Which students are left behind? The brightest

No Child Left Behind has moved the needle for struggling students. But it hasn't done much for those who excel, says a report released today by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute. The think tank found while the bottom 10 percent of students have made solid academic gains in recent years, the gains for the top 10 percent have been minimal.

Fordham isn't alone in raising troubling questions about this potential downside to accountability. Teachers worry about it all the time, as this 2006 St. Petersburg Times poll story showed. But the new report is sure to put more of a spotlight on an issue that hasn't gotten enough attention. Both the 2002 No Child Left Behind Act and Florida's accountability system force schools to focus more on the students at the bottom, who are disproportionately poor and minority. But is there a tradeoff?

The wonks boil it down to this: Can schools be excellent and equitable at the same time?

"No Child Left Behind appears to be making progress toward its stated goal: narrowing achievement gaps from the bottom up. Let us celebrate the gains of our lowest achieving students," Fordham President Chester E. Finn Jr. said in a press release. "But in a time of fierce international competition, can we afford to let the strongest languish?"

Advocates for gifted children agree. The effect of No Child on gifted programs has made national headlines for years.

The National Association for Gifted Children sent out a statement to coincide with the Fordham report's release: "I hope this study serves as a wake-up call if we as a nation are truly committed to leaving no child behind and investing in students from all ability levels to maximize their potential," said Joyce Van Tassel-Baska, the group's past president. "Nothing less than our future is stake."

- Ron Matus, state education reporter

Comments

[basicedshouldhavequaltime]

Gifted still have gifted classes in elementary and middle that they qualify for by IQ...and then they can go on to Honors/AP in high school.

Special Ed have co teach and self contained to meet their needs too.

The ones left behind are the middle/high performing basic ed kids who are not gifted lumped with the lower performing ones so the low ones don't feel like they are dumb.

What was wrong with ability grouping like we all grew up with?

Oh yes, the lower performing kids felt bad and so started the "feel good curriculum"......this is the price we have paid for the "self esteem factor"....

High schools have the Honors/AP track but nothing for the kids between the low performing and the Honors.......
aka the basic education student.

Middle performing basic students like middle classes are getting the shaft again...it's the American way, so why should schools be any different?

Middle performers are accurately measured by the FCAT because the test is set up to be an on grade level performance measure. The problem is if a student was reading three years above level at the start of the year the test will not show anything about what was or was not done for him/her. Also, if a student is far below grade level, there is very little about the FCAT that will measure the true gains (or lack of gains) because it only looks for on grade level skills and benchmarks.

There is nothing about accountability in general that keeps them from really measuring the gains of all students except that Jeb wanted the focus to only be this way. NCLB is even worse. Really measuring "gain" scores would require tests that wrapped around more than just the standards for a single grade level. It is more difficult to do this successfully, but if they did it would provide for a much stronger accountability system.

[Kenneth]

Part of the problem, in my opinion, is that we look poorly on teachers who have degrees in their teaching subject, opting instead for teachers with more general education degrees. We even deter teachers from gaining graduate degrees in their subject. Higher performing students need to be taught by professionals with specialized knowledge in the subject matter - not by someone who took a hodgepodge of classes centered around dealing with the behavioral and learning issues of poor performing students.

[Mary]

My child tested in the top half percentile in the nation. Obviously very gifted, but there is nothing in place in Pinellas to keep boosting my child up and beyond. Best they can do is gifted once a week. If my child was bottom half percentile, would get all kinds of extra tutoring, special programs, hand holding, one-on-one. But because child excels, they're largely ignoring child. I guess just hoping child will continue on this track. I wish there was more for my child. Private school, that I can't afford, would take child and continue building on the already solid foundation. Special programs, extra courses, more hands-on lessons and experiences, even promoting to higher grade. But not public schools. They have to spend all their money/time on underperformers.

[Dan]

As a lazy student, but one who excelled in a university setting (I got my Masters), I too always thought that its the high-middle students, the high B, low A average students who get the least attention. In college I became a bit of a fan of the Japanese educational system. This was in the late 1990s. At that time they only had one educational standard. No advanced, no basic, no AP. It was the responisbility of the smarter kids to help the less bright. It was a team environment and the concept of "self-esteem" and everyone should be able to get a "A" didn't exist. There were A students, B students and so on. And there was an expectation that everyone should go to college. Vocational jobs were just as valued as Professional ones. Bruce Feiler and Jim Fallows have both written so very good books about the pluses and negatives of how they organize their schools versus ours.

[dan]

I meant to say that there wasn't an expectation for everyone to go to college.

[pascochildsmom]

My child is well below grade level, due to laziness. When she didn't want to read the book for a report they gave it to her on tape. Tell me how is this helping... it's not. They don't push hard enough in school, they need to go back to sink or swim. If you're not on your grade level then guess what you're not in that grade! We have 4th graders that are doing 1st grade work.. they don't want to hold them back because it will hurt their self esteem, give me a break.... get theese children ready for the real world! No instead we label them. With ADD and ADHD and unknown learning disabliites. Let's baby them some more great job Pacso.... Great job

[Drive Through Master's Degree]

Well, Dan, obviously you were not that high achieving. "Masters," in the context of a college degree, is spelled correctly as a "master's degree"; as in, “I have earned a master’s degree.”

$10 says that your degree is from Nova Southeastern or some other low-quality on-line school, and another $10 says that your degree is in education – without a thesis, no doubt.

And, if I am correct, don’t pretend, even for a millisecond, that your “portfolio” project is anywhere near the rigor of a thesis.

[kitty]

We're Floridians, and I'm so glad my kids attended Department of Defense schools overseas. They both had outstanding grades and nearly perfect GPAs, but so did most of the other kids. IMHO, small class size and a variety of extracirricular activities played a large part in that.

Low student scores "improved" because they PUSHED OUT the children who needed the most help. Then, just as in Texas, lied and obfuscated about the dropout rates.

Whole deal was a boondoggle to enrich Bush family and cronies who sell the tests and the material which is supposed to "fix" what their "test" says is wrong.

Goal is destroying public education to create permanent underclass which is exploitable.

Maybe mommy bush will "donate" so we too can be conned into buying Neil Bush made in Mexico cartoon COWs.

The greed of these elitist plutocratic dollar royals is insatiable.

[Kelly]

TO PASCO MOM: Why is it that the school needs to push your daughter harder? Why don't you? When they sent the book on tape home because, as you put it, she was too lazy to read the book; you should have made her read the book. Not allowed her to listen to the book. The REAL problem we have is that not enough parents are pushing their kids at home. They aren’t showing their kids that school is important and that they need to respect adults. When their kids get in trouble, they act like their friend and blame everything on the school rather than have to take the time to actually parent their own child. When there are parents who are supportive we do not always have a teacher who is supportive and wanting to team up with the parent to help further the eager children. I think some of it is because they are so used to the parents who act like they don’t care or are just as lazy as their own kids that it is hard to be there for the parents that do care. The disruptive and lazy kids seem to take over the class and the kids who seem to do just fine without the teacher, lose the valuable time.

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

Sorry Mary....top half percentile--meaning 50% and above? That's not very gifted. Now 90% and you go it.

[Taught AP and not teaching anymore]

The kids who want to excel are taking AP classes and Honors classes every chance they get. That used to be their safe haven. But now the policy of throwing kids who can't even read into AP classes to "challenge" them - which equates to padding the administrative bonuses that are given for high AP enrollment - is watering down the rigorous and exciting experience for the truly excellent students.

As a former teacher in a public school, I have some simple advice. Send your child to a private school. If you have to take a second job, to pay for it, then do it. It is worth it. The public school system is complete garbage and does not adequately serve the high-performing student.

[Mark]

As a current Hillsborough teacher, I agree with Taught AP... The number of average students being thrown into honors and AP classes is ridiculous, especially now that a large part of the school grade is determined by AP participation. Students who simply don't belong (for example, several students who didn't pass the FCAT Reading were still enrolled in AP English for Junior year) are seriously hindering AP and honors classes and the problem is only getting worse.

[pascochildsmom]

TO KELLY, I did and do push my child and according to her school I'm too hard on her, The book was read at school not home, and I was not told this was happening until it was too late. Now I struggle everyday to get this child to read because she feels she can just listen to the tape version. My child does not watch TV on week nights and has NEVER missed a day of school. I am at the school monthly and actively seeking a new school to help ME give her the push she needs. Instead of the poor thing she just can't do it, which is what I've gotten the past year from OUR Pasco school. And if and when my child gets in trouble I can tell you that I am the hardest on her. As I said before if she is only on a 1st grade level then but her pack in 1st grade, but I was told that can't be done... other than home school her at this point there is nothing I can do to prevent what is happening when she is at school. I am NOT a lazy parent, my other child has already skipped a grade, but every child is different!

Oh, who cares - after all Florida's #1 Growth industry is PRISONS!!!

With state universities cutting enrollment and, additionally, increasing the acceptance of out-of-state students and denying in-state students they have no future anyway!

Thank you state legislature's Republicans!!!

Remember in November!

[split em up]

Maybe we need to leave all the average kids in their school. Move the stupid kids to a single magnet school geared toward vo-tech stuff, to help them find careers and the smart kids in another magnet school to develop their oversized brains. And who gives a rat's patootie about their self esteem. That's why these kids treat all adults like trash. They have been told their whole lives how wonderful and special they are.

Other than that I like the Japan cooperative education model.

[john]

There are programs in place for gifted kids. A high schooler can graduate with his AA at the same time he receives his high school diploma if he takes advantage of dual credit or the Collegiate High School.

[Read it Again]

Fed Up Reading Teacher: I believe you are the one in error. "Top half percentile" means top 0.5%, meaning greater than 99.5%. The top 50% would be either the "top half" or the "top 50 percentile." So Mary's child is, indeed, highly gifted.

Fed up reading teacher - I think Mary meant the top 1/2% as in above 99.5%. That's Gifted.

[Mo]

To PascoMom, my kids attend pinellas county public school. ALL schools are NOT created equal. My son began to exhibit signs of ADHD in K. Finally determined it was the problem in the 1st grade. By the time we found a medication that helped him focus it was too late in the year and he was kept back. The children doing well are rewarded at the school and the children not doing well are counseled and encouraged. Higher performers are teamed with lower performers in groups several times a week. The smarter children enjoy helping those who are struggling. My son soon moved from struggling to helping others. Research the schools!!! I can not stress this enough. Just a visit to a school will can open your eyes to how they teach the children.
I don't know many places now still playing the "let's not hurt them by keeping them back" game, there are too many children repeating grades just for FCAT scores.

[Education...Different than Prestige]

To Drive Through Master's Degree:

You are mistaken about Nova Southeastern being a "low quality school." It may be perceived as being lower in prestige, but this perception is wrong. It's like comparing a Jaguar to a Camry...yes, the Jaguar has more "prestige," but why spend the extra money on something that fulfills the same purpose?

Besides, any person earning his or her Master's degree should be commended...not ridiculed by pompous people like you.

I agree with those who are saying that the average students are the ones who are being left behind, which is indicative to our economy. The middle class is waning, and the gap between the rich and poor is increasing. The middle class are the ones who suffer, just as the "average" B and C students (and even the one's with A minuses) are the ones who suffer.

[Drive Through Master's Degree]

Uh, "Education...Different than Prestige," you are probably the only one that thinks this. Nova pumps out, on average, 450 doctorates per year in education. They are ridiculed by academics at "real" universities such as USF, UCF, FSU, and so forth. You will not find a single professor at said schools who have their doctorates from NOVA. Moreover, NOVA was recently chastised in the Cleveland Plain Dealer for their low academic quality. Furthermore, the statistics are staggering: poor teachers with these low quality degrees are getting paid more to damage the educational achievement of their students, while receiving the higher status that a graduate degree affords.

BTW, I have 2 master's degrees and a doctorate, and I am absolutely sick and tired of these morons who earn their degree from NOVA or Walden or Capella or whatever, and then expect that their crappy degree is anywhere near the rigor and the quality of my degrees earned from Research 1 level institutions!

So, yes, I am pompous. I earned it.

[Pascochildsmom]

MO... Thank you, we came from Pinellas and had no issues there. My biggest regret is changing my child’s school. Due to being labeled with an undiagnosed learning disability my child is able to be promoted regardless of her FCAT scores. She was actually told she didn’t need to pass them, but to try her best. They will keep doing this, we’ve had her test and she has seen a physiatrist to see if there is something wrong. The all come up with the same conclusion. She’s lazy, she has learned that if she cries she gets out of her work, and gets babied. I’m currently looking into private schools however due to her low testing find one to accept her is a challenge.

[Franzl]

re: Drive Through Master's Degree"

..."real" universities such as USF, UCF, FSU,...

You call those "real" universities? Smirk, how about The University of Chicago, Harvard, Yale, Oxford, University of Vienna and a handful of others.

You really have no real reason acting pompous!

[jsaarikko]

Private Education = cures everything!!

With all the shortfalls in education funding why not privatize all of it. Have people buy insurance policies to educate their kids from K to PhD. The insurance company would set the threshold for issuing the policy. Let’s say a minimum of 100 IQ. If you don’t qualify you don’t get educated. If you can’t afford it or you don’t qualify – you don’t get educated. That’s Dawin’s theory of survival of the fittest. So what if somebody does not get educated. At least they won’t die. There is nothing in the US Constitution that says education is a right and a government responsibility. Everyone for himself; capitalism at its best.
How would this differ from our current healthcare “system”?
Any takers?

[dan]

To: Drive Through Master's Degree.

Actually it was USF, 1999, MA, Political Science. I just don't have the time to waste proofreading a blog. I'm too busy working, just wanted to throw out some thoughts that might be helpful. Enjoy your bitterness.

[dan]

To: Drive Through Master's Degree
Thesis topic: Cultural Differences in US-Japanese Trade policy. I finished in May, before I moved to DC for work. Enjoy your bitterness.

[dan]

To: Drive Through Master's Degree
You may have earned your degrees, however you didn't pick up any civility. That counts too.

[sl]

No Child Left Behind = a country that is satisfied with mediocrity. It does not matter where your child falls in the percentiles, if the country, state, school,teachers or families are satisfied with mediocrity then that is what you get.

Every child is capable of great things no matter what their percentiles. You must EXPECT it, you must DEMAND it. America's children are depending on the parents and teachers for a future of greatness. And yes, it is never ending hard work for parents and teachers. I know, I am both.

[BRian]

Drive Through Master's Degree is 100% correct. I'm a former educator and have seen this first hand. I busted my butt for two years earning an MA in political science from Ohio State (granted, it was one of the top poli sci grad programs in the country). Yet someone with a "Ph.D." from Nova, most of which was based on "life experience" (i.e., didn't have to do anything) is promoted over me.

This is a HUGE problem in education right now - you have a lot of former professionals who take a pay cut to make a difference as educators - and then they're subjected to the mismanagement of folks with no practical experience, just a worthless piece of paper hanging from their wall.

Education degrees in general are a waste (I've taken numerous grad classes in education at both Ohio State and USF). You can imagine how valuable an education degree from a barely accredited institution is.

[Tina]

Trust me - I am scraping it together for private school. The quality of the public schools in FL is frightening. And it's as though they let any child who shows up just graduate. It's insane!

[Tina]

I also think the quality of these "colleges" have a lot to do with the fact that many are "for profit". You pretty much purchase your degree. I have little respect for those degrees as many are just degree mills and the work done for them is substandard. In all honesty, I feel bad for the people that have been suckered into those programs and think they actually got something worthwhile.

[Tina]

(by these "colleges", I am referring to the likes of Nova, Capella, etc.)

[Ron]

The problem is that most teachers don't recognize what it takes for a child to excel in the area that best suits him. Not every student, with a high IQ needs to or should go into college to excel as a productive member of society, or to excel in life. Some of our best and brightest students could turn out to be great mechanics, and may even revolutionize an industry. Not with their book smarts, but with their own mechanical aptitude. People put way too much emphasis on a child grades, rather than looking for the program that best utilizes that particular child's best qualities. I was a poor bored student, with a high IQ, in the Pinellas school system. I just barely made it out of high school. I also went on to invent a few items and retired early as a millionaire. I never even set foot in a college, or a trade school, and academically, I certainly did not meet anyone's expectation in HS. Had a teacher recognized what I did possess, they would not have wasted as much time trying to shape me into their mold of what a student should be. Some students will shine in a more mechanical or artistic environment and should be encouraged to move in that direction. Parents and teachers all seem to want college for every student. Look past that and do what is right for the individual child.

[Kenneth]

Ron - there are plenty of teachers that realize this, but there's very much an administrative attitude that it's college or nothing. As time goes on, educators are losing their independence and are becoming the tools of administrative agendas - which usually fall down from flawed theories produced by scholars with little teaching experience.

[Mary]

To Fed Up Reading Teacher: top half percentile means 95.5%.

[Frustrated optimist]

I am an educator. I don't complain about my salary, as I knew what I'd be making before I went into the profession, and I don't complain (much) about the paperwork that goes along with my job. I agree that all children need to be educated- we as a society have to shift what we see as education. Dan, I completely agree with you about vocational education. It is essential to have people in society that know those skills. I've said many times that I can teach a student with a learning disabililty, but PLEASE don't make me try to fix anything under the hood of my car! We all need each other. Unfortunately, our current legislature does not allow all students in high school that would qualify to go to vocational schools (which we do have in Pasco) to learn those specialized skills until the FCAT is passed. The student who would learn most from a vocational school may not be the "type" of student that would preform well on the FCAT. I'd bet that if that same student were interested in mechanics and we put a manual in front of him or her that he or she would read and comprehend! Isn't that what we (parents, children, teachers, society) really want? People to be able to comprehend and become a productive member of society?
Lastly, before I get off my soapbox... To all the teachers who encouraged others to send their students to private school or “bashed” our current system... As I stated earlier, I am a teacher. I am highly offended, not that you are bashing our school system, but your colleagues. Sure there are “bad” teachers- you could take the “teachers” out of that phrase and replace it with any profession. Are the vast majority hardworking and dedicated to the children of our society? Yes. Do they take work home because they want to improve on their teaching methods? Yes. Do they wake up in the middle of the night wondering if that certain student got to eat dinner or if the child protective investigator went to the house because an abuse call was called in? Yes. I agree that changes need to be made, but are you helping? Does jumping ship instead of being part of a solution make you feel better about this pervasive issue?

[Mary]

To sl: I agree. Unless there is a true medical/mental condition, children will live up to or down to your expectations. My child's father and I expect certain academic and behavioral levels and our child meets or exceeds those expectations. It isn't easy, it's work. It's also my job as a parent. But it's also the school's job to educate my child to the highest degree. Not to dumb down. But dumbing down is what administrators want. Most teachers, if you ask them, are vehemently against it. They would like to hold all kids to a higher standard. They simply aren't allowed. Very sad, indeed.

[Drive Through Master's Degree]

Kenneth,

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you? Somebody shared some big words with you, and now you are sharing them with us. Lucky us, huh?

I cannot stand it when the general public blames the current state of American education on this so-called formless and shapeless monster known as theory!

For you growth and edification, I will assure you that administration agendas are not based on, "flawed theories produced by scholars with little teaching experience"; rather, they are based on educational policy and politics.

And, by the way, there are numerous "theories" that do an excellent job of predicting just how educational policy operated to produce our current state of education in the US.

You can start with Luke for power structures; Marx for reifying the existing substructure via the superstructure; and Weber on political and social status.

So, please stop blaming theories, and start blaming the correct party - the policymakers.

[Ron]

I wonder what policy or theory they were using when I attended the Pinellas schools, from elementary to HS? I am the Ron from the above post. I had to attend Summer school EVERY year that I was in HS. Why, because I NEVER did any homework. Apparently my teachers, at that time, felt that if I didn't do any homework than I must not be learning anything. Never mind the fact that I NEVER failed any test, or exam, but because of my lack of doing what I viewed as "busy work", I was still flunked. I felt that homework was great for students that needed the practice. My test scores showed that I didn't need the "practice" that homework would provide. I came to hate school, especially since I was almost going year round. It soured me on ever continuing with any organized schooling after HS. I can still pick up any well written book and learn what I needed to accomplish the mission ahead of me. It was not that I didn't learn anything in school, it was just that the teachers never recognized what I did learn. My test scores apparently did not give them a hint.

[Kenneth]

Drive Through Master's Degree,

Wow, that's what I get for defending you. I guess you are an elitist prik. My apologies to everyone else on this topic who discovered it sooner.

I'm well aware of the role of theory in motivating practice - I do not need to be lectured on the subject by you. The problem is the ever present gap between theory and practical application. I could develop a ton of game theoretical models to explain behavior in education, though few without training in econometrics would understand them - and even worse, none would lead to even incremental improvements in anything.

The problem with theory in education is that it's principal application changes every year or so - if you ever actually taught in a public school (I've taught both higher ed and secondary) you would know that each year administrators role out a new flavor of the month, theory driven curriculum - and each year it gets tossed by the wayside in favor of what's new the next year.

Just a simple pass at some of the ones I remember - collaborative teaching, year round schooling, starting school earlier, starting school later, small classes, larger lecture style classes (with sub sections), student led learning, student designed curriculum, more technology in the classroom, less technology in the classroom, etc. etc.

The problem with folks in education departments at the higher ed level is that they love to hammer out other people's ideas. John Dewey is a freakin' god in most education departments - never mind his socialist perspectives fail in light of market driven public education in this country.

Nice use of big words, though (ironic since isn't that what you accused me of?) Good post D-bag - now go back to being a waste of government tax dollars.

[dan]

To: Drive Through Master's Degree
You are exactly why I didn't waste my time on a Ph'D. Its much more fun to actually do something (architecture, politics, IR, business) than theorizing. Enjoy the bitterness.

[Timmy!]

Kenneth

It made my day to see Dewey described so accurately.

I, too remember the "flavors" you describe. My first real life experience with them was being one year ahead of "new math" in the 60's. (At least they were thoughtful enough to work from 1st grade up to 12th.) I noticed the convoluted and unnatural practice problems that my younger brother and sister went through. I could get the right answer but couldn't follow the necessary pattern required by the curriculum - therefore: it was wrong.

They floundered in Algebra, I rocked.

Now, do you think a lot of the "new flavors" are concocted to change the vocabulary and "concepts" in order to keep Joe and Jill Public from understanding just what's happening?

[Randy]

My principal's degree came from Nova. You should see the e-mails she sends out. They are atrocious abuses of the English language. There are gross spelling errors, no subject-verb agreement, improper syntax and punctuation, and words used out of context. Her speech patterns are as bad or worse. The kids even laugh.

[jwt]

To Drive Through..
and Kenneth

Thanks for the "flavor of the month " remark--it's SO true! Now the flavor is "springboard" in Hillsborough. Teachers are very worried--our Superintendent is making decisions without valid input. This program/curriculum is written by colleg board and aimed at making more kids "college ready". Problem is-- most kids who wil go to college know it and take classes and work with that in mind. Kids who are not college- bound ---whether due to academics or inclination--- do not get training in any vocation because someone, sometime decided that every kid was going to college!!! I teach--advanced degree and twenty years---I pay plumbers, mechanics and eletrician more than my "hourly" pay! However--this "track" is not encouraged or taught....and it comes from the top.

Pasco Mom--Hang in there--keep doing what you are doing--your child has a lot more than many-- a parent that cares. Good luck to you!

[Drive Through Master's Degree]

“Just a simple pass at some of the ones I remember - collaborative teaching, year round schooling, starting school earlier, starting school later, small classes, larger lecture style classes (with sub sections), student led learning, student designed curriculum, more technology in the classroom, less technology in the classroom, etc. etc”

Kenneth,

Every one of those items in your list above is a policy decision and not theory. Sure, they have theory “paint jobs,” but just below the substrate, they are nothing more than a false consciousness delivered to us via the capitalist marketing machine that is supported by the bourgeoisie stakeholders. Whatever theory is there, it is nothing more than a mere sales pitch. No substance!

I have no problem with your diagnoses, and I have no quarrels with your opinion of me, but I do have a problem when you blame school failure(s) on “theory” when, in fact, they are clearly the result of the policymakers’ whims and their minions, the school administration.

Policy; policy; policy!

And Dan, I’m quite stunned that you allow me to jump on your last nerve. By commenting on my rants, you give my language power. Do nothing, say nothing, and I cannot exist. A liberal interpretation of Foucault, I admit, but valid, nonetheless. It’s a good read; you might like it.

A thesis-track master’s from USF is very impressive; USF is not a chump school. You are more than likely quite an intelligent man.

[Vince]

Well....after reading everyone's post, I would like to comment. I am a teacher at what some would call a gifted school, an IB school. Somebody said to send their gifted kids to private schools. I disagree! Send them to the IB programs. We currently have 6 IB schools (3 high, 1 middle, and 2 elementary) and the county will be adding more in the coming years due to demand. In the elementary level, they also have gifted academies. I believe there are 4 of them.

Granted, these programs are not for everyone, but the gifted, highly talented and the advance students do excel in them. The county does add students that shouldn't be at these schools, but generally, they are tracked into the same classes, so for example, a teacher has one regular class, and the rest of their classes would be gifted or advance. The regular class contains these students

There are also programs for students not planning to go to college that are under utilized. Why? Because so many push the students to get a college prep high school diploma even though they have no chance in getting into a college. That needs to change! By doing this, maybe the high schools would get better and all our children would benefit, not just the college bound ones, but the non college bound would as well!

Just a thought!

[parchment&techskills]

In this economy as many of you have experienced, it is wise to have both a degree and a vocational skill, just in case.

Remember that it isn't the lower skills that get pink slipped....management has been victim as well.

In my family, two brothers had SUNY degrees, one in engineering and one in med tech. Both got pink slipped in the 80's. Both started A/C businesses and now thriving.

Piece of paper does not protect you from corporate America's pink slip.
Kids need to be taught to be versatile.

Fast forward to 2008. Both have sons.
One becoming mechanical engineer while simultaneously getting A/C contractor's license. Other one's son has bio engineering degree and applying to med school, but also been trained in A/C contracting.

Another son is working way up to retail/corporate ladder from bottom up, and is now in management and was told that unless he gets a "degree" he can not meet his goal of D.Supervisor no matter how good he is.

Students need to be tracked early to make sure they get trained in something , either college prep or vocational. But the educrats will have you think that tracking is bad and hurts self esteem.

There's nothing worse than having a student with no direction drop out who has a brain and could have used it.

[Mary]

Vince, are you in Hillsborough? Pinellas only has one gifted elementary and they put it in the middle of the worst, most dangerous neighborhood. The local kids who go there are largely junior thugs and they are mixed in with the gifted kids. I know two people who pulled their gifted children out because of the horrible atmosphere the nongifted kids, and neighborhood, caused. If they would create a gifted only elementary, I would definitely consider it.

The question "Can schools be excellent and equitable at the same time?" The answer is "yes" but only when it is decided that "equal" is when every student gets what he/she needs to meet their potential.

The parent who is thrilled with program where the high ability students help the lower students should ask herself if that high ability student could be extending his/her own learning in that time.

Too many times the high ability student becomes the teacher's assistant at the cost of the student's continued growth.

And, yes, most school districts offer some kind of gifted program, but not all eligible students make it to the program. The schools without the programs are relunctant to let them go, because with them go their FCAT scores. So, it is not uncommon that they don't even test the high ability students at the elementary level unless it is requested by parents.

The idea that access to gifted classes is connected to income is a myth, and ideas like these continue to promote that "elitist" connotation.

Yes, high ability students are being left behind because of the mandates that are forced on our administrators and educators. There is a reason we are 17th in the world in math and science. We need to encourage our brightest to enter these fields, and we need to prepare them with rigorous curriculum and high expectations.

Yes, all children are special and have gifts, but not all students are academically gifted. Equal is giving every student what they need to be their best and meet their fullest potential.

[D]

Recognition of needs is only part of the equation. There is no federal mandate for gifted ed and the legal framework far weaker than other ESE classifications. Gifted ed is a stae decision and some states choose to do nothing.
The mere presence of a program is not a panacea. The study shows the gifted
students are not making adequate gains.
The curriculum is not accurately matched, perhaps as depicted in A Nation Deceived: How America's Schools Hold Back America's Best Students. Combine these reports and you have a tavesty on our nation's best students and it has been allowed to languish out of indifference and parental ignorance.

[PTA Mom]

Mary - Have you ever been to Ridgecrest and seen these "thugs"? ALL schools have students who are "troublemakers", no matter what location. There are of "rich white troublemaking students" throughout the county. Or are you just assuming that because they are "black kids" that they are troublemakers? Nice things that I hope your children don't learn from you.

So because they may be poor, or their parents make less money than other families, they are thugs? Nice way to label everyone based on income/skin color.

We wanted Ridgecrest before even having our daughter tested for the gifted program (we were living in the area at the time). Now we are in St. Pete and I drive her daily, through the neighborhood. She attends the gifted classes and is doing great. We love Ridgecrest. The teachers and staff are great.