Here's the Dec. 11 chat -- read the transcript

Hello, happy Tuesday, and welcome to the transcript of the weekly live chat held earlier today here on TroxBlog. As has been the case lately, most of the questions and comments dealt with the proposed baseball stadium in St. Petersburg.

To read the transcript of today's chat, click on the "Comments" link of this announcement, just a few lines below. You'll see a page with what's been said already, and a form for you to add your own comment. Keep refreshing the comments page to see the latest.

Here's a program note: There will be no live chat on Dec. 18, and the following two Tuesdays are holidays, so we'll pick up our weekly chats in January 2008. But I'll still be here on TroxBlog for the rest of this month, making daily posts and reading and answering reader comments.

Comments

[Howard Troxler]

Let's start today's chat with a pre-filed question about the baseball stadium in St. Pete:

If the City agrees to the Rays proposal, similarly to what was requested utilizing tax money, do you
think the voters will agree to it? Will the Times Editorial Staff support it? I know that puts you on the spot, but you may have a better understanding for what these folks are thinking than I do. -- Bland

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Bland. I think the voters could be persuaded if there were reasonable protections in the deal. I think those protections absolutely have to include (1) the public never, ever being liable for the owners' $150-million worth of debt for "their" 1/3 share and (2) the public never being on the hook to make up any shortfalls in the development of the Tropicana Field site.

If we ARE dangerously on the hook, I would think there would be enough skepticism to defeat it -- any
open-ended deal that says, "Golly, gee, you suckers will have to raise taxes to pay this off if Mr. Wonderful Master Developer skips town."

Re: our editorial page: I am friends with those folks, but do not work for them or with them. My column runs in the news section and I don't take part in their decision-making -- in fact, we often have different takes on current events. I wouldn't predict their thinking so many months in advance, with so many variables undefined.

[Howard Troxler]

Another pre-filed baseball question:

Isn’t the Tropicana site owned by Pinellas County taxpayers, and therefore require a countywide vote for
its involvement in this plan? -- Miller

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Miller: The Tropicana site is owned by Pinellas County, but that is sort of a technicality and a fiction. The city transferred ownership to the county so that it would not be subject to property taxes. Under the terms of that transfer, as I understand it, the instant that baseball is no longer played there, ownership reverts to the city. This would not require a countywide election. The only election required would be among city voters, to approve the lease of the new waterfront site.

[ken]

Good afternoon! Just a comment on a smaller development issue. Tierra Verde residents have been opposing plans for using a local marina to host gambling boat shuttle craft. The latest twist is that the marina owners have now approached the City to annex the marina in a bid to get around the opposition. This does not completely surprise me after watching the doings with the Tropicana Dome. It does make me wonder who in the City government encourages this sort of craziness.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Ken! May I ask, how would annexing the marina get around the opposition, one way or the other?

[ken]

Howard,

As I understand it, the issue one of which government entity has authority to decide on zoning and rezoning issues: the county; potentially the city; the state, or the residents. Apparently, the thinking is that the City might be more favorably inclined to this venture.

[Ron]

Howard, In your anser to Bland, I think you need to add:

3) There is a concrete plan to pay off the existing debt service on Tropicana field without the use of taxpayers money.

[JOHN]

Didn't the city of Atlanta have a contract with the Braves whereby the city would own the team if the debt obligations on the new stadium were not met? If so,would some agreement along these lines work in obtaining a new stadium. The franchise could be sold to make up the shortfall.

[Howard Troxler]

Ken, I see, venue-shopping... in which case the citizens would have to re-direct their focus to the city gov't.

Hi Ron! You mean, make the owners also pay off the debt on Tropicana Field? I might modify that and say, pay off whatever's left at the time the new baseball stadium opened...

[Howard Troxler]

Here's another one about baseball:

I found [City Council chair]Jamie Bennett’s comment regarding the Ray’s timeline to be quite interesting. To wit: "We don't have much of a choice," Bennett said. The city "is working with the time frame the Rays gave us." Mind you, I like Mr. Bennett, but his comment seemed to almost imply that a threat exists within this plan. As if perhaps there were negative ramifications if the Rays’ timeline isn’t met. Any insight on this, or are we talking semantics? -- 20/20

[Howard Troxler]

Hi 20/20! It sounded to me like a casual phrasing on his part, to be taken at face value -- I don't think
there are any hidden ultimatums, simply that this is a reasonable schedule IF we want to put the question to the voters in Novemeber 2008. The Rays insist that if it doesn't get approved, they will happily stay at the Trop but they will raise the issue again a few years down the road.

[Howard Troxler]

John, I am ignorant of the set-up in Atlanta or whether there are any restrictions on public ownership of an MLB franchise...

[Howard Troxler]

Here's a comment via e-mail, about today's column ("Ladder, husband: What can go wrong?")

Granted your picture has you looking like someone mechanically disinclined, but I have always thought better of you. A whole column on bumblness? C'mon. Lighten up. Let's go back to the problems in St. Pete, Pinellas County, the State, the US, THE WORLD! -- Cheers, Roger Gulbransen

[Ken]

Howard, one additional comment on the Rays stadium. I am from Columbus Ohio where I still live part of the year in exile from the Bay area. Several years ago, the City was given an NHL franchise. Team owners, who are locals, asked for a tax increase to pay for a stadium lest the franchise be lost. The tax was turned down but lo and behold private monies were still found for the statium, albiet with sales and property tax abatement issues that still remain unresolved. The good thing was that the owners were local, the stadium was constructed on their dime, the stadium is nice, and owner investment in the City makes it unlikely the team will move.

[Ghost of Banquo]

Your comments on teaching creation science, evolution, etc. were spot on with one exception. Folks on the creationist side would not allow even the small amount of interpretation you suggest. There are thousands out there who are trying to put the fun back in fundamental by interpreting the Bible literally. I was once told by (a professor no less) that those bumper stickers you sometimes see that read
"God Said it.
I believe it.
That settles it."

Has too many steps.

I'd suggest adding "Inherit the Wind" and "Summer for the Gods" to the required reading list for junior high English. Let the argument roll on outside of the science classroom.

[Liz]

Really enjoyed your column about the ladder incident! Brought back fond memories of my husband and his ladder fiasco. He was up on the roof doing some work and when he went to get down he found his ladder had fallen to the ground! He was stranded on the roof until a neighbor noticed him up there and kindly put the ladder back!
Glad you weren't seriously hurt.

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Banquo's Ghost: Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I do not mind at all pointing out in a comparative-belief section what different folks believe about how the world came into existence.

I definitely would be opposed to anything that flew in the face of actual fact and science... but as I keep saying, I really do not see where a creation or ID belief conflicts with what has occurred in evolution!

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Liz! You wouldn't believe how many ladder stories I have heard today! Some of them more serious than others.... most of them just funny. I am glad mine ended up more funny than serious.

[Howard Troxler]

Repeating earlier comment about today's column, and adding my answer:

Granted your picture has you looking like someone mechanically disinclined, but I have always thought better of you. A whole column on bumblness? C'mon. Lighten up. Let's go back to the problems in St. Pete, Pinellas County, the State, the US, THE WORLD! -- Cheers, Roger Gulbransen

Dear Roger Gulbransen: Well, I am glad you signed it with "cheers." Since my last few columns since Thanksgiving have been about intelligent design, the State Board of Administration, the gambling fight between the governor and Legislature, the presidential debate in St. Petersburg, and two on the baseball
stadium, honestly, I figured folks could use a little issue-break, as could I...

[Bob]

Having just finished reading your article today about ladders and husbands I feel compelled to share a story. I was especially drawn to your escape plan when using the Big Sturdy Extension Ladder to dangle bravely from the eaves until rescued. Several years ago I was helping my brother-in-law put a roof on an extension to his house. Neither he nor his other brother (not Darrell) were committed to climbing onto the roof, both of them being afraid of heights, I was the one who was on the roof nailing the plywood under-roofing to the framing. The Big Sturdy Extension Ladder was resting on a lower roof which just happened to be metal. At one point the ladder slipped on the metal roof; and yes - I was on the ladder. As the ladder slipped down to the ground below I managed to grab the eave on the way down. As I hung there dangling by my armpit, waiting to be rescued, my wife, both brothers-in-law and sister-in-law stood below enjoying the best laugh that they had had in a number of years. I suppose it was comical, seeing me hanging there, but, being a deacon of the Catholic Church I was glad that I was several hundred miles away from my parishioners who would had marvelled at my knowledge of four letter words. Howard, how well I recognized myself in your column today.

[Howard Troxler]

We have about 15 minutes left in today's live chat, and business feels a little slow... no doubt everyone is saving themselves for the Rays live chat at 2 p.m. at this address:

http://blogs.tampabay.com/rays

Still, if you've got a different topic on your mind, feel free to bring it up here!

[Howard Troxler]

Bob, hah! Thanks for the ladder story. Now, let's see, a metal roof, metal ladder, and you a church deacon hanging there employing four-letter words... I am glad nothing worse came of it! :)

[Howard Troxler]

Well, I think that is it for today's live chat. Given that the holiday season is upon us, I think we'll skip the chat for next week, then we have the two Tuesday holidays... so we'll pick up the chats again in the New Year...

I'll still be posting daily stuff here on TroxBlog, of course.

Don't forget the Rays chat this afternoon, and thanks to everybody who took part in or dropped by today's chat!

Happy holidays, which I mean in a non-politically correct and yet ecumenical sense,

Howard

[20/20]

"Happy holidays, which I mean in a non-politically correct and yet ecumenical sense,..."

Brilliant!

... and to you also.

[Andy G]

For the minimal interest that pro baseball has generated since the Trop was built, I first of all don't see why a move is even being considered. But if a new stadium MUST be built to provide some construction jobs, I'd certainly want to see other locations considered. Why downtown St. Pete with its terrible access and congestion? Why screw up that beautiful waterfront? Why not somewhere more accessible like up around Gandy? Perhaps in the Carillon area? Or if such a stadium is to be funded with STATE tax dollars, why are we stuck with St. Pete? Build it anywhere and when the Ray's committment to St. Pete runs out...they will come.