"Evolution Academic Freedom" bill passes Senate

The Florida Senate has approved legislation that would allow public school teachers "to objectively present scientific information relevant to the full range of scientific views regarding chemical and biological evolution." The 21-17 vote showed most Democrats opposed and most Republicans in favor.

GOP senators Paula Dockery of Lakeland, Dennis Jones of Seminole, Jim King of Jacksonville, Evelyn Lynn of Ormond Beach and Mike Bennett of Bradenton voted no. Democrat Gary Siplin of Orlando voted yes.

During debate, Democrats saw the bill as a way to get religion into schools, with little to do with science or the standards that the State Board of Education approved earlier this year.

"This bill is not really about evolution. It's not really about academic freedom, either," said Sen. Arthenia Joyner, D-Tampa. "It's about a desire to open up the controversy of teaching creationism in the public schools."

Republicans who spoke rejected that notion. Sen. Don Gaetz, R-Niceville, said the bill does not either require the teaching of creationism or ban the teaching of evolution. Rather, he said, it opens the door for debate.

"There's nothing wrong with inquiry," Gaetz said. "There's nothing wrong with discussion. That's what this bill does."

Added sponsor Sen. Ronda Storms, R-Valrico, "This bill specifically declines to establish a religion. ... We're also not trying to be hostile to a religion. ... This bill is a freedom of speech bill." She read a letter from a Pinellas science teacher who praised her effort to make the teaching of evolution more scientific by allowing more information to be taught than what appears in (sometimes inaccurate) textbooks.

"We are not talking about religion. We are talking about the ability to critically analyze evolution," Storms said. "I daresay a legitimate scientist wouldn't be afraid" of the critical analysis this bill allows.

The Senate version of this legislation differs from the House version, which has yet to win final approval. Storms introduced an amendment to make them the same, but it failed on voice vote.

Comments

[savwa]

I'd bet that if the Florida legislators were required to wax eloquently for 2 minutes on the Beagle, most would describe a house pet or a Peanuts comic strip

[CP]

Evolution is fact and should be taught as such. Creationism is a fairy tale with no scientific evidence to support it. The evidence supporting evolution is everywhere. Just look how some species have evolved differently depending on their environment. Look at how humans have evolved differently depending on their climate. Sometimes it is hard to see the forest through the trees.

[MarkMarsh]

Evolution has been "critically analyzed" since Darwin published "Origin". Where is the analysis of the "creation story"?

[Marc]

Thanks Rhonda Storms for introducing this piece of crap legislation. Now the taxpayers are going to have to fund the imminent countless court challenges. What a waste of taxpayers time and money.
You stupid republicans, get on the ball and fix the damn Insurance and Tax crisis. I'm angry and not going to take it anymore!

[RB]

Cue the banjoes.

[Chris W]

The problem with what the Republicans are saying is that it isn't true. Creationists lie, and they lie with a clear conscience because they think they're lying for Jesus. This is a license for creationists to sneak into the public schools under the radar (or under pressure of a teacher shortage) and present their crap in class relatively unmolested. And the kids will lose out.

[Marc]

Where is Mr. Floriduh! when you need him? God, Guns and Gays...that is all the conservative Florida Legislature is good for. PLEASE I beg of you, take that large salary of your and your fat-cat contributions and put it to good use. Fix the Tax, Insurance, affordable housing, transportation and Jobs issues. PLEASE take a break from time wasting legislation like 'bring your gun to work day' and 'Lets teach creationism at school'. ARghhh I want to SCREAM!

[Shauna]

Storms claims this bill is about intellectual honesty while lying through her teeth about her own motivations. It takes a fundamentalist to square that vile circle.

[Shauna]

Storms claims this bill is about intellectual honesty while lying through her teeth about her own motivations. It takes a fundamentalist to square that vile circle.

[Marc]

What do you expect from Rhonda Storms? She is an evil witch. She sits in her ivory tower, scheming of ways to introduce her right-wing policy agendas. All the while, blinded by the fact that she believes she is pleasing God and Jesus by pushing her version of Christianity and her moral values on others. Whatever happened to separation of Church and State? Can He-Man protect us from the Evil and conniving witch Rhonda Storms? God Help Us!

[Rich]

Good grief, just when you thought this State could not get worse. Its official, we are now Alabama.

[Anne]

Will someone please tell me when the idea of conflicting opinions became anathema? Our universities no longer allow differing opinions, or if you do have them, your grades are crushed. Why is science so afraid of religion? Why not have the discussion? 80% of Americans believe in God, why is it that the other 20% are so worried about it? The whole premise of America is based on our inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These are intertwined with the right to have dissenting opinions. The only reason this issue needs to go to court is because someone will be afradi of the intellectual and theological discussion. Perhaps if more people believed they descended from God, and not animals, we would have fewer videos of 7 girls beating up 1 for 10 minutes of fame. I have not been in a church for years, but I still believe in God and the fact that I did not start existence as a piece of slime. If others choose to believe otherwise, go ahead. You have your OPINION and I have my BELIEF.

[Brian]

I wonder if Ronda voted to ban truck nutz? That is her core constituency--

[Brian]

I wonder if Ronda voted to ban truckticles? That is her core constituency--

[Jim]

As a Floriduh native, I am sorry to say that Alabama and Mississippi passed us years ago in the intelligence department. Maybe the Flat Earth Society can create a charter school. Of course, now that it appears truck nutz will be banned, we'll have to modify our college classes in anatomy and veterinary science. We make Mongolia and Zimbabwe look enlightened.

[Rhonda Storms - Good Stripper Name!]

Awww Truck Nutz!! What a bunch of hogwash! Where' the Prom King today - I'm sure there's a camera nearby. Chuckles for Veep!... of the senior class.

[Chris W]

Anne:

It isn't a matter of having a dissenting opinion; it's a matter of what gets taught in science class (which is supposed to be supported by and explain actual facts that don't depend on opinion).

This bill will open the door for any jackleg idiot creationist to masquerade as an actual science teacher and flood the zone with creationist swill and not leave any time to properly teach evolution according to the just-passed state standards. Regardless of the evasion and outright lying that Storms did, that's what this bill is meant to do.

[TP]

I agree Anne, Why are they so afraid of debate.Sorry guys you lose again.
Hopefully one day you will take off the blinders.Your hatred is only hurting you.

Ditto Anne.

Amazing how the liberal Democrat fascists are so intolerant and close minded.

[Pete]

The masquerade is obvious. This bill is yet another attempt to slip creationisism mumbo-jumbo in as they have lost in court so many times. Science is based on falsifiability. ID-creationism in a suit- fails this very premise. It could easily be refuted in a philosophy class and is simply not science. Read the Dover decision, which came from a Christian Bush appointee.

i think the only thing florida schools are good at is making retards

[Mike]

Maybe someone should tell Storms (though she seems to always defend the most retarded positions) that this bill has nothing to do with scientists anyways. When was the last time a scientist was in a K-12 class for more than a guest lecture a year if the teacher had amazing connections? This crap is about letting the ACLU sue Florida in an education tight fiscal year and allowing utter bullshit to be spewed to influential minds THAT DONT HAVE THE BACKGROUND to even know if they should challenge it.

Granted I know this is going to break down nicely on a county by county basis, but what happens when you have 6-8 grade teachers teaching creationism and high school teachers who have to play a shit ton of catchup so the kids can even remotely understand how evolution works?

New rule, if you want to be allowed to vote on this bill, how about you take a test regarding evolution from a university level course. (undergrad is fine) If you fail, shut your damn mouth. You don't even know what people are trying to criticize at that point.

[Chris W]

TP and anonymous, you're wrong and you're blinded by your faith. You seem to think that *everything* is a matter of faith, and that therefore scientific matters are matters of faith (hence opinions) as well.

When you're sick, do you go to a doctor or to a faith healer? When you or someone you care about has an infection, do you pray over it or go get an antibiotic injection? The answer matters a lot. If you avail yourself of modern antibiotics while still spouting creationism, you're using the fruits of evolutionary theory and you're a hypocrite. You know what the Bible says about *them*, don't you?

[TP]

Chris, your still spewing the same old nonsence. Get a clue and a life.You will never win.

[Chris W]

Hey, I have a clue *and* a life. It's too bad you think it's "nonsence"; it might help you down the road a ways when the evidence for evolution becomes so well-known and so obvious that even you can't deny it.

[Mike]

Anne,

It's pretty sick that you're willing to say things like that, without holding an objective opinion or a rational thought and seem to just recite rhetoric from a Sunday sermon. 80% of Americans can claim to believe in god, however there is no conflict between many faiths and science. It only seems like specific extremists believe that their bible is literal in a word for word context, and are upset when things we learn now conflict with things some guy wrote down thousands of years ago, and has since been translated and interpreted.

As well, shame on you for making the accusation that evolution is to blame for a girl being beaten, or any violent crime. It is FACT that evolution occurs which has been observed in the development of bacterium that can eat nylon. The theory goes on to explain how all life has developed and uses the best evidence discovered (an ongoing process, mind you) to place the development in an order for our better understanding using the fact that things modify over time. Regardless if people believe in a religion or not, this occurs, which means that it has NO impact on morals. What you seem to be talking about is irresponsible parenting, weak social links, and hormone driven rage. There was never a connection to religion in that incident until you brought it into the conversation. That pretty much leads me to believe that you're close minded enough to think only people with faith, and more specifically, your faith, have morals about what they do in life.

How about your next post includes the righteousness of the Bush administration on their holy crusade into the middle east. I'd love to hear how Bush is a big evolutionist which is causing him to fight really hard for oi... for our country.

[TP]

Ha Ha Ha....I'm still waiting for all that evidence Chris...Ha Ha Ha.....

I can't stand reading any of these posts. Those who believe in God are bashing those that believe in evolution, & vice versa. My question is: What is the big deal about schools having the debate? Of course I qualify that remark by stating that I do not beleive this debate should occur in any public elementary or middle school. I beleive high school is the correct forum for such a debate, as by then the kids in those classes should have a more reasonable grasp between the beliefs they have been instilled with by their parents & families, & those of alternate beliefs/theories. My son has been instructed to tell ANY of his middle school teachers that try to introduce unproven or politically motivated material in the classroom that they are there to teach the subject at hand & to leave their opinion & political views out of the classroom. I do not advocate religous teachings in public school, but I also see that as this country continues to move away from the belief or faith in a higher being, the more morally corrupt our society has become, with individuals having little respect for themselves or others.

[Mike]

TP,

Sadly, that's why America is slowly losing out as a world power. The wait and see attitude causes a pattern of lethargy. Try being a go getter. Look for things yourself, don't wait for someone to hand it to you then spit in their face if you don't like it. You're working class, buddy. Just like all of us. Enjoy your niche of self importance while it lasts. As the world gets connected through mass communications and the internet, I hope that feeling inside you slowly dies and you realize that you have to actually do something if you want to feel like people owe you something.

[Chris W]

TP, *I'm* still waiting for you to tell me what your standard of evidence is - what would convince you? If nothing would convince you, at least be honest with us and come out and say it.

[Mike]

Anon at 4:12,

The problem with introducing any form of debate into the public schools with regards to creationism is that the best arguments that have ever been presented always seem to start with "God" and end with "dun it". It's tired, old, and untestable. I'll argue that at the high school level, there still shouldn't be an introduction of nonsense into science classes (aside from the obvious lack of science) because that is when all the knowledge from the previous 8 years and the development of the brain intersect and allow students to experience what they're being taught. In public high schools, biological science is one (maybe two) out of the four years anyways, and the topic of evolution may last a month of that year, if that. It isn't the time or the forum to try and challenge minds that, honestly, don't even care about the topic and are just doing so to graduate.

[TP]

Hi Mike,
Obviously you have no idea who you are talking to. I am a well educated,"Go getting", business owner that has spent way too much time interacting with a bunch of goverment subsidized losers. America is slowly losing its world power because we give way too much credence to some of these moronic oppinions and less to common sense. I have work to do....have to pay taxes to support these idiots.

[TP]

ps Chris,
Keep spinning your wheels

[Mike]

TP,

Your satire intrigues me. Please elaborate on the moronic opinions that you are paying to support. Also, only on a note of general curiosity, what line of business are you in?

[CH]

Mike, suppressing a belief as nonsense, where so many indivuals that have that belief, is in itself nonsense. Are you naive enough to beleive that children who have been raised in a religious family won't find exception in someone teaching them a theory? Why should we allow either position to be taught or discussed in science classes when those who beleive in evolution may not present it as a theory, & those who have religious beliefs may teach it as a very debatable theory using creationism in the background. It makes no sense to have either in the classroom when it may be taught so differently from class to class simply because of the beliefs of the educator.

[Chris W]

TP - So I guess that means nothing will convince you, and you're as closed-minded as you accuse other people of being. Nice to finally know.

CH - The answer is that teachers should have to teach the material in the state standards - no "intelligent design", no "irreducible complexity" crap, no flood geology, no false claims of no transitional forms, no nothing. Voila, problem solved!

[jcw]

I lived in Florida for 15 years, during the 70's thru 90's, and witnessed it morphing into a third world country. Guns in restaurants, teaching "creationism" in schools. You couldn't pay me enough money to have my kids "educated" in the "religious" Florida school system, or even go out to eat in Florida. They must be living in a parallel universe.

god bless you folks struggling so valiantly against the "evils of teaching evolution".

god bless you because you are so woefully uninformed in theology, the history of the holy scriptures and their development and christian scriptures, that YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE KRAP you spout off!!

please, please, for god and jesus' sake, instead of wasting your time here, sharing your ignorance with all of us, go out and do what jesus asked of peter in john: "feed my sheep!"

go find the sick, the needy, the powerless and use this energy caring for them as our lord requested.

STOP WASTING YOUR LIMITED INTELLECTS ON THESE MATTERS...YOU ARENT EQUIPPED FOR THEM!!!!

[TP]

jcw ....hows the weather up there in West Virginia.....?

Hey, I have an idea instead of wasting time teaching just one religion's creation belief teach them all AND while we're at it why doesn't the Legislature NOT GIVE CSX $700 million dollars and NOT GIVE RUBIO'S FRIEND $265 million dollars and RAISE CIGARETTE TAXES by a $1.00 a pack?

Red herring folks - follow the $$$$ who owns the land that CSX is going to purchase with our $700 million?

Just what role with Rubio's friend play in Rubio's bid for Governor (you know the guy, the one who is getting a $265 million of our money)?

Who benefits by the Legislature's failure to address TAX REFORM?

Who benefits by eliminting nursing home inspections???

Follow the money folks and remember in November.

CH, We're talking SCIENCE class, not a class about beliefs. End. Of. Story.

Anon 4:12, how many wars, how much violence has been as a result of people fighting over RELIGIOUS beliefs? To say that morals declining as a result of less religion - while others in favor of teaching creationism talk about the religious majority - is to not only try to have it both ways, but to insert your OPINION into a SCIENCE classroom. I am all for have an earlier and required comparative religions class, but science is solely for science.

Anne, BELIEF has no place in the SCIENCE classroom. I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. How about that in science? Oh wait, science is about tests, evidence, etc., NOT BELIEFS.

[Drew Smith]

CH wrote: "suppressing a belief as nonsense, where so many indivuals that have that belief, is in itself nonsense."

Failing to teach a particular religious belief is not "suppressing" that belief.

CH wrote: "Are you naive enough to beleive that children who have been raised in a religious family won't find exception in someone teaching them a theory?"

Do you know what the word "theory" means in science? Is there some reason that you would not want students to know what the best supported scientific theories are?

CH wrote: "Why should we allow either position to be taught or discussed in science classes when those who beleive in evolution may not present it as a theory..."

I don't "believe" in evolution. I *accept* the scientific fact of evolution (on the basis that it is observed) and the scientific theory that explains it.

The scientific *fact* of evolution (a set of generalized observations) should be presented as a scientific fact. The scientific *theory* of evolution (which explains the scientific fact of evolution) should be presented as a scientific theory.