Amendment 1, Ron Paul, the Clearwater McDonald's arrest -- how can you NOT read this chat transcript?

We had an active weekly live chat here on TroxBlog today, with topics ranging from Amendment 1 on next Tuesday's ballot to the arrest of a grandmother in a Clearwater fast-food line. We also heard from a Ron Paul supporter, a critic of the Times' coverage of the Pinellas land scandal, and a question about the pile of homeless people's possessions in front of St. Petersburg City Hall. And there's more!

To read the transcript of today's chat, click on the "Comments" link of this announcement a few lines below. You'll see a page with everything that's been said so far, and a space for you to add your own question or comment.

Thanks to everyone who stopped by or took part in today's chat. I hope you'll join me next Tuesday for a special-edition election day chat here on TroxBlog.

Comments

[Howard Troxler]

Let's start with a presidential question:

Why is it that in your Jan 22 "If this is Tuesday what do I stand for?" article did you bother to quote Fred Thompson's campaign and not call Ron Paul's campaign when Ron has beat Fred in most of the races? Is the St pete times in on the media blackout on Ron Paul? Now that he has beat all but Romney in Nevada? Is there a truth in honest reporting pledge by reporters or is it all controled by those to benifit from keeping people asking who is Ron Paul after a year of campaigning? I believe it is the Democrats because with Ron Paul's independents draw, he is the only Republican that can beat the Democrats in November! thank you, Mike Krech Center hill, Fl

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Mike Krech: Thanks for the note. I would point out that this was an entirely satirical column mocking the candidates and that the reference to Thompson ("The Fred Thompson campaign was asleep in a comfy chair and had no comment") was hardly complimentary. The alternative would have been to add a sentence ("The Ron Paul campaign was on the planet Splork and was unavailable for comment") that would hardly have pleased you any better, I am afraid.

[Howard Troxler]

Now for a blast from the recent past -- a question regarding the land scandal in Pinellas County.

Howard, In case you missed it, the Times reported (in a small article right next to the obits) that a grievance committee appointed by The Florida Bar had completely exonerated Susan Churuti. Although the Times consistently reported otherwise, the committee by a 6 to 0 vote found that there was no dual representation of Jim Smith and the County. Churuti was at all times acting on the County's behalf. The only person who believed otherwise was Spratt and his belief was "unreasonable" (which is a polite way of saying he made it up). Doesn't
this undermine a crucial part of the Times' whole scandal coverage? Shouldn't the paper come clean and tell the truth to its readers? -- Mark

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Mark! By way of background, Mark and I had an ongoing and spirited debate during the Jim Smith land scandal, in which Pinellas County bought a piece of land from the county's elected property appraiser. Both the county administrator, Steve Spratt, and the county attorney, Susan Churuti, helped along the deal. Spratt resigned; Churuti was fired.

Now, for the question -- it wasn't a "small" article, but I do think that it should have been on page 1B at least, after all the attention that this scandal got. As you might remember, I said I thought Churuti had been scapegoated while Spratt skated.

What I do NOT agree with is the assertion that a finding that Churuti did not violate Bar rules somehow makes this deal peachy keen. This was a stinky deal. It was an insider deal. It reflected awful judgment by all parties, including her. It was rightly criticized by a grand jury. While I am glad that Churuti's actions did not violate the law or Bar rules, I don't think it changes any of those other things.

[Howard Troxler]

Not to pile up on Mark, but here was another reader's comment pre-filed in reaction to his question:

Despite Mark's continued defense of all the public officials who brought shame to the term "good government" in Pinellas County, I’d like Howard's thoughts on if any serious effort or
progress is being made to restore the public’s trust and confidence in the Property Appraiser’s office and/or the County Commission. All seem content to just "ride out the storm" and run again with the exception of Smith who instead offers up his long time chief deputy and retires with a pension of $80K a year for life. -- Bob

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Bob: Since the property appraiser is quite insistent that there was nothing wrong with the deal, I am not aware of any efforts on his part. Some of the county commissioners were contrite over the whole thing, but if you saw our recent follow-up about commissioner Ronnie Duncan, who has trouble remembering many details about his role in it, I am not sure how much. Spratt got a year's pay and a letter of recommendation. Smith retires with benefits, etc. -- only Churuti got the axe, and I believe she got severance as well.

[guy]

Re: French Fries and Jail.

It’s great to hear that The city of Clearwater Police Department has driven crime off it’s streets , so completely, that they now can patrol the drive-through windows of the fast food stores, at 4 pm in the afternoon.
Here in St. Petersburg we have drug problems and so many numerous other crimes, that our police, frankly still have their hands full.
I really hope this experience will teach this 75 year old grandmother of 8 a lesson.
Also it shows impartiality, that no matter how clean your record in life is, you still have to learn to wait your turn in line properly.
Thank goodness the perpetrator did not get physically violent with the officer and possibly get Tasered .
People must learn that in these day’s of uncertainty and danger, an inexperienced police officer has the right to get his Big Mac without waiting his turn like the rest of us.
How embarrassing.
One thing missing in all the stories is, was the officer in a private car or a cruiser???

[Dr T]

Amendmend 1. Should we "suck it up" and approve a bill that is really 'half a loaf' and hope our friends in Tally present a new and improved version this year, or should we forget the whole thing,hold our representatives accountable,and demand that they provide a bill that is intellegent and well thought out?

[mARK]

With all due respect, I think you are missing my point. I am not addressing all aspects of the land deal----I am simply pointing out that Churuti has been exonerated. Isn't it true (now that we know what happened insofar as she is concerned) that the Times' coverage was factually flawed because it consistently reported as "fact" that she was engaged in an improper dual representation of Smith and the County? The coverage of Churuti's exoneration was buried and (worse yet) failed to acknowledge the errors in the Times coverage. Doesn't this deserve a retraction?

[Howard Troxler]

Hi guy, and thanks for coming! You know, I am always a little wary of these kinds of stories. Yes, it's POSSIBLE that the police officer accosted an innocent grandmother, and because he is just a big $##$% with nothing better to do, ran her in.

It's also POSSIBLE, and in fact is alleged on the police report, that she went out of her way to resist, cause trouble, and ended up crossing the line -- and I believe a line in this morning's news article says a McDonald's employee corroborates the officer's version more than the woman's version.

Like I said, I am wary of these... like the guy at Christmas who claimed he was innocently wandering the parking lot when they threw him out?

[Curious George]

I'm a Democrat and just got a pushpoll call for Huckabee ... doesn't the guy know he could SAVE $$ by only calling Republicans?

Sheesh and here I was upset it didn't allow me to choose Fred Thompson or Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul

[guy]

Amendment #1

Only someone on drugs, or a total idiot, would vote against a tax break for themselves.
And to argue about it shows a dire need for being sent to an asylum.

[Jamie]

Howard, I'm wondering - who's paying for Charlie's time while he's campaigning for Amendment 1? Are they reimbursing the state funds, you know, OUR funds - the ones' we're paying Charlie to be representing every single Floridian - not just the ones who pay him in cash.
Jamie, Indian Rocks

[Pablo]

Curious to hear how others feel about the upcoming presidential primary here in Florida, especially in light of the DNC refusing to seat any delegates, and the RNC seating only one-half of their delegation. The Dems (save for Gravel) have boycotted our state but have had no problem flying in, accepting tons of money, then flying out. Rebubs, especially Mayor 9/ll, have practically taken up residence here. How do others feel?

[Krystal]

Guy - you do know that that "savings" will cost you in fire and police protection, schools, libraries, road repair, etc.
'
but then the world revolves around YOU, huh? You are just that important. Blessed be your Mother.
Krystal
NPR

[Ron]

Howard, Is the state's purchase of Weeki Wachee a done deal? I don't necessarily mean have they closed on the sale, but could this deal still fall through?

[Howard Troxler]

Dr. T: You sum up the tax question perfectly well. My own bias is that it's a bad deal for Florida, but lots of folks think it is better than nothing.

Mark: "Exonerated" for not being in violation of Florida Bar rules? Indeed, the committee said she was not in violation of Bar rules, and we had an article (not a small one) saying so. But that was NOT the scandal.

[Larry]

Howard, when are the city leaders, and I use that term very loosely, going to put a stop to the foolishness around City Hall and get in a garbage truck to haul all that trash away. Are we really that intimated by the homeless that they are allowed to do in public what I could never get away with on my own land. If I had piles of trash like that laying around my house, I would have code enforcement down on me in a heartbeat. What is going on there?

[guy]

Howard, I know that instead of blaring on a horn,and demanding her license, if the officer walked over, smiled and showed this lady the proper respect, he could have probably borrowed money from her, let alone ask politely to move her car up a little, and you know it.

[Howard Troxler]

Jamie, the pro-Amendment 1 campaign is being paid for with private dollars -- $1-million alone from Florida Power & Light Co.; we've been keeping track of it in Buzz items and stories in the newspaper.

Guy: Is it possible I am not an "idiot" if I think my relative small savings under Amendment 1 is not worth it because of the damage to the state's tax structure? Is self-interest the only interest?

Ron: I don't know but the announcement was relatively recent, so I would imagine there's always stuff that could happen fore a done deal...

Re: Huckabee push poll to a Democratic house -- that DOES seem inefficient in today's precision-science polling... perhaps you were a former R, or another R had that phone number, or someone else in the house... random calls for a party primary does not seem smart.

[guy]

Yes Krystal, I have been taxed enough. By everyone.

[Howard Troxler]

Larry, they have passed an ordinance allowing them to clean it up -- not sure if it's had final passage yet but when it does they will do so I am pretty sure. Having sympathy for the homeless -- as well as a good-sized new shelter -- does not necessarily mean one has to let City Hall look like a dump.

Guy: yes, sir, you are right -- a gentle word turneth away wrath. All of us have the potential to escalate any confrontation, and sounds like neither the officer nor the woman were gentle.

[Howard Troxler]

And by the way, let's leave people's mothers out of this.... (grin)

[Pablo]

Ouch! Bad proofreading on my part in earlier post. "Repubs" not "Rebubs." Not trying to be cute. Just keyboard-challenged.

[Howard Troxler]

Pablo, about your earlier comment on the primary - I do not belong to either party, but I DO resent the Democratic candidates' willingness to pander to the early states while punishing Florida. I have half-joked, how can I expect them to stand up to al-Qaeda if they can't stand up to hog farmers in Iowa? I am still thinking a system of rotating, regional primaries would be best. But nobody asked me.

[Howard Troxler]

Yeah, well, just be thankful you don't have to type the word "public" a lot.

[Matt]

Howard - how true is this?

I heard that the current 1 Amendment was put forth because the Committee hadn't come up with anything and didn't want to come clean to the taxpayers who were paying for the "Special Session" that they'd come up with nothing.

So they "threw" this amendment together on the rush never expecting it to make it out of the House, let alone the Senate. But everyone up there was embarassed that they'd accomplished nothing during the expensive "Special Session" and it passed and now the Committee members are very uneasy as they know Amendment 1 is not a fix, not even a bandaid to problems.

I've heard it several times from different parts of the state and wondering - how true is this?

Matt in Oldsmar

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Matt! I think that is a fair interpretation. Remember that earlier in the year, they cooked up a "super homestead" exemption that got thrown off the ballot. Then, right before the deadline for putting SOMETHING on the ballot, they put together this idea. True, the basic issue had been around and folks had time to think about it, but the actual legislation was done in short order and on the fly.

[Pablo]

Rotating, regional primaries would be my second choice, with one national primary day my first. The system as it stands is out of hand. Results so far can be misleading. Sure someone may win a state, but was that state a winner-take-all, did they allow cross-over voting, was it a stand-for-your-choice caucus or a secret ballot? Delegate count is what's important to report, not simply who "won" a state.

[Howard Troxler]

Hey, Ron, my quick search shows a 12/18 news item saying there was a long row to hoe on the Weeki Wachee deal -- concept only, no words written out yet, both sides cautioning there could be hangups.

If I remember right, there's a donation to the state of land, etc. -- but the attraction LLC (I think it's an LLC) still wants control -- not sure the state will (or should) go along completely.

[Schauer]

Wow lots to comment on. First, as an attorney I can say that you must read between the line of the Bar Committee decision. Being exonerated of dual representation does not mean what she did was right. Only that there was not enough evidence to convict. Remember, OJ was acquitted too.

[Larry]

Howard, if the property tax amendment fails, and it looks like about 50/50 to me, do you think anything meaningful will come out of Tallahassee this year or SOS? I see the school board in Pinellas has come out against the amendment. And we already know the firefighters and police are against it. Are there enought realtors, lawyers, title companies and banks to push it through? What about the Commission(?) on taxation? When might they have a recommendation?

[Howard Troxler]

Pablo, my only worry about a single national primary is that the "hot" candidate of the moment might be the winner before we figure out the downside. At least with what we've got now there's a LITTLE chance of seeing more of a candidate. Each in turn -- Thompson, Huckabee, Obama, etc. -- has made everybody gush for a little while, and if they had peaked at the right moment...

'Course, we have a single-day STATE primary for governor, senator etc... maybe if there WERE a national primary, my worry would be offset by the realization by the electorate that This Was It. Even Iowans and New Hampshire folks know they're not choosing "the next president," only arranging the field.

[Schauer]

Second As I taxpayer I can say I am voting against 1 because it would force the legislature to really address the issue again and not put a band-aid on a hemorrhage. Second, the schools need that $85 more than I do.

[Matt]

Thanks Howard - but then why would our Governor be on the bandwagon for this while he should be working for as you said earlier, the "public" in the whole state?

I wonder too, are we being reimbursed by this independent group for the time OUR
govrnor is spending on this? Is there nothing else Florida Public Servant No. 1 should be doing? Or is everything so hunky-dorky in the Sunshine state we no longer need a working, hands-on Governor?

I want my tax dollars being spent wisley and fiscally responsibly.

Oh yeah, how would Amendment 1 affect Charlie? Has he bought property yet? Does he have a real stake in Floria?

[Howard Troxler]

Schauer: As them French guys say, d'accord!

Larry: Goood question! There COULD be some new stuff in the Legislature if the amendment fails. Remember Speaker Rubio says Amendment 1 does not go far enough for his taste. Remember also he previously supporting exempting ALL homestead property in Fla from tax.

Not out of the question, seems to me, that if Amendment 1 fails the Legislature might come back with a different plan for the November ballot.

[Howard Troxler]

Also on Amendment 1, there was a S Fla poll the other day showing it only in the 40s!!! This is lower than I figured, I was thinking upper 50s or low 60s, in other words that the election is going to be close.

Re: Crist: Dunno if they're doing it, but typically in these things there is actual bookkeeping going on to segregate the political, privately funded expenses from the public function.

Re: the campaign: As I said, FP&L has now put $1-million into it -- and also is looking for some help on some big legislation this year. It'll be fun to see if it passes and whether the gov vetoes it! Sorry to sound like a Charliephile but I bet he is capable of doing exactly that.

[guy]

Actually Howard I would never call you any such name even if you are standing in the other corner,
This tax break will greatly effect my family financially, and it will take a 60% vote.
I consider my family all grass roots type of people.
Thats what we get for having seven kids and bringing them up right.
We all could use a tax break big time and this is just a start.
Believe me, if this doesn't pass it will be the last you hear of another for at least ten years.

[Howard Troxler]

Ten minutes or so left in the live chat, plenty of time to bring up a new subject, or to jump in!

[Howard Troxler]

Guy, as I've said in columns, there absolutely is a tax break here for homeowners. There also is SOME protection for non-homesteaders (the 10 pct annual cap on appraisals). I've heard lots of folks say that is enough for them to vote yes...

[Schauer]

I have seen any new about the stadium move recently. Is no news good news? Or are they some where festering.

[Pablo]

Thanks for another great chat, Howard, and for being so public with your opinions.

[Howard Troxler]

On the stadium, the City Council voted 7-1 last Thursday to issue the request for developer proposals for the existing Tropicana Field site.

The next official big step doesn't come until March 18, when those proposals are unsealed and we know what the offers say. I think there is a public hearing scheduled in between as well.

Then they weigh the proposals, decide whether to proceed, choose one, negotiate a deal... they keep saying, don't worry, no decisions are being made yet. I keep saying, yeah, then you'll get to the last day and say, "But we've come too far to stop now!"

As with any big deal, the trick here is going to be keeping the ability to say no.

[Howard Troxler]

Pablo, thank you for being here and for the good word!

[guy]

10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 sign-off
That was one fast hour

[Howard Troxler]

Almost done... should I assume that we are going to McDonald's for lunch?

[Schauer]

When it comes to Tax breaks and rebate I have this problem in decision by sound bites. The "stimulus package" that is being discussed is worthless. I would take that 800 and pay down credit cards. that will help no one except the large lenders. It is better to put that 124 billion into road and infrastructure projects that put people to work increase tax base and help the general population as well. There is a quick "trickle down" effect from that.

[Howard Troxler]

Ah, Schauer, the "stimulus" is an interesting issue, isn't it? Wish I knew more about economics. But I suspect most folks would NOT just pay down credit cards... the whole idea being to jazz the consumer economy, which is 70+ pct of our GDP.

At any rate, our hour is now up. THANK YOU for being here, either to watch or to take part. I'll leave comments open, as always, for anybody who wants to add something.

Remember -- election day is one week from today! We'll have an Election Day chat. Don't forget as well that you can vote early. As we say here in Florida, vote early and vote often.... bye for now.

[Larry]

Thanks, Howard, good stuff.

[guy]

This Letter is # 50 a record day of comments that made sense!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jim Johnson]

Gimme a break, Howard. Granny is 75 years old, and Junior is 31. Your own paper says she was parked correctly and Junior laid on the horn because he couldnt get around her.

But a young cop cannot win a war with an old lady. It was poor judgment to try. AND the case will be tossed out of court because it's assinine to begin with.

What was the result? The taxpayers get soaked for maybe a Grand, to process Granny, and the police department looks like ham-fisted goons.

The publicity didnt help McDonalds, either.

[Lawrence]

It is indeed amazing how a wait for food at McDonald's could escalate to a trip to jail. This morning's paper was filled with praise for the officer and thumbs down to Granny. I'm sure, as always, that there are two sides to the story. If indeed the officer laid on his horn, he probably ticked Granny off or scared her. I do feel however, that once he identified himself to her as a police officer, she should have complied with his instructions without further complaint. The cops have a tough enough job to do; and to allow the citizenry to disregard or ignor their orders given in the line of duty, would be to compromise the integrity and authority of the brave men and women serving in that position. Certainly the instructions of a police officer would countermand the instruction of the drive-through service attendent and Granny should have known that.

[Jim Johnson]

Lawrence the woman is 75 years old, for the love of Pete! This isnt some snippy chickee-doodle with an attitude. You do not use your badge to muscle old ladies regardless of what theyre doing. Meathead is lucky she doesnt have gorillas for grandsons.

If Meathead had asked her sweetly rather than laying on the horn in his private car, and acting like he had al Quaida, she might have moved it the foot or so he needed to get by.

But now she will sue and we'll all pay for Mr. Macho the Granny Terminator's impatience.