Discuss Times report on vaccines and autism

[The father of Joseph Fielding, 4, says Joseph is lucky to be alive after a bout with whooping cough when he was 6 weeks old. Joseph had not been vaccinated yet. Daniel Wallace | Times]

Do you want to know more about vaccine safety? A Times report looks at the debate over vaccines and autism. Dr. Gregory Poland, one of the nation's top vaccine scientists, has agreed to answer questions from St. Petersburg Times readers.

Poland, director of the Mayo Clinic Vaccine Research Group , helps set national vaccine policy as a liaison member of the federal Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. If you have a question, post it here by noon Monday. Poland will provide answers to select questions on Tuesday.

 

*** Dr. Gregory Poland's responses are in.

Complete coverage:

Part one: Debate rages over need for vaccines

Part two: Shots fired over flawed vaccine

Some favor vaccine delays

Interactive: Compare the data

Comments

[Noble]

Hey! The babes are here! This is my favorite site to visit. I make sure I am alone in case I get too hot. Post your favorite link here.

[Concerned parent]

I am the parent of a 5 year old son who has suffered with sensory processing disorder and immune system problems. I do not blame that on vaccines and am not “anti-vaccine.” However, for those of us who struggle with that small percentage of children who may benefit from a slightly different vaccine schedule, why does it have to be so black and white? I want to see an option offered for children who do have immune issues or whose parents are seeing autism signs early on. First, why can’t the 36 vaccines be a bit more spread out over time instead of overloading them so close together and so young? Also, what is the big deal with simply drawing a titer to determine if these multiple doses of the same vaccines like dtap and MMR are even needed? Again I understand that most kids require the number that was determined years ago but that may not be true for every single child. If you have developed immunity with less doses then that saves a child from being overtreated. Lastly, for parents who do want to separate the MMR, why can’t it be an affordable option to do so and not cost $600-$800 per individual shot? If there could just be a few more choices available especially until a cause for autism can be found, so many children’s lives would be improved. You have no idea how hard it is to watch your child struggle in life and then just keep taking them in for shot after shot. I don’t believe it’s working for every single child. That’s great for the majority if there’s no ill effect but
we in the minority do count. We need to stop seeing the issue as vaccinate vs. no vaccinations at all. There can be a middle ground if we just make some changes.

[Mary Lou]

I have been in the health care practice for 47 yrs. My crirical thinking skills question why we would subject our infants to multiple vaccinations all in one visit. Truly , an alternate schedule , as recommended by Dr. Bob Sears, is a much safer practice pattern !

[Frans van Haaren]

If you believe your child has been seriously injured because of the vaccines that he/she received you need to be aware of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. This program allows parents to file claims against the government (not the pharmaceutical industry) when they believe their children have been seriously injured by vaccines. There are 1000's of autism cases pending in this court. For more information:

www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation

[MIchelle]

I just don't understand why they can't be broken down into 2 or 3 vaccines, instead of one huge one with I can't remember how many are in it
I don't believe the vaccines are the complete cause of autism but I think it may cuase it with certain children who's families may be prone to it, I believe children are better off with the vaccines, but they need to be divided into 2 or 3 more shots to be given at diffent time, not all at once

[Catherine]

i was a pediatric nurse for 30 years retiring 10 years ago.my question for dr.Poland is do the children getting vaccinations need the hepatitis b vaccine at such an early age. my daughter was offered the vaccine for her baby in the hospital. neither my daughter or her husband are drug addicts or have hep b why is it so important for their baby to get 3 extra shots in the first 6 months of his life? also why can,t babies get one vaccine instead of 3 or 4 every time they go to the dr?thank you for any help you can give me.

I am 83 yrs old. I have had three attacks of shingles in the last 5 years. Should I get the measel vaccine?

[Mark Marsh]

Nice article Mike. I read the whole thing and my lips don't even hurt. Got any peer reviewed journal articles that their authors still stand behind? Since Iowa and California have banned thimerosal for years now there should be a lot fewer cases of autism there. Got numbers? I'm not a huge fan of "big pharma" but there is no real cause and effect here.

PS Oswald really did shoot Kennedy all by himself. There is no grassy knoll gunman.

[L Adams]

While I certainly cannot determine this in the cases of other children, I know that vaccines DID NOT cause my son's autism. Nor do I believe that he suffers from food allergies. If there is any "outside" factor that may have caused his autism, probably the only one worth pursuing would be that he may have suffered some kind of brain damage because of the difficult delivery he endured. I have no way of knowing that now. I am more likely to believe that things just came together the right way for him genetically that caused this condition in him. I do not believe there is anything wrong with him or that he needs to be cured. Instead, my energy goes into educating him and overcoming the challenges of how he learns differently than my other three children.

I am tired of those who think they are speaking for all of us parents of children with autism when they say that vaccines caused their child's autism.

[Autiemomma]

OK, first of all, they did not "remove" vaccines containing mercury- they simply were ordered to stop producing it. Because of this preservative, these vaccines have extremely long shelf lives. So if the doctor's office received a shipment of vaccines before thimerosal was "taken out", then it is concieveable that those vials are still sitting on doctor's shelves today. In other words, to claim that the rates are still rising even though thimerosal was "removed" is misleading. My understanding is that when crunching the numbers (1 in 150 kids diagnosed), they are looking at 8 year-olds. So let's do the math...this is 2008- that would mean the kids they are looking at were born in 2000- and therefore, those children received mercury-containing vaccines.
I would also like to point out that 95% of the population develops immunity with their first vaccination against a particular disease. It is simply more "cost-effective" to get a second shot just in case, rather that to do a titer to find out if you are one of the 95%. Probably works out pretty well for the vaccine companies too, don't cha think??
Last, but not least, I have two children with autism. My son was developing prefectly- meeting and usually exceeding all his milestones- until he got several vaccines within two weeks of each other- to "catch up" because he had been sick. It was a matter of HOURS before we noticed he was withdrawing into himself. I had also been told to "go ahead" and give him Tylenol before those shots, and I had done that, thinking I was being a good pro-active mom. I later found out that Tylenol depletes Glutathione, which is what helps detoxify the body. So shame on me for not researching that before-hand. Where I was going with this is that my daughter and my son are like night and day with their autism. I can honestly say that there was no regression for my daughter. You may argue that having two children (14 months apart) with autism points to genetics. I will say that I agree with you. But, there is no doubt in my mind, nor in anyone's mind who knew my son when he was an infant- that his vaccines triggered his autism. Period.

This argument can continue until the end of time. You've either seen it, or you haven't- and until you have, you will never understand. I find it hilarious how people who haven't witnessed this imediate regression poke fun at those of us who have, and call us creationalists, and whack-job, trail mix-eating homeschoolers. It's funny, because I call you guys "doubting Thomases"!

[Mike]

Right back at you Mark.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0616-31.htm

Have a good long look at this. It's a long article so you will have to "Use your brain".

[Tracey]

OK, people, it's this simple. Starting with the first 1,000 births in 2009, don't give those babies the multiple 4/1 or 6/1 shots. Give them each individual vaccines, i.e. a mumps alone vaccine, then a single rubella vaccine, then later a measles vaccines - do this thru their entire infancy until they have received all of the boosters that other kids before them have. Now, lets compare notes. How many of THESE kids will be autistic? You know why no one has done this, because all of the freakin pharmeceutical companies would be bankrupt and up to their wazoo's in lawsuits, that's why. Think about it.

[Matt]

This is an unfortunate debate that exploits the pain and fear experienced by the parents of children affected by a devastating disease. However, a few verifiable facts that are usually omitted from this story help illustrate that vaccinations are not likely to be the cause of autism.
For one, the initial "study" that linked the MMR vaccine to autism was discredited as biased and financially motivated, and a similar link hasn't been successfully demonstrated since. Since then, the case against vaccinces has been almost entirely anecdotal, and has been non-empirically broadened to all vaccines, while the original "study" dealt only with MMR.
Additionally, the "increasing rates of autism" widely cited are statistically attributable to a broader definition of the symptoms of autism, and an increased effort to screen for and diagnose autism. Again, every study comparing autism rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated children shows that the unvaccinated children develop autism just as often.
Also, people regularly cite the coincidence of the time that children develop autistic symptoms and the time that they received a vaccine. It is important to remember that there is a difference between coincidence and causality. That is, just because certain things tend to happen at the same time, doesn't mean that one causes the other. It is similar to insisting that since most people die while collecting retirement pensions, it proves that collecting a retirement pension kills people.
Finally, the preservative thimerisol is commonly blamed as the link between autism and vaccines. It should be noted that its use has been discontinued in pediatric vaccines in this country, and shouldn't be a reason to avoid vaccination.
We are fortunate enough to live in a country where most of the practicing doctors and nurses have never even seen cases of polio, measles, or diptheria in their patients. This is because of the vaccination programs that have been in place for the past fifty years. Good public health is the reason Americans live as long as they do. When considering this issue and others, try to gather as much information as possible, and be very wary of the people who insist that too much information is a bad thing, or that the "experts" are lying to you. Like autism now, the causes of other diseases have misunderstood throughout history, with people fearing that everything from earthquakes to cats to intentionally poisoned drinking water was making them sick. (All three of those were once suspected as causes of bubonic plague, which has since been found to be transmitted by bacteria carried by fleas.)

[clay]

Tom, you may be on to something. Fluoride now goes into the drinking water supply of almost 70% of the U.S. and during the same time as this "forced medication" took place, autism has undergone a tremendous increase. No doubt something in the environment is triggering it. One wonders it could be due to some chemical interaction of the mercury-based preservative in the vaccines, and fluoride? This merits scientific investigation. Will it happen? Not likely. Why not? Just follow the money. The producers of chemicals pushed for water fluoridation and the manufacturers of vaccines own the most powerful lobbyists big money can buy.

[Tom]

May I suggest some simple number crunching to see if there is a statistical correlation between the number of cases of autism in areas where the water is fluoridated - vs where the water it is not, or minimally contaminated with fluoride?
Because the fluoride ion is so miniscule it has no difficulty in penetraing through the brain barrier. Scientists now know it accumulates in our pineal glands and also that it damages the thyroid. Highly toxic fluoride, which has been pushed hard for the last 60 years on Americans by public relations agents of the American Dental Association, the Center for Disease Control, and Florida's own Dept of Health, is contributing to, or at cause for the epidemic of autism, would not at all be surprising.

[Mark Marsh]

News flash for you Mike. They removed thimerosal from almost all of the vaccines in 2001 and autism rates are still climbing. Use your brain. I'm betting that most of the "vaccines cause autism" crowd also believe in creationism and a 6000 year old earth. When you believe in magic and invisible sky dudes you will buy into almost anything.

[Mike]

It's the mercury in the vaccines that is causing autism. Mercury is one of the most deadly poisions on the face of the earth. Everyone should ask themselves why they put poision in the vaccines. If someone can tell me how mercury is good for you I would love an explanation. If anyone has doubts about this all I can say is do your own research and stop believeing what the "experts" tell you.

[junebee]

There needs to be more money and research
into causes and cures for autism. Parents are heartbroken and desperate for cures and out-of-pocket payments for treatment are exorbitant.

[c young]

In 1985 I took my perfectly healthy son to the doctors to get his shots to start school....Within 15 minutes of the doctor giving him his shots, while still in the doctors office, my 5 year old son quit breathing. Thank the Lord the doctors office was behind St Josephs Hospital in Tampa, because the doctor and nurse got my son there in time to save his life.
My son spent almost three weeks in the hospital suffering from many tests trying to find out what happened.
Of course, they could or would not explain.
The 5 year old I brought home was not the same 5 year old I brought to get his vaccines.
My son suffered brain damage from not breathing. My son since the age of 5, has suffered retardation. He is now 28.
Not only has my son suffered, but my life was changed on that horrible day.
My thoughts on vaccines....they are life altering.
My nephew, was normal until he got his vaccines, and now he has autism...
My thoughts on vaccines....they are life altering...NOT JUST FOR THE VICTIM, BUT FOR THE PARENTS THAT HAVE TO GO THRU THIS!!!!!