Maybe Florida has more smart kids than it used to

It's commonly assumed by parents and teachers that accountability systems like Florida's have resulted in a terrible tradeoff: more attention for struggling students, less attention for high-performing ones. But is that really true?

The Sunday St. Petersburg Times story that briefly explored the issue noted some evidence to the contrary, and included a chart listing NAEP and AP scores for Florida kids. More than ever are passing AP tests. And with the exception of eighth-grade math, more than ever are not only reaching the basic level on NAEP but scoring at the proficient and advanced levels. (For what it's worth, more are also scoring at Levels 4 and 5 on the FCAT.)

So does that suggest we might actually have more bright kids than we used to? And that –- dare we say it -- accountability has somehow helped the brightest, too?

USF professor Sherman Dorn offered his take on yesterday's story. I don't know if his blog headline will grab you as much as it did me -– "Ron Matus drinks the Kool-Aid" –- but Dorn never fails to make good points. Read on for my response.

Aaaiiiieeee! I think Sherman Dorn is drinking Kool-Aid, too. And the flavor is … cherry-pick! (Ba-dump pshhhh!) I certainly deserve to be thrown under somebody's blog bus now and then, but I don't think this is one of those times. For what it's worth:

• I didn't write the headline (reporters rarely do), and if I had, I would have been as cautious in doing that as I think I was in writing the story. I fear the headline and subheadline may lead people to conclusions that were not in the story. I would have posed the headline as a question, which I think fit the tone of my story: "Are we boring bright students?"
• I didn't draw any conclusions about whether "bright" kids were being left behind. In fact, I clearly pointed to some evidence (FCAT, NAEP and AP scores) that suggest, in Florida at least, that that's not the case -– that perhaps we have more bright kids than we did just a decade ago.
• I did look for folks with another take on the issue, and I quoted one: the principal at Thurgood Marshall (who happens to be one of the most thoughtful and well-read-on-education-matters principals I've met). "A couple of things accountability is not doing in Pinellas is narrowing the curriculum and teaching to the middle of the bell-shaped curve," he said. "Intellectually challenged students are not disappearing. They're still growing."
• I was not writing specifically about so-called gifted students. I mentioned that gifted advocates were especially worried about what they see as a negative tradeoff under accountability, but I did not narrow the scope of my story to those students.
• My goal for the story was not to say, "This is what's happening in our schools," but to say here's what students, parents and teachers are saying is happening, and here's what some of the evidence shows. I've been on the education beat for nearly five years, and I realize every day how much more I have to learn. But I do think this question of tradeoffs (real or perceived) between struggling and higher-performing students is one that deserves more discussion and newspaper ink.

That being said, Dorn brings a world of knowledge to everything he writes. I'll keep sipping from his Kool-Aid -- once I recover from the bus accident.

Ron Matus, State Education Reporter

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Comments

Is this bologna coming from a pro-Jeb organization?

Never underestimate the uselessness of saying gifted students are faring well because of an NAEP advanced rating.
That is like saying a whale is good because he is bigger than a minnow and the goal was to be as big as a minnow.
If you ask a gifted kid to be above his/her age expectancy, you will generally have that by definition. Hold the applause. Do not call the underachievement of our gifted a success.

There is a lot more to this discussion. Both Matus and Dorn make good points. However, there is a need to nurture gifted students in a way that perhaps, Dorn's runner friend did not need to be nurtured.

Dorn describes a go-getter, self motivated student who uses hard work and self discipline to reach goals. Honestly this is not a "gifted" student. A student who has many gifts for sure, but not necessarily in the form of an overly high IQ.

Wait, before you call that an insult-read on.

Gifted students with extremely high IQs (and parents who point it out often) have gifts and curses. Their gift has not taught them that hard work and self discipline help them learn new skills. They do not have built in motivation to struggle through challenging tasks. In fact, educationally speaking, they often do not come across challenging tasks-certainly not on the FCAT or any other standardized test.

We have children in the public school system (some of them near and dear to me) that have the capacity to learn much, much more than they do. They are often not straight A students, they are not the socialites, the jocks or even an average looking kid. Sometimes they are still trying to find a place to fit in, convinced in some way they will never fit in, yet they need to discuss their thoughts with someone. And this is where Dorn is right-if the gifted teachers don't recognize the many gifts (and curses) in the learning process, maybe they don't need to be teaching. Gifted kids do need challenges, they need special attention-just like all kids need specialized attention. For high IQ gifted kids special attention may mean finding other peers who share the same concerns/fears/thoughts, etc. But, also a teacher who can at least find them someone who thinks on the same level as the student if they can't do it themselves.

We need to track the number of fully capable high school drop outs. You would be surprised at how many of them are high IQ gifted students.

[itsallanumbersgame]

to 6:33...and don't you think the whole purpose of the course recovery plan for middle school was partly to play a numbers game and show off FL as having a better H.S. passing rate?

IF the 16 year olds are kept in 8th grade and then drop out there, then they won't count in the national statistics
for FLorida's high school drop outs since they will never attend high school....get the strategy....

...the powers that be think we down here are stupid not to see their numbers game to make FL look better.

Any chance the Times is going to take a look at the new middle school drop out rates? If we only measure high school drop out rates we are missing a whole group of 16-year-olds that drop out of 8th grade. If they fail 3rd and 5th grades, they are likely to be 16 in eighth grade. At 16, their parents can sign them out!

if our kids are smarter!! It is most likely due to the undying devotion of our in class room educators.

[terminator]

while you guys are riding high, have you checked the average Florida student's ACT/SAT scores?
Believe me, it ain't in the top 25%.