Here's The Sept. 18 Chat -- Read A Transcript

[Click on the "Comments" link of this announcement to see what folks had to say in today's weekly online chat here on TroxBlog. The live portion of the chat is finished, but you can still add comments to the end of the list.]

Hello and welcome to this weekly's live online chat here on TroxBlog. For the next hour or so we'll be talking about current events in Florida and the Tampa Bay area. So, what do you feel like talking about? For starters, there's a touch of relief in the air today, and the Bucs won on Sunday... but of course there are Serious Things to discuss as well.

Come join me on the comments page...

Comments

[Howard Troxler]

We have some "pre-filed" comments posted to the earlier chat announcement, so I'll start with this one from Larry about the property-tax situation:

Howard, the governor was trotting around Tampa yesterday "whipping up" support for the new super homestead exemption. For anyone who has been in their home more than five years, it just does not make sense. It is the real estate frenzy that has occurred over the past five years and is now unraveling, that has spawned the outrage. The buyers and sellers did it to themselves. This super homestead, the voters will discover, is anything but super after we get down the road a few years and the distinguished and oh so credible property appraiser raises the value of their property to whatever they need it to be to feed the hogs at the public trough. Give me the 3% CAP and in the constitution any day. That is the only way to keep a lid on it. I believe the amendment will fail and then the politicians in Tallahassee will pat themselves on the back and say "I tried to give them a tax cut but those pesky taxpayers said they didn't want one." Ain't it great in the sunshine state? -- Larry

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Larry: You're right that for some homeowners, the "super homestead" exemption would not be such a good deal in a few years. How soon it turns into a bad deal depends on how much property values rise.

BUT it WOULD be a good deal for some folks in the intermediate term. Say, someone who knows they will be living in a home 3-5 years. Also, it does provide some short-term help when folks buy a bigger house, since they can opt for the bigger exemption as well.

As you say, lots of folks will still prefer the 3 pct Save Our Homes cap under the old rules -- and they'll have that option, since everyone can decide whether to keep the old or new rules.

That is, IF it passes on Jan. 29. You also point out some pols won't be unhappy to see it fail. I think that's right -- but on both ends of the spectrum, some because they want MORE tax cuts, such as House Speaker Rubio (see this morning's paper) and some just as you say.

[Howard Troxler]

Here's a pre-filed comment from Lucia:

I heard that the companies selling voting machines are coming to the Elections Office to pitch their equipment on Sept. 25th. Everybody needs to go to ask good questions so we don't get stuck with another $15-million boondoggle like the touch-screens we voters are still paying for. Of course it's when working people can't go, but those who can should go. -- Lucia

[Paladin]

Today is the big day as you remember Howard.. Sept 18, 2001 from St. Petersburg, Fl

[Howard Troxler]

Yep, Lucia, thanks for pointing it out! I have an e-mail from the Elections Office announcing the presentations. Here's the press release:

Pinellas County Supervisor of Elections Deborah Clark invites all Pinellas County citizens to an Open House on Tuesday, September 25 to view demonstrations by four voting system vendors. Pinellas County will need to purchase a new voting system because House Bill 537 requires all Florida counties to use optical scan voting systems with paper ballots for all elections, effective July 2008.

“We hope our voters will come take a look at the different optical scan systems,” Clark said. “This will help prepare them for the paper ballot voting process they will be using, beginning with the 2008 Primary Election.”

Vendors will make continuous presentations from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m., and from 2:30 to 4:30 p.m. at the Election Service Center, 13001 Starkey Road in Largo. No presentations will be given from 1 to 2:30 p.m.

[Howard Troxler]

Paladin, would you like to tell folks what you are talking about, to remove the mystery?

[Howard Troxler]

From Boo Boo:

Hi Howard
Just to let you know. Seems some smut peddler has hijacked the "It's your times forums". I hope there is way to stop this person. I like many of your readers use that as a sounding board and ideas exchange. We shouldn't have to put up with vulgar or tastesless shenanigans. I did report it to the number listed on the site.Boo Boo

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Boo Boo: I'll pass it on, thanks!

Howard -- many of us have followed along with you when you complain about governments campaigning for this thing or that... have you gotten as exercised about Crist and Rubio flogging their doomed tax plan? Or have I just missed it?

[Schauer]

Howard,
Two questions.
1.) With Alex Sink pushing for PIP in a special secession do you get the feeling that it is heading for a partisan divide?
2) Will the slot debate have any spill-over to the Hard Rock in Tampa?

[Howard Troxler]

Hey, 12:13, thanks for the post! At least Crist has formed a private group to run his campaign. I am sure they have expended SOME state resources just by walking around, but not explicitly so.

Couple years ago the state House for instance committted $50,000 to try to block a citizen petition. Pretty overt. As for gov't officials just givin' speeches and stuff on what they think should pass, bothers me less -- what do you think?

[Howard Troxler]

Schauer, howdy!

(1) I don't think the PIP issue is partisan especially. Crist, Sink et al urging action. The divide is somewhat between House and Senate, but mostly involving the various interest groups. Lawyers? Like the end of no-fault. Chiros? Want to keep it, but don't want any fraud reform. Etc.

(2) I thought the gambling issue covered ALL facilities including the one here -- I'll double-check. In fact I have been meaning for some time to learn more about this whole gambling issue, including exactly what the gov HAS to do, whether the Legislature SHOULD get a say -- and overall whether it's good for Florida. Got stacks of background material and just need to read it.

[Howard Troxler]

Here's an anonymous pre-filed comment, which I'll put up since it doesn't libel anybody:

Now is the time for the annual Coerce State Employees Campaign. Not only are they distributing the forms and suggesting amounts - anyone who doesn't turn in a form or a form with an appropriate amount is being scheduled for a "discussion" with the Deputy Division Director who has been assigned this task. The same person who is making recommendations for personnel cuts.

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Anonymous: Are you talking about United Way, a specific charity, or what? I will tell you that I have a DEEP prejudice against coerced giving campaigns in the workplace, and to this day I bear the resentment of what I was put through as a young employee. So feel free to tell us a little more.

[12:13]

I believe that what you're really talking about is a question of civic engagement and governmental communications. Frankly, my strong preference is for government officials to hit the trail, so to speak, and tell us as much about a thing as they possible can -- and then tell us some more. Even if I disagree with them (as I do the Crist and Rubio tax plan), I'd rather know totally where they're coming from and hear about it over and over than have them cut a deal in the back room and not know about it until it's too late.

Believe me, I realize I'm in the small, small minority on that one.

Of course, I do recognize that there is a line. Government entities overtly campaigning for (or against) something (ie, "Vote no!" or "Vote yes!") seems a touch over the top. Like your $50,000 example.

Ultimately, of course, it comes down to civic engagement. If we were a politicall engaged populace, you might not necessarily *need* such overt campaigning.

[Larry]

Howard, what about the insurance crisis that no one pays any attention to any longer. The state now sells reinsurance to the big insurance companies at a cheaper rate than they could get in the market and the premiums of the good citizens of Florida did not go down, as expected, but went up as usual. Now Floridians are on the hook for all that cheaper re-insurance as well as paying higher premiums to boot. It seems pretty clear that no one is going to offer any help for Floridians as we continue to shell out more and more for homeowner's (with wind) insurance. Did you see the article in last week's business section about the private market taking the risk, but albeit through free-market floating premiums. It looks like if you're going to live in Florida, you're going to bear the risk of hurricanes through higher and higher premiums. Too wordy, I know.

[Howard Troxler]

12:13, that is well said. Maybe we agree that there is a "crossing the line" test where the gov't is explicitly spending money to influence the outcome of an election, open advocacy of a no or yes vote.

At the other end, I do not expect 'em to sit there mute -- in fact I agree our political leaders ought to be saying how they think things ought to go.

In the middle there is a gray area of how much the gov't should be trying to influence elections. We will see before January, for example, all kinds of information from local gov't in Fla on how bad it will be if the voters pass this "super homestead" exemption.

[Jonny Anonny]

Hi, Howard -- Any ideas and/or insight into what's going on the chopping block for special session? I saw Crist's recommendations, but hadn't heard much else.

[Howard Troxler]

Larry, thanks for the insurance comment -- yr right it has gotten LESS attention than the tax issue lately, but has not been forgotten. I do give credit to the state Office of Insurance Regulation for keeping the heat on the various companies that have been filing big rate HIKES, despite the reinsurance thing you mention.

Basically, the "fix" passed by the Legislature in January did not work. The idea of kicking in the state's catastrophic fund earlier did not bring about the large rate reductions that the Legislature hoped for. It was a carrot -- but not much stick.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Jonny Anonny! Oh, man, what a tough mess that is going to be. I confess to you I have not looked closely at the Crist recommendations yet. I have a certain bias against the automatic cuts he wants to impose on the university system. But I don't wanna be just one more whiny "Don't cut this, cut something else'' guy. Education and social services take up so much of the budget, hard to make that big a whack without them.

[Howard Troxler]

Hey, Boo Boo, are you around by any chance? I went to It's Your Times and do not see anything amiss on the surface. If a link has been hijacked, can you tell me more specifically which one?

[Howard Troxler]

Regular reader 20/20 takes me to task for my comments on an earlier post (the post headlined "The Last Word") where I seem to be letting Pinellas Commissioner Karen Seel off the hook in the Jim Smith land deal:

I find your comments on Commissioner Seel to be quite interesting, in fact, somewhat perplexing. Given the recent events, I’m curious as to why you feel that she, in particular – perhaps – deserves a pass.

Is it your assertion that the Smith situation was a one-time occurrence?

Is it “likeability” over “accountability”?

[(Mr) Bill]

Hi, Howard et al. A follow-up to Larry's comment: If the Legislature does nothing further on property insurance, how large do you think the issue will loom in next year's election? Will we homeowners just sulk and growl and reelect most of the incumbents who didn't solve the problem?

[Larry]

School choice or close to home? Do you feel that the school board and Supt. Wilcox will reach agreement on a plan to get back to neighborhood schools in spite of the re-segregation issue that is bound to arise in Pinellas County? How can they ensure diversity without choice and bussing when the population of the county is so racially segregated. This is especially so in St. Petersburg.

[Howard Troxler]

Reply to 20/20:

20/20, you might have me pinned down on this one. I DO like her. She has been the best of the lot in many ways. She cares, listens to citziens, etc. But as I have said many times, when the moment of truth came on the Smith deal, she sat right there with the rest of them and approved it. so the voters absolutely are entitled to hold her accountable.

The previous discussion, by the way, was in the context of whether we should automatically decide NOT to re-elect a public official -- or whether it ought to depend on the quality of the challenger --

[Jonny Anonny]

(Mr) Bill -- I predict it'll be one of the biggest issues, if not *the* biggest issue in the election next year! Remember, property insurance was the Big Huge Deal before it was tax reform.

Howard -- I confess, I'm trying to see if you, like others, go for the "just cut the fat" argument. As a friend of mine said, "there's no line item for 'fat' in government budgets."

[Howard Troxler]

(Mr) Bill, I think that insurance WILL be an issue and I hope that plenty of people make sure that it is. If they don't do anything beyond what they did last January then they deserve it, too.

Seems to me there is a widespread understanding by the voters that insurance rates have not "dropped like a rock." There's a lot of shared resentment with the property tax issue.

[Howard Troxler]

Jonny: Well, even if we COULD magically identify the "fat" in the budget (one person's fat is another's vital service) -- we're not talking about that as much as across-the-board cuts. Kind of like cutting off parts of one's body to lose weight instead of eating better and exercisin', don't you know.

[Howard Troxler]

On Larry's comments about the public schools -- I have to tell you, the issue of "re-segregation" is WAY over and decided, unanimously by all parties to be a non-issue. Only grumpy old guys like me, mindful of the 1950s Brown legacy (separate is inherently unequal) worries about this in the long term. In the short term, parents of all races are enthusiastic about schools closest to home.

It was interesting to me, during all the initial switch to school choice, to see the divide in the audience -- not between black and white, but between old de-seggers like me, and the generation of civil-rights leaders who had WON those court battles back in 1970, versus the young parents who didn't give a flip for ideals if it meant suffering for their kid.

Howard -- Have you had your eye on the State House race in HD 55 (Peterman's seat)? Any favorites? And what is next for Mr. Peterman?

[Howard Troxler]

Plenty of time to bring up other topics -- if you've been watching and thinking about whether to chime in, feel free!

Any word on who is lined up to take Spratt's old job?

[Howard Troxler]

Say, isn't St. Pete council member Earnest Williams running for that seat? If I remember right he was going to run before, but caught some flak for seeming too ambitious before his last council election.

I am ignorant so far of who else is running...

Where do the Democrats stand on their primary? The last I heard, there was talk of a caucus, not a primary, then something about moving it altogether. What's the deal? And is it bad for them?

Where do the Democrats stand on their primary? The last I heard, there was talk of a caucus, not a primary, then something about moving it altogether. What's the deal? And is it bad for them?

[Howard Troxler]

12:51 For a permament replacement, surely they would conduct an extensive search. I think we will have an item tomorrow about possible interims.

One is Mark Woodward, asst county admin under Spratt (and, not that we should identify people by their spouses, husband of Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio).

Several folks here thought the "Mark" who was giving me a hard time over the Times coverage of the Smith scandal was this Mark, but I am pretty sure he wasn't... first of all, the TroxBlog "Mark" was pretty clearly a land-use lawyer, which M.W. is not, and secondly, a guy married to Pam and an assistant to Spratt has got to be a lot more circumspect than that.

[Howard Troxler]

Hey, thanks to the Buzz for helping out my ailing memory. Here's the Dist 55 info:

St. Pete City Council member Earnest Williams called The Buzz today to say what we've known all along: He's running for the state House. Williams, a Democrat, is running in District 55 - the seat being vacated by state Rep. Frank Peterman. Williams is the second Democrat to formally announce his intentions, joining activist Charles McKenzie. Local publisher Gypsy Gallardo is expected to run as well.

Darryl Rouson, the former local NAACP president who's considering a run, is likely the GOP's only shot at winning this decidely Democratic stronghold.

[Larry]

Howard, on Governor Crist; compared to the initial enthusiasm, do you feel he has been effective in his position. I do not. Nothing he's said has happened. But he continues to flash that smile to the public. Maybe it is an impossible task to lower insurance rates in Florida. As far as lower taxes, that's all riding on the ballot on January 29th, and 60%, which the voters mandated as necessary to approve constitutional amendments, is a high hurdle. What has Mr. Crist really done for the people of Florida since he took office.

[Howard Troxler]

On the Democrats, looks like some kind of mechanism for awarding delegates after the primary such as caucuses, etc. -- in a way, I suppose this is a caving-in to the national party. Or else just making the best of a bad situation.

Bad for Florida? I dunno. It probably means less emphasis on the Democratic primary, and fewer candidates blanketing the state. I am cranky and old enough to think that might be a GOOD thing... already a little weary of the various Rs who won't leave us alone.

[Howard Troxler]

Larry, Crist's weakness has been shown on these two big issues, insurance and taxes -- his preference for the quick fix, the slogan, the big promise. Not effective.

But he has has a thousand little positive effects, too, and the opposite of Jeb in many ways. Despite the bad pub over his wildlife appointments, he basically cowed them the other day into delaying the manatee vote. He's made gov't more open and responsive. He made some inspired picks to run tough agencies such as Bob Butterworth at DCF.. many different entries on the ledger.

[Jonny Anonny]

...but would you say the verdict is still out on Crist in terms of how he'll been seen in a year or two years, or more, even?

[Martha Sherlock]

Howard, I have been a fan of your column since my friend said you were the best columnist at the times. Are you interested in the upcoming Belleair Town Comission meeting regarding the redevelopment of the Belleview Biltmore to preserve its history? It was put on the National Historic Register because of my late husband's efforts to preserve it. Now the comission apparently wants to add a lot of fees to the developer to make up for their lack of tax revenue. They had no trouble giving permission for the former developer to change the entire entranceway to a Japanese motif. I would like to preserve this group of buildings without which the town of Belleair would not even exist. It is unfair to put all their tax loss recoup on one developer who just wants to do the right thing and preserve the heritage.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Martha Sherlock, and thank you for the comment and the kind word. I'll take a look at what we have had about this fee issue in the paper...

[Howard Troxler]

Hey, it's just past 1 p.m.... is anybody dying to bring up a topic before we end the live portion of our chat?

[Howard Troxler]

Jonny Anonny, safe to say the verdict is still out? Heck, as a history student, I think the verdict is still out on the past 75 years, so... :)

[Howard Troxler]

Hmm, somehow my "end of chat" message didn't get posted. I just wanted to say, thanks to everyone who came by and took part in today's chat, and I hope to see you again...

As always, comments remain open for anyone who wants to add anything. See you at noon next Tuesday!

[20/20]

Howard,

I didn’t mean to imply that you were giving her a “total” pass, and I thank you for the candid response. To your point, “…voters absolutely are entitled to hold her accountable”, that is indeed the bottom line. I also like her, but feel strongly that change is needed for many reasons. Your comment took me by surprise is all… nothing more than sincere curiosity.

BTW, didn’t Ernest Williams promise during his last campaign, that he would not run for 55?… ooops, silly me for believing that.

[Boo Boo]

I just went there also there was the regular forum back up and running. I called eairler and that must have done the trick. This is the 2nd time I have seen this person do this. But all seems to well and in balance in the universe now.

[darren]

pinellas county total FY 08 budget request = 2,022,745,330; FY 07 budget = 1,986,522,700...thes #'s are directly from the county web site....whats up with this, i thought they were cutting this and cutting that...to me it looks like they are spending almost 40 million more than last year.....

[Rickster in Gulfport]

I would like your take on the tactics used by UofF police on the student at the John Kerry event.

I think police are way to ready to use that taser, and they enjoy using it.

I have seen the training films and you can see when each of the officers is zapped, the officers in the background take great pleasure in their pain.

I imagine sadism is a trait that Police Depts look for.

Do you think they went to far?

[BillyBob]

I say jolt the freak... if you run low on power for your taser, just give me a call... me an my boys will be there in 15-minutes with our pick 'em up tucks... gerneators a' blazen!

Yeeeeeee haaaaaaaa... zap the hippie!

[Karen]

Even Kerry thought it was unneccesary, and kept asking that the police stop and let him answer the question. I've watched it over and over and can't see that he did anything wrong but be persistant in asking his question. And police wonder why the average joe is afraid of them.

[Booger]

When a police officer asks you to stop, then asks you to leave – then – when you fail to comply and the officer attempts to remove you (which, after your non-compliance is completely appropriate)… and you physically resist… you are no longer just “persistent in asking his question”… you are resisting directives given by a person WITH the authority to give such a directive.

Dismissing this behavior as one’s right, or asserting that the resistor is doing nothing wrong… is exactly why today’s youth no longer respects authority, why political correctness is ruining our country – and – why juvenile crime rates are climbing at disturbing rates.

[darren]

booger, i couldn't have said it any better.......it is clearly obvious and plain as day that the UF student was resisting arrest and not listening to the police...his alloted time to speak was over, they gave him extra time twice...then they asked him nicely to stop talking, then they cut his mic and he was still causing a commotion, then he resisted arrest with physical force against two police offers....how in the world Karen can watch the video "over and over" and not see anything wrong is perplexing to say the least.....and noone is even talking about the stupid question he was asking....and he was asking the question as if he were perry mason, john kerry was a member of skull and bones or whatever its called...who even cares....the way that kid was running around screaming he is not dealing with a full deck

[Kay]

The kid was wrong in that he did not do as directed. BUT he was unarmed and was not physically attacking anyone.
I feel that the taser should only be used as an alternative to lethal force. Many people have had fatal reactions to the taser and it should never be over used.
If they did not have a taser would they have used their gun? If the answer is no, then the taser should never have been applied.

[Kay]

The kid was wrong in that he did not do as directed. BUT he was unarmed and was not physically attacking anyone.
I feel that the taser should only be used as an alternative to lethal force. Many people have had fatal reactions to the taser and it should never be over used.
If they did not have a taser would they have used their gun? If the answer is no, then the taser should never have been applied.