St. Pete passes ordinance -- without Al Lang

I love government.

As expected, the St. Petersburg City Council this morning completed the process of breaking its word to the citizens about the future of Al Lang Field.

After months of saying that the "number one" priority in the land-use ordinance passed today would be protecting Al Lang Field, the council passed an ordinance without it.

Here is why I love government -- because of the way that government thinks. The council actually thinks that in breaking its word to the public today, it came up with an acceptable alternative.

Council member Jeff Danner offered a resolution to the effect that the city should now conduct a "visioning" process on Al Lang's future.

Visioning! That is a government and consultant word. The idea is that everybody should "vision" about what they want to see at the Al Lang site in a bunch of yak-yak sessions.

So, you see, last year's public hearings that discussed the Al Lang site, where the public said it wanted Al Lang protected as a park, do not count.

And the City Council's repeated statements dating from last August that it would make Al Lang the "number one" priority in today's ordinance do not count either.

So instead of doing what it said it was going to do, the City Council has delayed everything for months to come. And this "visioning" nonsense is just one more way for the city to "keep its options open."

* * *

Council member Leslie Curran, a few moments ago, tried to cast doubt on my column in this morning's newspaper about my representation of what the council said about Al Lang in its Dec. 20 meeting. I am not sure how she can deny what is on the video of the meeting. As I said in the column, you can see the discussion for yourself on the city's web site. The Al Lang discussion starts about 3 hours and 42 minutes into the recording.

* * *

Update, 11 a.m. -- actual closing quote from council chairman James Bennett:

"I think that this council has been very prudent and has taken its time and been deliberative on this issue, and open. This is a very fluid event, and I think we're doing very well."

Comments

[Don in St. Pete]

Council Chairman Bennett, What promises were made to you? In a personal conversation you assured me you were against this proposal and in favor of making Al Lang a park. Councilman Dudley as my district representative, I am sorely dissapointed you didn't stand up for your constituents. The citizens won't soon forget, so I hope none of you gave up your day jobs.

[Bland]

Citizens remember and share with your neighbors all of these council and mayoral shenanigans.

Next time we vote for council members, vote in a new group. These guys are not governing as the average citizen wishes.

The council is out of their cotton picking minds if they think the citizens are going to let this stadium deal at Al Lang fly.

Vote No in November.

[Pablo]

This is the very same Council Member Bennett who said on televison the night The Times broke the secret about the new proposed waterfront stadium that all he knew was what reporters were telling him. Then he said in the newspaper, referring to the rigged "open forum" at the Trop that the Rays had given us a tight timetable, and we needed to move quickly. To Council Member Curran's credit, she came by our table at that "open forum" and encouraged us to state our frustration with the way the meeting was being conducted. A lot of good it's done us to state that frustration. When will The Times be running a photo of Foster shaving his head?

Oooohhhhh Adam? Here boy!

Care to weight in on the integrity of the NY boys and their cronies at the City?

Let me take a guess on Jamie's next public comment...

"This is the first I've heard of the Al Lang/Park thing!"

I see a shiny new blue car in St. Pete’s future, with Rickey at the wheel and Jamie riding shotgun… the NY boys will be following in their limo.

[Naturalbill]

Visioning, smisioning! Vision 20/20 was YEARS of visioning which I and hundreds of other citizens took part in. Waterfront protection as parks was one of the dominant points that came from this. Why oh why do we need more "visioning" on this since it has been concluded the people want waterfront protection as parks? But then again, what difference does the opinion of the people matter to Council?

[20/20]

Howard,

You are to be commended – and frankly praised professionally – for staying on this.

This situation is quickly becoming a disgrace and an embarrassment. For what it’s worth, this is what I believe should happen;

1. The entire plan should be immediately halted… and all dates, meetings, actions, e-mails, phone records, promises, leases, trade-offs, pay-offs, and players publicly exposed.

2. Any politician involved should be charged with Dereliction of Duty and Intent to Defraud the Public… and summarily removed from office forfeiting all residual benefits.

3. The BOCC should be held in contempt for having full knowledge, and failing to protect via injunction proceedings… property owned (presuming it still is) by the citizens of Pinellas County.

4. Bill Foster can possibly salvage (to some degree) his career IF, he stands by his word and shaves his head. It is the manly thing to do; it is the honorable thing to do; it is the right thing to do.

The again, I'm just a sucker for that whole Constitution thing.

[Bland]

Howard,

I think I have it. The Council may have a secret plan “B” with the Rays. Why not, they had a secret current plan.

If the voters vote against the stadium usage of the Al Lang property, then Council will take development proposals for the Al Lang waterfront property to be part of the tax base. Then the increase in tax revenue will support a plan to convert or build a new stadium on Trop site with probably some additional tax base development on the existing 86 acres.

Do not be surprised if an RFP presents a similar idea in March, even if this was not the request.

This scheme is a chess game with many moves. I know this is cynical but after fifty-(50) around these rascals I get that way.

I’m sure, if in a fact a plan “B” does exist, no Council member would admit to it today.

[no way in heck]

Bland, you have no idea how close you are.

[no way in heck]

This has strings attached all the way to the “Big Shadow”. Although the LLC names will change, the players remain the same.

My pappy used to say, “Son, be careful who you mess with; ‘cause you never know who they know.”

Just a reminder of a post from yesterday's blog. Poster described a meeting this week between some members of the Downtown Neighborhood Association and Rick Musset, Dave Goodwin and crew from Economoic Development. This is what he described AS NOTED a bit further below. When you couple the MANY MANY areas COMPLETELY unresearched in regards to this whole issue, the secrecry, the apparent confusion and untruths bubbling out of various council mouths, you can only concur with one of the things 20/20 said above:

"1. The entire plan should be immediately halted… and all dates, meetings, actions, e-mails, phone records, promises, leases, trade-offs, pay-offs, and players publicly exposed."

Here's info from yesterday's poster Hal:

"We were told that the City isn't even sure if the Al Lang site is suitable for the proposed use as a stadium of this magnitude. We were told the State planning document (IADRI) might have to be amended, because there may not be any more allowed residential units available for the Trop site. It could take a year to accomplish this task. We were told that the City has just begun to look into the experiences and characteristics of other cities with in-town ball parks (the Trop is in-town, by the way)."

With matters such as these in mind, NOT TOO MENTION THE PERMITS NEEDED TO DREDGE AND FILL THE BAY.......and the Wayne Garcia article yesterday from Creative Loafing exposing TWO YEARS OF CITY and RAY'S PRIVATE DEALINGS.........how can you say anything other than 20/20's number one suggestion...with one addition.

LET'S SEE THE RAY'S FINANCES........they need to open their books right now.........because it's all an unholy mess at this point with the loomiong question of "why does our city HAVE THE RIGHT to transfer city assets to the Rays organization for their own profit and private corporation benefit through the use of OUR TAX DOLLARS GENERATED BY OUR CITY AND COUNTY LANDS"?

Oh, one more thing....Jaime's been mowing too many lawns lately......those chemical fertilizers and weed killers have finally gotten to those last bits of brain cells he had left.......

[Don Mott]

Visioning, what a joke although not a funny one. Sometimes I think local governments especially the Pinellas County Commission, St. Pete City Council and the Hillsborough County Commission are in competition to see who can be the sleaziest most useless lying bunch of pond scum. I also think they believe that voters have short memories and or are stupid. I certainly hope those thoughts are proven wrong come election time.

[Larry]

Like Don, I am very disappointed in Councilman Dudley who has thus far acted like a head bobber with the rest of those idiots on council. He will not get my vote again. This council is incredible in their arrogance and outright lies to the citizens of this city. I hope that when the stadium deal comes up for a vote is is soundly defeated by the citizens who have no other way to look out for their interests than the ballot box. No one on council cares and certainly no one in city hall. It's a disgrace.

[ed]

now i hope all you outraged st. pete citizens will go to the polls & vote the next council election-not like the last election where i read 9% of the electorate voted-disgusting!!!!!! seems like you are all just "big talkers"!!!

[Bland]

Ed,

I suspect all of us are not only the big talkers but the consistent voters in each election as well.

I can assure you, I vote in all elections. It is my duty and honor.

[Jan Allyn]

Thoroughly outraged?
Send your screed to:
mayor@stpete.org
council@stpete.org
Here's mine...

Mayor & Council:
I am thoroughly disgusted with today's actions deferring the designation the Al Lang Field site as park land. No "visioning" is needed. Visioning already took place during the discussions surrounding the amendment of the LDRs. At that time you told the people you represent that you would designate the Al Lang site as parkland "later," but this was patently false. You knew at the time that it was false. You never had any intention of doing so because you had other, secret, plans. Even though the redevelopment plans for the Trop site and Al Lang site are now public knowledge, you continue to mislead voters and engage in foot-dragging in an attempt to force the public to accept an astronomically expensive plan that we cannot afford and that nobody in their right mind supports. Listen to the people you represent. They are not millionaire baseball franchise owners, but they are the people who hired you--who trusted you--to represent them and you are failing miserably to do so.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi y'all and thanks for the comments. Couple of things:

(1) Maybe voter turnout would have been higher if voters had known they were electing a council that would make one of the most important decisions in the city's history. But, nah, no need to get the voters all confused or anything, so better to keep it secret until after the election.

(2) That is a really interesting theory about a Plan B for the Al Lang site and I have been wondering if something like that could be the case. This is a weird, stubborn resistance by the council and the city staff to just designating the darn thing -- which costs zero, and the voters can still approve the stadium.

And since it was perfectly legal for them to have a signed secret deal last time, quite right, they could have a signed deal for Plan B and not have to tell anybody.

Man, I am getting cynical and grumpy....

Yah, the "visioning" will be fun.

As someone who was sitting in the chambers when each of the Council members promised to include the protection of Al Lang when they passed
the "glitch" ordinance, however can I
feel anything except lied to?

[Ron]

I am looking forward to voting YES for the new stadium and the redevelopment of the Trop. The council understands that this is a good plan for the city.

[Winston]

AHA...

I have the perfect solution:

Since the City Council has gone to the trouble of issueing the Request For Proposals, accept them.

Tell the Rays to go ahead and move to Tampa, Orlando, wherever.

Convert Al Lang field into a city park.

Tear down the Trop, after the slickers are evicted, or have left town with their tails between their legs (checkbooks firmly in a secret pocket).

Develop the Trop site as per the RFP. This will bring in lots of "free" taxes.

This way, St Pete BB fans will not have to duck into a corner when the Rays are mentioned. We would also have a great waterfront park.

Winston

[Winston]

It goes without saying, vote out all of these sleaze-bags at the next opportunity

I'd like to thank former councilmember Richard Kriseman for leading the charge for online webcasts of council meetings. Thank you sir.

[Teacher]

Every Pinellas County school teacher, with very few exceptons, understands what terms like "visioning" represent. Please convey my sympathy to the duped public. How coy of the council to use this ploy to move to the upside of town.

[Tom C]

Sorry, but I didn't read the rest, after I read the part about the "citizens". That's us, everybody! And they don't care what you think. They don't even care what each other thinks. How do you run a city with so many people who can't even agree on the weather, or the time of day. "We'll take your money, sure, but don't you dare expect anything in return...."!!!!!!!!!!!

I have now realized since watching the posts about these issues,that the residents that have a negative view should pack up and leave. First you vote on a completely useless amendment 1 for which you get a measly $240 back. A double homestead that isnt truly double. Time to go cry somewhere else and too others that might actually care. Because when the time comes things will happen as they should. Maybe people should cry about the true waste of money like the money that crist spent driving around the state on that amendment 1 mistake,

[Will-Ray Bendover]

Vote no. Council is just as guilty as the mayor was with all his closet negotiations. Baker isn't for it because he didn't get the first chance to sell out his city to private profiteers.

[Will-Ray Bendover]

Amendment 1 was a huge mistake. Just remember this trusting council will also set the milage rate to make up for all the tax shortcomings that you idiots passed when 1 was approved.

[Bono]

Oh, baby child...

It's no secret that the stars are falling from the sky
It's no secret that our world is in darkness tonight
They say the sun is sometimes eclipsed by a moon
You know I don't see you when she walks in the room

It's no secret that a friend is someone who lets you help
It's no secret that a liar won't believe anyone else
They say a secret is something you tell one other person
So I'm telling you,child

It's no secret that a conscience can sometimes be a pest
It's no secret ambition bites the nails of success
Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief
All kill their inspiration and sing about their grief

A man will rise
A man will fall
From the sheer face of love
Like a fly from a wall
It's no secret at all

Oh, yeah!
It's no secret that the stars are falling from the sky
The universe exploded 'cause of one man's lie
Look, I gotta go, yeah I'm running outta change
There's a lot of things, if I could I'd rearrange

I have been open minded about the proposal, but the process has been sickening. The council clearly were set to take on Al LAng's designation in the glitch ordinance. The Mayor said "Let's keep our options open." And of course, the bobbleheads do what?

What have the council members been drinking? Does anyone think this proposal - or the road to get there - has been anything but a dud?

[Pazourek]

I wouldn't expect anything else from this council or the Mayor. They don't care about the citizens of St. Pete. They seem to think they have a blank check (OUR MONEY) Every citizen needs to call the City @893-7171 and complain every day if need be. Call everytime you see wastefull spending. Let them know how you feel. They are so tired of us calling on a regular basis. Every citizen needs to make their voice heard. SOOOO CALL
893-7171. Or you can go and speak at council meetings. Where you et 3 min. a month a whole 36 min. a year to be heard by those that your tax dollars pay. REMEMBER, THEY WORK FOR US!!!!
They need to remember who they work for too!!!!!!!!!!!!

[matthew lawson]

Bland wrote about a plan B. I've been thinking along those lines too and thought I was just being paranoid. Glad to know I am not alone. I was thinking that the waterfront plan was so impossible for so many reasons that it would never work. And the Rays knew it wouldn't work and that the citizens would kick up up a fuss. So, sometime, say around May, they'd say, "Hey, we are good guys. We see your upset. We won't fill in your bay, clog your street with traffic, deny anyone NOT going to a game access to their city. Tell you what, how about you build us a stadium at the Dog Racetrack site?" And everyone will be so thrilled they their downtown won't get trashed that they do it. Only later will they realize that, hey, they just gave some millionaires a stadium, paid for with taxpayer money to make those boys even richer.

It could very well be the old bait and switch. Or feint to the left and run to the right.

[Bland]

Matthew Lawson:

I agree the Dog Track would be preferable for access for the Tampa folks and the entire county.

I do not know if we are paranoid, but in my case my family has been in this area since the ‘30’s, myself since 1957, St. Petersburg has always had a “Tampa Wan Abe Complex.” Trying, most times unsuccessfully, to do many projects that were not right or if you will allow to big for their britches.

Now our City Leaders want to transfer “estimated” tax revenues in a new project to finance a new half billion dollar stadium. As I have said before on this blog, given the state of the economy and the exponential run up in property tax revenues the last six years, the Council’s timing on this could not be worse.

But I do agree, before the fat lady sings we may well see a “bait and switch.” I just do not see the voters allowing the stadium on the Al Lang site.

Finally, I appreciate everyone’s comments to this blog and the paper; I would like to hear from those who support the stadium move and the probable transfer of tax revenue to finance it. Your opinion and insight is as valuable as or more so than mine. I can change my mind, but at my age and history, it is very hard for me to do so.

Well I'm ready to sign my lease at Al Lang "The Symphony" Towers! I've been waiting and waiting for another luxury condo building on the waterfront! We don't have nearly enough of those!

Bland,

Fortunately, THERE IS BARELY ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THE STADIUM IDEA AT ANY LOCATION USING TAXPAYER RESOURCES. Not JUST because of the site plan idea for Al Lang which stinks totally (that's a no-brainer), but because FOLKS ARE AGAINST BUILDING ANYTHING WITH OUR RESOURCES OR MONEY FOR A PRIVATE CORPORATION. I think you'll find that the generic "we" won't want to pony up ANY taxpayer money. Period. Wherever a possible "bait and switch" could drive the Ray's and their corporate desires. REMEMBER, Bud Selig and the whole MLB BIG BOYS crew are coming to town February 26th
for the Governor's Baseball Dinner

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/12/17/daily36.html?jst=b_ln_hl

My guess.....we'll hear stage two (if any) just before or AFTER that event.

[Bland]

8:42 AM,

I think I am in agreement with your comments.

My emphasis is that the Council may be successful in selling to the Citizens the “concept” that the new development will pay for the stadium without any "new" taxes.

This is a psychological "Trojan Horse" that has worked for them in the past. Leaving us stuck with the real note (i.e. costs). Who knows if it is "new" taxes or some "reduction" we might have realized if the development had not been built.

By that time the development is off the ground, the Mayor and Council Members run and get elected to the County Commission (e.g. a la Bob Stewart) and show us all how to grow government some more on our nickel.

To be really cynical let’s go to the future: November 2012, the new City Council proposes turning the abandon Trop Field into a large basketball complex and seeks an NBA team. The new Council has a plan to develop Straub Park into a four star hotel, the estimated tax revenues will be utilized to fund the Trop Stadium Basketball renovation at no additional expense to the taxpayers. By the time they kick dirt on me this thing could snow ball and never end.

[Paul]

Hey Councilman Jeff Danner: 'vision' this, your butt being voted out onto the street because YOU'RE NOT LISTENING to the citizens you are supposed to represent. We have had the LDR meetings, and already asked for Al Lang to be a
P A R K!! Dang, these council people are some slimeball double talkers.

[matthew]

Seattle Sonics Admit that Sports Do Not Benefit Cities

"The financial issue is simple, and the city's analysts agree, there will be no net economic loss if the Sonics leave Seattle. Entertainment dollars not spent on the Sonics will be spent on Seattle's many other sports and entertainment options. Seattleites will not reduce their entertainment budget simply because the Sonics leave."
This is undeniably true - it's the substitution effect in a nutshell - but it is a pretty amusing thing to hear a pro sports team admit in court. At least one sports economist thinks so too:
Rodney Fort, a professor of sports management at the University of Michigan, who has criticized the economic-impact claims made by pro-sports teams, called the Sonics' latest argument "the best chuckle" he's had in a long time.
"It would seem that the value of the Sonics is a 'contingent' value contingent on the purposes of the Sonics ownership," Fort said in an e-mail. "On the one hand, when the Sonics are trying to get the public to pitch in on a new arena, they are worth tens of millions to the Seattle area. On the other hand, when they are trying to beat their KeyArena lease, they are worth nothing to the Seattle area."

from www.fieldof schemes