The persecution problem

The "academic freedom" bills filed by Sen. Ronda Storms, R-Brandon, and Rep. D. Alan Hays, R-Umatilla, make a sweeping claim: "The Legislature finds that in many instances educators have experienced or feared discipline, discrimination, or other adverse consequences as a result of presenting the full range of scientific views regarding chemical and biological evolution."

Is that true in Florida? Is there a widespread problem?

Hays (left) told The Gradebook he wasn't sure, and said the bill language might have to be tweaked. One prominent supporter wasn’t sure either. Christian activist Terry Kemple of Brandon said the bill is needed to keep teachers who don't march in lock step on evolution from being blackballed. But when asked for examples, both Hays and Kemple cited the same two teachers – one retired (Robin Brown) and one current (David Brackin), both of whom addressed the Board of Education before the Feb. 19 vote. (To see Brown and Brackin’s statements, click here and here.)

"They said they're not the only ones," Kemple said. And like some of the academics in "Expelled," the upcoming Ben Stein movie, he suspected many of them might be too afraid to speak up.

If surveys are to be believed, though, most of the evolution-related pressure being put on science teachers is aimed at those who want to teach the scientific consensus about evolution, not those who want to teach the "full range of scientific views" – which would presumably include the fringe notion that evolution is not backed by strong evidence. A 2005 survey by the National Science Teachers Association, for example, found nearly a third of teachers who responded felt pressure to de-emphasize evolution or teach faith-based alternatives because they feared a religion-driven backlash from parents (see a St. Petersburg Times story that touches on that issue here.)

Other surveys suggest a significant minority of biology teachers are creationists, and/or believe creationism is scientifically valid (see previous Gradebook post here). But supporters of the academic freedom bill have said, repeatedly, that they are not seeking inclusion of creationism, or intelligent design, or any other faith-based theory into science classes. It appears, then, that those teachers would not be protected by the bill.

So where are all the teachers who would be? "Frankly, I don’t know," Hays said. But "it doesn't make a difference to me if it's four teachers in the whole state who were harassed … We want the teachers to be able to teach the full scope (of evolution) without fear."

"You and I both know there are holes in Darwin's theory. No one yet has found a half-animal of this or a half-insect of that," Hays continued. "And they certainly haven't found any half ape and half man."

- Ron Matus, state education reporter

Comments

[Missing Link]

Ok! So sad to hear about the bashing of two good people - Ms. Brown and Mr. Brackin (Where did they get their Biology credentials?).

Let talk about reality here. What about the TRUE science teachers who have been threatened and FIRED for insisting on teaching science NOT religion in science classes? Maybe these folks are afraid to speak too. Many incidents have and are happening in some of Florida's districts - you guess which ones!

In one of my careers, I was an educational consultant for a software company and my territory was north Florida and the Panhandle. Oh, what an adventure! I saw more Jesus screensavers on classrooms computers, the 10 Commandments posted on classroom walls (not my rules for living nor those of the public education system), and "Jesus Saves" posters on classroom walls. I once visited a principal who had two deer heads mounted on his office wall and in between them was a framed posted of the BIG 10 Cs!!! That was appalling to me - but I wasn't being paid to criticize the culture or lack of it - just get them to learn how to use the educational materials my company produced.

I had a Darwin evolving fish emblem on my car - because I DO BELIEVE!! On day while visiting a school in a small district the custodian asked, "Little lady, is that your car out there with that anit-Jesus 'thang' on the bumper?" I proudly told him that in fact it was. He strongly suggested that if I were to return that I should tune-down my anti-Jesus attitude and remove my Darwin symbol! He said that car was too pretty or "purtty" to be "hurt" in some accident! Threat - I think so. If this happened to me, what is happening to really educated teachers trying to do the right thing for students in these counties?

Let's send them good vibrations (please no prayers) and hope they speak up as to their plights!!! So the folks at the Capitol can hear from them too! They are also threatened!

Oh, my Darwin symbol was ripped from my bumper, broken in half , and then thrown down by the driver's door - what a Christian thing to do. I don't find it necessary to destroy Christian symbols on cars - interesting - Jesus, Buddah, and other prophets taught us how to LIVE and LET LIVE! Keep religion out of my schools and public buildings and I promise not to bring Darwin or the Flying Spagetti Monster in to your churches!

Please help the teachers in some counties of our state (who also are being threatened with the word of some god) to be able to teach biology as science and NOT myth!

Gorilla Grandmother

[Missing Link]

Ok! So sad to hear about the bashing of two good people - Ms. Brown and Mr. Brackin (Where did they get their Biology credentials?).

Let talk about reality here. What about the TRUE science teachers who have been threatened and FIRED for insisting on teaching science NOT religion in science classes? Maybe these folks are afraid to speak too. Many incidents have and are happening in some of Florida's districts - you guess which ones!

In one of my careers, I was an educational consultant for a software company and my territory was north Florida and the Panhandle. Oh, what an adventure! I saw more Jesus screensavers on classrooms computers, the 10 Commandments posted on classroom walls (not my rules for living nor those of the public education system), and "Jesus Saves" posters on classroom walls. I once visited a principal who had two deer heads mounted on his office wall and in between them was a framed posted of the BIG 10 Cs!!! That was appalling to me - but I wasn't being paid to criticize the culture or lack of it - just get them to learn how to use the educational materials my company produced.

I had a Darwin evolving fish emblem on my car - because I DO BELIEVE!! On day while visiting a school in a small district the custodian asked, "Little lady, is that your car out there with that anit-Jesus 'thang' on the bumper?" I proudly told him that in fact it was. He strongly suggested that if I were to return that I should tune-down my anti-Jesus attitude and remove my Darwin symbol! He said that car was too pretty or "purtty" to be "hurt" in some accident! Threat - I think so. If this happened to me, what is happening to really educated teachers trying to do the right thing for students in these counties?

Let's send them good vibrations (please no prayers) and hope they speak up as to their plights!!! So the folks at the Capitol can hear from them too! They are also threatened!

Oh, my Darwin symbol was ripped from my bumper, broken in half , and then thrown down by the driver's door - what a Christian thing to do. I don't find it necessary to destroy Christian symbols on cars - interesting - Jesus, Buddah, and other prophets taught us how to LIVE and LET LIVE! Keep religion out of my schools and public buildings and I promise not to bring Darwin or the Flying Spagetti Monster in to your churches!

Please help the teachers in some counties of our state (who also are being threatened with the word of some god) to be able to teach biology as science and NOT myth!

Gorilla Grandmother

[Chris]

"If the ignorance of nature gave birth to the God's..the knowledge of nature, is calculated to destroy them."
Baron D'Holback
1723-1789CE

Darwin's theory of evolution along with Newton's theory of universal gravitation and other scientific theories....are just that--theories..not fact. Scientific research tests these theories...allowed man to travel into space..look back through time with the hubble telescope, genetic research (and yes..homosapiens have evolved from apes...merging of dna leaving telltale markers). Best sumed up..

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful"
Seneca
4 - 65CE

[Pete Dunkelberg]

Greg Laden has a relevant article:
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2008/03/teachers_under_fire.php

[Pete Dunkelberg]

"The Legislature finds that in many instances educators have experienced or feared discipline, discrimination, or other adverse consequences as a result of presenting the full range of scientific views regarding chemical and biological evolution."

White man speak with forked tongue. Do we really need any complex arguments here? All us us know that the reason certain claims are not in the curriculum, and not in standard text books, is that these claims are not scientific. The statement in the bill, created by professional propagandists in the Discovery (sic) Institute, is a calculated attempt to imply that their views are scientific, while in fact they are not. No legislative action is needed to teach science in science class.

Recall that the proponents of these claims would not even try to defend them under oath in the recent Dover trial. The only one they really tried to defend is their 'irreducible complexity' buzzword. This is the silly claim that evolution can't produce co-adapted parts because after the parts have evolved to be co-adapted, you can't remove a part without loss of function. Not surprisingly this claim did not do well under cross examination. This claim tends to dissolve into a general "that's too complicated", which also does not hold up as an objection to evolution.

But do not let that detail distract you from the major point: all the standard creationist BS that Hays and many creationists at the sundry hearings repeated, that they read in creationists books and web sites, is material that the people who feed it to them will not stand behind.

[Chris W]

So they complain about widespread persecution of creationist teachers, but can only come up with two cases. Why is this any different from anything else they've said?

How do you know when a creationist is lying? His/her lips are moving.

[jonathan smith]

Hays should do a little more reading:

Scientists have made one of the most important fossil finds in history: a missing link between fish and land animals, showing how creatures first walked out of the water and on to dry land more than 375m years ago.
Farish Jenkins, an evolutionary biologist at Harvard University said: "This represents a critical early phase in the evolution of all limbed animals, including humans - albeit a very ancient step." Tiktaalik also gives biologists a new understanding of how fins turned into limbs. Its fin contains bones that compare to the upper arm, forearm and primitive parts of the hand of land-living animals.
"Most of the major joints of the fin are functional in this fish," Professor Shubin said. "The shoulder, elbow and even parts of the wrist are already there and working in ways similar to the earliest land-living animals."
There is evidence to show us that Hays has only half a brain!!

[tom]

All those hundreds of blackballed teachers here in Florida unable to break free and speak the truth...

OK, there are only TWO, but, BY GOD, we have GOT to do something about it!

Uhh, how 'bout addressing the thousands of kids who won't graduate... Shouldn't we be spending TAX DOLLARS collected for education on teaching kids, instead of trying to liberate the voices of thousands... I mean two .. teachers....

Or, is it just me?

[Mike]

Hays is also quoted as saying: "No one yet has found a half-animal of this or a half-insect of that."

Ahh, we have all got to love the persistence of the crocaduck argument. No, you're never going to find a fossil that is half of one animal and half of another, especially if they are not closely related on evolutionary lineage.

For those who would like to exclude the word evolution, let me rephrase by saying that animals that look more alike tend to have more common unique character combinations than animals that have a wide degree of separation. No where in the theory (explanation) of evolution would we expect to find half one animal and half another in the terms that this man is presenting it. These continued misconceptions are a driving force for the anger between the learned and the proclaimers.

A hint for people going forward. Either side can tell, just by the claims you make and don't support, how familiar you are with the topic. Those that want a half crocodile, half duck animal to exist in the fossil record are ignored because they're asking for something that evolution doesn't come remotely close to claiming. If that's what a "transitional fossil" means to you, please change your definition real fast.

On the broader issue of teachers being snubbed because they don't full support/understand/accept evolution, take your pick of which word you want to use, and believe is excluded from the list because we're not talking about a blind dogma here, it is not a teachers job to define what is and is not science. Research professors at the university level, excluded of course. They are the carrier pidgins, so to speak, for science as defined in a state curriculum by a board of actual scientists to the students. Yes, I'm sure there are a few teachers that are exclusions to this rule based on their experience, but a high school science teacher of 20 years more than likely isn't up to date with all the happenings in the world of biology.

[Drew Smith]

Hays is quoted as saying: "You and I both know there are holes in Darwin's theory."

And these "holes" are what, exactly?

***

Hays is also quoted as saying: "No one yet has found a half-animal of this or a half-insect of that."

As insects *are* animals, I have no idea what Hays is trying to say here. Perhaps Hays should try to be clearer about what he means.

***

Hays is also quoted as saying: "And they certainly haven't found any half ape and half man."

The evidence says otherwise:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC050.html