Schools consider 4-day weeks

Hey moms and dads. Have you heard this one yet? School districts all across Florida, including some here in the Tampa Bay area, are looking at running classes on a four-day schedule to save money. And that's not just for the summer months, either.

Nope, as the price of gas and electricity rise and tax revenue slides, leaders in Hernando, Pasco and other school districts are at least raising the prospect of shutting down the schools and idling buses for one more day a week during the academic year, too.

"All 67 districts in Florida are considering it, but no one has implemented it," Bay County superintendent James McCalister told his School Board, which also is considering the idea, according to the Northwest Florida Daily News.

Of course, districts would have to work out details dealing with the state requirement ensuring students get 180 days of school, FCAT scheduling and the like. And they'd have to deal with you, too.

We imagine your work places probably wouldn't be moving to four-day weeks to coincide with the school schedule. So if you like the idea - or more likely, if you don't - you might want to start paying attention to the debate as your local school board talks about its budget plans.

Comments

[Will & savv]

Heck yeah, we should tottally have 4 day school weeks cos, cos, cos of everything, rock on dudes .

[Madison]

I guess I agree and disagree with this. As a student now I would love to be out of school 3 times a week instead of 2. I would save money along witht the school, I wouldnt have to have so many stressful days, and heck who wouldnt want to have an extra day off. The problem for some kids though are they might not have a place to go, school could be a refuge for them from abusive parents or their family might not have much money for food that school lunchs help them. Also, high schooled vandilize many public and private things. I know not all Teens do, but many will and can. Also, they can get into more fights on there own without supervision for those 6-7 hours in school.

Although, these things happen where ever you go there is a better chance that it will happen more often with more days off. All in all I do think that many more states should switched to 4 out of 7 days of school. Many of the problems can be resolved easily with daycares, clubs, and group activities. So you can count me in.

[middle school student]

a 4 day chool week would be awesome it would make me not want to die at school so much. if the economy goes down any more there could even be a 3 day school week. hell in 5 years there could even be no school week

ho

[nicole]

u suck!

[1+1=9]

Kimberly,
You spend hours online looking up ways to do your Kindergarten child's homework?! I'd say for that reason alone your opinions about schooling are pretty much invalidated on account of stupidity.

[waaaahhhhhhh]

*too

[waaaaahhhhhh]

cs,
don't have kids if you can't take care of them. quit blaming everything on others. and just because someone is a teacher does not mean they don't have the right to an opinion. they are people to.

[patcon]

momof4, When any new component of FCAT is introduced there is a period during which the grades don't count for either students or schools. This is done to validate questions, establish scoring standards, etc. So for you, the portions of the FCAT you took may have been "optional"; but the intent was always to use it as a "gateway" for graduation, replacing the old HSCT.

[momof4]

What happened to the FCAT not being used against the student I was one of the first taking that stupid test and was told it optional and was just to grade the school had no effect on the student or his\her grade Now if you do not pass it within the states standards you do not graduate???

[KIMBERLY]

My personal opinion is what does it matter 4 days a week is no different than 5 the "teachers" send home all the stuff our kids are suppose to be learning in school anyhow and I have to sit here online everynight looking up how to do the stuff so I can teach it to my child due to the "lets push them thru everything and hope something sticks attitude" the education system is now pushing on our children I am not sure what is going on in these classrooms but my child is bringing home stuff I know I was not being taught at her age and she does not even understand so I have to stress to figure out how to explain it to her since I was taught it 20+ years ago. For crying out loud in Kindergarden she can home writing letters that appeared to be cursive instead of the plain old block print we were taught when just starting writing. I did graduate high school and was a very good student but I can not remember everything I learned yet now I have to relearn it all to teach my children! It scares me to even think about when she gets into middle school and brings her homework that her teacher is educated and gets paid to teach her how to do and I have no idea how to do. Its one thing to send home review work but this is something different every night and seems like way too much for a 1st grader to be doing.

[Susan]

What about technology? There has to be a way we could tap into this idea. There are organizations that are providing laptops to students in the third world as a minimum cost of about $100. Could we also do something like this?

The business world is embracing this idea to support their employees, it is called telecommuting. Can we do tele-learning?

[JB]

If students are still required to go to school 180 days why not make it 6 days a week and go to school only during the "cooler" months November to May. Then close the schools for the next 5 months. That should save some money.

[Donna]

Hi,
As a parent, I love the idea. Four day weeks are used in three other (Republican Run) states and it works. They go 71/2 to 8 hours a day to make up for the extra day. It did not extend their school year at all. As parents we need to learn to adjust to changes, at least if there for the good. This would save me at least a tank of gas a month and an extra day to help with homework. Hope they do it.

[teacher2]

Timmy....Pasco is where I teach...and block works if you give it a chance....just like any new thing..it takes time and a willingness to try it.

[Timmy!]

Since there are NO public schools in Hillsborough County on block this year I have to wonder where teacher2 is referring.

[Julia]

Mommywithlittleones -I will refrain from using the strangely combative tone with you that you seem to have used with me.

My kids are in swim lessons, gymnastics and piano too. How would you have time for these afterschool activities if school got out after 4?We eat dinner together as a family so these activities need to be wrapped up prior to 5:30.

There's a big difference between athletics where they are moving around and playing with friends. My kids would have a difficult time focusing on academics for that many hours. This would be a huge challenge for boys. Kids have very little free time for just play these days and that is very sad.

[teacher2]

I am a middle school teacher and my best friend is a HS teacher in Tampa Bay area schools.

Our middle/ and high school has had block scheduling for over 10 years and
the middle school has received A's from the state for the 11 of 12 years, and made AYP as well.

Block just becomes habit.

The most recently opened Middle/HS combo also has block scheduling.

The kids can still learn as long as the teacher presents lessons in a variety of learning modes within the 80 minute block....reading, writing, kinesthetic, listening....etc.

Stop making excuses, and be open to new things and see what amazing things can happen.

[mommywithlittleones]

Wow that's quite interesting Julia,...since many little ones have other stuff to do with parents after school is out, like shuttling them to soccer, baseball, ballet, music lessons, YMCA activities....

They have way more energy than their teachers....

...it's the teachers that may need the nap by 4 p.m. not the little ones...

have you ever taught the little ones?...

I had them at day camp/day care from 6:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. and they can do way more than you give them credit for
as long as they are having fun/learning they can go on and on like energizer bunnies.

You underestimate them.

[Julia]

Again,what about very young children. They can not handle learning until 4 o'clock.I just can't help but feel learning is going to be sacrificed here. Plus, I still maintain giving HS students a whole extra weekend day will lead to nothing but problems.

They tried block scheduling in my HS.They quit because they realized even older HS kids could not focus for that long. As a result, the teacher cut back what was being taught for things like study hall and did not get through the whole curriculum. This was an AP class w/ very focused students. It was tried for one semester and stopped.

[fuji]

ALthough the state could modify the 180 day rule, the issue of Carnegie credits for high school students would be difficult to get around. This was a major issue in designing the Hillsborough calendar for this year and the next two years (another Legislative quagmire). And, no, high school would not be on a different schedule than middle or elementary. By the way, I graduated from a private school and went to a University in another state.

[Teacher]

Any change will be met with resistance, but if we are doing what is best for the students, change should occur. I love the suggestions offered by teacher2. Study hall, extra electives, and a chance to meet the new p.e. requirements imposed on schools- all positives in my opinion!

[teacher2]

Latitude,
I too am a middle school teacher and with the new PE requirement, why not have the kids do 45 minutes of PE at the end of the day to let off some steam? I would be right there with them....A healthy body helps create a healthy mind.

Or build in the study hall we old timers used to have where a student can get extra help from any one of his/her teachers instead of having the current Extended school day for low FCAT scorers. Study hall/ or assistance hall would eliminate the "I didn't have time to do my homework" excuse.

Or it could offer those students who have no electives due to read 180/intensive reading/math another period of an elective making them more likely to choose something they love doing....graphics, technology,computers, or a middle school type of academy like the ones being started in the high schools.

Who says it cannot be done?
If our forefathers had the same mentality we would still be British subjects.

[stupidityabounds]

the state would just modify the requirement to state, "180 days or its equivalent"...
.....why are people so stupid?

oh wait they graduated from FLORIDUH schools.

[fuji]

If the state requires 180 DAYS, how will going to 4-day school weeks save money if buses must still roll for 180 days? Now, if the kids went 4 days per week and the teachers got the fifth to use as planning... oh wait, would they need overtime pay?

[teacher]

Dear DB-
Yes- I hate to grade homework... I hate to give homework. I believe that children should be forming opinions rather than spitting out facts which they will soon forget. I believe children should be applying knowledge rather than looking up vocabulary in the textbook. I believe students who actually do homework will be successful without it. I believe students who simply copy homework from another peer will not learn. I do not see the importance of just simply 'homework' from a textbook. We need to get creative in teaching children- I would rather have an extra 10 minutes to assess the student's learning gains in my classroom. I would love to assess knowledge from active learning.

These are all things that I see in middle school. I LOVE my job. I am a two time- Teacher of the Year. I am a yearbook sponsor (for free). I work summer camps (for free) to help enrich student learning.

Do I believe that many times homework is given as an 'easy grade'? Yes. This many times is busy work given to pad students grade when they perform poorly in a class.

[DB]

So here I am, school is out for the summer and I am reading all these comments about school in the future, Four days of school, hmmm. As someone commented, what about the students? Is anyone figuring out what every Monday will be like catching up because the students now had 3 days since the last encounter with their teachers? Do you know what it is like now after just 2 days every weekend? Our students need qualified, justified AND consistent time in the classroom. Teachers already work an average of 10 hours a day so that isn't going to scare us--second jobs included. Except, of course, the middle school teacher who said "we HATE to grade homework!" Why the hell did you become a teacher?! Maybe YOU hate it, do not include all of us in your misery. The majority of us learned it was part of the job description. Do you even understand why homework is important? Your comment explains so much to me being at the high school level.

And how dare some of you make comments about who should and shouldn't have children? How dare you tell people how they should run their households, their jobs, child care and all the other things you are attacking? It is not 1950 and will never be again. We can only look at today and our future. We need long range plans.

Four day work weeks, changing start/end times, bus schedules, how many periods a day, how long a day, how many weeks and so on, are short range plans. Yes, we need some of these as we speak, some still need further exploration.

But now let me shake this up a bit. How about long range plans for solar energy in our schools? How about electric busses in the future? Initial costs, outrageous; paybacks, a million-fold; our students future, priceless.

Okay, I had my dream moment; one is allowed to dream. Four day work week for schools? To work realistically, ALL businesses would have to comply, period.

[Julia]

I am glad some one else brought up elementary students. They are still very young. These are 5 year olds people. They are not robots. The extra hour and change would just get lost in the shuffle and the kids would wind up short changed out of a WHOLE day of education. You can not expect tiny kids to just suck it up and learn an extra hour +. Remember, back in the old days, Kindergarten was half day. Many times 1st and 2nd grade got out an hour earlier than the other grades. Now you will be expecting them to be in school for probably 2-3 additional learning hours that most of you never had as kids. I am at home so I am not opposed to this because of childcare issues.

I would not be opposed if this meant a shortened summer. I just think they need to have 180 days. Adding hrs to the school day will not be helpful to small kids. I think it would also allow teens to get into more trouble.

[PM]

How much does the state spend on the FCAT?

[teacher on exile]

Amen "am"

[am]

Also, the focus of this discussion should be about how a 4 day school week will affect the children. Regardless of cutting costs or getting to have a 3 day weekend, if it makes an already insufficient school system even worse, it should not even be considered. It seems we are overlooking the main reason for school - THE ABILITY OF CHILDREN TO LEARN!

[IBT]

One sure fire way to cut some education dollars at the state level is to trim back the FCAT.

Mr. Solochek, this would be an interesting story.

[am]

I am amazed by some people's callousness towards others. Bashing each other doesn't solve problem's. I think if everyone was willing to at least try to understand others problems, instead of having the attitude of its not my problem things would be better for everyone (yea right.. like that would happen in this society - LOL) Anyway, to those who say single parents stop complaining - you should have made better choices - you are also naive :o). No matter how good a choice a person makes, in a situation where there are supposed to be two responsible people you can only control your own choices... most go into marriage and family with the best of intentions and planning, but still have no choice if the other partner decides to make "bad choices" ....becomes abusive, develops dependancy issues, or just decides to leave (be careful life can change in the blink of an eye and you may end up on the other side - maybe not as a single parent, but in some way). In the long run when we disregard others needs it ends up coming right back to us - tax payers end up paying for more forced to live on the system - so if your attitude is its their problem, believe me it will be all of ours when more lose thier jobs and end up using tax dollars to support them on Welfare. As far as a 4 day week, I think it would but great if most M-F 9 to 5 employers change to the 4 day wk (don't think that will happen) and also have great concern re a longer day and how it will affect attention span and learning. Also, it may cut the transportation costs of busing, but what about the funding lost for the 5th day?

[teacher]

The school day itself would also change. I am sure that a 'study hall' would be 1 of those hours where students could do homework and receive extra help from a teacher. Also- homework is typically issued as there are not enough hours in the day to teach. Now- by adding 10 minutes to every class- teachers could assess progress in their classroom- thus eliminating homework. Trust me- We HATE to grade homework and would welcome letting it go.

I teach middle school also- and as long as you are engaging the student in hands on learning and not lecturing- they are retaining knowledge. And everyone should be teaching through active learning- or the students will not retain the information.

[Teacher on exile]

TRUE, TRUE,TRUE,but although the financial ramifications might be good we need to look at students ability to learn in a longer day, attention span, etc. Their performance will not be better by extending the day,it might be worse.Furthermore,teachers also would be overtired and the amount of time they have to grade and plan, etc, would be less.
Education is now all about money,not about students.Or this IDEA would have never been proposed.Glad I am leaving the profession.

[latitude]

I just don't think kids will be able to handle the longer hours. I teach middle school, and the kids after lunch are usually much less able to learn--they are either tired or they are hyper. And there wouldn't be any time for homework in the evening. Sports practices, dance lessons, or just playing kickball in the neighborhood.

[whynotchangethewholething?]

Tina,
Many people forget that the lottery also goes to BRIGHT FUTURES scholarships not only to K-12 students....that alone has made it possible for kids to go to college based on merit not financial reasons.

A 4 day work week is already in other industries without negative ramifications, hospitality,retail,medical,etc. The school calendar is also based on an agrarian society....we are no longer that society so why not change the whole thing.

All over the US schools are going to 10 weeks on and 3 weeks off because so much knowledge is lost over 11 weeks of summer vacation that teachers spend the first 10 weeks playing catch up.

...so why not do 4 day work week/10 hours a day....and also 10 weeks on 3 weeks off throughout the school year....where parents and kids can go vacationing at any time of the year....and stop taking their kids out during school hours...

Secondly, finding day car for 3 weeks will be no different than finding day care for 11 summer weeks....it might actually be easier... and spreads the cost over the whole year rather than paying for summer things in a lump sum.

The one Friday weekly care can be picked up by the current day care centers that already have before and after care, costs should be the same since hours of use are the same.

The population that might suffer is the teachers because they wouldn't be able to have an extra summer job, but having a second job throughout the year will just mean they can pick up the extra hours in the 3 week hiatus rather than the 11 week summer break.... they too could also find better vacation rates on "off" seasons too....or do their necessary professional planning then as well.

Oh wait, on second thought.... this is FLORIDA and DISNEY/ORLANDO is the power that will determine the school schedule so they can have more cheap labor longer....silly me I forgot!

[Tina]

By the way, does anyone realize the lottery only amounts to $10.00 per student, per year?

[Teacher]

For those of you complaining about having to worry about what your kids will do on the friday off and you have to work... What are they doing now? Most of our students are on summer vacation where they are home Monday - Friday... Figure it out.

If you are the parent who sends them to summer camp because you want them to have a productive and supervised summer, you will probably do the same on that friday.

If you are the parent who lets your kids stay at home all summer, than that extra day will not matter at all.

[Teacher]

Cs, you're right. It is an awful attitude to have, but it is also awful to be in the position teachers are in. We are faces wages freezes or cuts, cuts in benefits, increased responsibility, and when a creative solution like this comes about, people want to shoot it down before examining the details of the potential benefits.

I appreciate that you think teachers shouldn't have to get a 2nd job, but the truth is, many of us do. And I also appreciate that everyone is trying to save money in these tight times, which means someone's going to be left unhappy.

[Chris]

Well Kitty... I'll just say that some families do just fine, actually thrive with one parent home with the kids. Believe it or not, to some of us single income households, those spiraling costs you complain about are more a minor annoyance since we're not completely tapped. We actually have a whole second income in reserve if we need it. You made the job choices you did.... I made mine. I don't have anything to complain about regarding my pay and neither do my employees.

BTW... back in the early 80s when you got married, a VCR cost approx $400... or around 120 hours (3 weeks full time) at minimum wage. Today you can pick one up from Amazon for $30... or around 4.5 hours at minimum wage. Woohoo!!

"If you don't make bad choices, you won't have to deal with inconveniences in the future."

No, often times, 5hit happens. Hardly any of the populace had any "choice" in our current gas-food-lay-off crisis. Nor did we choose the weak dollar, war debt, ect... bestowed upon us.

Regardless, this proposal is all talk and will never pass. Instead the schools will operate on shoestring budgets with inadequate teachers, cranking out mediocre students who maybe - might get lucky and land a job in construction or a valet parking attendant at a hotel. Go Flori- duh!

Not withstanding, for all those who voted for the property swap, which basically gutted what small tax base we had, and are now accusing Legislature of being irresponsible... who's fault is it really? They have to deal with the hand we gave them.

[Woody]

a 4 day work week means 4 days pay so where is the savings ? Expenses increase but income does not and jobs are lost overseas or to aliens who will work for less.

[Jrad]

Parents on who make minimum wages, have kids to get raises! food stamps, tax cuts, etc,etc.

[ME]

I love how we're spending millions of dollars to erect a new stadium for a baseball team that has been losing since we got the franchise, but only starts winning during these proposals, but we have to cut millions from the education system. I also love how 10 schools in Pinellas County are closing, but the ones open are as cramped as ever. Being a stay at home mom I'm not opposed to this necessarily, but why is it that so much money is going towards things that are so unnecessary but our children's education is put at risk. Man's thinking...go figure.

kitty, there is nothing ridiculous about expecting people to take some personal responsibility. Don't throw out the comparison of minimum wage and housing prices. That is irrelevant to the point. People should be in a financial position to have a parent stay at home to raise their offspring. If you don't make bad choices, you won't have to deal with inconveniences in the future. If the cost of everything is "sprialing" then people just have to learn to do without. When did the US turn into an entitlement country? Even Kennedy, a Dem, said "Ask not what your country can do for you....." The great thing about this country is that ANYONE can be as successful as they want and buy anything they want IF they are willing to work hard for it.

Kitty, you hit the nail on the head! My husband and I have the same conversation-- if we're college educated with somewhat decent jobs and we're constantly finding ways to cut back, what happens to people who simply have nowhere else to cut? And, how soon will we fall into that category? Our ability to put money into savings has all but disappeared because the cost of everything has gone up yet our salaries remain rather stagnant. I thought your examples comparing minimum wage to home prices and rents were spot on and illustrate the sad state of affairs with the job market.

[kitty]

Wow Chris, I made a mile-long rant all you do is make an obtuse remark about people making minimum wages bearing children? Wow. But I'll play along.

The artificially low minimum wage keeps all other wages artificially low. Our children are grown up and gone.

My husband is a retired career military man. We're both college-educated, and we have decent jobs that allow us to have a small modest home, healthy food and a bit left over to sock away in our nest egg every month, but we able to put less and less into that nest egg because wages aren't keeping up with the cost of everything. We didn't get pay raises last year, and we've been advised we won't be getting them again this year. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it's just a matter of time before we have to start dipping into that nest egg to cover basic expenses. So much for retiring some day.

Before you suggest we get better or second jobs, bear in mind that there are people losing their jobs at an alarming rate. We consider ourselves to still one job each, and we do get the opportunity for overtime periodically. The unemployment rate increased from 5% in April to 5.5% in May. Unemployment is measured by the number of new unemployment compensation claims filed. On top of that, there are only so many hours in a day, and so many hours a day that someone SHOULD work. Overwork makes a person a danger to themselves and everyone they come in contact with - and they tend to get sick a lot, thereby creating a burden on the health care system, and it's all downhill from there.

I'm alarmed and concerned not so much for myself as people who have less than me. On memorial day we had hot dogs and burgers instead of ribs and steaks like we did in previous years, and there are many places we can and will cut back. I wonder what people who used to have hot dogs and burgers in previous years had instead?

[John]

The lack of math skills is funny. You work 4 x 10 hour days => 1 work week. Not everyone can participate. A lot of people work on the weekends or some other shift pattern. But the majority of the workforce can adapt to a 4 day work week. If you can't, so sorry. Schools going to a 4 day week, same amount of instruction time. Lazy teachers? Fire them, there are plenty of new teachers looking for work. A 4 day work week would mean that most of us would get another day to spend with our familes or other interests. What a great concept. Learn to adapt. Remember, THE MAJORITY RULES! AND IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!!

Hallie, move closer to work and sell the BMW.