... And Comments On Largo, Cars And Bicycles

(On today's earlier post about Largo)

I would say this is just a response to the absurd media coverage of Stanton.  Most people would just like to see this freak drift off into his life of anonymous reststop-bathroom sexual encounters.  But the media, the SPT in particular, insists on printing daily photos of this ridiculous man dressed like a woman, and has basically suggested that it's the citizens of Largo - not Stanton - who have something to be ashamed of.  There was a time when we didn't assign nobility to a man who walked out on his wife and kids in order to indulge a twisted sexual fetish.  a lot of people still think that way, and they're fed up with having stanton shoved down their throats.-- Mike

(On drivers who let their insurance lapse)

The state should have a system where the fhp or sheriff goes out to the address and removes the plate , then the person is placed on a list that would make them pay for the whole year not just a month. If this system was followed most of these drivers would not be on the road. Our representatives should not make folks like me pay 400 bucks more a year to make up for their failure to get these losers off the road. -- Bob, a senior citizen

(On auto inspections)

What we really need in Florida AGAIN is vehicle inspections!!! There are too many oil burners polluting the air and too many junkers that deserve the last rights! We also should be able to report people that throw out their garbage on our roadways. -- Grumpy

(And a couple of bicycle complaints from St. Petersburg -- anybody want to respond?)

I am wondering about what you might know about what kind of deals have been made, and with whom that allows packs of bicyclists to cruise 4th street s, in or around peak traffic times, flaygrantly disobeying and disregarding vehicular traffic statues, endangering not only themselves but also the law abiding vehicular traffic they are obstructing. -- Jack Strait

I have to jump on Jack's comment. I live in Pinellas Point and these people are a menace. They'll show up here and scream that they always ride single file--BALONEY! Huge packs of these morons fly right through intersections against lights. The worst is right in front of Bay Point Middle school at 9AM. Certain times of the year, eastbound drivers are squinting into the sun, looking out for kids and have to avoid this gang. We DREAD them daily. -- Jane

Comments

Amen to the bicycle comments. I don't have an ounce of sympathy for bicyclists who end up under the tires of a car. These people have no business on the roads. Why not allow skateboarders and pogo sticks too? Bikes are no more equipped than those toys to maintain the flow of traffic. And I'm so sick of hearing bikers whine that they have the same rights on the road!! Then why the hell don't they have the same responsibilities, like insurance, registration, and licensing? Go play with your toys in the park!!

[Howard Troxler]

Well, I have a right to the road as a cyclist, just as I have a right to walk down the road or cross the street as a pedestrian. Ix-nay on the talk about not having sympathy for people getting killed.

Besides, indeed bicyclists have the same responsibilty to obey the laws, which is EXACTLY what started this discussion -- whether large packs of cyclists are obeying the law or disobeying it.

As for insurance, if bicycles weighed two tons, killed 30,000 people a year, polluted the air and were a frequent deadly weapon employed against society by drunks, then I would require licensing and insurance to the same degree...

[Senor]

I personally don't feel comfortable wearing such tight shorts.

[Adam]

While it is true that many cyclists do not ride responsibly, they are classified as vehicles by Florida law and have all the rights pertaining to cars and trucks. You can read more on that subject here:

http://www.floridabicycle.org/images/LEG2006final.pdf

As a cyclist who rides 150 miles or so a week, I will always make my safety a priority over your convenience. This often means taking a whole lane when appropriate. If you have a problem with those rights, you can take it up with the folks in Tallahassee.

[schauer]

Adam,
I think there are few that would argue with the rights of cyclists. But with rights come responsibilities!!. You have laws to follow like not riding 2-5 abreast or knowing the rules on passing. THe cyclist scream like NRA babies about rights but him and deny they have responsibilities!

I use to ride daily when I lived in DC. Here there appears to be little respect by car drivers for cyclists. THere is even less respect for car drivers from cyclist.

[Jane]

Adam and Howard,
We're not talking about single cyclists and we're all aware that cyclists have rights. The point is that when you have 40-100 cyclists in a dense pack flaunting the traffic rules they know they are subject to, endangering themselves and others, there's a problem. I've now seen a new pack that has decided that 5pm is a great time to play in traffic in the Bayboro area downtown. They've perfectly timed this for when employees of USF and area business are getting off work and traffic is gridlocked.
I have no problem with cyclists following the rules, but the Times has run endless articles interviewing "St. Pete Bicycle Club" members who bleat that the follow all cycling and traffic rules while everyone who has ever shared the road with them on foot, in a vehicle or on their own bike, knows this is blatantly untrue.

50 cyclists riding 6 abreast flying through an intersection against the light is illegal. Period.

[Adam]

Jane, I think we can all agree that they must follow the rules of the road, but I do ask that you put the group ride situation in perspective. If the lead rider goes through a green light that subsequently turns red, the rest of the group will follow through. It's no different that a long truck or funeral caravan. Yes, they may be technically running the light, but we can only ask for your patience and forgiveness for the 5-10 seconds it might take out of your day.

As far as riding abreast across the road, yes, I'll admit that sometimes it does happen, but should we also chastise every construction site, train, parade or tractor that temporarily blocks or slows traffic? Cyclists are not without sin, but any driver who claims to be is a liar. No one here has ever surpassed a speed limit or rolled through a stop sign?

In response to the first posting regarding skateboards, in plances where cyclists are able to maintain the speed of traffic (anything with a speed limit of 25 or less, including some roads near Bayboro) they are legally entitled to the full lane. Just because a car has the capability to pass at 60mph, doesn't mean it is allowed.

[mike]

Sorry Adam, but you're going to have a VERY bad day if you decide to ride your bike in the middle of the road, in front of me. There's no debate about the law. We're talking about common sense. If vehicles have to slow to 15 to 20 MPH below the speed limit or move into oncoming traffic to get around you, then you don't belong on the road!!! Bikes impede traffic, that's the bottom line. They are toys that don't belong on the road.

[schauer]

The big difference is that a driver who occasionally rolls through a stop has not planed when they set out on their journey to violate the law. Second, the speed limit on third and fourth in the is 35 or higher. Third the "10-15" seconds (closer to a minuet plus) we have to wait for them to finnish running a light is not as dangerous as the fact that a person with the right of way will enter the intersection because they see they have the light and the next thing you know the club has one less member. I just cannot believe that anyone would argue, like Adam, that cyclist have some special status that says the rest of the world must adjust to their illegal behavior! This arrogance is why drivers have little empathy for the pack of bikers. I am a causal rider in that area and the "pack-o-bickers" are equally rude to the casual bikers as they are to the car drivers. If they want to do a parade several times a week let them get the proper permits. Otherwise start obeying the laws and learn to share the roads!

[schauer]

Sorry for the typos. Minute not a quick dance.

[D ROMANO]

I'M ALL FOR BICYCLIST AND SHARING THE ROAD - BUT THE LAWS ARE THE LAWS - I ALWAYS ENJOYED SEEING THE PACK ON SUNDAY MORNINGS JUST NORTH OF TYRONE MALL - UNTIL ONE SUNDAY I LEFT THE HOUSE AHEAD OF THEM AND WHEN I SLOWED FOR A SPEED BUMP THEY STARTED TO PASS ME - ON BOTH SIDES - A TWO LANE ROAD WITH A DOUBLE YELLOW LINE - I YELLED AND THEY BACKED OFF BUT JEEZ, FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE ROAD AND I'LL GIVE YOU YOUR 3 FT CLEARANCE.

[Adam]

QUOTE: "If vehicles have to slow to 15 to 20 MPH below the speed limit or move into oncoming traffic to get around you, then you don't belong on the road"

I'm sorry Mike, but I disagree with you here. The key is to share the road. I have as much legal right to it as you do. Is it so difficult for you to spare 30 seconds to slow and pass that you simply cannot bother to respect another person's rights? Bicycles are defined by law as vehicles, not "toys". Florida's three-foot rule requires drivers to give ample clearance for cyclists on the road. No one will fault you for crossing the yellow line. And frankly, I find your threat of making sure I "have a bad day" offensive.

QUOTE: "The big difference is that a driver who occasionally rolls through a stop has not planed when they set out on their journey to violate the law."

This arguement also makes no sense. Of course they do. Many people in their car have no intention of ever stopping at many stop signs. I merely need to stand in front of my home for 15 minutes and count them all roll through the intersection.

I think if everyone calmed down, began to respect each other's rights (including the rude packs) and learned to SHARE the road there would be no problems.

Then why not share the road with skateboarders, Adam? Why not allow people to stand in the road and fly a kite? It's a small inconvenience to go around them, right? And I'm soooo sure you bicyclists would be happy to share your bike trails with me, should I decide to take my SUV on a little off-road adventure. Would that be okay with you? Can we just "share" the bike trails? Bikes are "vehicles, right? Hot damn, so is my Explorer! So why shouldn't we all just share the Pinellas trail and be one big happy family? And why shut down roads for the Ironman competition? All those bikes are just vehicles, right? Why would they need their own lane? You're just not going to change my mind, Adam. I've had too many bad experiences with bike riders. I despise them, I don't think they belong on the road, and I will always be that guy who passes you 6 inches away with my horn blaring. I figure a "vehicle" can handle that.

[mike]

Then why not share the road with skateboarders, Adam? Why not allow people to stand in the road and fly a kite? It's a small inconvenience to go around them, right? And I'm soooo sure you bicyclists would be happy to share your bike trails with me, should I decide to take my SUV on a little off-road adventure. Would that be okay with you? Can we just "share" the bike trails? Bikes are "vehicles, right? Hot damn, so is my Explorer! So why shouldn't we all just share the Pinellas trail and be one big happy family? And why shut down roads for the Ironman competition? All those bikes are just vehicles, right? Why would they need their own lane? You're just not going to change my mind, Adam. I've had too many bad experiences with bike riders. I despise them, I don't think they belong on the road, and I will always be that guy who passes you 6 inches away with my horn blaring. I figure a "vehicle" can handle that.

[D R]

boy mike - got a problem with road rage I'll bet. The LAW say bikes are vehicles, not skate boards and kites, and the LAW says you must give them a 3 ft clearance. I'll bet you're a speeding red light runner.

[Jane]

I don't have a problem with the 3 foot law--for a SINGLE cyclist or SINGLE FILE LINE of cyclists. The problem, which people like Adam don't seem to udnderstand (I doubt I'm the only one who's figured out that Adam is a member of the pack) is that these cyclists are supposed to ride single file. Not 4-6 or more abreast. No one, not even another biker, or someone on a skateboard or pogo stick, can pass a group like that without going into oncoming traffic.
Adam, you people flaunt the law by going en mass through intersections. Yes, in a small group, no one would mind if 3-5 say cyclists followed a leader through an intersection. 40 is a different matter. It's law that I can't take my car through a light KNOWING I won't make it through. These pack leaders ROUTINELY glide through "stale" yellows and even obvious reds WITHOUT PAUSING. Yeah, we get a wave--not a friendly wave, a downward towards the pack wave which is basically the "pack cyclists' finger" to every other vehicle on the road.
Mark my words the next time a cyclist is hit on the road, Adam and co will be standing up bleating to reporters and police that "We ALWAYS follow the rules of the road and ALWAYS ride single file!"
Anyone who drives, bikes, walks or pogo-sticks around this city knows the truth, Adam. You don't care about sharing the road with anyone. The point about us all taking our cars for a spin on the Pinellas Trail is a good one. Imagine the shrieking! But then, the bikers on the trail are not clogging traffic on the roads, are they?

[D R]

THE LAW SAYS THAT IF YOU ARE PAST THE STOP BAR (THE WIDE WHITE LINE AT THE LIGHT THAT YOU CAR IS SUPPOSE TO STOP BEHIDE AT A RED LIGHT, NOT THE CROSSWALK WHERE SO MANY PEOLE STOP) WHEN THE LIGHT TURNS RED, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO FINISH YOU TRAVEL THROUGH THE INTERSECTION. THE LAW DOES NOT SAY THAT IF YOUR FRIENDS GO THROUGH THE INTERSECTION AHEAD OF YOU CAN GO THROUGH A RED LIGHT.

[Strategizer]

Schauer is a classic bonehead.