Predictions, anyone?

Just 24 hours from now, the Florida State Board of Education will meet to consider whether to the state's science education standards will evolve. The most heated issue, if you haven't figured it out by now, centers on Darwin's teachings on biological evolution.

Is it a theory with alternatives, a "scientific theory" (which supposedly differs from a regular old theory), or the basis of biology? The State Board of Education will decide - at least as far as Florida's curriculum is concerned.

What do you think the board will do?

1. Side with the scientists. The scientific community is fairly unanimous in its support of the evolution standard as written. How could it hurt to say, We approved a science curriculum that scientists agree with?
2. Side with the "alternative" seekers. Florida is a unique place with its own unique way of doing things. If so many Florida school boards, members of the public and even teachers agree that evolution needs some balance, how could they be wrong? Besides, some lawmakers have threatened to take action on this issue, anyway.
3. Adopt some mushy middle ground that no one is really satisfied with, saying afterward, If everyone is equally unhappy, we must have found the answer.
4. Pawn off the decision. The board has a brand new commissioner and K-12 chancellor on staff, folks the board hired to guide the state through some tough educational times. This qualifies as tough, right? So why not ask the hired guns for the final "advice."
5. Punt. The board already has bent twice - once to allow public testimony after saying it wouldn't, once to offer the phrase "the scientific theory of" - so it's not entirely out of the question that it will table the whole issue for time to find a more "palatable" answer.

Then there's the matter of the final vote. What will chairman T. Willard Fair, mum to this point, decide? Will Donna Callaway, the first board member to oppose the standard - in a Florida Baptist Witness interview - stand firm? What about Dr. Akshay Desai, who along with attorney Roberto Martinez has said he will back the standard? Will they accept a "scientific theory" compromise?

Now's your chance. Make your prediction and be find out how good a guesser you are tomorrow.

(Image from the University of Plymouth Department of Psychology)

Comments

[Drew Smith]

David wrote: "Being that the theory of evolution has been marred with fraud because it has never had any solid evidence..."

To claim that evolution has never had "solid evidence", it would be necessary to ignore many decades of peer-reviewed scientific research articles on the topic.

***

David wrote: "There is more scientific plausibility in considering a Creator as there has to be a Cause for there to be an effect"

And so what would be the cause of the Creator?

[Tom]

Uhh, David, show me some scientific evidence that there is a Creator? However, there is PLENTY of evidence that an evolutionary process has been going on for hundreds of millions of years.

Here's one simple example: If you look at the fossil record,there is NO documented case of human and dinosaur remains being found in the same strata. They are separated by multiple eras.

Now, if the world was created 4,000 years ago by a creator - all at once - how is it that this very stratified fossil layer was laid down in such a short time period?

That evidence in itself is enough to cast significant doubt on any spontaneous creationist theory.

The only 'evidence' offered for creation is the Bible and arguments that certain things are just too difficult to understand using evolutionary science.

Does evolution claim to know exactly how and when things took place? Of course not, but the evidence is a whole lot more clear today than it was 40 - 60 years ago. But, it takes a leap of FAITH to assume that because something is difficult to explain, it has to be designed.

[David]

Being that the theory of evolution has been marred with fraud because it has never had any solid evidence, at best it should be called a long shot theory. There is more scientific plausibility in considering a Creator as there has to be a Cause for there to be an effect, among a myriad of other things. We've been brainwashed to think evolution is fact with NO evidence. I fear the people who don't think will win, there are more of them.

[Tom]

Lynn - In God We Trust was made the nation's motto in 1956.

It was finally added to paper currency in 1957.

The framers of the Constitution - MANY of who had to flee repressive religious persecution in Europe - wrote the following in 1791...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

I dunno - seems as if a clear separation of church and state was what our founding fathers intended...

I have a brilliant idea - let's NOT vote to include ID/Creationism, save the wasted money that would go to defend a court appeal that is bound to fail and SPEND THAT MONEY on school kids!

Wow, what a concept. You mean, kids who graduate who can read and write? Maybe some graduate with vocational training? Maybe we can get more to graduate in the first place?

Nah, there's no way that's more important than violating the First Amendment of the Constitution...

[Martin]

It is very scary indeed that there are ignorant people like Lynn out there. Evolution is not a theory. There is proof, unlike the alternative, which can only be faith based. Secondly, "one nation under God", was only added to the pledge of allegiance in the 1950's. It was not originally written that way. Third, this nation was founded on the belief of a separation of church and state. Public schools are indeed "state". Let the parents teach the religion, leave the education to the state. Our founding fathers did not begin this nation with the freedom to believe in God, but rather to believe as they wish. Do you have any clue as to how many of our founding fathers were "non Christian"? Your ignorance is pathetic.

[James]

I find it hard to believe this is even an issue in the schools. I feel like Florida is way back at the turn of the century. I presumed erroneously that evolution had become universally accepted. I was educated in the 1960's in the midwest, and even then I was taught evolution.

[Mr. S]

I saw Marco Rubio at Tiger Bay a month or so ago. He spoke of the advancement of our schools to a "world class" education. When questioned by an audience member what he meant by this, he said that the parameters of this concept have yet to be defined. In my opinion, a world class education does not include ridiculous speculations based on the words of uneducated men from a few thousand years ago. Wake up, folks lest we be surpassed by the logical world.

[Dave]

Virginia, some suggestions for your alternative curriculum: "Exorcising complex numbers", "Calculus for snake-handlers", "Transubstantiation and modern physics", "Abstinence and the animal kingdom", and "Electronics and demonology."

Virgina, "both" what?

First, without evolution there is no teaching biology.

Second, what would the other course be?

Third, what other classes should we allow parents to opt out of? Math? History? Language Arts? They have an opt out option; home school or private schooling. The fact that many private and religious schools teach evolution ought to give pause.

Quit trying to dumb down the kids who can't afford otherwise.

Learn about separation of church and state. Leave God out of the schools. He is the elective. Not science.

[wej]

Well lets teach all the creation myths as science truth such as the Hopi and Navajo's, that we ascended on a back of a turtle from the Grand Canyon. Can you disprove it?
Christianity is a bigger con game than science. Jesus was a magician. As soon as I see a burning bush talk then I'll be a true believer.

[mark annis]

why don't we just teach the truth and those who don't believe can study thier ism's on their own time!

[john]

unfortunately the STATE BOARD or the real god, has made a decision.

[Virginia]

Why can't schools just offer BOTH as classes & let the parents decide which class they want their child to take? That way, everybody gets what they want. And the schools will have openings for teachers.

[expero]

Let's teach Creation Science, too.

We were all known fully, just as we are, and littered throughout our perception of Time by God. Evolution attacks the origin of death and bloodshed, the effect of sin, the purpose of Christ, Christ's character, the original paradise, the restoration of that paradise, Christ's truth and the idea that God is in control and judges sin.

come and comment with me if you like on my blog, friend:

www.myspace.com/expero

[Mike]

Geez, I just looooove it when somebody says that evolution is "just a theory". That is actually a very high level approximation of truth, when used in the scientific context.

To wit: In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from or is supported by experimental evidence (not a novel or magic tricks). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations, and is predictive, logical, and testable. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. When somebody like Lynn steps onto the battlefield of science and tries to talk down a theory, the word is synonymous with hypothesis. This is misusage and is dangerous.

There are many theories out there:

Please ask Hiroshima how they feel about Atomic "theory". Please ask Indonesia how they feel about Plate Tectonic "theory". Please ask ANYBODY how they feel about the "theory" of gravity. Pretty real, for "just a theory", no?

Good luck to you!

[Dave]

Hi, Bob, how's that GED coming along?

[Dave]

Poor Lynn has never heard of the Enlightenment. I guess it was just a theory. In Lynn's world, faith is a virtue - that is, believing in things without proof. But then she spoils it by saying that believing in the Big Bang requires MORE faith than believing in creationism. So, by Lynn's logic, it is more virtuous to believe in the Big Bang than in the drivel she currently espouses. Time to evolve, Lynn. Come on out, the dry land is nice.

LYNN...
you are too damn stupid to even understand what "theory" means in science.

it does NOT mean a hunch or best guess

stupid person!!

[Honest Joe]

Man, it is no wonder we are the laughing stock of the nation. Richard, remember what the shortened version of your name was? Good - you're acting like one! Keep YOUR religion to YOURSELF! You want to know what happens when you mix religion and schools you get madrassas, (possible misspelling) - where religious dogma is crammed into male Muslim minds and then they go and slaughter each other hoping to get 72 virgins in heaven. We don't need a "moment of silence" just a moment of "science." When the Bible's "facts" were written people also believed in fairies, elves and dragons! Does that make THEM real? I'm with the meatball-worshipping guy. No fairy-tales in school books.

The very fact that ALL of the proponents of ID (Creationism) can only speak of God, shows where this stems from. It is not about teaching other theories of the origins of life, it is only about pushing God and their religion onto others.

Separation of Church and State. If I come into your church and tell you want to teach, you'd have an issue, wouldn't you? So stay out of the classroom!

Lynn, I also say "Oh sh-t!" It doesn't mean that I worship feces. It's simply a common saying. You also ignore the entire argument which is that religion has no part being in the SCIENCE classroom.

Bob, your evidence please.

SCIENCE people!

[Bob]

Wow! I didn't know so many people believe the biggest lie ever told, "evolution" .
Many of you say "Creation" doesnt belong in the classroom. How can you teach science if you start from the wrong premise. Did we evolve from a single cell or were we Created by God? Think about this. Don't let those college professors brainwash you.

[Lynn]

I am not sure what all the debate is even about. Our country was founded on what is on our coins & in our Pledge of Allegiance. "In God We Trust" "One nation under God" There was no confusion about who God was then. Our country was founded on people seeking freedom to worship God..and we have been one of the most blessed nations because of it.
Some have said they could never have enough 'faith' to believe that God just spoke and it all appeared. Well, it seems to me that it takes a lot more faith to believe that a big explosion happened out in space somewhere and everything evolved from there.
In our big world, there are even uncivilized people that worship 'something'.. In our very beings there is something that causes us to feel God must exist.
Also many that say they don't believe in God..when threatenend with impending danger, will cry out, " Oh GOD!" or even "God, help me!"
Our country was built on the belief of God...even our children were first taught in school because of the "Old Deluder Satan Act"... If many believe in a classroom that God did create everything..what about their rights and believes, too?
Evolution was never meant to be taught as a fact.. it was always a theory.

Why keep debating. We have some scientific evidence to support evolution and we have some written comments in various religious texts to suggest creationism so until either is proven or disproven why can't we just teach what we know, as we know it? Why does it have to be all or nothing. Why does it have to be about religion? Here is a farout thought: What if "God" (if you believe) created a being who in turn created the earth and all its inhabitants? Can anyone disproove this?
===============

It's not about "disproving" anything. Lack of evidence about one topic does not make something else of an entirely different topic true. It's about what can be tested and proved. Which is why ID/Creationism/Religion has no place in Science.

[Tom]

Are we still debating this?

May God have mercy on my soul? Why? Because I don't want YOUR religious beliefs shoved down my kids' throats? Because the framers of the Constitution specifically separated church and state inn the establishment clause...

Shesh... Don't waste time or money even promoting this. Let's move and address the important stuff - like low graduation rates, illiterate graduates and a lack of vocational education...

[Pilgarlic]

I suggest we put the Theory of Relativity to a vote. Surely Florida's voters are qualified to overturn Einstein.

I agree wholeheartedly with the expressed opinions that it is about time we stop showing deference to religious (superstitious) beliefs and call them what they are. Religion stands in the way of enlightenment (witness this debate) and causes more deaths in war than any other factor. It is a force for division, bigotry and hate. Most religious adherents are hypocrites, to boot, refusing to confess to the whole of their adopted dogma (my evangelical friends refuse to say that I'll swim in the lake of fire, though I'm an avowed atheist) but only that part of it that makes them feel good. Enough. Religion is an irrational, destructive force that corrupts humanity and impedes progress. ENOUGH OF THE POLITE DEFERENCE.

[Rupert]

I think the Board will do what most political groups do when faced with a hard decision, drop back and form yet another committee to study the issue. The Board hopes that the problem will solve itself with out them having to put their names on the line.

[REM]

Richard, the problem with your comments is it shows that you and people that share the same boat as you, have a complete lack of understanding of the processes of Evolution. Evolution isn’t just something that happened long ago, but is a continuing process that has (and is) shaping our world as well as the Universe. You want proof of Evolution; just go to the Galapagos Islands, where you can see Evolution taking place before you very eyes. Not convinced, go to the Grand Canyon and look at the geologic record of the canyon wall that spans thousands of years. The invertebrates at the bottom of the canyon wall and higher forms of animals at the top. All you have to do is take the blinders off and open your eyes. Want more? Go to the Museum of Natural History in Ogden, Utah and see the fossil records of where we came from dating back 10 million years ago. Evolution is not just one area of science, but many different sciences working together to prove or disprove the Evolutionary Theory. The evidence is overwhelming if you really care to look.

Richard, show me physical proof that Jesus existed and was the son of God. The Scriptures - writings and recollections, that have been translated, interpretted and retranslated..and then reinterpretted over the past two thousand years - are not physical proof. Fossils and research recording the progression of evolution are physical evidence. You show me the missing man...

[Marc]

Richard, you are a moron. In the bible you would be called 'Doubting Thomas'. What do you want Jesus to come back as a half ape half man and shake your hand, kiss your cheek before you will believe in Evolution? Interestingly enough, Faith is not required regarding Darwin's Theory since there is plenty of scientific facts backing it up. Funny how the un-educated would like to educate something they learned from a bully pulpit.

[Richard]

If someone will show me the missing link between man and ????, I'll accept evolution as fact. Fact is, it's a theory put forth by Darwin and I suspect if you could ask him today about his theory he would admit his error. As for those of you accepting this theory as fact, may God have mercy on your souls.

Jackie, you're the type of person that should have children. We need enlightened, educated parents. We now have parents who refuse to progress -holding onto belief systems rooted in superstition - dictating what will be taught to the next generation. We will never move past this current trend of medieval mentallity if we don't raise the next generation free from religious zeal.

[Dave]

suzanne, to suggest that scientific evidence for evolution and religious writings should be given equal time in a SCIENCE class is ridiculous.

[Eric]

Floidians are still debating the Scopes trial. No wonder the rest of the nation laughs at you people.

[Jackie]

1 of the greatest things America was founded on was the separation of church and state. NO religious teachings belong in public schools. Religion is a PRIVATE NOT PUBLIC matter. I went to Catholic school and only EVOLUTION was taught. I am a scientist and hold a degree in biology, and there is no truth in creationism or intelligent design. People in the 21st century that still continue to believe and preach this nonsense and want to force their stupidity on the public make me more happy every day in my decision not to have children. Shame on the Florida public school system for even considering this matter!

We don't think it was "Adam & Steve"...but it was Cain & Abel, and there were no girls next door (according to Scripture)...

[Rodger]

suzanne that sounds like a version I have heard before. Adam and Eve. Debating? here is a debate of another kind. some folks think instead of Adam and Eve that it was Adam and Steve. lol lol lol. and now want marital right's. lol lol. who said Charlie Christ. lol lol.

[Suzanne]

Why keep debating. We have some scientific evidence to support evolution and we have some written comments in various religious texts to suggest creationism so until either is proven or disproven why can't we just teach what we know, as we know it? Why does it have to be all or nothing. Why does it have to be about religion? Here is a farout thought: What if "God" (if you believe) created a being who in turn created the earth and all its inhabitants? Can anyone disproove this?

[Tom]

Go ahead, teach your children fairy tales like the one in Genesis. Really, for parents in the rest of the country, it's great news. It just means all that more seats in Ivy League universities.

[Scott]

All religions are cults.

"Believe exactly what we believe or you’re damned".

This being America, and all, I think the only “theory” of creation that should be taught is that of the indigenous peoples. The version taught, whether it’s the belief that people came from the mud, out of a crack in the earth or were brought here by the raven (among many stories), would be based solely on a geographical locations. Meaning, that if the school is standing on lands taken from the Iroquois, the Iroquoian legends should be taught, if the land was taken from the Cherokees, than the Cherokee legends should be taught, and so on. You see, this way, we won’t have the influence of radical religions with origins in the Middle East tainting our purely American beliefs!

[Dave]

I'm with you, Mike. The ONLY reason irrational views have been given deference in the past was to avoid social friction, not because the views themselves merited deference. Now this crap is simply too expensive for us and our children. It's time for the (verbal) gloves to come off.

[Chris W]

Joe says

"To all the evolutionists out there..Ok I don't think the Earth is only 12,000 years old. And, I'll let you ignore the fact the the fossil record shows that the Cambrian explosion shows that the animals all appeared at once. Or that if Darwin himself had viewed the double helix of DNA he would had changed his mind. But can you please explain to me how the brain decided that the image projected onto the back of the eye, which is upside down and reversed, corrected it?"

First of all, the Cambrian "explosion" is thought to have lasted no less than five million years so the animals hardly appeared "all at once".

Second of all, I'd like you teach me that neat trick of reading a dead person's mind to figure out what they would have said if they could have seen "X" or "Y".

Third of all, the brain is an extremely adaptive organ. Try this - stare at a TV screen with snow on it, and keep staring at it for at least a minute. Then stare at a blank wall and watch the remnants of your visual system adapting to the snow (called a scotoma) play out on the wall.

There is no discernible reason for an "intelligent designer" to have done it that way, but there is an evolutionary account to be had (off the top of my head): the eye being backwards with blood vessels between the rods and cones and the projected image would be *expected* to give rise to such an adaptive mechanism.

[Rodger]

the person that wouldnt put a name on your posting, starts damn it as a christian. whats wrong with a man that services your car? is he not a human being that your taught in your beleif to love? figures, your proving the truth about christianity -- judge judge judge, if you dont feel its right then its not. thats your core, ROTTEN!

[Marc]

I prefer the teachings of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If they will allow teaching Creationism or ID in the class room, they better allow the teachings of FSM and how his noodly appendages create gravity for us on this planet.

Worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and help stop Global Warming. Become a Pirate!

[Andy]

Intelligent design and creationism belong in the church and in sunday school, not in a classroom where real science is being taught. Many reputable scientists believe in a Supreme being but not necessarily in the King James version of how the earth was created. Keep King James in church not in my classroom. Otherwise be prepared for the consequences of a dumbed down society, the results of which can already be seen by looking at some of these posts

[REM]

Did we suddenly become the State of Tennessee? The fact we are still debating this issue in the 21st Century is unbelievable. For those making references to the bible, where do you think the bible came from? Did it all of a sudden fall from the sky? The arrogance of man wrote the bible to suggest he is at the center of the universe. Religion is not science and the only place it should be taught in school is in a humanities class that explains how religion has impacted human history. If this passes, there will be another monkey trial forth coming.

[Kim]

I'm going to send my children to a religious school so they can be taught evolution in science class. For some reason, most of the relgion-based schools I've spoken to (all christian) teach evolution in thier science class rooms. Florida Educators...please get a grip!!!

[Mike]

Religion is dangerous. I am an evangelical atheist. It is not okay to respect these faiths that espouse blatant lies. We must have a backlash in the name of reason. Fundamentalists are tearing at the very fabric of this nation that was founded as an extension of the ideals of the Enlightenment. It's time to make a committment to atheism and the moral righteousness of reason and logic. Faith is a curse that we must remain ever-vigilant against. Think for yourselves! Speak up against the debilitating effects of organized religion! Also, I demand we start teaching evolution in Sunday school ...

[Jeff]

The first major flaw in the Christian belief is how long it took for word of the scriptures to be translated , which by the way there is still argument on the correct meaning , but , why did the Africans or the people in China, or many other places in the world not know anything about this all mighty God ?. The son who gave his life on the cross, the man who created all life on earth , all this had to pushed on people around the world by missionaries???Seems to me God would have made sure all on earth knew equally at the same time who he was and why ...The next thing that the Bible does not explain is the Dinasaurs, or how about the fact that Christopher Columbus had to prove the fact that the earth was not flat, do you not think that if one God had created somehing as unbelieveable as this earth we all live on that he owuld not have let us all know it was round??? Brilliant scientist's around the world have factual evidence that supports evolution , a theory that is backed by very strong factual evidence, by far outweighs "any" religion we know of today. So, where do we draw the line, if we teach any form of religion in our schools we have to teach all forms of religion, because you know this country is made up of many different people from all over the world. My opiniom is stick to the facts, not missinterprated scriptures from a time when they put men to death on the cross for disturbing the peace. We allready have Christian , Muslim , Jewish , schools devoted to their teachings, but over my dead body will this be taught in public shools.