Pinellas considers fundamental school changes

Pinellas school officials are proposing a significant change in the make-up of the district's fundamental middle school system. Under a plan announced this afternoon, the district would close Southside Fundamental Middle School in St. Petersburg and Coachman Fundamental Middle School in Clearwater and move both programs to new schools.
 
Southside would move to Madeira Beach Middle School, and neighboring Madeira Beach Elementary would become a fundamental elementary school, forming the district's only K-8 campus. Coachman would move to Kennedy Middle School in Clearwater.
 
District officials said students at Kennedy and Madeira Beach would be given the opportunity to stay at their respective schools next year, providing they agreed to abide by fundamental school rules. The rest would be reassigned to other schools.
 
The moves are part of an overall plan to cut the budget and deal with declining enrollment. They also would substantially increase the number of fundamental middle school seats in the county, which are in demand. Officials said the district would save money by closing Southside and Coachman and filling up Madeira Beach and Kennedy.
 
Minutes ago, the School Board tenatively approved the ideas at a workshop. Board members plan to take a final vote Dec. 9.

Board members delayed a decision on the proposed closing of five elementary schools, saying they needed more information and time to study the issue. The board will meet to discuss the potential closings at a workshop Dec. 2.

NOTE
One fact that did not become clear until late this afternoon: This year's sixth and seventh graders at Southside would have the choice of attending the new fundamental program at Madeira Beach Middle or Thurgood Marshall Fundamental Middle next year.

- Thomas C. Tobin, Times Staff Writer

Comments

[Erin Clarke, a proud SFMS stallion]

This can't honestly be happening. When I found out that Southside might be closing, I honestly thought it was a joke. Were an A+ school and our FCAT scores are through the roof. Test scores don't lie. At Southside I’ve met tons of new friends that ill never forget and have been inspired by teachers that have kept me going through struggles. I’ve survived FCAT and got my first locker. Southside is a place where students can learn and become anything they imagine. We proudly show off our award winning band and chorus. I am a proud flautist in the symphonic band and couldn’t imagine playing in any other band. Some comments on here are very immature and defeat the point of this whole bog. We are not racist and don’t think we are any better than anyone else. We are the same as anyone else. But seriously-Why change an A+ school when their are schools struggling to make C’s? Why close a school with scarce behavior problems when there are other schools running wild? Come on school board!!! Wake up and smell the coffee!!!!! Think of how our lives, the lives of the students, faculty and parents, will be changed by this!!! SOUTHSIDE IS THE BEST SCHOOL EVER!!!!!!! DON’T MAKE US LEAVE OUR DREAMS, FRIENDS AND HOME!!!!!! THE FUTURE GENERATIONS OF SOUTHSIDE STALLIONS DEPENDS ON YOU!!!! DO NOT MESS THIS UP!!!!!! KEEP SOUTHISDE SOUTHSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Julia Scheiber]

Whenever I hear people ask me, "So, what school are you going to next year?", I look at them and say, "Southside, of course." I hate how people have just decided that there's no more Southside, as I am still hopeful.
I don't understand why Southside should be gotten rid of. We are an awesome school. I can't really imagine going to any other middle school.
I have made so many friends at this school, I would hate to see everybody go. Sure, we're all going to the same schools, but some of us aren't.
One of the reasons why I love being at Southside is the band. It's really a great experience. I'd never thought I'd even play an instrument until hearing the [award winning] band in fifth grade. I am in the Wind Ensemble and the Jazz Ensemble and I love it.
Please leave Southside open!

[Lorenzo Bright]

Please keep Southside open. Please consider the fact that we are an "A+" school, and we students are always on our best behavior.

Southside is such a great school!!! They shouldn't close it. Southside is well disciplined and if they merge the students with other school's students kids will be in more fights at the other schools. They can't just walk in one day and say we're gonna merge this fundamental program with a non fundamental programs. It's insanity! It's crazy!
It's stupid! Why pull out such a great school?!? They should pull out the dumpy school, not the terrific one.

Southside is such a great school!!! They shouldn't close it. Southside is well disciplined and if they merge the students with other school's students kids will be in more fights at the other schools. They can't just walk in one day and say we're gonna merge this fundamental program with a non fundamental programs. It's insanity! It's crazy!
It's stupid! Why pull out such a great school?!? They should pull out the dumpy school, not the terrific one.

It is a myth that SS doesn't have any behavioral issues. My neighbor showed me a letter sent home with the whole eighth grade class before thanksgiving talking about the enormous amount of behavior and discipline issues in the eighth grade as well as kids not doing homework. Within the past four years teachers keys have been stolen by students teachers have been threatened by students feces have been smeared on the walls of the boys restroom there was a fight between southside students after school on youtube. Kids brag about the number of detentions they get without getting expelled. Boys esp. view it as a status symbol. They have the same issues with this as any other school that services this age group. I don't see much difference between discipline problems at thsi school and Hopkins where my kids go.

[Tammy G. Carroll]

This was my email sent to all members of the Pinellas County School Borad...

Dear Superintendent,

I am still in disbelief about the possibility of the closure of Southside Fundamental Middle School (SFMS). How does this make any sense? Especially in these hard economic times. It is all about saving money, right? Well, SFMS is classified as a C-3 school. How is it so effective with much less funding than any other middle schools? SFMS has passionate educators making it the #1 middle school in the county, #17 in the state. And these educators are to be jobless for their selfless dedication. Children that are committed to their education by adhering to strict policies and guidelines. Showing the resulting effectiveness with the highest FCAT scores in the county. These children know no other way. Families that make daily sacrifices to assure that their children receive the best education. Juggling car pools, PTA, monthly meetings, homework with signatures, volunteering...shall I go on?

When I am asked what a fundamental school is. I like to answer, "it is basically like winning the educational lottery". These countywide schools are a positive part of our community, with a diverse population of students, devoted teachers, and parents that place their children's' education as their first priority. Closing such a school is a bad idea. And so is taking on it's supporters.

Sincerely,

Tammy G. Carroll, RDH, CVT
727-204-0679
tlc2823rdh@yahoo.com
7726 40th Terr. North
St. Petersburg, FL 33709

To the 6:56 post on Nov 29. I do not think I am missing the point. I am not looking at the school grade only. I am looking at the students individual test scores which are quite a bit higher than Maderias. I do not think the students, staff, or families at Maderia are a bunch of Juvenile Delinquents, I just know first hand that there is a difference when you walk the halls of each school. There is a difference in attitude, in respect, in behavior as a whole. My concern is that Thurgood calls itself a fundamental school yet I have been told by staff there that there are many behavioral issues and that in the Spring of last year many students were waiting for disciplin action. (whatever that means). As long as the students can behave and the parnets can enforce the fundamental expectations at home as well then there should be no problem. I am sure many of the students at Maderia would do very well in a program such as SS.

I am a fundamental parent o.k. with the SS program moving as long as all current students and staff as well as fifth grade fundamental students are guarenteed a spot. If there are open seats after current fundamental kids get in then that is great too. I think many people who have been "shut out" by the lottery should also have the same opportunity as long as they can provide their own transportation, sign daily agendas, attend every PTA meeting, attend all conferences, volunteer some time, and have behavioral expectations of their children then great. The problem is that if the SS program does not move intact that it will become a diluted fundamental program. It needs to remain strong and if in the process more students are given the opportunity to be a part of this and to have this high quality education then I am o.k. with that. I am just concerned that the school board may not move the entire fundamental program along with the students and staff and fundamental fifth graders that will soon be sixth graders. This would be just plain stupid....Test scores seem to be what everyone is talking about and looking at. Test scores seem to be the measurement of a good program (like it or not) and these test scores at SS are high. If the program does not stay together then these test scores may also get diluted to average.

[Julia]

Just a few thoughts on the recent posts. I am still on the fence on this.

While Madeira is a good enough school, its scores are not on par w/ SSFMS. MBMS scores average out around the mid to high 60s where SSFMS averages out around the mid 80s. As for behavior, I think people are worried for nothing.MBMS families would have to sign the contract and would be kicked out if they did not comply.I am sure there would be a learning curve,but manageable.

As for the cost to 11:50-it's simple. SSFMS is the only program in south cnty that is a top 25 school.It's scores outrank everyone by more than just a little.The district would save a little over a million which is nothing compared to other things like buses etc..Fundamental schools actually get much less funding per student than regular schools. We ask for very little actually.However, I agree there need to be more seats.It's wrong that some folks get shut out.It has happened to people in my family.Although even though my cousin complains about it, she has admitted to me she would not make it w/ all the involvement etc...

As for building quality,sadly we need a lot more new schools around here.Many are in bad shape.I don't see that happening anytime soon given the budget environment though.Tyrone Middle is in terrible shape too.

please tell me why the world is suppose to stop for these five or six hundred kids and a handful of teachers and administrators. what about all the kids currently shut out by the lottery. what about the rest of the kids and teachers in the county that can sure use the millions saved by the consolidation. these people are selfish and only thinking of themselves and not the greater good.

Y'all are missing the point that Madeira is an "A" school too. It's not like they're trying to merge Southside with the Remedial School for Juvenile Delinquency and Retards. Madeira kids and teachers should certainly be able to succeed in a fundamental setting; their school grade proves it.

I understand that SS is in an old building and that it is time to move. The school board would be crazy to not move the entire program intact to another location. If they knew this would eventually happen, then why did they not build a new building for SS? They built a new Tyrone that will open on Monday. I hate to say it but it honestly seems like this is a way to take the great test scores, students with great grades, parent involvement, and the things that many other schools are lacking and try to mix them together to make the district as a whole look better. Dumping more and more money into schools that have students who are not performing does not work. This has been done time and time again and still it is not working. I think this is a way to try to help those underperforming schools look better because people figure the students have to go somewhere. This is a huge mistake if this is the case. Many of the students that are performing and that are getting great test scores (which is what things seem to be judged by) will not accept going into these other schools. Some will go private and some will home school and the district will loose the $ they get for each student plus they will loose these great test scores. Sure some will go to the only other option schools and some will prevail but some will also struggle as a result. These students are used to high expectations by both parents and teachers. When you loose this at a transitional time in a child's life it can make it more difficult for them to make good choices and for them to perform well. The answer is not to mix the fundamental programs in with others. The solution is to hold parents and society accountable. I do not want my child to go to school where students are allowed to wear their pants below their waists, where behavior disrupts the classrooms, where others are being bullied and the administration thinks it is not a big deal. I have invested too much in the fundamental system for my children and so have other parents. We show up for conferences, we show up to help out at school, we check on homework daily, we go to PTA and SAC meetings, we are reachable during the day, we do not make excuses for our children and we back the teaching staff, we provide our own transportation, we make changes in our job schedules and even job careers just so our children can be a part of the fundamental system which is proven to work in Pinellas County. This just makes no sense at all......

Why do you think parents would send their children to a school they do not think is suitable? Why would teachers work at a school they do not think is suitable? OBVIOUSLY everyone likes SS, OBVIOUSLY, all the board will end up with is angry parents. This makes NO SENCE! :-(

Parents would not send their children to a school they do not think is suitable for them, and teachers would not work at a school they do not think is suitable. OBVIOUSLY everyone at SS likes the school, SO WHY CLOSE IT DOWN? (stupid idea). OBVIOUSLY nobody wants to move, and all the board wants is angry parents! Do NOT move this A+ school. The board does NOT make sence.

Who came with this dumb idea? Moving South Side to Mdiera beach? The dumbest thing I have EVER heard. This board has got to GO. You never made sence and never will. Leave us alone. Go ahead and close those schols that DRAIN your funds not the only school that keeps you on the map.

District will face huge liability if SS building falls down on everybody's head. It is unsafe and should not be occupied. It is a tragedy waiting to happen when kids are injured or killed because of the age and condition of the building.

[Julia]

I feel so torn reading all the commentary. MBMS would be more convenient but SSFMS has so much history. I applaud all the middle school students both from MBMS and SSFMS for their thoughtful posts.It gives me hope for when my daughter is there in a few years:) I am 34 yo (old to all of you!) and still remember thinking how well prepared the SSFMS kids were at SPHS compared to the rest of us. I went to private school and was amazed by the things they had done. That was 20 years ago. SSFMS definitely has a long tradition. MBMS has a gorgeous campus that is closer for me. They obviously have some great students and faculty as well. Tough decisions!

[Caring SFMS Student]

Ok to "Fundamental Parent" here goes. SFMS may have bad technology, we may still have white boards, and the school may be old, and the classrooms are very small, but that doesn't make it a bad school or anything. I have larned so much from that school. Like being responsible for my own actions, and how to deal with caddy girls, and everything in between! It all seems like it doesn't make a difference, but in the long run it does! How many students when they hear their school could close get online and share their feelings? Not many, only SS students! We are all maturing, and it is not a time to move us if we are. We are not whining, simply standing up for what feels right! My brother, a junior in the IB program, graduated SS very determined to start the rest of his life, now he is getting letters from colleges across the country, he is prepared everyday, and every single day he tells me something he learned at SFMS without even realizing he did it. Now is not the time to move us. We are becoming better people, and realizing who we really are. Why move us now? We have the best FCAT, we have the BEST teachers, we have good everywhere. I asked my friend at JHOP what she's doing in geography. She is 3 lessons behind us right now!!!!! What does that make you think? We weren't shunned everywhere else. SFMS allowed us in, and we are welcome in anytime.

[Sarahanne Gecan]

Here is my deal. I am a former Southside student and I fully believe Southside instilled the hard-working nature I have now. I clearly remember Southside being harder than my first 2 years of highschool and made me ridiculously prepared for it. Southside is an excellent program and really worked for me. But my real question at the end of all of this is that if "the children are our future" then why arent we giving them as many educational outlets as possible for all of their different learning styles. As a 20 year old about to enter the "real world" I'm extremely concerned with that. We've come to uncertain times and the least we can do is educate our future as well as we can so that they may have the knowledge and ability to change and adapt to the times they will be living in.

[fundamental parent]

it is not hard to figure out. stop whining. south side is a very old building. some of the rooms don't even have white boards. technology in the building is very out of date.

Coachman is too small.

This is the best thing the school board has done in awhile.

[Caring SFMS Student]

I do not understand why they would move 2 great programs! Southside: Where excellence is achieved! Last year was rough for me. Becuase,like many others I do not deal well with changes or transitions! A jump from your tiny Elementary School to Southside is a big change! This year, I am doing extremely well, and having the time of my life! I would not like to see this change again. Plus, how mnay people would want to drive an extra, say 30 minutes? I know my parents won't budge! So please, to all of you who think SFMS needs to close, think again! Which school has gotten A's every year on the FCAT? Who has some of the best students in town? Southside. And the thought of how I'm making some GREAT friends, and exploring what's it like to become an awkward teenager, that at any second that can be taken from under my feet at any second, kills me on the inside. In my circle of friends, all of them said no to going to Madeira. What would that do to our lives? And I certaily DO NOT want to go through last years whole transition, bad grades, odd year again. And my parents are already considering private school, what about the economy? People are BROKE. And for every parent that doesn't want to send their child to Madeira, or Thurgood, or their zoned school becuase of low test scores, what are we expected to do? Are we expected to live another year or two miserably? Or should our families struggle to put food on the table for those years so we can go to a descent private school so we have a slim chance of getting in to the high school of our dreams? If I want to go to I.B. how am I expected to get in if I go to a bad school all because the school board couldn't find some other way of getting us out of the tangled web that we got ourselves into? And why close some of the best schools in the county, in the state even? It seems hardly fair? Why not take some of the schools with lower test scores? And the teachers... Already have the smallest paycheck. And every day they show up dedicated enough to come teach us kids. What would they do? Would they stay with Southside? Would they be forced into another school? Or would they be forced into retirement? It all seems too fast, and too unfair. So to the Pinellas County Schoolboard please reconsider, or let us all move out, and give us another year!!!

[Chelsea]

I am a former student of Southside Fundamental. I am currently a senior in the IB program at St. Pete High. I came to Southside from a non-fundamental elementary school. The idea of closing Southside is a completely preposterous idea. Why would you close down the number one middle school in the county? The fundamental system works at Southside. However, one of the main requirements for success with a fundamental system is a smaller environment. How can a fundamental system be run at a school with over 1000 students? The answer is simple: it cannot.

At Southside I was involved in many clubs and loved all of my teachers. Southside has a positive learning environment. The homework was tough at the time, but once I got to high school I was fully prepared in every way. I entered Southside only knowing two other students. The environment at Southside helped me meet a great core of friends. Although my friends from Southside were scattered among different high schools, I still meet with my "Southside group" on a regular basis.

I am a former Southside student who entered the IB program fully prepared. I am now a senior. I have made straight A's all the way through. How can this not be due to the strong fundamental background and learning environment that the teachers work so hard to provide for the students at Southside Fundamental? Southside taught me work ethic, responsibility, honesty, friendship, and leadership skills that I will carry far past high school and college. I will carry these traits through life.

Southside should remain open.

[Elaine]

A lot of parents that have children attending Southside seem to be thrilled about their children attending MBMS, and rightly so - what a beautiful campus, and fabulous teachers! I have one daughter in 8th grade there, and twins ready to start there next year. Where should they go? Azalea or Pinellas Park? Any place that has room? I think we as parents need to get to the meetings and figure out a way to fix SouthSide and let the children in Madeira Beach and Seminole go to their local school. I agree with the student that posted above:If we wanted or needed our kids to go to a fundamental school, we would have put them there before. (My daughter is also in gifted and advanced classes) I really feel like the district is letting us down if they let this happen. I saw a brand new elementary school has been build on 38th ave - I guess they planned this so they would have somewhere to stick all the Madeira Beach elementary students.

Lisa at 7:19 agreed that there is some deadwood on the southside faculty. At high school level magnet programs the faculty all ready knows if kids coming from SS had certain teachers there they will need extra help in high school. High schools are not nearly as impressed with Southside as Southside is with itself. Faculty at SS has been together a long long time there are advantages and disadvantages to that it might be time to break some of that up.

Lisa - you made some great points. Our children are more resilient than we give them credit. I'm sure they will transition well wherever they choose to go. I have every confidence they will bring there fundamental values with them to their new school. I think we are sending the wrong message to our kids by resisting change so strongly. In the real world companies merge, people get laid off and those that remain are expected to adapt. Signing petitions and protesting outside the school board are admirable efforts, but as parents I think we need to prepare our kids for the change instead of instilling fear.
Every school has it great teachers and those that aren't so great. I hope administration will reward the great teachers with positions at the fundamental schools and reassign those who aren't performing as well.
I hope the expanded Gifted Program goes through at Thurgood Marshall as long as the students at SS are offered seats.

[Lisa]

SS parents don't freek out. I had a child 3 years at SS and now one at Thurgood. First of all, my child was NOT guaranteed a spot at Southside this year coming from Bay Vista. We applied and if a seat was available we could have it. I applied and we were accepted to both. I took Thurgood. Thurgood is not as srong of a program as SS, yes. But my child is much happier and is doing very well in the gifted program at Thurgood. It is not like the Gestapo they run at Bay Vista, but they do remove kids or students leave that are not conforming to the policies. Remember kids are coming from many different schools and it takes awhile to get everyone on board, just like my children when they started midway through the fundamental program. The teachers are really awesome at Thurgood. We also had great teachers at Southside but there were a few like, Wood, Thomas and Atkins and a few others that really should not be teaching, some need to retire and maybe this will encourage them to do so. Administration is also good at Thurgood. They are tough but fair. Every year Thurgood becomes a better program and when some of the kids from SS join us, it will make the program even stronger. All and all I have been happy with both Southside and Thurgood they both have there pluses and minuses. Change is hard, but change is inevitable. If SS does not close this year, it may be 1 or 2 more years. They cannot continue in the building that is falling down around them and merging schools to have full schools really makes economically more sense. Good luck Southside.

[education advocate]

With almost 100 posts, returning this blog to the head of the class would best serve the community. It is an ongoing discussion that does not benefit from contributors having to seek the blog discussion
Although, I would like to believe the Times is reporting, Mr. Tobin's responses are unfortunately slanted towards the district perspective.

I would like very much to see the numbers on what it will actually cost to CLOSE tyhe 5 elementary schools they propose closing,as well as the costs for relocationg SSFMS, converting MBMS,and all the rest of the changes they "plan".It is easy to say WHAT it will save the district(eventually) but nothing is said about what it will COST to make said changes!!!

[fundamental parent]

What happens to the 5th graders who are at Pasadena, Lakeviw and Bay Vista right now?? Where do they get to go if SS closes?? Wil they have to apply to Maderia and hope that there are seats available??? Thurgood is just not an option for many of us. Sure the sign says fundamental but it is not run like a true fundamental and it is hard to get rid of kids who do not adhear to the fundamental rules. It takes a lot of time and they get a lot of chances before the school can send them somewhere else for poor behavior and disrupting the class. Once a school accepts a kid it could take a few years to get them out when they are causing problems and this is why Thurgood is not an option. They have many students who are not following fundamental policy but are given chance and chance again and again after meeting after meeting. This is why if SS must close then the program as is (current students and teachers) should be moved as one not merged with any program.....As stated many times before just look at the test scores, the successes of the students at SS, the commitment that the parents (black, white, rich, poor or whatever)make. The reason it works is because of the commitment of all involved and the experience and capability of the teachers at SS. You can not just put a teacher into a fundamental school and expect them to teach and follow the fundamental way just like you can not just put a student into it. It takes years for a program to get to what SS has. The district would be nuts to destroy that. I also think they are crazy to think that the parents will just go along with it. Many of the parents are resourceful and will find another option and will not put their child (with the good test scores that the district wants) into a program that is not proven....

Why must all these changes be made SO quickly? Why can't things happen gradually? I understand there a budget issues, but we have fundamental application periods coming up in January!

Sorry if this was already addressed and I missed it, but what are siblings of a middle school student from one of the fundamental elementary schools given the opportunity to join their siblings at the combined school?

[Teacher]

How do you reconcile closing down a beacon in the south side of our community? How do you reconcile removing our minority students from an environment proven to be conducive to academic success? How do you reconcile moving our high-achieving minority students to a school with little minority representation? How do you reconcile closing down (honesty should prevail at this point) two of your highest achieving schools?

Dear MBMS student,you have written a very thoughtful letter voicing your concerns.Everyone,students and parents alike,are quite worried about the proposal and how it would affect the individual schools.No one wants to give up THEIR wonderful school.
I can assure you about one thing,though.None of the students at Sountside have behavior or learning difficulties.Both my kids were in the gifted program there and took IMAST science classes too.The only difference between you and the SS kids is the fact they attend SSFMS and you attend MBMS...and a code of conduct that the parents sign agreeing to follow rules that are not any stricter than the ones you signed in the Pinellas County Schools rules of conduct.Also,parents have to agree to sign homework assignments and tests...that is really not a big deal at all.They also have to go to PTA meeting or SAC meeting, which can sometimes be a drag but it is worth it for our kids to be able to go to such a great school!The dress code is a bit stricter for Southside kids,but that also is no big deal,really and truly!! As for the sports,I would hope that MBMS would be allowed to keep their sports program..the Southside kids would LOVE to be involved in sports!! We are really getting ahead of ourselves here,though.I think maybe the board will see how silly it would be to take two wonderful schools and try to make them into one.We ALL love our INDIVIDUAL schools..they are unique and very special. BUT, if a merger should go through, you and all your friends do not need to worry because SS kids will be just as scared at first as you all are, and then you ALL will see you are ALL just alike.

[Frans van Haaren]

Good point. Why don't we (Tom?) ask the district about all the other options that it has looked at to save money. I am sure it (the district) has looked at the whole picture and that it will be able to provide a coherent argument as to why the current proposal is the best amongst all alternatives.

[MBMS student]

I have been going to Madeira Beach Middle School for two years now and the students here are accoustumed to the MBMS lifestyle.We get good grades at our school too!! We are an "A" school. I am in the gifted program and all advanced classes. I have no behavior or learning difficulties, and do not need such a strict program. If MBMS becomes a fundamental school all the current students will have to follow fundamental school rules. It's not fair that we lose our school and have to follow the rules of another after we chose to be at MBMS. I chose Madeira because of the Marine program, which no other school has, Not a fundamental school.I DON'T WANT TO GO TO A FUNDAMENTAL SCHOOL!!! We will not have sports.I have been on the MBMS girls volleyball and track team for two years, and next year is my year to be captain of the volleyball team!!!! That won't happen if MBMS turns into a fundmental school. I think our school should stay the same and SSFMS should transfer to another location!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom Tobin, St. Petersburg Times]

Tired: I will ask but I think I know part of the answer. The district is looking to reduce costs that recur every year. Selling property may net you some extra money this year, but it’s a one-time bump that won’t help next year or three years down the road when enrollment is still declining and your revenue from the state continues to go down. The district is trying to “right-size” for the long term. There also may be issues with where they could spend the proceeds from a property sale. I suspect that, by law, any proceeds would have to be used on “capital” or building costs and could not be used to defray day-to-day operating costs. You do make a good point with the overhead costs, though. Would closing an area office be a good move? Good question. We will check.

[Tired]

What a great idea close the number one middle school in the county. When are we going to get a school board that recognizes what works, and rewards those programs. If this was a business you wouldn't sell off your best asset,you would invest in it. Close the schools that are failing. Sell Riveria Middle the property backs up to a golf couse, there has got to be somwone interested in developing that land. What about the Euclid property, sell it. The area offices should be closed. On any given weekday there is a handful of employees there, and the overhead to maintain them so school psychologist have a place to meet one day a week doesn't make sense. If you close those offices students would not be affected. How about looking for ways to increase revenue without disrupting students. Those area office are costly and serve very little purpose. Tom why don't you ask about area office, and property that could be sold to increase revenue.

[Tom Tobin, St. Petersburg Times]

Folks:
Look for an announcement in tomorrow’s Gradebook about a site on tampabay.com to share information on middle and elementary school closings and answer your questions. It’s been nice answering questions under this post, but I think we can do a much better job in a different venue. Plans are to start it up Monday, Dec. 1, the day before the School Board meets in a workshop for another discussion about school closings. We will continue as long as this public debate lasts, which looks to be well into January.

[Tom Tobin, St. Petersburg Times]

To 11:59:

Here are some answers in the order of your questions:

(1) The savings for closing Coachman total $932,213. The savings for closing Southside come to $1,014,818. Those two figures are what it costs to run everything outside the classroom, such as plant operators, office staff, cafeteria workers. The classroom budget at both schools is not part of the projected savings because those costs wouldn’t go away. The district still will have to pay the classroom costs for the kids – just at another school.

(2) Based on the numbers above, it would cost the district about $2-million to keep the schools open. Yes, one objective is to create more fundamental seats. But the primary objective is to find ways to save $40-million.

(3) There has been little direct public discussion of how the Southside exodus would affect the surrounding African American community, though I have heard people talk about it in casual conversation. I think the district would say that the neighborhood kids around Southside would be served by Thurgood Marshall, three miles to the west. I spoke with Southside principal Mike Miller yesterday, who expressed concern that students in the neighborhood would not be able to travel to another school. Nancy Bostock - County Commissioner/former School Board member/Southside parent – has asked superintendent Julie Janssen to consider a two-year shuttle bus service that would ferry Southside kids in the east end of the county out to Madeira Beach, with morning pick ups and afternoon drop offs at two or three locations in St. Petersburg. Janssen sounded somewhat skeptical of the idea. She told us that she would have to look at the cost.

[southsideparent]

Why not make Thurgood Marshall fundamental only, so all southside kids can move there and open madeira beach as another fundamental school. The gifted program can go to Bay point middle, which already has a strong MEGSSS and IMAST and math/science magnet. The gifted program would be a better match at Bay Point Middle while Thurgood Marshall can be strictly fundamental.

[dear tom]

Tom,

Why don't you write about how overpaid the PCTA directors are and how they don't answer emails or phone calls. I think they sit around all year, collecting our money and laughing at how stupid we are for paying them. Write about their lack of proactive represenation and what a racket tehy are running. how much has membership dropped this year?

Tom, you seem to be better at getting answers to questions than any of us so here are some:

(1) How much money does the board expect to save by closing the two fundamentals?

(2) what would be the projected budget figures on leaving both of them open AND converting Madeira -- if the objective is to create the most fundamental seats because there is so much high demand -- would this not maximize the amount of seats available for fundamental? (Keep the two middle schools and open a third one?)

(3) Has the Board or Administration given any thought to how pulling Southside out of South St. Pete and moving it to Madeira sends a signal to the African American community? There is a sizable African American population at Southside now but would that change if you pulled the school out of that (lower income) neighborhood and moved it to upscale Madeira; ?

[vickie is dumb]

Vickie i work with your brat kid and hate parent conferences

we have it made at fundmental schools. we have acoountability and discpline that regular schools lack.

[Vickie,the PROUD Southside Fundmental parent]

Obviously the person who signed off as:
Posted by: VICKIE/PROUD SOUTHSIDE PARENT is dumb | November 19, 2008 at 11:40 AM did not fully read what I had written.That is often a common mistake commited by such derrisive posters. Each time the question of FUNDAMENTAL SCHOOLS comes up in the media people are quick to spout the same invalid,incorrect,and ignorant statements.
Southside Fundamental Middle School is not a school populated by rich white kids.Any correlation between SSFMS and private schools would be simply the quality education our kids recieve. Any family in the county who enters the lottery for available seats has an equal chance:income,social status,home location,skin color,religion,ETC. is NEVER a consideration.It is disheartening that those who post such inaccurate statements do not take the time to investigate before posting.I would like to invite ALL nay-sayers to each and every FUNDAMENTAL school in the county when they hold their tours and open houses prior to the application period this year:PLEASE come visit and SEE just WHAT it is that makes these PUBLIC SCHOOLS so special and IMPORTANT to so very many DIVERSE students/families from all over the county.I can say with much confidence that if they would visit,investigate,and really open their eyes they would soon eat the words they write.

[Julia]

If Julie is really dedicated to helping everyone get in, I hope she decides to open another fundamental elementary in north st pete. I don't live there but have a lot of friends who do. We have Pasadena and Madeira on the west side, something should be done for the families living up towards the Gateway area. Bay Vista really is a far drive for them.

Tom,

Thank you for your thorough and timely response. Looks like there will be lots to weigh and consider as we move forward to placement of our Fundamental students for next year.

Although this is bringing the ever-uncomfortable situation of change, it appears this should provide a good long-term solution for expansion of Fundamental education in Pinellas County that should satisfy some of the long waiting lists for these programs. As painful as this change feels right now, it seems we must turn to aiding in as smooth a transition as possible for all parties involved.

Again, thank you for keeping us informed.

[Tom Tobin, St. Petersburg Times]

To 2:15:
Superintendent Julie Janssen also addressed your question about whether Coachman students would be given a preference to go to Thurgood Marshall instead of moving to Kennedy Middle. The answer is yes. Her exact words: “Why not? That would be fair. We really want to make this as people- and kid-friendly as possible.”

[Tom Tobin, St. Petersburg Times]

To 3:59:
Your predictions on natural feeder patterns sound very plausible, though Thurgood Marshall, with its new gifted magnet, will have the additional draw of gifted students from Ridgecrest and other schools.

As to your question about siblings at Madeira (3:11 asked a similar question), I put it to superintendent Julie Janssen today. She said it’s her intention that families who enroll students at Southside/Madeira Middle would get a preference for younger siblings at the new fundamental elementary at that site. Her view is that the district’s current rules already allow it. Yes, it keeps families together, but Janssen put more emphasis on the notion that the district needs to create all the space it can in high-demand programs. “I just don’t believe in keeping people out,” she said.

I would love our students to have a new building, Yes, The S,Side building is awful, But I want a promiss that the program WILL stay the same. Can the confused board do that? I really thuoght that the new superintendent will be better. Oh, well.

4:40- Crockett can make her 3rd run for a school board seat in two years. I wouldn't blame her failures on your lack of effort though. Every so often the voters get it right and in her case,they have pegged her for the selfimportant opportunist that she is.