Can they force you to wear a uniform?

The automated call comes while you're preparing dinner. It's a recording of your Hillsborough elementary school principal, informing you that the school's parents have voted to have students wear uniforms in the new academic year.

They're mandatory.

Stop by the school to see what they look like. Hope your kids look good in khakis and collared shirts (which cost $12 at a small private provider about 15 miles away).

What's not said is that the conforming clothing really is not mandatory at all.

The Hillsborough district has few hard and fast rules when it comes to uniforms. One it does insist upon is that any school that wants to require certain styles must also offer parents a way to opt out. That's in following with the federal government's recommendations.

You won't read that in the student handbook, though. Why not? Partly because of the sneaking suspicion some officials have that if everyone knew, uniforms wouldn't get worn so often.

So in the knowledge that not everyone likes to dress the same, despite what the schools want you to do, we just thought we'd share. Not sure if your school wants you to wear a uniform? Here's where the Hillsborough district keeps its list.

For more the school uniform debate, visit the Education Commission of the States or the ACLU sites on the issue.

Comments

[diane]

How interesting, especially when some schools in another county give out demerits or negative consequences for not wearing a uniform.

[AQ]

diane: What schools are those?

[Christine]

Cute photo!
Azalea Elem. circa 1996?

[me]

I wish they all wore uniforms.

This is a great article(sarcasm). Now parents who want to be rebels without a real cause can put their children in an uncomfortable place of being in a uniform school and being the only one NOT in a uniform. I respect the right to choose, but if you do not like it change schools - that rule would work either way -- those who want uniforms but are in a school with no rule, or those who do not and are in a uniform school.

[Rick]

Here comes the St. Pete Times gunning for schools again. Honestly, is there nothing better to do or report? One of the best newspapers in America is becoming another FoxNews style yellow paper. Shame, shame...

[What Countries Are Notorious For School Uniforms?]

Think about it.

[BBMOM]

Uniforms are great. And you can get them for a lot less at Wal-Mart, Bealles or Bealls Outlet, etc. You'll save a lot of money on clothes. Our old Elementary, Blanton, had mandatory uniforms and a large population of low income families. The kids get use to them so it's not really an issue. By the 5th grade they're ready to wear their own clothes. It really seems to help with the behavior problems. If you don't like it go to another non-uniform school. By the way Blanton has been an "A" school the last two years. Go to school to learn, not to impress or compete. Teach Respect, Responsibility, Motivation and Honesty. Now that my kids are in Middle school a pair of jeans and a shirt are just fine. It teaches them they don't have to have the most expensive designer clothes to be successful.

[patcon]

What Countries,

When I think about school uniforms, I think of Japanese schools, British prep schools, American parochial schools. These are often held up as paragons of education where the uniform is intended to foster a sense of community and a focus on education not fashion. Yes, I could also think of Nazi Germany, Communist China, and other oppressive societies where the uniform is intended to promote a sense of community which gets perverted into mindless subservience to authority.

You use the word "notorious" implying something bad about school uniforms. Clearly you are focusing on the evil side of school uniforms. Can you not also see the benefits?

[teacher]

I was never for uniforms until I became a teacher and noticed the difference in behavior and focus on the days when the students didn't wear their uniforms. As adults we 'dress for success', why not the children.

And, the US Military use uniforms with pride, it's not a bad thing unless you turn it into a bad thing.

[patcon]

Parents of trouble-makers should love uniforms. It gives them another excuse for sweet little Johnny. "How can you be sure it was Johnny when everybody looks the same?"
[The preceding was a (probably lame) attempt at injecting a bit of humor into the discussion.]

[Patcon- it about choice -not the Uniform]

There are usually unintended consequences to social mandates.

Parents who choose to send their kids to American parochial schools make that choice, knowing that uniforms come with the plan.

It is interesting that the point made that uniforms "promote a sense of community and a focus on education not fashion" is lost on other behaviors that "promote a sense of community" such as religious symbols or gang colors.

Trying to make the point that fashion interferes with education could certainly be debated by "non fashionable" scholars sometimes known as "geeks".

The argument about uniforms goes far and above the issue of the garment. The mere fact that uniforms are promoted as "government (public school authority) exertion of social control" should be a concern to all.

[publicschoolteacher]

-not the Uniform wrote:
"Trying to make the point that fashion interferes with education could certainly be debated by "non fashionable" scholars sometimes known as "geeks"."

This is exactly how fashion can interfere with education. Kids stratify themselves into the social elite down to the "geeks" primarily based on attire. When you take away the pressure of needing the right labels to be accepted by their peers, many students are free to excel academically.

When we see a police officer in uniform, we see an authority figure. We do not see whether that person is a jock, a geek, a goth, a prep, etc. I think that uniforms may help to set the tone that "we are here to do a job" that will continue with kids when they enter the real world.

In Pasco, however, our Superintendent focuses more on the teachers' dress code rather than enforcing the students'. =(

[Prejudice thinking needs enlightenment]

"Non-fashionable scholars" would mean that their scholarship is unimpeded by their fashion. The implication was that they don't care about fashion.

Perhaps those who have a problem with fashion are dealing with other issues.

Maybe publicshcoolteacher can irradicate discrimination, racisim and bigotry by making sure everyone looks the same instead of teaching understanding of all.

[It is about choice in a public place]

The point has to do with choice as a member of the public.

Military members in uniform is not the same as students going to a public school.

Public school "Uniform promoting adults" are hypocritical when they pass judgment on those public school children "out of uniform".

Dress codes provide a continuum of acceptable attire, even in public places.

To mandate within a public setting what one specifically wears and that it must match everyone else speaks to the inadequacy of those who think the only way they can pursue life, liberty and happiness is by controlling others.

This mindset would be analogous to one moving into an already controlled Home Owners Association.

Then, wait until "uniform promoting adults" within a "public" setting are told specifically what to wear "in public".

Wait until "uniform promoting adults" within a "public setting" are told what specifically what kind of car to drive, and what color it should be.

I can hear it now at the local meeting place of choice of the "choice of uniform" decision makers (could it be Wal-mart, the mall, Starbucks, McDonalds?????): "I am so glad we all have to drive cream colored, four door sedans because that Ms. Latesthairdo thnks she is something in that (pick your vehecile of disdain here). Every time I see her on the road I get so upset I can't even concentrate on driving."

Blaming education woes on what someone else wears is irresponsible just as blaming one's ability to concentrate of driving is effected by what someone else drives.

How the other driver behaves with their car can certainly effect other's behavior, just as one student's behavior can effect the other students. But to hold the type of car or type of clothes as the responsible agent is wrong minded.

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

Hey It's about choice.... you can also spit on the sidewalks, hold up your middle finger, curse loudly, wear shorts that come 1 cm below your lower buttocks, play loud music, talk on your cell phone, make rude comments, etc. in public places. Should those things be allowed in public schools since they are "public places"? (Ignore the fact these things happen everyday in schools...but they aren't allowed). As a teacher, I can tell you that uniforms do bring a sense of discipline to the schools....especially for lower grades. I don't think they should be required in high schools... but really how much individuality does an 11 year need to express?

With all the things that are happening to education...this should be the least of our concerns.

[Proving My Point]

It is amazing how behavioral issues are addressed in such bizarre measures.

To Fed Up: I will assume you are being sarcastic when you say: "Should those things be allowed in public schools since they are "public places"?". I don't believe anyone is advocating for inappropriate behavior. Please note that I did refer to "dress codes".

Why do different schools have different colors of uniforms? Shouldn't they all be the same, no matter what public school one goes to?

Why not have "uniform referral slips"? Use these as a behavior modifier. When a student breaks a rule, he has to then wear a uniform. Sort of like adults get to wear when they go to jail.

I wonder if you speak as a representative of the public school system. Everyone reading this should be very concerned that anyone, especially someone who claims to be an educator, would make this statement: "... but really how much individuality does an 11 year need to express?"

I imagine all of the dittos done by your students had better look exactly the same, or you didn't do your job.

Thank You "proving my point" - that is where the students individuality should be present - in their work. We as teachers work hard to differentiate instruction to allow for that.
I work at a school with uniforms, but once in a while we have a spirit day to allow students to wear their "street clothes". I cannot explain it, but there definately is a difference in behavior on those days... maybe excitement because of the change??? My children attended a different school that also had uniforms. I think they build school community. Most of the elementary kids I have talked with (and yes, I do ask each year) don't seem to mind or care too much either way. Of course they have an opinion, but their focus is on other issues. And I do agree with the person who said there is so much more we need to be concerned with in education right now!

How about the budget cuts? Voters asked for smaller class sizes and they are not getting them. My class for this upcoming year is already over the limit, and that doesn't include those who will trickle in in the first few weeks.

[What Uniform Does This Teacher Wear?]

The following comment was made earlier.

The 'teacher' says that the adults "dress for success".

What type of uniform does this teacher wear?
*******

"I was never for uniforms until I became a teacher and noticed the difference in behavior and focus on the days when the students didn't wear their uniforms. As adults we 'dress for success', why not the children.

And, the US Military use uniforms with pride, it's not a bad thing unless you turn it into a bad thing.

Posted by: teacher | July 18, 2008 at 08:51 AM

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

TO: PROVING MY POINT

As for an 11 year old expressing their individuality... what should an 11 year old wear? Because as I walk past stores that are aimed at 11 year olds, such as Limited Too or Justice, there are very things that an 11 year old should be wearing. Try it sometime. You will find tank tops that are tight, cut low, shorts that are embarrassingly short, bikinis that reveal more than a Victoria's Secret ad... and the list goes on. Go into JcPenney sometime and pass their undergarments for 11 year old girls while you're at it. Inappropriate. And before you think I'm some weirdo looking at little girls' clothes, I have a child myself that I must shop for. And don't get me started on what these kids wear to school....it's terrible. How much time do I need to spend each day making sure that YOUR 11 year old is following dress code? I have far more important things to do. And as far as uniforms, it will be the same mess. So, frankly, I could care less if kids wear uniforms or not.

However, do not sit on your high horse and pretend that all American children are entitled to express themselves via their clothes or their precious little self esteems will be damaged forever.
Countries that do wear uniforms are flying past us in terms of advancement. If uniforms are part of that, who knows? My guess it would be it would have something to do with parents who vote to save themselves $250 a year while their children's education is cut to nothing versus parents who actually believe education is important. I guess we should save uniforms for the kids to wear when they grow up and work as janitors in high-tech firms owned by the Indians and the Chinese.

The point: Florida's education system is in shambles and people are so concerned with whether their child will have to wear a uniform or not. Stop being distracted from the fact that your child will likely not have an Art or music class.

And as for dittos: HA! I don't have a copy budget for that this year, so you won't have to worry about that! Plus, my planning time has been shortened.... not staying after school for free you know (Sarcasm intended).

P.S. My students have consistently showed greater gains than any other students at my school in terms of real reading growth (sometimes 3-4 years in a single year). They also consistently make AYP and score in my district's top FCAT scores. And I work in an 80% free-lunch school. So, before you go talking to yourself saying I'm this horrible teacher who is the root of all the problems in the school system, think about that for a moment. I accomplish the goal your tax dollars pay for: educating your children, despite decreased funding, hotter classrooms, fewer books, no pay raise (despite my proven success--as you Jebbers like to shout about)--and poorer and poorer behaved students each year.

[publicschoolteacher]

Teachers may not have to wear a standardized uniform (and I wouldn't mind if we did), but we are held to a pretty strict dress code. No jeans, no shorts, no capri pants, skirts of appropriate length, nothing low cut, no flip flops or any type of shoe resembling them, no visible tattoos or piercings other than ears. In other words, professional attire, as it should be. I would be elated if they said all teachers had to wear khakis and a polo shirt. It would save me tons of $ from having to buy a work wardrobe.

I just want to know a few things: Why are teachers the only ones being held to a strict dress code, and the kids are all getting off with warnings? And why are parents buying and sending their kids to school in clothes that they know to be against school dress code? If you walked in and saw your child's teacher dressed in anything less that professional attire, you'd be appalled, but it's ok for your kids to "express themselves."

[Sorting out the issues -1]

1a: "The automated call comes while you're preparing dinner. It's a recording of your Hillsborough elementary school principal, informing you that the school's parents have voted to have students wear uniforms in the new academic year.

They're mandatory.:

1b: "What's not said is that the conforming clothing really is not mandatory at all."

1c:"You won't read that in the student handbook, though. Why not? Partly because of the sneaking suspicion some officials have that if everyone knew, uniforms wouldn't get worn so often."

Any dispute on these points?

[Sorting Out The Issues - 2]

Uniforms -public vs. non-public:

1a:"When I think about school uniforms, I think of Japanese schools, British prep schools, American parochial schools. "

1b:"Yes, I could also think of Nazi Germany, Communist China, and other oppressive societies .."

1c:"And, the US Military use uniforms with pride, it's not a bad thing unless you turn it into a bad thing."

Are any of these public institutions?

[Sorting Out The Issues - 3]

Where in any of these comments has anyone advocated for, made excuses for or indicated in any manner that inappropriate behavior or innappropriate dress should be tolerated?

[Sorting Out The Issues - 4]

Are Public School Uniforms a behavior modifier or manipulation of the environment to ensure that they learn "Respect, Responsibility, Motivation and Honesty" or "success" or so students can "feel free to excel academically"?

Or, are Public School Uniforms for financing or administrative convenience?

..."Uniforms are great...You'll save a lot of money on clothes."

''''" I would be elated if they said all teachers had to wear khakis and a polo shirt. It would save me tons of $ from having to buy a work wardrobe."...

..."Most of the elementary kids I have talked with (and yes, I do ask each year) don't seem to mind or care too much either way. Of course they have an opinion, but their focus is on other issues.".....

[Sorting Out The Issues - 5]

How does public school uniforms address the issue of the disparity between a District's enforcement of the employee dress code and lack of enforcement of the student dress code?

[BBMOM]

Sorting out issues-4.

Do I feel that uniforms are a behavior modifier to ensure the kids learn Respect, Responsibility, Motivation and Honesty.

ABSOLUTELY. I've been there and have seen it. I went to public school in Pinellas a long time ago and we did not wear uniforms. The children at our elementary now, wearing uniforms, show much more respect then the kids I went to school with. My children are taught this at home because I am an involved parent. But these principles which I believe in at an early age are reinforced at a school that wears uniforms.

As far as a financial savings. Let's see - would I rather spend 40.00 on a pair of jeans or 40.00 on 4 uniform shirts? It's a no brainer. And as I said before, it carries over when they leave Elementary. They know they were successful in Elementary wearing uniforms. That there was not a big issue in competition for the most expensively dressed, and it carries over in Middle school. They like some of the fashionable clothes but it just doesn't seem as important to them as some of the other kids. They enjoy the freedom of picking out their own clothes, but they have learned the correct things in their younger years. Go to school behave yourself, respect other people and yourself, and get the best education that you can.

[Sounds Like It is Rally Time]

Trying to move the discussion from "public school uniforms" to "free choice" proved to be a daunting task.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

So, here is the rally cry.

Boys and girls will have no choice about what they will wear. They will abstain from wearing any clothes other than what is mandated by the system.
The system will not provide protection from the wearing of any clothing other than what is mandated by the system.

We will encourage religious entities to add "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's clothes", although any representation of that new covenant, (along with the others already established that addressed "Respect, Responsibility, Motivation and Honesty") can not be displayed in the public buildings.

Along with this call to action, we will start a campaign to eventually have uniforms for every parent to ensure that their children learn Respect, Responsibility, Motivation and Honesty.

Without Uniforms, We Are Lost.

[Just Making Sure]

Hey "Sounds Like It is Rally Time ":

Just so I get the picture, are you saying that our public schools that promote the teaching of alternative life styles, provides information on sexual activity and promotes and sometimes provides birth control and STD protections freely and openly with the student but does not involve the parent is now going to limit one's choice of clothing?

Did I hear that right?

[Are you serious?]

Just making sure:

What schools are you referring to? Certainly none in Florida. Florida is an abstinance state. That means schools don't provide information on sexual activity. Teaching about alternative lifestyles? How in the heck do you figure that? Schools don't have the time...we're too busy preparing our kids for FCAT. And provide birth control? ARE YOU SERIOUS? You obviously have NO clue what you are talking about and have just chosen to throw random things in hoping to inflame people. Educate yourself before you spout rhetoric that isn't true.

[Ooops -]

Ok, so I got carried away and generalized "public education" to include the nation. The Florida Healthy Teen Act passed the Senate - waiting on the House now.

In the mean time, we have these:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/yourtown/content/tcoast/epaper/2008/05/12/0512slcondoms.html

*******

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/15/Hillsborough/Gay_straight_group_fo.shtml

********

http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/news/record/2017.html

This link provides an intersting comment. I seem to get the impression that what is wrong with our public education is "the parents". However, when it comes to club participation, apparently the system doesn't need or want parental participation: " "In rejecting the proposal, the board made clear that students should not be penalized for a lack of involvement on the part of parents.""

And how much clearer could it be about education:"About GLSEN
GLSEN, or the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, is the leading national education organization ....."

[Ila]

How about we let the kids decide and any child that is better after uniforms is most likely a spoiled child I am very strict I run a tight schedule that includes a family supper that I prepared every night we all sit down together and talk about the day. I have 3 children and my favorite event is school shoping. I always have a budget and I love a good sale this is the best mommy child time youll ever get. uniforms are robbing my children and myself. If you can tell me you dont want to fight for your childs rights then Im not sure what you are for. Lets ask the kids and if diciple is needed make the parents take parenting classes. I think all pregnant mothers should take one. If moms and dads would enforce rules you wouldn't be complaining so much.