Speak out on ESOL/ELL standards at Tampa hearing

Florida is once again changing its rules for the way teachers are trained to teach English-language learners.

And perhaps not surprisingly, the issue remains controversial.

Rosa Castro Feinberg, the retired FIU education prof and former Miami-Dade School Board member, has pressed for years to keep the training high, so teachers really can reach the many children who come to Florida not speaking English.

The state has looked for ways to make the training less onerous. You can see its latest proposed standards and compare them to the current standards to get the picture. The new one doesn't talk about teaching gifted ELL students, for instance.

"At a time when student standards are becoming more challenging and teachers need the best possible preparation to help ESOL students succeed, the current draft omits or does not sufficiently cover several of the areas included in the national ... standards," Feinberg tells the Gradebook via e-mail. "It also omits areas needed in the Florida standards because of requirements mandated by the LULAC Consent Decree and state law and regulations based on the Decree."

If you want to jump into this argument, there will be a public hearing at 10 a.m. Nov. 9 at Hillsborough Community College's Dale Mabry campus, student services building 113. There's another hearing at the University of Miami the next day.

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Comments

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

If I recall correctly, the ESOL program Weight was originally set at 1. 8 on the basis of a study conducted in 1991.

Now, the ESOL Program Weight is only 1.124.

2009-10 Florida Education Finance Program (FEFP). Slide 8:
http://www.fldoe.org/eias/databaseworkshop/ppt/fefp.ppt

A recent study of the cost of educating English Language Learners was conducted in New York. The conclusion is that ESOL program weights should be double that for other programs.

See GETTING IT RIGHT: Ensuring a Quality Education for English Language Learners in New York.
http://www.thenyic.org/images/uploads/NYIC_ELLBRIEF_FINAL.pdf

[DMJ]

Yes please read the consent decree. Reading is NEVER mentioned and as the people invloved with the decree stated... was never intended to be. DOE changed this a few years back. This of course was illegal to add reading since it is a core (60 hour) level. Reading is clearly listed by DOE as 18 hours for ESOL and then presto! All of a sudden it is 300!
On another note. What is happening in Florida with ESOL is almost criminal. Kids are being kept in ESOL programs to obtain extra money. It is sad. This cottage industry must end. The very people who say they advocate for these students need to keep them in the program to keep a job.

[Former ELL]

“Fed up teacher" strikes again! For you edification, my grandchildren nor my children were ever labeled as ESOL students, my grandchildren to my dismay, are monolingual speakers of English. Therefore you comment: “And if you are a former ELL, than why are your grandchildren ELL? Shouldn't you be teaching your children the precious skills you claim to have worked so hard to gain? Why are you allowing your grandchildren to be subjected to such awful teachers like myself? What are they benefiting from their ELL status? Extra time on testing? College scholarships? That comment is completely out of line and I take issue with that statement. The fact that you state that “My students consistently rank in the top 15% of test scores in the 9th largest school district in the US. These are students who come to me behind and leave ahead. My lesson plans have been adapted and utilized by the county for other reading classes.” That tells me that at some point the “training” you have received from the district, the university, workshops etc, has been useful to you in your classes. There is a saying that says;” one learns something new every day”. And the fact that we have opportunities to grow professionally in our chosen career should be a plus to any teacher.
You say and I quote: “I love what I do; I don't love being forced to donate my time sitting in classes that have NO proof they are effective. None whatsoever. You said yourself FCAT scores are pitiful; why is that when we spend so much money sending our teachers to these trainings? Oh that's right; it's not the TRAINING it's the TEACHER so let's just shove more training down their throats.” As a professional we must decide what works, and what does not work. You choose to affirm that you did not need anybody to tell you how to teach or to learn from the training, which is your prerogative, and as an adult and as a professional. However, there are those teachers that have not had your same expertise and talents as you insinuate, that need some type of training, in this case how to meet the needs of ELL students, must be given the same opportunities that you have had to grow and learn from others that may have more experiences, or be knowledgeable about what they are doing. Maybe you should lend your talents to the district and train other teachers on the good strategies that you use in your classroom.
I consider teaching a vocation, and as such, anything or anyone that can do to help me improve my skills in meeting the needs of ALL my students will be received with an open mind and an open heart. Your last quote, “As for taking issue with ELLs being placed in my classes; please do. Save me the additional trainings. I will miss the kids, but I won't miss being told how to teach by so called experts like yourself.” I still think that your posture is still something to think twice about.

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

Former ELL: I take offense to your comments that presuppose that just because I question the efficacy of ESOL requirements that I do not want to teach ESOL students and do not do a fantastic job doing so. FYI: I teach in a school where over 40% of our population is classified ESOL. My students consistently rank in the top 15% of test scores in the 9th largest school district in the US. These are students who come to me behind and leave ahead. My lesson plans have been adapted and utilized by the county for other reading classes.

Does that make me an expert in reading? No more so than your 'former ELL' status. And if you are a former ELL, than why are your grandchildren ELL? Shouldn't you be teaching your children the precious skills you claim to have worked so hard to gain? Why are you allowing your grandchildren to be subjected to such awful teachers like myself? What are they benefiting from their ELL status? Extra time on testing? College scholarships?

I love what I do; I don't love being forced to donate my time sitting in classes that have NO proof they are effective. None whatsoever. You said yourself FCAT scores are pitiful; why is that when we spend so much money sending our teachers to these trainings? Oh that's right; it's not the TRAINING it's the TEACHER so let's just shove more training down their throats.

As for taking issue with ELLs being placed in my classes; please do. Save me the additional trainings. I will miss the kids, but I won't miss being told how to teach by so called experts like yourself.

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

Julia: It's wrong for me to question because Ms. Feinberg-Castro knows the answer spells doom for her and her cronies out of FIU. She claims she has never charged for consulting school districts. She doesn't claim (and cannot claim) that she has never profited monitarily from the creation of ESOL "curriculum" for teacher inservices nor from consultations with the FlDOE. Nor should she not be able to charge for her time. HOWEVER, her interests are therefore biased and as I stated before it is completely unethical to lobby for something you stand to benefit from.

ESOL has been and will continue to be a waste of precious education dollars and teachers time. If this training is so important, why aren't all teachers required to complete ESOL classes? Why do some teachers in subjects who have more DIRECT contact with ESOL students (science, PE etc) require less hours than teachers like myself who rarely come in contact with ESOL LYAs and LYBs or even LYCs because they are all in ESOL reading/language arts????

Also, please someone show the data ESOL works. I am held to standards based on data, why isn't the consent decree? Where is the proof? Surely there must be something. But there isn't. It's a vast money pit.

[Julia]

Why is it wrong for Fed Up to question where the results are? It's a valid question. If you all had any idea how much $ is wasted on good intentions, cronyism and tests you would question too.

It is also poor that teachers are being forced to do this on their off time w/ no comp. They are overworked and underpaid enough already. We can't keep thinking teachers are these superhuman beings that are a 110% on every day, willing to take on every hard case. We are all human.

It all comes down to parents. My dad lived in a refugee camp. He was malnourished. He did not speak one word of English, nor did my aunt (ages 6 & 8) when they came off the boat in NY. Amazingly, both were promoted one grade ahead at the end of the year. Both went on to Ivy League. My great grandma learned English in her 60s watching soap operas lol. There was no ESOL.No one spoke their language probably for 200 miles around. Makes you wonder doesn't it? Total immersion works!

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

ESOL, here is the link to the Consent Decree. http://www.fldoe.org/aala/lulac.asp
It specifies the formula for students to paras and students' rights to English language instruction and comprehensible instruction in the content areas. With accurate information about the guidelines you may be able to find a school or district administrator who can help you. If that fails, the parents or other interested persons might call the Department of Education hot line. the number and related information is listed at http://www.fldoe.org/aala/omsphl.asp

The student is lucky to have you for a teacher.

[ESOL Insufficient!]

So how do I teach a student who knows no English whatsoever, and I don't know her native language, and there is no interpreter or ESOL English class for her to get help with in understanding the English language? I'm trying but it does not appear that I am getting through, and the student is languishing. I've addressed the issue with administration and all that I hear is we don't have enough students to warrant an ESOL Para or an ESOL English class!

[Linda Evans]

Twenty years ago, Florida expanded its definition of quality education to include all of its students, through standards to address the already-numerous, ever-growing population of English learners in its schools. We have come a long way in the past 20 years through the hard work of dedicated teachers, administrators, and teacher educators. We have also learned a lot in the field of education in general and language education in particular, making it highly appropriate--indeed critical--to revisit the standards that guide our practice.

Interestingly, twenty years ago many districts reported zero or few students who were English learners in their schools--until measures mandated by the Consent Decree were consistently implemented and suddenly the numbers of ELLs in districts ballooned. Only a handful of districts had policies in place to guide placement and instructional practices for ELLs; today all do. Twenty years ago, ELLs who were fortunate enough to receive services were not monitored to assure their success when they were deemed no longer in need of services. Today we understand that students who are mainstreamed from ESOL services are still learning language, and at a much more challenging level, so we support them through monitoring and follow-up services.

My point is that if we don't teach reading or content area subjects the same way that we did twenty years ago, and our standards have certainly changed in those areas, why would we expect to maintain the same standards for language development, which is the foundation upon which all other learning is based? More knowledge makes us better educators, and quality educators (demonstrated by research) are key in improving achievement for our students. We know things about learning today that we did not know (or know for sure) twenty years ago. We know that there are multiple ways of demonstrating giftedness, not all of which are (English) language-based. We know that there is a direct, critical relationship between a student's native language and development of oral and written language skills, and achievement, in English. We know that school engagement is a critical factor in student graduation rates and that culturally responsive teaching that takes into account students' backgrounds is successful in raising achievement levels.

Ongoing training in education is essential because we cannot stand still as the world around us changes, and ignoring new information that would aid student achievement is unprofessional and unethical. This is the nature of our field, and it's exhausting, demanding work. The charge that a group is benefiting financially from this training is repugnant, meant to separate people into camps and discredit those who do the training and advocate for our students, often on their own time and without additional pay. I do not have one colleague that has not donated countless extra hours to their own teaching, then spent huge portions of their non-teaching time participating in curriculum committees, in state organizations, and volunteerism on behalf of our state's children. We are all straining under the charge of bringing the best education possible to children, and it would behoove us to turn our energies to supporting one another at all levels of education rather than attempting to divide.

A phrase I was reminded of recently sticks with me--A rising tide lifts all ships. So long as a portion of our student population is not achieving to their potential, our system, and indeed our society, as a whole suffers. By capitalizing on what English learners bring to our classrooms--their languages, experiences, and world views--and bringing as much knowledge and quality to instructional practice as we can, we can help those students who are struggling to achieve, and those who are achieving to excel. Isn't that what we are supposed to do in education?

[Former ELL]

It is so sad to read comments from “Fed up Reading Teacher”. I cannot conceive the notion of a teacher that permeates such disdain for her calling. You are a teacher and your duty is to teach ALL children and that includes ESOL students. There is training for ESE, for gifted students, for early childhood teachers, for elementary teachers, subject area teachers. At some point in the history of the world, someone decided that these students were different or needed specialized instruction and the person assigned to teach them had to have certain skills to reach them and to meet their needs. ELL (English language learners) students are children too.
Your comment: "And to top that off, all of my students the past three years have been on 2 year follow ups for ESOL, which means they speak English, but they are being kept ESOL 'just in case' for two years so I don't even technically have any ESOL students.” If you attended the training AND listened to the instructors AND read the Consent Decree, you will know that the reason the ELL students are monitored for two years is to let you know that they still need support from you. It takes 5-7 years to acquire what Cummins calls "academic language"; therefore, those ESOL students in your class are still acquiring English language skills. The training is a good as the trainer, and as good as the participants, if one attends those 300 hours with a mindset, that the training in worthless, it will sure is a waste of time on your part and a waste of monies in the part of the district that is trying to educate professionals become effective teachers. I as a former ESOL student, a former ESOL teacher, a mother and a grandmother will take issue with the administration of your school, if one of my grandchildren or any ELL student be placed in your care.
This quote is very interesting.
"In the entire time Florida has been a party to the consent decree, we can't somehow manage to raise their test scores? Oh! That's right! Because research shows what ESOL students need is intensive classes, with small teacher to student staff ratios that focus on teaching English, while simultaneously teaching core subjects in their native language. But we don't do that in Florida".
I beg to differ, there are counties in Florida that address that issue and have done a fantastic job in those settings. You need to become informed and actually research issues in ESOL and Bilingual Education. If reading teachers realize that teaching reading to ELL students is not the same as teaching reading to English speaking children, then, maybe the reading scores would be better in the FCAT. Again, you get what you expect and if you do not support and meet the needs of that population of students, the result is that the ELL students will not succeed in high stakes testing instruments. Well trained teachers do succeed in teaching ELL students. ELL students are ready and able to learn, they just need the support, the encouragement and right materials, and the committed teachers to make that goal.
Attitude in the part of the teachers drives the success or failure of the students in any classroom. We need to support and TEACH our students and stop the "blame game". English Language Learners have rights too. And remember most of the ELL populations in Florida are born in the United States; therefore, they have the right under our Constitution to receive the best education along with all children. Remember, expectations, biases, racism and bigotry must never be a part of the atmosphere of any classroom. We are TEACHERS and we must be held to a higher standard.

[Rosa Castro Feinberg]

Fed Up, you've been misinformed. The parents and educators who advocate in support of ESOL students and teachers take time away from income producing activities to do so. Members of community based organizations such as LULAC Florida are all volunteers, working for free. In my own case, I retired in 2001 and have never charged Florida school districts for consulting work.

Fine Print, I agree. An agency that wants input from parents and teachers won't schedule its meetings during work hours. In prior years, they were scheduled from 1 PM to 7 PM. Last year, when they changed schedules, we pointed out the effect this would have.

The current standards are twenty years old. We insisted that updating was needed. The State Board of Education responded and directed that the review process be conducted in a transparent fashion. Board members want a rigorous set of standards reflecting current research so that ESOL training will be useful to teachers as they help their students learn the English language. That's what we all want, isn't it?

Now we need to monitor to help ensure that the proposed changes to the professional development standards are also improvements. Taking part in the Nov. 9 hearing is one way to do that.

[Fed Up Reading Teacher]

Fine print reader: Exactly! They don't want teachers to attend. Ms. Castro-Feinberg and her cronies have a vested interest in keeping the ESOL requirement as it stands now and even more so from increasing it. $$$! To even champion something you stand to financially benefit as you collaborate and design ESOL trainings (paid of course) for educators is unethical. It is also unethical to continue to expect teachers to donate (yes these trainings are unpaid!) more and more of their time. I am forced to complete 300 hours of ESOL training. At my hourly rate of $25, that amounts to $7500 in training I don't get paid for. Not to mention the money I must spend to pay for a sitter for my son. And to top that off, all of my students the past three years have been on 2 year follow ups for ESOL, which means they speak English, but they are being kept ESOL 'just in case' for two years so I don't even technically have any ESOL students. Furthermore, there has never been a study that shows ESOL classes for teachers actually work. Look at the stagnating scores for limited English students in Florida. They are horrible. In the entire time Florida has been a party to the consent decree, we can't somehow manage to raise their test scores? Oh! That's right! Because research shows what ESOL students need is intensive classes, with small teacher to student staff ratios that focus on teaching English, while simultaneously teaching core subjects in their native language. But we don't do that in Florida. No! We waste $7000 of our teachers' time to justify jobs for Ms. Castro-Feinberg and her cronies.

[Fine print reader]

I'd love to attend the meeting to support changing the standards. However, I do teach school on Mondays at 10:00 a.m. Way to keep things accessible for teachers!!