Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Darwinism?

By leaving no room for other philosophical perspectives, Florida's proposed new science standards cross the line between science and faith and may violate the constitutional separation of church and state, says the attorney who represented Terri Schiavo's parents and siblings.

Pinellas attorney David C. Gibbs III makes his case in a legal memo he sent to the state Board of Education last month. Another lawyer in his firm told The Gradebook the memo will be updated today.

"Making Evolution the fundamental concept by which all life-science is interpreted or understood limits the scope of scientific inquiry and demands that all biological inquiry be predicated on the evolutionary hypothesis," writes Gibbs, who co-wrote the memo with Francis C. Grubbs, a curriculum specialist who works as a consultant for Gibbs' law firm and the Christian Law Association.

"Making this gigantic jump moves the evolutionary hypothesis from the realm of science into a philosophical faith-based belief system," Gibbs continues. "It has fallen into the same trap of which science has accused religion. It posits its entire interpretive rationale on something which is unobservable and untested."

Gibbs is "turning the Constitution on its head," countered Becky Steele, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

"He claims that teaching science, based on well-accepted theories backed by factual evidence, is somehow promoting a particular religion in public school," she told The Gradebook in an email. "To see how cockamamie that is, imagine them arguing that the Establishment Clause would be violated by teaching a calculus class that only expresses the ‘worldview' of mathematics without any sense of the divine."

The St. Petersburg Times  mentioned Gibbs' memo in this story  Dec. 4, but The Gradebook thought it was worth fleshing out in more detail. Steve Kluth at the Christian Law Association said Gibbs was unavailable and referred questions to Grubbs and Barbara Weller, another attorney who works both at Gibbs' firm and the Christian Law Association.

"When you take that leap and call (Darwin's theory) a fundamental concept … you're moving beyond what science actually knows," Weller told The Gradebook Friday. "This is the only field of science where people are not allowed to propose other ways of looking at things."

Weller said she and Grubbs were preparing a more extensive memo, which could be finished as early as today and sent to the BOE.

The science-as-religion argument is not new as a criticism of Darwin's theory. Former St. Petersburg City Councilman Bill Foster, for example, used the terms "Darwinistic religion" and "Religion of Darwin" in his recent letter  to the school board (read the Times story on that here).

But the argument may be new as a legal vehicle. In the memo, Gibbs also writes: "Since the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution does not permit public schools to inculcate students with any one particular belief system or religion (or non religion), if this standard is employed in Florida schools, as is now being proposed, it could face legal challenges for violating the separation of church and state."

- Ron Matus, state education reporter

Comments

[Aaron an American River College student]

.....Why do evolutionists live their lives in fear of alternative views? The rants that I have seen have supported a fear of the unknown. I have seen a lot of complaints about people who believe the Bible. The last time that an organized religion got together with the university as buddies, Galileo, the Bible quoting scientist, got thrown into jail until he agreed with the educational norm. Now you rant and rave as if you want to be the next Inquisition. I challenge you to show that you are strong in your evolutionary confidence and allow other voices to be heard. A student that is wise enough to hear about sex ed. in junior high is wise enough to discern what model of science is right for them. If you prefer to live in fear of alternative models, prove me right - call me an idiot. I will thank you for your insults with smug relish.
.....Yet, I encourage evolutionists everywhere to take a chance that someone else's voice might be worth hearing. If Darwinism is truly valid, it will not fall to other theories. But here is the test of fear vs. open minded thinkers, will another theory when heard with an open mind, make better sense.
That is the risk that a true scientist has to take.

[Pat Connolly]

m zachary,
You might as well have asked, "Did any of you know that 1 + 1 = 3?" By that I mean, you are asking if people know an untruth. The myth of Darwin's "deathbed renunciation" has been debunked by reputable researchers. But then truth has never really been much of an obstacle for the anti-evolutionists.

[More to the point]

Regardless of what Darwin did or did not do, over the last 150 years his theory of evolution has been advanced to the point where he would no longer understand the details - he knew nothing of DNA or genetics or the other strides that science has made. Other than historical background, his books are no longer used in colleges and universities for teaching evolutionary biology - that should tell you something.

It's not just Darwin's theory anymore - it's the Modern Synthesis of Evolution and Genetics and any person, or religion, who wants to refute evolution, will go absolutely nowhere by trying to prove anything about Darwin.

You are correct when you call it the THEORY of evolution - it will always be a theory just as gravity, atoms and numbers will always be described in THEORIES. Theories are collections of hypotheses, conjectures AND facts. You need to broaden your education.

[m zachary]

did any of you know that Charles Darwin actually admitted on his deathbed that he made up and lied about the entire theory of evolution?

Something to think about...

[mark]

Remember, Gibbs is a lawyer. His job is not to convince people of the facts--his job is to convince them to agree with him, regardless of the facts. He clearly has absolutely no understanding of science.

[Jan]

JLO January 14 02:37 PM
Says:
"Why is it that the lies always come from the Christian Right?"

"David Gibbs is a liar and he knows it."

Apparently if lying serves toward maintaining belief in the Bible,not only is it OK, but is actively encouraged...according to this article by Patrick L. Hurd from "Fortifying The Family"

"Righteous Lying Is Lying always a sin for Christians?"

http://www.fortifyingthefamily.com/Righteous_Lying.html

Wasn't one of the 10 commandments was "Thou shalt not bear false witness"?

Seems to be OK to ignore that one now if one is lying to protect belief in Jesus! But you're absolutely right...why would such lying be deemed necessary at all?

[Noah]

In response to the earlier monkey comment, here is an old saying which is appropos:

"It is better to have monkey ancestors near the base of the family tree than hanging near the end of one's branch."

Oh Geebus, now science is a religion?

Wow, after HOW LONG teaching it, NOW it's a religion?

The stupidity astounds me. Perhaps they think it is wise legally, but if you come off looking as dumb as a rock, is it worth it?

Glad to know of another law firm to never use, though.

[S. Scott]

Maybe the Florida BoE and Mr. Gibbs should take a look at Caldwell vs. Roseville !!http://gregladen.com/wordpress/?p=1258

[mddawson]

Quote: "When you take that leap and call (Darwin's theory) a fundamental concept … you're moving beyond what science actually knows," [Barbara] Weller told The Gradebook Friday. "This is the only field of science where people are not allowed to propose other ways of looking at things."

This statement is incorrect and show a total lack of understanding how science works (it is actually a demonstration of how religious thought works - reject anything that conflicts with my religion).

The theory of evolution has stood the test of time because it matches the evidence, it is predictive and does not conflict with any other field of science.

It can be challenged at any time (and has been) but the repacement theory must not only explain everything that evolution does, it must explain more. It still must be predictive and not conflict with any other field of science.

Lastly a scientific theory must be falsifiable, that it can be shown false by an observation or a physical experiment. Religion by its own admission is not falsifiable so creationism/ID are belief systems - they are not science.

[mddawson]

If the school boards agree to give equal time to creation myths in science classes, will they be willing to give equal time to evolution in religion studies?

David C. Gibbs III - you sir are an ignoramus. Evolution is not a faith system as one does not need faith when all the facts point to one conclusion.

Recommended reading: http://www.wiu.edu/users/mfb100/evolution.php

[tom]

snip
"He claims that teaching science, based on well-accepted theories backed by factual evidence, is somehow promoting a particular religion in public school," she told The Gradebook in an email. "To see how cockamamie that is, imagine them arguing that the Establishment Clause would be violated by teaching a calculus class that only expresses the ‘worldview' of mathematics without any sense of the divine."
snip

Well said.

[Tom]

Is it me? The water? The magnetic deposits in the middle of Tampa Bay?

Why are attorneys advocating the violation of the establishment clause of the Constitution? Don't any of these lawyers have legal assistants to check existing case law?

Or, again, does the state Board of Education have a slush fund of taxpayer's money just sitting around NOT going to help students, but to defend religious crusades?

Oh, and Darwin's Great, Great, Great Uncle Francis was the monkey.

[JLO]

John writes, "Did Darwin ever tell anyone which one of his ancestors was the MONKEY?"

That's pretty clever ... for a third grader.

I especially like the choice of yelling the word monkey.

Here's a clue: grow up.

[Pilgarlic]

Watch out for him... you'll know him by the bone in his nose...

[JLO]

Why is it that the lies always come from the Christian Right?

When you have to lie to support your argument then you don't really believe your own argument.

David Gibbs is a liar and he knows it.

[John]

Did Darwin ever tell anyone which one of his ancestors was the MONKEY?

[Brian]

Evolution Vs. Creationism = Theory vs. MYTH

Do you have faith in your senses, or in a make-believe story written by people who truly believed that they were the center of the Universe?

I'm going with what I can see, feel, smell, taste, hear.

[Teri]

I totally agree Charles.... science in science class. Let religion be taught at home. Lets not proseltize schools.

[A. Scientist]

This is excellent! I'm looking forward to the day when we scientists can live tax-free like other members of the clergy!

[charles]

This is why I plan to send my children to private school, where they are free to teach science in science class without having to add "Oh, by the way, it's also possible that God created the world in seven days. No one was there, so we don't really know. You can decide for yourself."