Here’s a radical idea: More school

Finally, someone's talking about the elephant in the room: The need for a longer school day.

Rep. David Simmons, R-Altamonte Springs, raised the subject this week during committee debate on a bill mandating 30 consecutive minutes of PE for elementary and middle school kids. Out of frustration, the chairman of the House 21st Century Competitiveness Council may have offered the quote of the week: "We are, in fact, trying to shove 25 pounds of sugar into a 5-pound sack."

In an interview with The Gradebook, Simmons went further. Now that a solid accountability system is in place, Florida needs two more things to make its schools among the best in the nation, he said: A longer school day and better teacher pay. "Sometimes the solution to many of these problems in education is not rocket science," Simmons said. "The fact of it is, the children in Florida schools have too much to learn in too little a time."

Simmons said the Legislature's 1991 decision to shorten the school day as part of a budget-cutting effort had lasting repercussions. Florida’s 6- to 7-hour school day, he contends, is shorter than the school day in most industrialized countries. "I cant tell you we're pushing Third World here," he said. "But we're non-competitive."

Simmons continued: "Principals of elementary school have come to me and said, 'Rep. Simmons, all I need is seat time. Give me seat time. I have these minority students, because of poverty, because of their home environment, they need more time. With an extra hour a day, I can do magic with them.'"

Clearly, there won’t be any debate about a longer school year this year – not with all the budget cutting going on, again. But Simmons said the issue will be front and center once the crisis fades.

It's worth noting that Simmons pushed for a pilot project last year that would have given 10 struggling schools around the state (none in the Tampa Bay area) enough money to extend their days by one hour. Gov. Crist cut six from the list.

A report from the other four is due to the Department of Education by June 30.

- Ron Matus, state education reporter

Comments

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

To 10:19--paying someone for extra hours is not "more pay". More pay is when I am paid more for what I actually do at the present, rather than more for more work.

terminator,

A longer work day would be accompanied with more pay. A longer school day or a longer school year have both been PROVEN with research to lead to better student outcomes while class size reductions are only proven to impact elementary grades when the class sizes are much smaller than even our constitutional caps require. In other words, it was the stupid union folks who are drinking the stupid water and smoking the funny stuff.

It only took Simmons eight years to say one thing that I agreed with, but the Lord knows that it will be forever before terminator is right about anything. Tell us again how Rubio is going to stick it to Pruitt on the property tax debate. I need a good laugh.

This was the first thing that Rep. Simmons has said in eight years of service that I agreed with 100%. It makes perfect sense that Termie hates the idea.

[Sandra]

R:

Also, if I did the extra hour you suggest (for "study hall") when would I get to go home and see my family? I would leave work around 5:30 and get home around 6:30 pm (I drive a bit because I like where I teach).

[Sandra]

R:

Most people are hired for a 40 hour week why should teachers be different? Anything above would be overtime. I am not sure, in our current budget situation, the state could afford time and a half for thousands of teachers. Also, do I eat lunch? Yes, between copying, talking to my team about students, talking to guidance counselors, and talking to the bookkeeper about our upcoming fieldtrip. My school district gets a full day from me (and then some). They also get a full day out of most of the teachers I have ever worked with. Are there slackers? Of course, aren't there slackers at your place of business? I am just amazed that everyone has an opinion about teachers and yet very few actually want to teach.

[eloquentmind]

I, too, am confused. My paid day is 7:15-3:15, with just a 30 minute lunch. I work during my lunch, so my eating time is cut down to about 5 minutes. I work a paid 8 hour day, and then I take home about 2-3 hours additional work a day. I use Christmas Break, Spring Break, and Summer Break to grade and plan for days at a time. We SDHC high school teachers only have one 50 minute planning period to plan, grade, evaluate, and communicate with 150 students and their families. That's only 33 seconds a kid... Let’s put it in perspective. This should anger parents and teachers and students. If they lengthened our school day, I would quit teaching altogether. I already work 60+ hours. I have another job too. The kids are out of control. SpringBoard, a socialistic, dumb downed workbook/curriculum is on its way. So many parents see teachers as idiots and back their kids no matter what they do. Many administrators are condescending and don't back the teachers. THAT IS WHY 40 PERCENT OF TEACHERS QUIT WITHIN THE FIRST 3 YEARS!!! It isn’t at all what we think it would be like…

[Chris W]

Wendy:

While I'm on the subject, if you want "propaganda that's not based on any facts at all" I suggest you go check out Ben Stein's "Expelled" crap-umentary or read anything from the ICR or Discovery Institute.

And by the way, thanks for starting to foam at the mouth and throw around terms like "liberal" like they were insults. It's always nice when someone makes your case for you.

[Sick of Irresponsible GOP]

"Florida needs two more things to make its schools among the best in the nation, he said: A longer school day and better teacher pay."

Of course the GOPer is addressing part A but leaving out part B. Translation "everyone work longer hours for the same pay."

Also, I guess it would conveniently help the GOP to continue to wiggle out of the class size amendment that WE THE PEOPLE voted for.

Wake up - the GOP wants to cut funding to education SO THEY HAVE MORE TAX BREAKS TO GIVE TO THEIR BUSINESS BUDDIES. As soon as the voters realize what they're up to they're gone.

[Chris W]

Wendy:

Yes, I have school-age children. In addition, my wife is a teacher and I volunteer in her school so I know maybe a little more than your average poster. A good teacher (as opposed to a clock watcher) does wind up putting in a fifty- to sixty-hour week, answering emails and talking to parents and serving on committees and lots of other duties. Lots of politicians (and more than a few wannabe activists) just look at teachers and think "man, what a sweet deal!". They never stop to think what it's like to try and keep seven different groups of twenty to thirty students all moving in the same direction and learning as much as they can, all the while being judged on performance that can be affected by things that the teachers have no control over. How would you like to be judged in your job by whether or not your supervisor had breakfast that morning or whether your co-workers were divorced or not, or had drug problems or not, or came to work having had enough sleep or not?

Good teachers deal with all of that and get their kids ready for the FCAT, along with keeping them on track for graduation. If you blindly mandate longer school days without also mandating that teachers have more planning time to make the most of those longer days, the only thing you're going to do is stress them out even more than they are already.

As to preferring being a creationist, that's your prerogative. But that's like preferring to be one of those people who answers emails from a Nigerian diplomat asking for help getting $30 million out of the country in return for half or a third of it.

[jwt]

I agree that Tallahassee is not operating in the real world. I am utterly drained when I leave school each day--largely because of the 6/7 change and other issues I cannot control. EVERY day, I either leave school with a couple of hours of homework and/or just stay an hour or more late. I am in the majority. As it is, most teachers barely have the energy to be "on" for their new 8th period class (6/7). I'm not sure students would benefit from another hour of school.As it is--many have to take additional math and reading to compensate for FCAT "failures". Many teachers can't stay an extra hour--they have to get to their second job. Besides--with all the money problems--where will the bucks for paying teachers for the extra time?( We teachers told Tallahassee years ago that funding from the lottery was dumb....) What about bus drivers and transportation? There is more--but--it's Spring Break--I have more papers to grade.

[Wendy]

Chris W. - I would much rather be a "creationist with God on my side" than a loud-mouth liberal that spews comments with nothing to back them up. You say "no one did their homework for this article" but then you give no information to verify what you mean. Do you even have school-age children? Maybe the school day should be longer so we can throw some evolution classes in so our kids will be little liberals-to-be and can learn more propaganda that's not based on any facts at all!

[Glenn]

Florida's educational system needs improvement, no doubt. We cannot continue to focus on pleasing retirees and vacationers if this state is going to be what it should be - a destination for families to live, not just visit. Longer school days are a start. Higher standards and better-paid teachers are needed as well. (Why higher pay? To keep the good ones from going to Hot-Lanta).

[Simon]

I can't believe he mentioned third world countries in this article. I grew up overseas in third world countries and...well, yes, Florida is pushing it. When I got to St. Pete I was stunned at the educational system. I really did not think there were any like it in this country. It's not the teachers' fault. The fact that in Florida school is part time probably doesn't help. Not to mention the whole evolution, creationism and bussing thing. Oh, and the mass seductions.

Do these teachers really need more time around the students? Aren't they getting in enough trouble with the time they're given now? How about simply giving students more QUALITY time. Cut out all the B.S. in the classroom (fashion shows, talking back, cellphones, etc.) and TEACH! These days teachers spend more time dealing with non-educational matters than teaching. Teachers aren't allowed to take away cellphones (toys), have to put up with back-talking, inconsiderate loud-mouth students, and play babysitter all while the school board sits on their hands because they're affraid of offending someone.

[R]

Sandra, don't you eat lunch? Not that I'm arguing that you don't put in a lot of hours as a teacher!

A longer school day, with additional teacher pay for hours, would make better use of the facilities. When students are not at school the facilities sit vacant and do nothing.

One hour more of just study hall might improve some students grades significantly as many get no help or direction at home.

[Rodger]

What we really need is teachers that teach because thats what they are about not teachers that complain about the money they make and take that shoulder chip to the classroom and tell the kids their sob story.

[jr]

Jeff- Substitute for a week or shadow a teacher for a week and then say how easy it is.

Jason- If you really are a teacher, please proofread what you write before you post it. You're (not your) not really helping the image of teachers.

[Happy Jordan]

Sounds to me like you're using a longer school day as a baby sitting service " I have these minority students, because of poverty, because of their home environment, they need more time". Frankly I would like to have MY kids home more. I do agree that teachers are worth their weight in gold and need to be paid more....

[Chris W]

Sandra:

As you can see from some of the posters on this board (as well as some of the dunces we have in the legislature), the answer is "no, someone did not do their homework."

This board is full of big talkers who don't have the stones to actually identify themselves when they post, and don't have the skills to do some actual research before they write something.

You see this behavior in a most (but not all) creationists who post here. They're convinced that because God is on their side that they don't have to double-check their logic and make sure they actually know what they're talking about. It leads to some really entertaining posts.

[Sandra]

OK...I am confused. I am a middle school teacher in Hillsborough County. I work an 8 hour day (8:30-4:30 pm). This is my "official" workday--what I get paid for. Of course, I work longer than that. Did someone not do their homework for this story or is Hillsborough County different from the other counties around?

[Sidney]

Ted, do you have children in school who are stupid and need more time to learn?

[Sidney]

Jeff, if you can pass the background check, you should volunteer in a school and get there when the teacher does and leave when the teacher leaves.

That would shut you up.

[bmay1]

absolutely the kids should have more class time to improve their f cat scores.

[Ted]

They need more school in Fl. The kids here are stupid.

[jan]

We will get the money for school from the money the state saves incarcerating juveniles for the shennanigans they get up to when we let 'em out before their working parents get home.

[Julia]

Most parts of the country and private schools do have a longer day. Friends and family in other states have a 7 hr day. There's no chance for PE, recess or arts w/ a 6 hr day. Sorry Jeff but teachers work much longer hours than what you think. They are college educated professionals that are working a minimum of 50 hrs a week w/ having to be at school an hour earlier and hour later. Factor in all the prep time and grading that goes on at home and it is easily a 9-10 hr day minimum. I am not a teacher, but am friends w/ several of them. Not an easy job. I am grateful for the teachers we have!

[rowdy]

Okay Jeff. Go back to school, get a teaching degree, and go out and try it for a few years. Then you can see if teachers are overpaid. What a dunce.

[Jason]

jeff your an idiot! I am a teacher and I spend countless hours at home after school and over breaks grading and preparing! Everybody thinks teaching is this easy job that we just have to show up and pass out worksheets (this is done by some but I think it's deplorable and those should be fired). But you have to be one everyday! I don't have an office job where if I am not feeling well or if I'm not in a good mood I don't have to deal with people if I don't have to! I do have to deal with hundreds of people face to face everyday whether I feel good or not. I have to turn it on because those young adults depend on me! There is not faking! I believe I have one of the most rewarding jobs in this country, but I also feel I have one of the toughest! So Jeff again you are an idiot and you have no idea until you come teach a week then lets discuss your views.

[Kenneth]

Jeff - I challenge you to find a full-time teacher that works 6 hours a day as you say. For every hour I spend in the classroom, I spend another hour in preparation.

[Jeff]

TEACHERS MAKE PLENTY NOW FOR A 6 HOUR DAY, SUMMERS OFF, AND MANY WEEKS AND HOLIDAYS OFF THROUGH THE SCHOOL YEAR.

[rowdy]

Terminator has a serious problem. Maybe he should go back to school and learn some proper language. Doo doo hole?Come on now.

[Bud]

I see nothing wrong with a longer school day, and yes it will cost money however school boards should look at their schools activity and I'm sure there are some things in every school that can be CUT and are un-necessary!!

[terminator]

Simmons must be smoking crack and drinking a Schlitz Malt Liquor Bull!

Where in the heck does he think we'll get the money for a longer day?

These bozos don't even want to pay for what we've got now.

Simmons is talking out of his doo doo hole. Is this guy arrogant or what.