Storms' evolution bill passes first panel

The Senate's committee on K-12 education voted 4-1 Wednesday to approve Sen. Ronda Storms' bill to protect teachers who offer alternative theories to evolution and students who offer other theories. Only Sen. Ted. Deutch opposed it, despite criticism from some science instructors and the ACLU.

Storms, R-Brandon, said the bill doesn't say creationism or other religious-based ideas should be taught, but critics said it was a back-door way to allow religious theories counter to Darwin. She did amend it with Sen. Steve Wise to tight a few weaknesses, such as allowing Holocaust deniers to be heard.

"This is very confusing to me, because I believe this will open the door to very serious problems in the school system," said Sen. Larcenia Bullard, who suggested she might oppose the bill in a full Senate vote.

Here's the vote tally, in case you wondered -- Bullard, Wise, Lisa Carlton, and Alex de la Portilla supported the bill, Deutch opposed it, and chairman Don Gaetz and vice chair Frederica Wilson were absent.

-- David DeCamp, Times Staff Writer

Comments

[Mike]

Welcome to the truth of the argument. If this bill passes, DI already has their list of claimed peer-review articles ready to go at http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2640

in combination with the fact that the creationist website Answers in Genesis has created its own magazine to claim peer review as well.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/arj/v1/n1/testing-radiohalos-model

Its not a mystery to those who pay attention to the sources. These groups have changed their strategy every time they fail to seem less abrasive, but the goal is always the same. The goal, of course, is just to get a foot in the door for religion to replace what they believe is materialism.

Per the article in the paper Storms siad, "It's interesting to note that the only folks who have brought up religion today have been those in opposition." She suggested the bill helps foster critical thinking, not faith-based teaching and the "victims" of discrimination are afraid to come forward.

No kidding, Rhonda, only those in opposition mention religion? OK, I'm against the bill for some other reason, just give a few minutes to think of some reason other than the real reason.

Critical thinking tells me Storms will rationalize anything.

[Drew Smith]

Lena wrote: "I wonder why that one guy voted against it."

Because he recognized the motives behind it.

***

Lena wrote: "Everyone deseves the chance to think and that's all these teachers are doing."

Lena, did you ever stop to think why the bill singles out only science, and within science, only one particular area? Why is that? When you figure that out, you'll understand the true motivation behind the bill.

[Lena]

My freshman (high school) class just finished reading and watch both the play and the movie Inherit the Wind which discusses the Scope's Monkey Trial. I think this bill is a good idea and I wish they'd had it for poor Mr. Scopes. I wonder why that one guy voted against it. Everyone deseves the chance to think and that's all these teachers are doing. That bill was a good idea.

[K]

I did not know we still taught this stuff in Florida schools. I thought we just taught the FCAT. This will seriously infringe on FCAT teaching time.

[Chris W]

QED, TP.

[TP]

Sure I do Chris.......My hope for you is that you will have it too one day,
Good night

[Chris W]

You know, TP, that's about how I thought it would end up. You got nuthin'.

[TP]

Sorry Fools your going to have continue spewing your nonsence to each other.....my many years of education taught me how to work for a living. Obviously yours didn't......remenber survival of the fittest.SWEET DREAMS..AND DON'T STOP BREATHING!!!

[Chris W]

TP - Still waiting for the answers to my questions about what would convince you.

(crickets chirping)

[TP]

Fools....Fools...Fools......

[Marc]

The truth finally comes out, Rhonda Storms is a Nazi collaborator. Isn't that treason and punishable by the death penalty?

[Chris W]

Jh, it goes to prove one of my mottos - just because you believe in God doesn't mean you have to believe every stupid thing someone *says* about God. And creationists say some blindingly stupid things.

[Jh Skyscrapercity]

People like this TP person above are in desperate need of a trip back to elementary school...

Ok, bad joke... but seriously, it's plainly clear to anyone and everyone reading this who has the appropriate education that you don't, and that it succinctly explains your complete lack of factual perspective on the topic.

The fact of the matter is, THERE IS NO DEBATE IN THE LEGITIMATE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY, AND THERE HASN'T BEEN FOR ALMOST A CENTURY. People learn. That's how God made us.

Watch the documentary "Flock of Dodos"(2006), which does a great job of very accurately and fairly exploring both sides of the issue, and making it rather easy for any person capable of rational thought to make up their mind for themselves. And my guess is that only those who could be diagnosed as being clinically insane from the delusions brought about by their religious beliefs would continue to think that 'intelligent design' as we know of it was anything but a fatally flawed construct of man.

And this is coming from a person who used to believe it himself, until I spent the time to educate myself, and learned the facts, which are irrefutable.

And please, this doesn't disprove that God exists, or whatever. It simply proves that the men who are trying to tell you that God did it like this are wrong. We factually know that God created this process by which creatures could change and adapt to their environment over time. And frankly, God HAD to allow creatures to adapt, or they would all be dead already, from God putting them on a planet whose climate and topography changes so dramatically over time.

Stop listening to the people who profit from your obedience, and you'll finally figure out what the other 95% of us already know.

[Pink]

I say a great big YAY for this bill! We just spent a lot of money moving out of Florida because the education system is so bad - and this proves our money was well spent!

The evangelicals seem hell-bent on continuing the downward spiral of education, quality of life and civility in this nation. Our population seems to grow fatter, more stupid and more fearful with each year.
How will we compete internationally, with our young people remaining ignorant and clueless?

[Chris W]

TP - does that mean you'd like to hear the evidence? Okay, but let's agree on some criteria and you get to go first. And be aware that I am assuming that you are willing to listen and not just lean on the caps lock key on your keyboard.

The main thing I want to know is what kind of evidence would convince you that evolution is the best explanation of our origins. If none would convince you, and you're just trolling, tell me now so I don't waste my time and our comment space.

[honey]

Get out of state politics; your views are dangerous and ignorant.

If you want your children to learn about creation, send them to religious schools where they learn to be unquestioning zombies rather than serious intellectuals.

[TP]

Gee Chris...You have all this evidence and have been withholding from the rest of the world...wow...out with it!!! so it no longer has to be a brainless theory!!!! MAYBE THEY WILL NAME THE LAW AFTER YOU!! yOUR THE MAN, OR THE WOMEN...WOOPS SORRY NOT SURE..MAYBE YOUR STILL EVOLVING!!

[Herbie K]

I really don't know why everyone is so upset about this issue. If only competing theories are to be taught, then we will never have to hear about id or creationism again. As it doesn't even make a decent hypothesis let alone a theory.

[Herbie K]

I really don't know why everyone is so upset about this issue. If only competing theories are to be taught, then we will never have to hear about id or creationism again. As it doesn't even make a decent hypothesis let alone a theory.

[Chris W]

TP (if that is your real name), if you have the time I'd be happy to take you through all that evidence. Of course, if you'd rather (metaphorically) ring my doorbell and leave a flaming bag of poo on my digital door I'll just put you in with the other juvenile delinquents who think they can debate.

http://minibytes.mondominishows.com/poo/main.asp

[TP]

Hey Chris W.
Obviously your thinking process is flawed(maybe to much "Mother Earth" in the pipe) so is your observation of all the billions of years of evolutionary evidence....mounds and mounds or mutational bones....woops, oh, there isn't any....woops.....Sorry you have nothing including brains. Hope you come to your senses soon Chris

[Heidi]

Chris W, I like your style. I fully plan on sending my 2 girls in ready for full-on theological battle with these idiots. I am an atheist who has read the Bible cover to cover many times. It has only gone to solidify my lack of faith. How many Christians can say they have done the same? I'm fairly sure sheep only follow...

[Susie]

You think Public Schools are bad now....just wait. You don't know the half of it.

[Joe]

Why in the world are we having this argument in 2008... really? Would creationist please just never visit a physician. They use evolutionary biology every day.

[grafixer]

Chris W: I am not so sure that teachers have to teach the standards with this bill. My understanding is that they can teach "alternative instruction in lieu of" or "in addition to" the standards. Pretty scary. We will become a theocracy.

[Steve]

The state senators (especially the confused one and the ones who couldn't find their office for the vote) would benefit from reading Olivia Judson's columns about evolution in the NY Times (sorry, SPT). I realize the NY Times uses some big words but perhaps the senators could find someone educated out of state to explain them.

[Pete Dunkelberg]

The universe in a grain of sand, the explanation in a newsblog comment.

[john]

okay so you want to believe everything around you has an evolution. please for our audience please show me the chain of goo to everything, what you can't find it. Amazing, did you know God didn't stop. I even believe in a big bang theory God clapped His hands and created. didn't clone copy or perform magic. And unless scientists have concluded there is an end to space it appears to me that God is still creating. And he loves he His most spiteful critics, He's waiting for you, He's giving you another chance, and another, and another, and another, and another,. . .

[Dave]

I'm in the market for a coliseum and a pride of lions. I need them to ensure Florida's children get a decent education.

[Chris W]

TP - Not blind faith, just observation and thinking. Of course, to you creationists thinking may be taboo. But don't worry - when using evolution makes it possible to create a next-generation round of antibiotics to fight staph infections that have evolved to resist the drugs we have now, you'll get to use them just like everyone else. We won't make you go to a faith healer who will try to pray away your necrosis.

[Pete Dunkelberg]

Before making inapplicable comments check the amended bill. I think this is the url:
http://www.flsenate.gov/data/committees/Senate/meeting_packets/ED.pdf

warning - the pdf is a scan and it is over 4 megs.
Commentary starts on about p 28, new bill is pages 31 - 33.

Bottom line: the only function of the bill is to aid and abet teaching creationism.

[TP]

To all of the idiots that believe they evolved from apes.......talk about blind faith.

Man, Am I glad my kids are raised. What a bunch of Backward Fools we have in the Legislature.

Next they will want to teach that the earth is actually flat.

"Don't Preach in our Schools and
we won't Think in your Churchs"

[Chris W]

It almost doesn't matter. Teachers have to teach to the state science curriculum, which has to implement the just-adopted state science standards. If a teacher teachers ID and insists his/her students learn it on a test, they can be disciplined for insubordination because it fall outside what's supposed to be taught. If all they do is mention it in class, then they're protected.

We parents can also send our kids to class armed with proper knowledge about the limitations and intrinsic dumb-assery of creationism and just wait for one of those dim-bulb folks to start up, and then our kids can ask them all kinds of embarrassing questions.

[Kryss]

This bill literally makes me ill. I really hope if passed further that this will do nothing but backfire in their faces, because no matter what these people think, not everyone is a christian...and not all teachers are going to counter evolution with creationism...there are teachers of all religions and thoughts, that will now be protected to teach this to our children. They sure are not going to like it when junior comes home talking about reincarnation, Gilgamesh, or Xenu. Also I didnt realize that there were any other scientific theories to counter evolution...where do they get this stuff??

[Drew Smith]

Chris wrote: "I respect that the theory of evolution has holes"

Which holes are those?

Chris also wrote: "They already give kids the downsides of the leading scientific theory."

What downsides are those?

Chris also wrote: "Most high schoolers cannot comprehend simple chemistry, let alone a lofty theory that - like I said - has plenty of holes. I don't mind those holes being exposed."

What holes are those?

Chris also wrote: "I don't mind spending a few days talking about alternate theories."

What alternative *scientific* theories are those?

Chris also wrote: "Evolution is the leading theory because it has the most research and scientific backing."

The theory of evolution is not merely the "leading" theory. It is the *only* scientific theory currently given serious consideration, because no other explanation has been able to withstand scientific scrutiny.

[voxy]

Please read the above. I didn't ask to know this. A guy who knows that we run blogs and websited handed us the Third Reich rise and fall book. What an EYE OPENER. Stunning.
It's NOT just the religious connection. It's the NAZIs that won't die connection. Bush, Ronda, Charlie, Pruitt, McCollum.
They're not just backwoods troglodytes, they are MONSTERS and bit by bit they are stomping their way to success.
Contact your legislators.

[Drew Smith]

So the 4 who voted in favor of it didn't bother to pay attention to the fact that there is no evidence that any Florida schoolteacher has ever suffered discrimination on this issue?

What kind of legislator votes in favor of legislation despite the complete lack of evidence to support the need for the legislation?

Oh, wait, the same kind of people who advocate teaching something (intelligent design) as science despite the complete lack of scientific evidence to support it!

[voxy]

Holocaust deniers??

AHH the truth emerges. That is really what they were after. The neo-NAZIS don't want anyone to remember that BEFORE THE FOURTH REICH there was a THIRD a SECOND and a FIRST.
They are already stealing property. Some may be aware that THIS was the first step in the Third Reich. To steal the goods from the 'undesirables'. First: confiscation of ASSETS.
That's well under way.

Read: The rise and fall of the third reich. You'll have to buy that one but it's a good and NECESSARY read. Available used quite inexpensively.
READ: IBM and the holocaust.

READ IT !!! Then you will understand where Ms. Ronda and her ilk is really headed. Heil Storms. Seriously, laugh it you want to but if you read it .. you will see what I mean. Just found it myself the other day. Amazing the timing of this......
http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

[Chris]

I respect that the theory of evolution has holes - almost all big theories do. The only real way to provide complete data on the subject is to build a time machine or hope that mankind will survive a few million years while keeping track of the process.

That being said, there are plenty of teachers already avoiding evolution as a whole. They already give kids the downsides of the leading scientific theory. They don't, however, offer up the holes in their theory, and I fear this bill will allow teachers more freedom to bash millions of pages of research in favor of their own views and become quit partial in their teaching in that respect.

Most high schoolers cannot comprehend simple chemistry, let alone a lofty theory that - like I said - has plenty of holes. I don't mind those holes being exposed. I don't mind spending a few days talking about alternate theories. But treat them the same. Evolution is the leading theory because it has the most research and scientific backing.

Don't give teachers a free pass to toss it out the window for something like ID, which basically says, "Since we don't know how it happened, it must have been an intelligent designer." I say, if we don't know how it happened, spend more money promoting science in schools and see if these kids can one day find out.

Floridians for Science!

will teachers who "believe" that 1+1 is actually 3.7 also be PROTECTED!

this is so sad that elected legislators are so AFRAID of the ahistoricalevengelicaldumbdamentalist faction of this state that they defy the laws of science to placate idiots who cant even comprehend holy scripture!!

[Kris]

I certainly hope that adequate attention will be paid to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Thank you Ronda for making sure the education of our children will not be sacrificed to science and other such tom-foolery. Now we can maintain our standing at very top of the list when it comes to American edjacashunn.

How pathetic. A piece of legislation that only a backwater troglodyte like Rhonda Storms would come up with.

[MarkMarsh]

Great, now we can teach astrology in science class. What sign are you Rhonda?