Here's The Aug. 21 Chat -- Read A Transcript

Does my little ditty in the paper this morning prove I'm a liberal who hates Republicans?

If so, why did I call state Sen. Ronda Storms, R-Brandon, "one of the best public officials there has been around here"?

For the answers and much more, check out the transcript of today's weekly live chat here on TroxBlog. Just click on the "Comments" link a few lines below to see what folks had to say, and to add your own comments after the fact.

Other topics that came up in today's chat include the status of the Jim Smith investigation in Pinellas, fallout from the approval of the Panhandle airport, whether voters have wised up to the failed "fixes" of Florida's property tax and insurance problems, the desalination plant, and there's even a volcano reference.

Thanks to everyone who took part or stopped by, and I hope to see you again at next week's chat!

Comments

[Howard Troxler]

Let's start with a comment pre-filed via e-mail about this morning's column:

It's a shame you hate republicans so much, reading your little ditty seems that you just had nothing to write about today. Since you are clearly a liberal why joke about populist Governor Crist's Green Commission which shows he is no conservative? -- Alan Setelius

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Alan S: Well, I just meant to write a jokey little column with a bunch of different one-liners; I am sorry that it made it look like I "hate Republicans so much,'' since I approach these things with good humor. True enough, I joked about the governor, the mayor and the U.S. attorney general, who are all Republicans. 'Course, I used to make fun of the governor when we had a Democrat, too... get elected governor or mayor, I am probably gonna joke about you at some point.

[Howard Troxler]

Here's one of several pre-filed comments on the Jim Smith land deal in Pinellas County:

Howard, it's been mighty quiet in Clearwater since the Grand Jury heard the evidence on good ole boy Jim Smith. How long do they usually wait hoping the public will forget about it before they issue their whitewash? Howard, I drove up and looked at that property, and I can tell you for absolute certain that the good citizens of Pinellas County have been fleeced. And at amazing speed. -- Larry

[Howard Troxler]

Larry, if memory serves, a grand jury exists for a certain number of days -- 180, I believe, unless that's for the feds -- and then either expires or can be extended by up to 90 days. It was just a couple weeks ago that the Pinellas grand jury heard from the various witnesses. I would imagine they are chewing on the records & testimony & this doesn't seem like an especially long time to me. If it drags out for months things will be different.

[Howard Troxler]

Another pre-filed Smith comment:

I love the way he is trying to lay it all back in the lap of those who helped him, and I para-phrase...I didn't ask for any favors, if they gave them to me it't their fault, get mad at them! LOVE IT! I'm sure this has been brought up before, but should he even be alowed to set the tax value on his own investment properties? -- Karen

[Howard Troxler]

Karen, seems to me like it takes two to tango. Smith pressed the county folks repeatedly, and they tripped over themselves to oblige. I thought this next pre-filed comment from 20/20 put it in perspective:

Setting the relative valuation for taxation purposes aside… the reality is, Jim Smith did nothing wrong. Don’t get me wrong, he isn’t clean, but he’s not the real problem. The real problem lay with Spratt and some of his staff, Churuti, and the rubber-stamp commission (7-0 unanimous approval). These are the truly guilty parties.

An elected official sought to sell his personal property to the very taxpayers within the county he’s elected in. Rather than a – perhaps inordinate slowing – of the process to assure public awareness and open government – not to mention assuring that all I’s were dotted and T’s were crossed… Spratt, Churuti, and county staff worked the back corridor (out of the Sunshine) going from Commissioner to Commissioner like lobbyists to secure a fast-track, unanimous approval rooted in an incestuous, political, and “Good Ol’ Boy” structure.

I don’t know about you folks… but I’m tired of seeing well-dressed, developer and big-business funded, consultant created, pompous, self-proclaimed government leaders standing behind their lawyers in front of the courthouse… on their way in to appear before a Grand Jury. It is time to pass on Party representatives, and elect qualified citizens to represent the taxpayer’s interests in Pinellas County… just as the founders of our Democratic process intended. It’s time to “really” clean house. -- 20/20

[Stephen]

Howard, in regards to politicians and how it seems corruption is rampant at all levels. Do you think it has always been as bad, or has technology helped catch them?

[John]

The destruction and devestation of the Florida landscape by greedy developers transcends party boundaries. I am so sick and tired of seeing my beautiful state carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey. The quality of life here is dropping as fast as more concrete is poured and water can be drained from wetlands. Speaking of water, we are at a crisis stage now. The only hope for Florida's sustainable future is passage of the Florida Hometown Democracy referendum. Thanks Howard for keeping this initiative in front of the people, please keep up the good work.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Stephen! My own opinion is that human nature is fairly constant, and there have always been people looking to take advantage of the way government works for private gain.

In some ways our modern system is "cleaner" than the past, with campaign contribution reporting, ethics rules and all that stuff.

But to me it's always an ongoing chess game -- there is no set of rules that can magically fix things forever. Money always finds a new way to get to government and to politicians; rules are not an end in themselves, but short-term weapons in a permament, unending struggle... (grin). Man, that sounds like of... dark, doesn't it?

[Howard Troxler]

John, thank you for the comment. This ties to my answer to Stephen's comment a little bit, the part about money always reaching politics. Local government in Florida often is elected by the money of folks who build things. There is a built-in bias in the system toward approving growth.

Any builder who has ever been hassled by a zoning department will disagree with that statement... but in the long run I think local government basically exists to "manage," e.g. approve growth.

[Stephen]

Howard thanks for the reply. I agree with you about human nature, but I'm young and idealistic. It is hard for me to comprehend how a politician can knowingly pass legislation that is not a benefit to the people they serve. Is there a fix? Term limits? Simplified legislation? What do you think?

[Howard Troxler]

Stephen, seems to me there is no fix that lasts -- again, rules are NOT an end in themselves, but have to change and evolve with conditions.

We have term limits in Florida for state office, passed in 1992. For sure, they have kept people from turning into old-time tyrants and kings in their office. A lot of bad guys have had to move on. On the other hand, we also have a younger and more inexperienced Legislature that seems to think nobody ever had a good idea before yesterday...

[Larry]

Howard, now that we know that taxes aren't going down nearly as much as predicted by the clowns in Tallahassee, and the first pass at crisis insurance rates was a bust, do you think the people of Florida are about fed up and will make some real changes the next time around?

[Howard Troxler]

Larry, the one-two non-"fix" of two of Florida's biggest problems, insurance and property taxes, seems to me to be foremost in the minds of a lot of Floridians. I think we're seeing it in folks' attitudes toward Gov. Crist; they like him personally but there's a streak of criticism that's building.

I don't know how this anger affects the Jan. 29 election on "super homestead." But if that fails, the Legislature will be right back in the spring having to do something about taxes, seems to me.

[Bob]

Good day, Howard. I have followed Jeff Testerman's work for a long time, having been "victimized" by him in the past. It has also been my experience that when Jeff starts paying attention, someone is gonna catch a headline. His recent investigative work on the Pinellas County Property Appraiser's adventures at the expense of the tapayers is only his latest victory for us all. While many folks accuse the press, in general, of being liberal and kow towing to socialism, I applaud the 4th estate's efforts to keep us all honest.

[Patricia Lee-Lucardie]

H is for Howard, a man most hirsute,

O is for Orlon, a part of his suit,

W for Wicked, a side I enjoy,

A is for Able, a most qualified boy,

R is for Reads well, both Howard and me,

D for daredevil, a good way to be.

T is for Trusty, we know he speaks truth,

R is for Righteousness, much like Dan Ruth,

O is for Offend, sometimes you must do,

X is for ‘Xplain’, he walks us all through,

L is for Laughter, he makes my day bright,

E is for Earnest, stands tough in a fight, and

R for Reporter, synonymous with right!

You're the best, Howard! Keep writing.

Regards,

Patricia Lee-Lucardie

Tampa, Florida

[(Mr) Bill]

Hear, hear to John's comment! Howard, you've helped me appreciate how the local-government game is semi-rigged to favor unsustainable development. Why doesn't the Army Corps of Engineers do more, though? Is the Corps run by political appointees?

Unlike Stephen, I'm neither young nor idealistic, and I no longer expect officials to act in the public welfare or according to local communities' wishes. Even so, the Panama City airport thing just floors me. It's not even two years since Katrina made us aware of how wetland destruction costs billions of dollars and thousands of lives. How can the Army Corps possibly approve that project?!

[Howard Troxler]

Bob, I am a huge Jeff Testerman fan and he has done much excellent work over the years. In this specific case, I am not sure that he worked on the Pinellas stories, which were written mainly by staffers Will Van Sant and Theresa Blackwell, to my memory. (On the other hand, Jeff DID just have another interesting article about the Hillsborough elections supervisor, Buddy Johnson).

On the broader point, ideology & national politics are where folks like to argue, but I always figured newspapers mattered the most in covering the governor, the Legislature, the mayor, the City Council, the School Board... and if there is any saving of newspapers it is that Google ain't figured out how to do it yet, and will NEVER cover ANYTHING at any level of depth....

[Howard Troxler]

(Mr) Bill, the other day I took a resolution to learn more about the Army Corps of Engineers, which has played such an important role in so many Florida developments... you run across 'em all the time. I don't even know the legal basis of their authority or under what criteria the corps operates! But they always seem to be approving... they played in a big role in the newspaper's series of articles about vanishing wetlands in Florida.

[Howard Troxler]

The space shuttle just landed safely.

[Howard Troxler]

Now, as for that poem, I had better not saying anything except, well, thanks...

[Howard Troxler]

It's a little past 12:30, and there's plenty of time left in today's chat -- feel free to bring up a new topic!

[John]

On the subject of the Corps of Engineers, do you know of any development permits they have turned down? Seems to me they bend over backwards to allow as much devestation, I mean development, as they can.

[Howard Troxler]

John, I believe the first installment of our big wetlands investigation was subtitled, "They Won't Say No." It said regulators basically are overwhelmed.

Check it out at your leisure:

www.sptimes.com/wetlands

[Howard Troxler]

Here's a reader's letter:

Instead of daily assassinations on Jim Smith, why aren't you and the Times all over Gov. Crist and his lack of fulfilling campaign promises: property tax & insurance.

Now Crist is having a "glamor shot" on "green." Our state is in a crisis! Make Crist & Sink keep their political promises. -- M. Edna, Pinellas

[Howard Troxler]

Dear M.E.: I would politely protest that we have written right much about the ineffectiveness of the state's "fix" of the insurance and tax problems. And last week I had a column criticizing Crist & Sink for lack of leadership... but if you don't think we've had enough, heck...

[Larry]

Howard, the DeSal Plant. The next deadline is in October. Anybody wagering? I was startled to read the chronology in the TBT this morning. Those folks in water managerment are just throwing our money away. But then again it comes so easily. When will they throw in the towel?

[(Mr) Bill]

Thanks, Howard. I look forward to reading what you'll have to say about the Army Corps in future columns and blogs.

On a kind of related note....Over the weekend, my wife and I celebrated our anniversary by taking a short jaunt up to the Suwannee River. On the way there, we visited a 907-year-old cypress tree called the Goethe Giant that lives in the Goethe State Forest in Levy County. What an amazing living specimen. I thank the good Lord that the good Mr. Goethe sold his land under Florida's Conservation and Recreation Lands Program. Does anyone know anything about this program?

[Howard Troxler]

Desal plant: How many years ago did I tour that place with them assuring me it would be ready in a few months? Good grief.

Tampa Bay Water is an unelected board of elected officials. In other words, each person on the board has been elected by his or her city or county as a commissioner, city council member, whatever.

But collectively, the board is beyond the reach of the voters, and largely beholden to a staff that is even more beyond the reach of the voters.

And if you can't be fired....

Incidentally, you know who I liked on the Tampa Bay Water board? Ronda Storms, then a Hillsborough commissioner, now a state senator. Entirely unwilling to go with the flow and filled with questions.

[Howard Troxler]

We've had the CARL program (conservation and recreational lands) since at least the early '80s... dates to the Bob Graham as governor years I think.

For Pete's sake, don't tell the St. Joe Co. about that tree....

[Steven]

Are you interested in a story about a local attorney that stole over $400,000 from an estate and is still running around loose and free to do this to others?

[(Mr) Bill]

You're right about not telling St. Joe about the Goethe Giant. You have my permission to delete my posting from the archive of today's live chat.

For all its faults, New Jersey has a pretty good farmland preservation program going. Does CARL cover farmland and if not, is there any other state initiative to preserve farms (maybe ranches, too)?

Was it an intentional pun when you said that Ronda Storms was "unwilling to go with the flow" while on the Tampa Bay Water board?

[Patricia Lee-Lucardie]

Please tell me that your comment regarding Ronda Storms is one of your light-hearted comments - please!

Ronda Storms is totally unwilling to go with the flow, as you state. Unfortunately, her flow is filled with hate rhetoric, narrow-mindedness, and downright nastiness.

I wept when she was elected to her current position. I can only attribute it to the so-called Christian vote - which by the way, is hardly Christian.

[Jennifer W]

Hi there, did anyone else get their Citizens bill recently? We got ours yesterday and read through it just for kicks. Did you know that Citizens covers damages due to a volcanic eruption? Didn't know we had that in Florida.

[Howard Troxler]

Steven, personally I am probably not, but I will be happy to take your info and give it to our reporters and editors. Send it to troxblog@tampabay.com.

If I sound cautious, it's because the "an estate lawyer is a crook" story is about as common as "the judge in my divorce case is a crook" story and the "my condo association is run by crooks" story, and it's hard to find out -- and prove -- that it's really the case.

Having said that, one of our writers won a Pulitzer Prize a few years ago for showing exactly how terrible Florida's system is... as I said, send the info to me and I will put in the hands of our editors and reporters.

[Howard Troxler]

Jennifer -- volcanic eruption! -- well, you never know, I suppose...

Patricia: (1) Thanks for the poem and (2) No, I mean it. Storms has always been interesting to me because of her dual nature. On social issues, she seems to me to be quite punitive and intolerant and even hateful. But on budget and spending issues, she is one of the best public officials there has been around here.

Dang! Isn't it tougher when people are both good and bad, and hard to pigeonhole!

[Howard Troxler]

To quote the late Scooter, holy cow! It's already after 1 p.m. ... let me hold the phone for a couple of minutes to see if anybody has anything to add...

[Steven]

No need to prove it, the attorney admits the theft. The Fla Bar and the STPD have spent 6 months with the evidence and the guys still out there.
Who do I contact? Thanks

[Howard Troxler]

All right! I sense lunch in the immediate future.

Steven: As I said, e-mail me and I'll put it in the right hands.

Thanks to everyone who stopped by and who took part in today's live chat! As always, I'll leave the comments open so folks can add things afterward.

I hope to see you next Tuesday...

[JonnyAnonny]

Hey, Howard -- would you be willing to give us the general sense in the newsroom about the upcoming presidential election? I thought Mr. Gailey's piece this weekend on Edwards was hard (caveat: I'm an Edwards guy). Also, are there any bets being made on what happens with Bob Allen?
Thanks.

[Howard Troxler]

Lunchtime, Jonny! Let's make that the leadoff question for next week...

[20/20]

Howard,

Sorry for the late weigh-in... I agree with you about Storms on the TBW Board. However, a major road block to reasonable and relevant dialogue on the TBW Board is that, not one of the Board members are knowledgeable on the issues of water resource and management – beyond staff briefings.

I was involved in the whole fiasco that brought about TBW, and spoke against its creation, its assuming and governing power over the resource and facilities. Many “real” experts advised against it, advised that the drought was cyclical, the rains would return and replenish the resource, said the cost would be twice as much as promised, would never produce what was promised, water rate would double and even triple, we would not be able to properly balance the blend (see Pinellas’ new blending facility), and the answer is proper conservation and resource management. To no avail.

And here we sit… exactly where the experts said we’d be. It saddens me to say, but the bottom line is arrogant politicians in bed with big business and developers. If you recall… the paper was filled almost daily in 2000 with stories of the drought, including photos of bovine remains lying in a desert. We were constantly bombarded with “We’ll dry up and die if we don’t buy into the TBW Master Plan”. You may also recall the increased scrutiny of development versus resource availability at the same time. Once everything was approved, not another word about drought, and the pace of development doubled. Kind of like the barrage of “Be vigilant and imminent attack” propaganda leading up to the 2004 elections. Once the election was over, not another word.

I’m not one for the whole black helicopter thing, but we need to wake up and pay less attention to perception and more attention to reality.

[JonnyAnonny]

Thanks, Howard -- I hear the chow bell ringing now!

[Karen]

Well said 20/20. As Howard has said, rules and laws aren't the answer. We the people have to be on constant watch. Making our elected officals explain themselves at every turn (or vote)if nessecary. Keeping tabs on those that spend our money has to become more important to everyday people than watching tv (yeah, I know, I'm dreaming). It's alot more work, but come on, if no one says anything, well it's so easy to spend someone elses money.