Speakers urge Pinellas board to reconsider school closings
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December 09, 2008

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Julia

So has all talk of Madiera Beach been stopped? Will the elementary be converted to a fundamental or the whole thing DOA?

BBMOM

Tom/Jeff - Was anything mentioned about the ESE & ESOL students. Will they stay at their schools or go to a closer school to their homes?

Also was anything mentioned on new start times for the schools since busing will not be as it is today?

Thanks.

Lisa

9. Oh, one more comment, it costs more to house prisoners than to educate children.

Lisa

1. I have children that attend fundamental schools.
2. Cost per student at fundamental schools is lower than at other schools according to Pinellas County Schools website.
3. No I did not vote yet on amendment 1 because I knew for a $50 savings it was going to seriously hurt schools and recreational activities and jobs.
4. No fundamental families do not think they are better than other students, but test scores do tell that they are academically advanced as they test higher.
5. Local families are welcome to join the fundametal program or go to a different local school.
6. There are waiting lists to get into fundamental schools, not so much at the zoned schools.
7. Sorry to say that school closings are inevitable as 30 million plus dollars is a lot of money.
8. Kids loose.

"Therein lies the problem. Wake up, will you? Throwing kids out of public schools is WRONG".Hmmm. I guess bleeding hearts would rather see these cronic disruptive bad apples be allowed to curse,spit,throw,talk,yell,hit,demean,belittle,spew...ETC forever and ever with no reguard to any kids in class who wish to actuallly..let me dare say it...LEARN!! And heaven forbid the teacher should actually WANT to teach!!??!!Throw them out-GOOD BYE TROUBLEMAKERS!! "public school" is NOT a babysitting service and NOT juvie hall.

I think we as parents need to heed some of our own advice.... Sometimes we have to do things we don't like or want to do. Everyone is not going to get their way.

2:15..the rub is that in fundamental school they ARE ahead,and use extra class time for enrichment,discussion time,reading time,additional activities,and often TO WORK AHEAD...so YES,they ARE ahead of the curve!!

retired teacher

Support the school board...they have to make cuts. They need to take the tough stand on closing those schools. Many of the A+ elementary schools have 600+ children. Those parents who are whining can volunteer at their child's new school and I am sure the PTA will have a committee for everyone to serve on.

The school board also needs to stop hiring back people from DROP. If you know that someone has been in DROP for 3 years, then start training someone to take the place. A big deal was made about the teacher from East Lake High School, but Ron Stone and Cathy Fleeger and Curt Snare were rehired for their same jobs. They took a month's vacation and came back to high paying jobs and can also collect their retirement. One should not enter DROP until they are ready to retire at the end of 5 years.

Principals who are retiring at the end of 2008 are being replaced with APs(acting principals) getting $50 a week extra to do the job, so the district can save places for the principals whose schools are going to be closed. That is insane!

"...the difference is in a fundamental school they are thrown out of the basket..."

Therein lies the problem. Wake up, will you? Throwing kids out of public schools is WRONG.

Once they're thrown out where should they go? Their neighborhood school? Oh wait, that's now Fundamental too. Guess we need yet another bus.


BTW you might be surprised to know that the state mandates what's taught in every school when--as in they have a strict schedule. Your student is getting exactly the same instruction as the kid in the neighborhood school 100 miles away.

support the board

The board finally got something right. all you parents need to shut up!

I too have no problem with the merger,providing ALL the current SSFMS students who wish to make the switch actually have a spot! Add the teachers and administrators and I would be a very happy camper at that beautiful campus.Having most MBMS students stay and enjoy the perks of attending a fundamental school would be a bonus:more friends for my child to make!My biggest fear is that they WILL shutter SSFMS,MBMS will have VERY limited seats available,and that would leave the majority of SSFMS students and staff w/out a fundamental school to attend.Most of fundamental families have spent upwards of 6-20 years in the fundamental system(various siblings following one another through)and to suddenly throw our middle schooler into a "regular"public school WOULD without a doubt be a set back for them.You have to realize that because of the strict discipline policies our kids are usually quite a bit ahead academically.That is not bragging:it is only fact.I do not want my child bored in her classes because she finished that same material months before!That is a real possibility-even in the gifted and advanced classes she would be taking. I can deal with her adjusting to a new school..she would. I can deal with her adjusting to new friends-she would.BUT, I will NOT tolerate sacrificing her academic excellence because she is in classes with students that can not behave,are disruptive,and nothing is done about it.I also do not want to see her attending school on a campus where violence is rampant.Does the general public realize just how miniscule the suspension rate is a SSFMS? How violence very,very,seldom raises it's ugly head?When some uninformed and ignorant bloggers speak of fundamental parents worrying about our kids getting"cooties" from regular school kids they MUST mean THAT-that we worry about ill disciplined children either getting in the way of our child's education-OR our child being caught in the cross-fire of violence-OR our children having to deal with students who have never been taught respect for others and manners or made to follow rules.Every school has some really bad apples:the difference is in a fundamental school they are thrown out of the basket-leaving all of the rest of the apples to glow.I want my child glowing--not becoming bruised and dulled in a new basket.

informationfromSSwebsite

Southside Fundamental Middle School is located at 1701 10th St S. in St. Petersburg, Florida. Southside Fundamental Middle School is one of four known Romanesque Revival buildings in St. Petersburg. All were designed in the 1920's by architect Henry Taylor. It is only one of four such building of this style located in St. Petersburg, Florida. http://www.stpete.org/SouthFund.htm.

Southside Fundamental is a county wide program in the Pinellas County school system. Our students come from all areas of St. Petersburg as well as outside of the city. Students who attend Southside apply for a spot in our program and are then offered an invitation to attend. Parents must invest their own time and energy for their students to attend Southside by providing transportation to and from school daily. Parents must also agree to attend 8 PTSA or SAC meetings each year. These components of the fundamental concept insure a collaborative partnership between students, teachers and parents in order to achieve academic success.

For the students starting in August 2008, we have 203 in 6th grade, 203 in 7th grade and 203 in 8th grade for a total of 609. 34% of our student population are minority , 12% are on free or reduced lunch. We currently have no students with limited English proficiency. Our attendance rate was 100% for the 07/08 academic year.

There is a highly qualified faculty at SFMS comprised of approximately 35 instructors, 2 guidance counselors, and 2 administrators. 100% of our faculty have Bachelors Degrees and 40% have advanced Degrees. Southside is proud of it's ability to attract highly qualified instructors and has never experienced an unfilled position. Our current teacher student ratio is an average of 22 students to each academic teacher.


SFMS is commited to fundamental education. The guidelines for a fundamental school are very specific and require participation from all stakeholders, parents, teachers, students, and staff. There are academic requirements that earn students demerits when they are not fulfilled. There are behavior expectations to ensure a safe and successful working environment. When these expectations are not met, there are interventions, and if necessary disciplinary measures that are taken by the school. There is a dress code that is enforced, but it does not include uniforms.

Students at SFMS participate in Math competitions including sending a team to LEGO Robotics competitions, Band and Choral performances and competitions, Economics competitions, NJHS, Student Council, Book Talks and Battle of the Books, Multicultural events, Science Fair, History Fair, C.R.O.P., Peer Mediators, Senior Stallions, STEP, Drama Club, Sunshine State Book Club, and Odyssey of the Mind. In addition to the traditional choral and band offerings, Southside provides opportunities to audition for Jazz Band and Show Choir. Our yearly Talent Show provides all students with an opportunity to audition and perform in a variety of ways.

Julia

Omali - some fundamental parents are quite pleased w/ the Madeira Beach merger.It is closer to my home. I am sure the kinks will be worked out by the time my 1st grader is there. Plus it is a gorgeous campus! I do feel for those who are in SSMS now or have 5th graders entering it for the first year. I feel like they just gave us a stunning beach property:)Sorry to disappoint but not all of us are crying in our wheaties bowl.

A few other points worth addressing.I volunteer a lot at my child's fundamental. No, not in her classroom. I help out in various places where needed-cafeteria, library and whenever large school events like the family night dinners, book fair go on.

Please do not assume just because a mother is at home you are rich either.We have made many sacrifices for me to be at home. In some cases, dependent on what the at home person's income is, # of children and taxes etc... it is cheaper to be at home than work. Child care is very expensive.I am confused-do you not want people volunteering at schools? Volunteering is a bad thing?

You have no clue,no concept,no intellect,no understanding,no idea,no brain omali.

Support The Board

First off, I support the Pinellas County School Board on their plans to close the schools to save the enormous costs associated with keeping less attended schools open. That's a great first step. Next would be to take a long hard look at the administrative level about reducing the weight at the top of the pay scale and offer then all early retirement.

Busing can be paid for by parents in the form of vouchers based on their family income. The poorest pay the least (or nothing), the richest pay the highest scale. Also, how about families start paying for varsity sports on the middle (non-varsity) and high school level? Reduce the schedules of the games (they are STILL PLAYING HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL IN DECEMBER). Why are we all paying for the privileges of the few?

Austerity folks, that's what we have now. Pay as we go.

Support The Board

First off, I support the Pinellas County School Board on their plans to close the schools to save the enormous costs associated with keeping less attended schools open. That's a great first step. Next would be to take a long hard look at the administrative level about reducing the weight at the top of the pay scale and offer then all early retirement.

Busing can be paid for by parents in the form of vouchers based on their family income. The poorest pay the least (or nothing), the richest pay the highest scale. Also, how about families start paying for varsity sports on the middle (non-varsity) and high school level? Reduce the schedules of the games (they are STILL PLAYING HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL IN DECEMBER). Why are we all paying for the privlages of the few?

Austerity folks, that's what we have now.

Omali Y.

HAR HAR HAR! 7-0!!!!

You people must have been pretty persuasive. It is going to hilarious seeing all of the fundamental kids come to school with gallon containers of anit bacterial goo just in case a "traditional" kid bumps against them in the hallway.

Public education is for suckers.

Cindy

I don't know why this is being referred to as a merger between 4 middle schools into 2. It's no merger. It's called Coachman coming in and kicking the teachers, staff and kids out of Kennedy. Sure maybe some teachers will get to stay and kids who want too. I am always at the school volunteering and always have been but I loved everything about Kennedy, mostly the teachers and staff. We were family, everybody knows your child and getting that kind of attention at a middle school doesn't come along often. I wouldn't want my other son to go there when it becomes Fundamental just because without the teachers and staff who I've known for 7 years it would break my heart too much. So now they've taken away his close to home school and for the first time in his life he'll have to take the bus to who knows where. It's not fair that these teachers who have committed themselves to the students are now wondering if they'll even have a place to work next year.

GLAD

Boy am I glad I don't live in pinellas.Some of you people are down right cruel. I understand being concerned with your childs education,but this is beyond ridiculous! Both my children are a product of the public school system and I am proud to say they are very sucessful, intelligent, respectful, and loving young adults now. What should be tought to some of these parents is there will always be change, you learn to adapt and deal with it the best you can. Sure some things happening now you feel is not fair, but life is'nt fair. Good luck to you all.

Todd

Me, me, me. Or Mine, mine, mine. When are people going to realize that this is not meant to punish a few students, it's for the good of the ENTIRE Pinellas County School System. I say kudos to the board for realizing that there is a need to adapt to a changing situation.
Take this time to teach your kids some valuable lessons: (Here's a cheat sheet for those not accustom to doing so...)
1. The Good of the Many Outweighs the Good of the Few.
2. Adapt and Overcome Adversity.
3. Change is inevitable. Embrace it.

Smith

Cut teacher's benifits? You have to be kidding me. There is no way any teacher would teach in this county if you did that. Not to mention teachers didn't receive any raises or their steps this year. When is this county going to realize that county schools are obviously not the answer? Take a trip to the midwest and see how successful they run their schools. Maybe that will be a wake up call for all!

good

The school board is finally doing something proactive and people are complaining? Get over it. This is what is best for the county. The needs of many students outweigh the needs of your one child. Your tax money goes to the county, not to that single school.

Shut up already.

Tony

Wow, people are getting mean in here. If parents are showing their kids what's in this forum than most of what they reading is no different than what they see and hear at school., ex. people "yelling" at each other, calling each other names, putting each other down. It will be a never ending cycle until we realize that we cannot always get what we want. Unfortunately the generation after mine, I'm 39, was taught a "me first, screw everyone else" attitude. I'm a parent but my daughter is 6 so we skipped a generation. I teach her to be nice to people and respect herself. She goes to a school that is up the road from us and I drive her everyone morning. If she had to go somewhere else I would still drive her every morning and she would most likely have to get used to new friends OR some of the ones she goes to school with now would follow her. I think it's more of a problem for the parents that the kids. Most parents don't want change because it screws up THEIR routine. For kids it's hard at first but they adapt. If there is one thing that we can teach kids it's that you can't have your way all the time.

concerned

Maybe we should be discussing population control. Sounds like most of you need to be fixed.

Teacher

Phil: Clarification - There is not an application for fundamental schools, it is a lottery system. Any student of any demographic and any achievement level is welcome to attend the fundamental program.

MRL

There is no accountability by this board. It is quite unbelievable. It appears that there are a couple of them that are either completely clueless, or have sick authority issues an MUST do as they please. Not to mention the 2 newest members were barely even allowed to speak at the workshop on Dec. 2. How sad is this? We deserve to see the dollar amounts. They need to provide some hard evidence of any real savings, especially regarding the grandfathering issues.

I know in 4 years my taxes have DOUBLED. Nothing like paying twice as much and being pushed around and screwed over twice as bad.

Tracey

The money went to build multi-million dollar community centers... you know, the ones you have never visited.

BBMOM

MW - Shouldn't a 7th grader be in bed by now?

Tim

I live in Palm Harbor. If they close Palm Harbor elementary that means our property taxes here should be cut.

Fundamentally OK

Actually, if we all want to have something to yell about, here's one - Remember the real estate boom, not so long ago? The incredible tax rates Pinellas was raking in - doubling their expectations and then some? Well, where did all that money go? I don't think we can allow the "board" to use the budget as an excuse for failing and closing our schools, when they sure didn't use the surplus as a reason to improve them. It's a two way street. We need to know - where did the money go and why didn't we see a dime of difference in our schools? They owe us an answer.

Mom

Go to the PCSB website - they are so extremely top heavy. My problem is not with them closing schools, it is with them closing schools that are performing so well. These schools are in such close proximity to schools that are equally sized and not performing. People that beg for parents should stop speaking up should stop their begging. Parents should be involved; thankfully this is what keeps the board in check. Someone needs to ask the board members what they have been doing all year long besides voting their own raises into effect.

M.W

haha. my BFF is the new picture (: GO RENNY!!!!!! GO SFMS!!!!!!!

Demetrius Jenkins

they need 2 shut down that school and come 2 college hill and c what real life is like y do they get a better place than us its time 2 get real

FundamentallyOK:

Noone is attacking YOU...you didnt not come on here with your better than everyone attitude like previous writers. MANY fundemental school parents that I have personally encountered are quite condescending when it comes to their kids being at that type of school. Its really ugly. Anyways, Congrats to you. Glad you are where you want to be and making it work.

M.W

AMEN @ 10:47 (:

FundamentallyOK

How did this become a war on fundamental schools? I hate to break the stereotypes here, but I am a fundamental mom and I work more than full-time, have a long commute, and sometimes have to drag my tired self to the PTA meetings and take time off to do a little volunteering, when I can. I am not a supermom, not a stay-at-home mom, I am just a Pinellas public school parent trying to do the best I can by my kids. Fundamental works for me - if it doesn't work for you, that's fine...more power to you, don't apply...but don't attack those of us who do send our kids to fundamental school, because we're not attacking you.
We should stand together as parents of Pinellas public school children and demand the best education we can get for all of the kids in our county and hold the officials accountable for delivering it.

Long Time Resident

10:36
You're completely wrong about Bay Vista and Pasadena Fundamental schools.

Pasadena was taken over when Child's Park Fund was shut down because of asbestos. Pasadena students were given the "option" to conform or leave. Child's Park was fundamental long before the idea of introducing special programs to attract non-minorities to the neighborhood.

Bay Vista was turned fundamental because of a temper tantrum thrown by parents who "lost" the lotter to get into Child's Park. The group involved faked a neighborhood survey and used fake numbers to show a "demand" for fundamental seats. This removed Bay Vista's seats from the neighborhood schools pool in the area which were limited when the Bay Point Schools (both elem. and middle) become a K-8 magnet Science/Tech.

Magnet schools were designed to attract students from out of the area--not fundamentals.

So right back atcha: I dare you to open your mind and actually LEARN something!!

M.W

Mmkay. So, I am a Southside Fundamental student of two years now (7'th grade). I know I haven't been here long, but my heart feels like I belong here. It's home to all of us and it crushes my heart to know that people are trying to take that away from us. Yes, Madeira is an 'A' school, but it's not JUST about the grades. If you truly think about it, and put yourself in our position,you'd know why. Sure Southside is an old building, but no matter how old, how rustic, or how bad it looks, we don't care. It doesn't matter to us. We are a FAMILY. And you can ask me why I wanna stay in THE current crappy building as many times as you want, and I'll answer. It's quite simple of an answer, actually and I guess you'll wanna know it. My answer being is that if you asked me to tell you a good memory about our rotunda, I could tell you one. If you asked me about a good memory with the court that we play on at P.E, I could tell you. You see, our school has SOOOO much history! We don't wanna move. We allready have so many good memories and thats why we are going to fight to keep the school alive. I don't want different teachers. I dont want to have a nicer building to study in. I allready have so many good memories HERE and I want to keep it that way. Even my older sister whom is in college now went to Southside....7 years ago or so. Sure, the building is old, but to us it is our home away from home. And all this crap abotu the school board caring about us and our education? YEAH RIGHT! HAHA! Thats just about the EASIEST lie I have ever been able to see thorugh. All the school board cares about is MONEY MONEY MONEY. And Southside DOESN'T even have bussing! Sure, we need los of fixing, but it's not like it's a health violation or anything. We're doing just fine the way we are. I mean HAVE 'SOME PEOPLES' LOOKED AT OUR FCAT scores and stuff? HUAHHHHH? How about 23'rd in the country for Middle Schools. How's that for ya'? And 17'th in the state!? UH, HELLO! Last time I checked, our school won Battle of the Books, we have one of the top five placement choirs in the county (who went to Gatlinburg and plaed Superior Ranking, by the way), we have EXTREMELY above average FCAT scores and so much more! AND YET the school board is still TRYING to get rid of us! But what they don't understand is that even if we make it for another year and they try to close us the next, we WILL keep on fighting!......for our home, for our teachers, for the students and for all of the people who make Southside what IT IS everyday! I don't think we deserve to have to go mix with non-fundamental kids, cause incase no one noticed, that doesn't seem to go so well ;o That'd be like putting a dog with rabbies in a cage with a perfectly healthy dog. The dog with rabbies would infect the healthy dog. Get the point? How are the non-fundamental kids going to react to having new teachers and new students? I don't think ONE person with half a mind, would think that the non-fundamental would want to follow the guidelines of getting your homework signed each week, ect. Chyeah, thats a joke. AND WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO ALL THE FANTASTICAL TEACHERS here at Southside? YES, they DO have lives and DO need money to survive such as us. I mean we have some FANTASTIC teachers here! I believe that if the school board wants to move SOuthside and turn Madeira in to a fundamental school, then the fundamental teachers who have had years of knowing the guidelines should ALL get to go and the teachers from the non-fundamental school should try to know more about it before they automatically get the job just cause they use to teach there. But anyway, allthough this will not change anything, I thought I schould just put my mind somewhere and let other people know what the school board is doing ;o Lets re-cap!
1.) The school board cares about money, not the students.
2.) Southside Fundamental is ranked 23'rd in the country for middle schools.
3.) We have FANTASTIC teachers.
4.) No matter if we stay open for another year and then the school board tries to close us down, we are still going to fight back.
And last but not least, I want people to get this in their head. We are not just a school. We are a family. One big Stallion Family.

If I recall, the only people griping about Amendment 1 were cops and some city adminitrators (who didnt want to lose their perks.) I heard NOTHING of any teachers or school board members fighting against amendment 1. Why does it only seem to be affecting our already-pathetic school system?

I voted NO to amendment 1.I am fundamental.Make that 98%...and dropping.

SM

Either charge for busing like you charge for lunch, or scrap busing altogether. We certainly wouldnt be the first to get rid of busing.

Mike

To move kids out of their elementary schools who are NOT using busing is absolutely twisted "fairness" logic. Many schools have YMCA programs, parents have options to carpool, etc. Keep the kids in "their" schools if they are driven!

Me 2

Its 10:37 and my husband is still waiting to speak. They have too many HUGE issues on the table to make this all in one night. The board memebers are probably not even listening at this point. This was their plan. They knew people would leave. Sick.

mention.Majority.In.Succeed.Sorry.

If the school works, support it!

Every school model is flawed. Some more than others.

Small schools work. They are effective for all students, but even more so for low income, minority and at risk students.

Small schools produce higher educational gains and more high school graduates.

Fix what's broken-don't dismantle what is working.

Any fool can write a letter like the one posted by 3:56.What that fool neglected to mentiopn is that the mojority of both fundamental schools and magnet schools were/and still are located schools that are in areas of cities that needed to draw children that were not minorities.Do some research fool, on the actual founding of these schools MANY years ago,and why they are located where they are--and the fact the concept is not unique to Pinellas county-and why they suceed where other schools do not...go ahead--I dare you to open your mind and actually LEARN something!!

Go Rays!!

1. I'm a teacher
2. There's is so much money in the public school system. So much is wasted. Why do our kids need free breakfast-- what do they eat on Saturdays? Why do our kids need the school to provide them transportation? Why do we need to pay school psychiatrists, social workers,district "trainers" & reading coaches-- aren't our teachers supposed to know how to teach reading? There is so much beauracracy (sp?) in the school system.

3. Teachers work hard. But there are a lot of other people out there who work just as hard, if not harder. There are people out there who don't get 8 weeks of summer vacation, 2 weeks of Christmas vacation, one week of spring vacation, three days off for Thanksgiving, One extra day off each month, and now (in Hills.) a 1/2 day each month, plus 10 sick days a year.

4. Why not, instead of holding "Save our School" rallies, show up at these meetings, demanding that the school pare down unnecessary personnel? Demand that cuts be made to people's jobs instead of closing the schools. Administration scaling back. Nope. parents just show up and demand their own way, instead of demanding a better way.

Tammy

Glad we built all those multi-million dollar community centers rather than choose to better the education of our children. Nice to see we have our priorities in good order. Congrats Pinellas County!

BBMOM

Amendment one - guess you'll have to except 99%.

I'm a fundamental mom who voted no on amendment one. I was smart enough to know that the money would be cut from things we need to keep our schools running.

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