (probably a legitimate complaint).

However . . .

Reading endorsement isn't necessarily relevant to ESOL issues. Furthermore, if teachers are choosing one certification over the other, they are choosing native English speaking students over non-native speakers, and that's just plain discrimination, considering the enormous numbers of students we teach in this state who are learning English--well over a quarter million. Add in the families, and you're leaving out a million people who contribute to Florida. We really don't have that choice, and frankly our lives are unbelievably more vibrant and full when we choose to include these folks.

On the other hand, if we have teachers who do wish to make these kinds of choices, I don't want them teaching any child in Florida, native English speaking or otherwise. This stuff is not common sense.

By the way, according to the consent decree, this kind of professional development is to be subsidized. So, there's someone to bark to if teachers are forking out their own money on these training sessions.

Finally, it'll be important to register that a Level 2 or 3 person, as determined by FCAT, isn't necessarily a Level 2 or 3 ESOLer. Those designations depend upon any number of assessments. I mention this because it's a prototypical example of how Reading and ESOL are not congruent, not similar, and demand extra attention.

I do support the non-ESOL supporters in one way. I agree that we should start looking toward the folks who really have the expertise. I'm not sure we can make all teachers complete Renaissance instructors--folks who are good at pretty much everything. That goal does indeed seem too lofty.

Nevertheless, its loftiness should not preclude a law that helps all students learn to read English. Nor should loftiness eradicate standards.

Senate Bill 286 will assert that complete erasure of this prospect, and that'll hurt not only new English learners. In the long run, should this bill pass, it'll hurt pretty much everyone.

This is a very bad bill. Please alert your community leaders that it's imperative that we stop it.

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

I am in Hillsborough and this issue is very relevant to me because I just got notice that I have to take another 120 hours before the summer ends. And for what? I have only a few two-year follow ups and I still have to take 300 hours. I don't even teach the lower level readings. I teach students who are levels 2 and 3. And I was just told that, despite spending 300 hours in reading endorsement classes, that I have to do the ESOL as well. Its ridiculous. Let the people who want to teach ESOL spend their time. Personally, I teach students who are grade level--- and the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of them do not have language issues. Florida is already short teachers. I am getting my master's degree and then I'm out of education--not because I don't enjoy it but because its underappreciated, undercompensated, and overworked and this ESOL requirement is just another example. So I hope you ESOL advocates are happy.

[Rochelle Cisneros]

Fed reading teacher does not identify the school district and I certainly empathize with the frustration expressed. It seems as though the school district is not providing the correct information nor quality training. First, no teacher in Florida is required to take the training if there are NO ESOL students assigned to their classes. Secondly, reading teachers are NOT required to take an additional 300 hours according to the DOE website and explanation of CROSSWALKS. Are school districts not up-to-date? And finally, school districts have the responsibility to ensure quality training. If that is not happening, it's a local issue. Teachers should expect to participate in a training where the trainer is experienced, qualified, and increases instructional effectiveness. There is something very different about teaching reading to native speakers and to second langugage learners.

Also, at one time ESOL was added for FREE to certifications, but the DOE reversed that and the legislature has not done anything to correct that either. Millions have been poured into a new reading initiative nationally and in this State; some of that money could have been earmarked for reducing such burdens on teachers. While many continue to talk about rules, numbers, hours, and scores, I am still waiting for someone to talk about the needs of STUDENTS learning English to be successful in school. There is no question of the correlation between prepared teachers and positive outcomes. If the training is not adequate, fix the training.

[Fed reading teacher]

I do not disagree that English learners must have qualified teachers, I don't see how forcing teachers to donate almost $7000 of their time (time they could be earning money to supplement Florida's weak teacher salaries) is going to be beneficial. I have learned nothing from these courses other than disdain for ESOL in general. I also don't see why I should be forced to pay for additional certification (and the testing fee if I choose your exam option) for something I don't want and frankly, do not need. You said yourself that ESOL students don't as well on tests as other students, and the ESOL requirement has been in effect since 1990. If this is such a WONDERFUL and BENEFICIAL idea, than why has it not paid off in test scores and the like? Do I really need 300 hours to tell me to provide real-life examples, have translating dictionaries available, offer shortened assignments, pair non speakers with students who are BI-lingual, provide picture cues and the like? How much is common sense and how much is it cover-their-liabilities on behalf of the state?

[Joyce Nutta]

I am very concerned about English language learners' academic achievement, which lags behind other students on measures such as the FCAT. Good reading skills are essential for achievement in any academic subject, so English language learners need reading teachers who have specialized training in second language reading research and practice. Different districts in Florida use different instructional models for English language learners--some students are taught reading by an ESOL teacher/specialist, and others are taught by a generalist reading teacher. For either case, it is imperative that the teacher have the requisite knowledge and skills to help raise English language learners' reading levels. Reading teachers are required to complete the ESOL endorsement, which does not required an additional 300 hours. 180 hours are waived due to overlap in the two areas, leaving 120 hours, or two courses. If reading teachers wish to avoid taking the two courses, they can take the ESOL certification exam and meet the requirement without taking any ESOL coursework (their 180 hours of overlap qualifies them to sit for the exam). I do agree that some of the ESOL training needs improvement, and ESOL and reading specialists are beginning to collaborate to do so. Let's put the children first and make sure that they have the best qualified teachers to help them achieve!

[Fed up reading Teacher Pt.2]

A few things I neglected to mention in my earlier post. 1) Science teachers who actually have ELL students who come with their own special bilingual aids, only have to take 15 hours, but I, who have only ESOL students on two year follow-ups, must take 300 hours.

2) After I take my 300 hours, I must pay $75 dollars to have it added it onto my certificate--for something I don't need nor want, but am forced to take by a consent decree that was signed for a lawsuit that was eventually thrown out! You add that to the other things I am FORCED to be certified in (reading endorsement, language arts, ESE) and you have $375 in certification fees, plus $75 each five years.

And Florida actually wonders why they can't find QUALIFIED teachers.

[Fed up reading teacher]

ESOL classes are a joke. Reading teacher not only have to have reading endorsement (which is also 300 hours), but also 300 hours of UNPAID training. Most of the ESOL classes I sit through are useless. They offer little useful strategies and more of a "sit here until 3 hours passes" classes. In no other profession would professionals be expected to provide 300 hours of their time for free; which at the average of $22 per hour amounts to over $6600! And for what? So we can help students who don't speak English? Students who dont' speak English don't even have my class because they take ELL reading, but I still have to take these stupid classes! It's a waste of time and money and this is why the state has a shortage of qualified reading teachers. Take a look at the reading scores of ELL students and see just how effective this 300 hours is.... it's not!