More on the evolution poll

As the Times reported this morning, only 22 percent of Floridians polled wanted public schools to teach an evolution-only science curriculum.

But there's more to the results than you see in the story and the accompanying chart. For instance, men were more likely than women to say schools should teach evolution only, while a larger percentage of women said schools should teach all three "alternatives" of evolution, creation and intelligent design.

And 33 percent of respondents who identified themselves as independent voters said they believed schools should teach intelligent design only.

For more details, you can download the complete survey results here. To see the graphic at full size, click on it.

Comments

[Drew Smith]

When is the public going to learn that the public school system cannot be used as a tool of the religiously motivated to teach religiously-motivated ideas? For those who are advocating teaching either creationism or "intelligent design", are they truly that unfamiliar with the unconstitutionality of having those ideas taught instead of or as alternatives to *scientific* explanations? Perhaps now our state boards need to create better standards for teaching *civics*, since it is clear that many of our Florida public school graduates aren't getting it.

[Tere]

Give me a break! FL can't make curriculum decisions based on truthiness.

Just teach my child the scientific evidence on evolution. I'll help her - at home - realize that the fact that evolution and the book of Genesis are at odds doesn't mean there is no God.

[Larry Fafarman]

The Darwinist tail of only 22 percent of the public is trying to wag the dog.

[Linda]

Sure. Now let's give Floridians this poll.

Which best describes your views on what mathematics should be required for high school graduation?

A) Algebra and trigonometry
B) Consumer math only
C) No mathematics above middle school level should be required

I'll bet you get the exact same split.

The fact that our state is 78% ignorant retards does not alter scientific consensus.

[Chris W]

Linda:

They're not ignorant retards. If they were, they'd have an excuse.

Well, hells bells! If majority decides what we teach I say we all get together and decide to throw out history! I mean, what better way to not question anything than to ignore any progressions made?
Then let's all get together and decide that girls have to learn to cook and boys how to not get caught by their wives!
And then we can decide to teach, let's see, I know! We'll then change math up. Aren't you so sick and tired of hearing 1 + 1 = 2? Well let's change it!
I know! Next time I get pulled over for speeding, I'll just get the majority of people to agree with me that the speed limit is WRONG! That'll work!
If I had only known it was this easy....
Past employers, watch out! If the majority says you owe me money, you;re in trouble!

[C. David Parsons]

"The Quest for Right": A Creationist Attack on Quantum Mechanics.

By Stephen L of the newsgroups.derkeiler.com

Here's a different take on creationism/ID: "The Quest for Right," a multi-volume series on science, attacks Darwinism indirectly, by attacking quantum mechanics:

"American Atheists base their reasoning on Quantum Interpretation, hand in hand with Quantum Mathematics. Summoning the dark forces of quantum mysticism, with mathematical incantations, possesses the power to bewilder, and thus con, the average persons seemingly at will, into believing the bizarre and surreal: Z Particles, Neutrinos, Leptons, Quarks, Weak Bosons, etc. Mystics attempt to pass off quantum abuses as legitimate science, by expressing the theories in symbolic fashion. These formula represent the greatest hoax ever pulled upon an unsuspecting public....The objective....is to expedite the return to classical physics, by exposing quantum dirty tricks. That is, unethical behavior or acts,...to undermine and destroy the credibility of Biblical histories. These dirty tricks include: Absolute dating systems, Big Bang Theory, Antimatter, and Oort Cloud. These...have no further station in Science."

http://www.questforright.com

A more sophisticated way to argue against Darwin is certainly to argue against modern physics. Without modern physics, you lose astrophysics too, which enables the author to make the case for YEC [young earth creationism]. The author goes on to "prove" that things like red supergiant stars and X-ray pulsars don't really exist, except in the imagination of scientists.”

[Drew Smith]

Fafarman writes: "The Darwinist tail of only 22 percent of the public is trying to wag the dog."

Funny, but when you discuss the *relevant* percentage (namely, the percentage of earth and biology scientists who accept evolution), you're looking at over 99.85%. So it would be more accurate to say that it's the creationist tail of .15% of scientists who are trying to wag the dog. If you're trying to determine what is the best available science to teach public school students, do you go with what 99.85% of the scientific community advocates, or what only .15% advocates?

[JEFF]

...and the sun travels around the earth. Yah, right.

But, what would a poll in Galilao's time have netted?

Start using the brains God gave you people!

[Dean]

1. Even some scientists do not fully understand the narrow paradigm of "science". Science is concerned with the "what" and "how" of the universe, never the "who" and "why". The "who" and the "why" are beyond the paradigm of science. They are parts of the realms of religion and philosophy, NOT science. One does not preclude the other. This is why far more than 0.15% of scientists are also religious. The scientific theory of "evolution" or, more properly, "mutation and natural selection" is only about the "how".

2. It is always difficult for one to objectively study something of which one is a part, i.e., the universe/creation.

3. In modern usage the Spanish word "mañana" means tomorrow or some unspecified time in the future. But, it originally meant "morning", even though that is not its most common usage today. The ancient Hebrew word for "day" originally also meant an unspecified period of time. In later usage its meaning was generally limited to meaning a solar day.

4. If 10,000 years is but a twinkle in the eye of God, what is an entire day? A non-scientific anthropomorphic estimate based on a minimum human visual recognition factor of between one-tenth and one-sixteenth of a second would be between 8.64 and 13.824 billion years! Somewhere between 24 hours and 13.824 billion years is still only a non-scientific guess. (Ironically, the latter figure is not far off from the current estimated age of the universe.) Only the creator of all the kinds of days, lunar, etc., including those on earth, would know for sure!

[JDM]

Good point Dean. Those that claim to know the thoughts and mind of God given our human limitations are playing fast an loose with the facts. What is time to God? Time is how humans measure realitive motion. Would the ancient Isrealites have been able to even grasp the notion of millions or billions of years? As human knowledge grows so does the understanding of the grandeur of creation, not to mention one's creator.

[ROGER]

85% of college students today can't pass a 7th grade history test.

88% of college students today, can't spell, can barely read, and have the writing skills of a 3rd grader.

Florida statistically finishes in the lower 5 percentile on quality of education vs the other 49 states.

Unless we correct this, the cycle of ignorance will continue. We were once the most educated nation in the world. We are rapidly coming the most ignorant in the world...why ? Teachers are only concerned about their contract, pension, vacation, retirement. Why would they want educating students to interfere with their social lives ?

[Amanda]

This part of the story is rather misleading. It's only 22% of less than 1,000 people, not 22% of the entire state of Florida's population. Technically, according to the wording of this article, the tiny portion of the population polled in only one township of the entire state means that not only is the poll inaccurate, it's rather statistically insignificant, when you realize the two, namely regarding the numbers as representative of Floridian opinion and the numbers actually involved, do not equate with each other.

[Drew Smith]

Amanda wrote: "This part of the story is rather misleading. It's only 22% of less than 1,000 people, not 22% of the entire state of Florida's population. Technically, according to the wording of this article, the tiny portion of the population polled in only one township of the entire state means that not only is the poll inaccurate, it's rather statistically insignificant, when you realize the two, namely regarding the numbers as representative of Floridian opinion and the numbers actually involved, do not equate with each other."

Ummm, Amanda, the poll wasn't taken "in only one township of the entire state". The poll was a sample taken of Florida registered voters.

And if you study statistics, you'll realize that a poll of over 700 is more than sufficient to get a very accurate idea of what the entire Florida population of registered voters thinks.

[Daniel Kester]

I think the choices for a key question in this poll ("which describes your opinion of evolution?") was poorly worded: "Evolution is the fundamental concept underlying all of biology..." or "Evolution is just one of several valid theories.".

As a scientist who, of course, believes in evolution, I would have trouble picking the first choice, since I would have trouble picking evolution as "THE fundamental concept underlying all of biology". How about the cell theory, or theories of ecosystems, or the DNA theory, etc. (note that I do NOT include creationism in here). I find all of these valid and fundamental theories, so would need to choose the second choice ("Evolution is just one of several valid theories."), putting me in the same group as the creationists!

[TJ]

AND THE DUMBING DOWN OF AMERICA BEGINS..YES A NEW WORLD ORDER IS HERE...WHERE AMERICANS ARE MAKING THEMSELVES SECOND CLASS WORLD CITIZENS...

OH WHAT A WONDERFUL FUTURE MY CHILDREN WILL HAVE....THEY WILL GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOL AND I WILL TEACH THEM EVOLUTION MYSELF AT HOME, SINCE I AM A BIOLOGY MAJOR WHO ACTUALLY WENT TO COLLEGE AND LISTENED TO THE PROFESSORS AND RESEARCHED THE EVIDENCE.

THEREFORE MY KIDS WILL OUTCOMPETE YOUR STUPID-CREATIONIST-BELIEVING OFFSPRING AND THEN MINE WILL BE AT THE TOP OF THE SOCIOECONOMIC TOWER LOOKING DOWN AT YOUR PATHETIC GOD FEARING KIDS...HAHAHAHA

RELIGION IS A FORM OF CONTROL AND I WILL NOT HAVE MY CHILDREN CONTROLLED BY YOUR CULTS.

YES CULTS...THAT IS WHAT ORGANIZED RELIGION IS...JUST VARIES IN DEGREE
BY EACH DENOMINATION.

[Steve]

Evolution is total nonsense. There's not a shred of truth to it and the evolutionists know it. It's one of the big shams of our time and it's simply an excuse to not believe in God.

[Daniel]

Steve:

Why the contradiction? Why can't you believe in God AND evolution? Was there an 11th commandment that I missed that said "Thou Shalt Be Stupid"? Given the choice of explaining biology through either experiment and evidence based science or on a 2000 year old book of Jewish folklore... Hmm, tough choice...

[Chris W]

Steve:

That will come as a big surprise to the Catholic priests and nuns who are also evolutionary biologists. Try making sure your brain is engaged before putting your mouth in gear next time.

[Daniel]

Steve:

Why the contradiction? Why can't you believe in God AND evolution? Was there an 11th commandment that I missed that said "Thou Shalt Be Stupid"? Given the choice of explaining biology through either experiment and evidence based science or on a 2000 year old book of Jewish folklore... Hmm, tough choice...

[Chris W]

Steve:

That will come as a big surprise to the Catholic priests and nuns who are also evolutionary biologists. Try making sure your brain is engaged before putting your mouth in gear next time.

[Drew Smith]

Steve writes: "...it's simply an excuse to not believe in God."

This will no doubt come as a great surprise to the over 11,000 U.S. clergy who have gone on record as seeing no problem with evolution.

I have to assume from the lack of supporting evidence and/or anecdotes that Steve is simply trying to troll for arguments.

[Tom]

I'm with you guys... If there is going to be a poll to determine the level of support for/reaction against evolution, let's put EVERY SINGLE piece of the state standards - for every subject - up for debate and polling as well.

Let's not leave the establishment of a sound curriculum in the hands of educators - let's ask the vast unwashed if George Washington was REALLY the first president of the United States... I betcha we get 40 - 50% of the folks to refute that claim.

And, when we get to chemistry, mathematics, literature... well, I betcha we can chuck half of them there fancy standards out the winda and jes teech that good 'ol religion....

[Nick]

TJ sounds hysterical -- I can just see him pulling his hair out of his head and foaming at the mouth as he rants his diatribe.

Funny, now the secularist is talking about home schooling because his belief is seemingly under attack.

[Lloyd]

AN ARRESTING DEVELOPMENT!

The Quest for Right, a science book on origins that will be taught in the public schools???????????????????

I'm so disgusted right now. My mind just exploded all over the living room. I hate this guy.

This isn't so, is it? Someone tell me this isn't so.