Jeb, vouchers, Martians and food fights

So where does former Gov. Jeb Bush stand on universal vouchers – the idea that all students should get vouchers? Ultimately, is that the best way to get more kids the education they need? We don't know.

The Gradebook asked the former governor at the Orlando summit yesterday, but Bush didn't say yes or no. Maybe Bush has answered this question before, but if so, we haven't seen his response.

We weren't gunning for a gotcha. The question was intended as a starting point: Will more vouchers mean more competition and more improvement? Does Florida have enough vouchers to maximize competition and improvement? Should it wait to see what more research shows before it offers more? (Are these reasonable questions?)

We also thought it relevant given that voucher opponents routinely bring up the Trojan Horse argument about Florida's current voucher programs, which are targeted to poor, minority and disabled kids. How in the world could anyone be against them? Because, opponents say, it's step one towards the vouchers-for-everyone that some folks do see as a solution.

Read on for Bush's response in its entirety.

- Ron Matus, state education reporter

Do you think every kid should be able to get a voucher? Is that something you'd like to see as a goal at some point in the future, an offer of a voucher to every family?

Bush: I don't think that's realistic. But I think a customized learning experience, a student-centered, student-driven system …

Let me start over, Ron. If you were a Martian, and parachuted down, and you were an expert on business systems or an expert on education for that matter, and you were sent by the Martian government to study other places and you landed here, and you were asked to report back, you would not design this system.

And if you were focused on how can we assure that every child is going to get the kind of quality education for them to be successful, it probably wouldn't be 180 days, it wouldn't be seat-driven, it wouldn't necessarily have the teachers being taught the way they're taught in universities to be trained. You'd give them different skills so that they were equipped to deal with the world. You'd use technology more. It probably would be life long. It would merge into a workforce development area. So that the obsolete industries that are - not to bring up a sore subject, but like newspapers - where you can retrain people to take new skills and whether you're 50 or 40 or 18 is not as relevant.

Think about it, we're stuck with what we had because that's just the way it is. But it wouldn't be this system. It wouldn't be the system that looks like something very similar to the system that existed in 1950.

And so, back to the question of vouchers: Maybe it's a system that has significant taxpayer support. Maybe it's a hybrid of public and private. Maybe it shouldn't even matter. Maybe that's not even the relevant point. Maybe the focus ought to be on outcomes rather than inputs. And if we could get to that debate, where we were heralding the success of learning and not so focused on where that learning took place, that to me would be victory. Because that's where we need to be. We need to be learning in different ways, and learning more things with greater rigor than we have today.

But do you think universal vouchers, or something approaching …

Bush: (Cuts off question) See you're, that's the paradigm we're in now. And that's the debate, and that's why you're here probably.

But is that the best way to get to that customized education you're talking about?

Bush: I'm waiting for the Martian consultant result to come back. Because the story line is then not about learning. It's about this it's threatening. When it doesn't have to be threatening. What I would like to say is that after eight years of being governor, and many years prior to that of being in the fight for education reform, and since then, through this foundation, what I'd like to say is that can't we just agree for a moment whether we believe in more school choice or not, whether we believe in reform to a degree or we don't, that it's got to get better.

Can't we start with the premise that the outcomes we have, that the level of learning for the great majority of kids, is not working? And if we start from there, and we get beyond the current food fight, I think we'd get a different result. So I think you know my views on these things. You just want me to say it publicly so that's the story line in the article. You'll probably do it anyways.

That certainly wasn't my intent. We know you're passionate about vouchers. But I don't know that we know to what extent …

Bush: (Cuts off question) I actually do read y'all's work online. I'm passionate about vouchers for the catalyst it brings to learning. That's not what comes out. So just as I think the conversation about these issues needs to be deeper, and a little more interesting, so too do I think the coverage of it needs to be a little less sterile and a little less confrontational and a little more focused on the bigger issues. I don't ascribe bad motives to people that don't agree with my views on this. Nor should they. And part of the reason is I think the coverage of this is focused on this political battle rather than the broader results. So, I gave it my best shot.

Comments

Don't see what the big deal is... go back and read the "Founding Fathers!" Read about the founding of Rhode Island, the development of the "Seperation Clause" in the 1st amendment! I am an evangelical Bapstist Christian and state funding of religion used to be anathema to my brothers and sisters in the faith! In the past when Church and State have been combined, great injustices have been perpetrated in the name of God!

change for the sake of change will not help society. We have built an extremely beneficial system of public education based on our Constitution. Equal opportunity, due process, and seperation of church and state are just a few of the basic tenants.

Vouchers create schools where the leadership is not held accountable for their actions. Discrimination, lack of fair treatment and religious persecution take precedence over real education. Accountability plays no role whatsoever!

[second look]

My views on this subject change the more informed I become. I completely understand JB's idea now. Change is what keeps us current and fresh. Education in the U.S. and this state needs a huge change. Are vouchers the answer? I don't know. But until someone comes up with another idea, it is the only one on the table that actually benefits children I do not see what the big deal is. Maybe with the voucher program, big business will start investing in education. Something has got to give because the way it is now does not help anyone.

[Duane]

Wonder if Jebby would be so gung ho about vouchers if he knew the money was going to a Muslim school to teach muslim children how to hate Americans. All Jebby wants to do is have christian schools supported by public money.