Thursday, Feb. 21, 2008

Happy Thursday. Happy fourth-episode-of-the-season Lost day. Any Losties in the crowd? Any theories on what's going on? Who is Mr. Abbadon?

Here's the link to today's column (We don't need no stinkin' higher ed) as it appeared in print and on the web. My editor suggested a slight rephrasing near the end but otherwise I think it's the same as what I posted yesterday. I also see our lead editorial is on the same subject today.

This puts me in the market for a Sunday column topic. I have been saving some string for a column about our state attorney general, Bill McCollum, whose focus is considerably different from our last attorney general, some guy named Crist. My plan B is a column based on the chef who, uh, seems to have gussied up his resume -- not as much about him, per se, as about our society, how eager we are both to spread and to accept b.s. these days... the more "reality" TV there is, the bigger a liar everybody is. I mean, really, if a guy tells me he's a Knight of the Royal Whatchamacallit, I am pretty much gonna want to see a photo of him and the Queen.

On various other fronts:

* I tend to believe this woman. I tend not to believe this woman. I am content to wait for the case to unfold to hear EVERYTHING that led up to the incident involving this guy. The video is harsh and maybe it does tell the whole story. But we'll see.

* The issue in the case of these two guys is not whether "the deputies were racist, so the evidence is thrown out," but whether it was "the deputies had no reason to stop and search the car." If their only reason was that it had Florida license tags and there were two guys who looked like "terrorists" in it, then the case is in trouble.

* I just wanted to give a big thumbs-up to my colleagues Alex Leary and Connie Humburg for this report on how much is spent on lobbying our state Legislature -- more than $200-million, they figure from poring through the records.

* The first in a series of public hearings on the proposed baseball stadium in St. Petersburg is this evening. Both sides are gearing up supporters who will wear color-coded T-shirts. The timing is weird to me, since the city has already issued the invitation to developers, and won't even get their proposals back until March 18. At any rate, I am not prepared to conclude anything about overall public opinion from which side gets the most T-shirts...

Cheers to all.

Comments

[Winston]

On the comments of the two deputies:

It is my uderstanding that the "fireworks" had already been found before the second deputy showed up, as back-up.

The driver was speeding, which was the reason for the stop.

A car from Florida, off the beaten path, at night, in an area know for drug-dealing should have raised enough suspicion for a search, and I feel a local judge would have issued a warrant, if asked.

Hi Howard,

Although the media is focusing on T-Shirts or the color red being worn in some fasion by the opposing side, I believe that you will hear some fascinating information that might help citizens become far more educated on the issues at stake. I know that from the RED side, folks are quite serious about what they feel, have researched and will say.... and will reveal much in some cases during their 3 minutes given as best they can. You may even have a different column idea after you've heard the information as presented. We'll see.

Great column today, BTW..........

[Kay]

"A car from Florida, off the beaten path, at night, in an area know for drug-dealing should have raised enough suspicion for a search, and I feel a local judge would have issued a warrant, if asked." No, it shouldn't. Because we do not live in a police state and should be free to travel public roads without any suspicion based on the area from which we came. I'm white and once was lost in a "brown area" and when I pulled over to get my bearings and look for my map I was soon greeted by flashing lights and suspicion for being the wrong color in a "known" area of a certain activity. It may be known to the local cops, but certainly not to me who was from another city. They didn't come to be of assistance, they showed up to attempt to search my car for something. I refused and guess what? They had no choice but to let me go. That's the law, my friend.

[guy]

"These Two guy's" were doing 60 in a 35 mph zone.
The Deputy should be commended for using common sense.
Don't worry he got permission to look at the fireworks.
No where does it say he has to have a PHD in romantic language when he is out of their earshot.
What he said on the tape was correct.
They were two terrorist, taliban wannabees.
He should be commended.
THe judge will not throw out this evidence.
If he does, the Federal prosicutors have already new charges lined up to throw against "these two" liars.

[guy]

Everyone normally wears something white, and hardly ever red.
So someone should pass out red bandanna's at the door.
Bring enough for everyone who is not being paid money, to be there.

[guy]

Chef "Aldo Gratziotan",(deceased) from Connecticut worked at the royal palace in England before becoming the main man. at The American Culinary Institute in New York.
He was a legend and many of his students whom are mostly very successful, often refer back to the menus that were presented to the Queen of England. this could be were we get the saying "fit for a King" from and it was common to joke at the Imstitute that you worked at the Palace, so I would give this guy the benefit of the doubt and just taste his cooking.

"The timing is weird to me, since the city has already issued the invitation to developers, and won't even get their proposals back until March 18."

Exxxxaaacctly right!

It's the Rick and Jamie Jamboree! Lots of pretty colors, lots of nifty phrases, some cotton candy here and there… and a boatload of horse manure shoved right in you face.

[ALC]

I was talking to a food writer here in DC last night, about how much I loathe the new tabloid-style format of the SPT (sorry). She replied that she had heard only good things. She also told me that the food world (particularly the food blog community) was very much abuzz with the fall-out from the article in the Times on Robert Irvine. So kudos to Times reporters for keeping the quality of reporting high while management makes the layout "more accessible" (read: pedestrian).

The issue with the search of the car is that, yes, they were speeding (60 in a 45). They were pulled over. They were ticketed. According to the defense they should have then been allowed to go, but the officer held them. Why he held then AFTER the citation will determine this.

I tend to agree with Kay. A FL tag in a bad area is not enough reason to hold them. Had he seen them engage in suspicious activity in that bad area, then it might fly. Speeding happens everywhere.

It's what happened in between, to my understanding, the citation and the search that is under scrutiny. A lack of sand and wet towels? A FL tag? A "glare" in the rear view? If that's the case, a good portion of us here can be searched at any time.

[guy]

Did not the passenger of the car volunteer the information they had "firecrackers" in the trunk of the car????.
Going to a celebration that was in the opposite direction, from the stop????
I can't understand why the officers are not being praised instead of their methods questioned.
High priced Lawyers and left wing Bias.

[jane]

to ALC: I HATE the Times now. I've reduced my subscription to Sunday Only just so I can get the coupons. That makes me sad. I've been a regular subsciber for over 20 years.

It's AWFUL. I can't count the number of articles I've tried to read that have said "see unrelated headline on page 4a" and there's been NOTHING! Where are the editors?

The website is worse. (Excepting this blog, of course!) It's terrible to look at the "south county" news on the SPT (sorry, the "tampa bay dot com) website and see links to only one, maybe 2 articles on a good day plus a link to an embroidered obituary. (Speaking of the obits, what happened THERE? "Ginny Mae was called home with the angels on Tuesday..." Is this the Podunk Puddle Jumper Gazette?)
This is the **St. Petersburg** Times, people and it's not like nothing's going on here. Sorry for the threadjack, Howard but you DO seem to be the only one on the staff that recognizes that St. Petersburg actually exists.

In regards to the SC/USF arrest:

I believe the suspects made the comment about the "firecrackers" AFTER they were ordered out of the car which was AFTER they had received the citation for speeding.

So the question remains, why were they continued to be detained AFTER the reason they were pulled over was dealt with? I've heard the lack of sand and wet clothes makes them liars (which could only be known AFTER the search), the glare from the rear view, the laptop, the FL tag.

I don't think people would want these guys to get off on a technicality if they are in fact guilty. I think any objections come from the fact that the rights of people are possibly being trampled. One could say, yes, but THESE people are possible terrorists. The fact is that the police did not know this when the possible rights violations occurred.

I will repeat, Kay

They were pulled over for speeding. 15 MPH over the limit. This speed is enough for suspicion.

He suspected drugs, FL plate, time of night, area, etc., and asked permission for a search. I still believe that any judge would have given a warrant for a search.

You stopped ina "brown" (black) neighborhood, voluntarily, not for speeding. You were asked permission to search your car, and your "no" was sufficent to let you go on your way.

This man answered, no with a "no", but with "if you must". A simple "no" would have sufficed to require the deputy to seek a warrant, but if you must was relenquishing any objection.

Granted, had he a warrant to search for drugs, the "fireworks" would probably have been off limits, but he gave up that right, so anything found became evidence, including the links on the laptop that led to further charges.

The comments between the deputies were made after the search. Yes I can see where they would comment with two obviously Islamic people with pipe bombs in their car. Remember, at the time of discovery and backup, that is what the "fireworks" appeared to be. Had you been there, when the trunk was opened, I will bet you would have run screaming, I know I would. (Maybe I would not have screamed!)

BTW Howard

I just read that the US Post Office is issueing a commemerative stamp for Majorie Kinan Rawlings.

With the "forever" stamp now in effect, I plan to use her image the rest of my mailing days.

The "forever" stamp is ONLY the Liberty Bell ones. Be careful!

[Kay]

11:30
Speeding is cause for suspicion of what? Being in a hurry? I see people speed every day as I'm sure you do and cannot imagine that every one of them is up to something. That would be paranoid.
You see "if you must" as relenquishing any objection. I don't. I see it as "only if I don't have a choice". Actually, it was a yes or no question and they should have reasked it and required a yes or no answer. To me, that should be standard practice/part of training so there is no way it could be thrown out in court. The leo needs to be more sophisticated than that.
The point of my story about being in the wrong area while white was that they had no need to approach me with lights flashing unless me pulling into a parking lot is now against the law! If I had actually done something to raise suspicion, ok, but I had not so they should have approached asking if I need assistance.
I admit to being someone with a bit of a chip on my shoulder. Which comes from living in poorer areas and seeing many injustices. However, I am the first to give praise for good acts, such as, the leo who jumped into Tampa Bay to save the woman that jumped off the bridge! That was very very brave of him and I commend his actions!

If speeding is enough for a warrant, then most the drivers in this area could in fact be searched. That does not happen anywhere I would venture a guess.

A FL tag would be a prejudicial reason to search a person. In this state it certainly would never fly.

The time of night itself may raise flags, but people also do work at night.

The problem with this arrest is that they were asked to get out of the car AFTER the were cited for the speeding (per the defense attorney as far as I understand). In other words, he KEPT them longer than the speeding itself would have called for. So the speeding is not the reason here even if it were sufficient enough for a search.

I like Kay's suggestion that the LEOs should have to ask search questions in a yes or no format. I also think the tone is important in those questions. If they ask the search questions they should also have to make the person aware that they can refuse.

[Aquaserpent]

I don’t care if your mouth is running a thousand miles a minute, nothing the quadriplegic said justifies his being dumped on the floor. The sad thing is the officer has a good record and a life time invested that is now for naught. The poor woman now face possible incarceration, where she would be a target and in danger 24/7/365, and if convicted she may even lose her pension. I know the resignation was to protect her pension and I hope she keeps it; one moment of stupidity should not strip this woman of everything she has worked so many years to quire.

The woman with a broken arm was combative and I suspect she had been banging on the door, (see beginning of the tape) to irritate the officers. However unless she was a threat to the officers safety, her actions do not justify a broken arm. If you watch the tape you can see the officer is behind her and is in control of her arm, with a second officer attempting to control her other arm, when the officer that is behind her comes down on her arm with his forearm breaking hers. This is in my mind is police brutality, and the officer in the video should be fired, arrested, and prosecuted.

Finally the woman in the waiting room, again probably running her mouth like it was turbo charged, and obviously not obeying the officer’s commands. But you have to ask yourself does that in its self justify getting beat like a redheaded stepchild? Once the officer started using force you can see it was way over the top, instead of trying to get the woman up and out of the chair, she grabs her by the hair and flings her to the ground, obviously excessive. Once the woman is on the ground the officer starts beating her in the back of the head, and the woman instinctively starts seeking cover and or protection. One look at the booking photo shows this woman was in a slobber-knocker, with her doing all the slobbering. I suspect that if you were to have checked the officer for injuries after this confrontation you would have found injuries to her knuckles and nothing else. This again in my mind is police brutality and should be prosecuted as such.

Over the years I have become increasingly concerned about the lack of self control our officers seen to exhibit. I can’t remember a case of alleged police brutality in this area that was not ruled justified. I remember even the shooting of the hostage awhile back, 23 or 26 bullets in her was justifiable and or reasonable force. I continue to ask myself, did the woman ask to be a hostage? If she did then maybe she would have deserved the end she got. If she was not a willing participant then the offices should have done everything possible to protect her life. I know if I shoot a person once I may possibly justify that as self-defense, if I shoot them more than once it is all over for Bubba, he’s going to jail! So I can never figure out why a police officer can shoot someone 97 times and it is ruled reasonable force. I would think the police officer is the professional and I’m the amateur, so who should get more chances to stop a threat me or him? I also pray I am never a hostage because I will have adversaries on both sides of me who do not care if I live or die, they will dedicated and I will be committed to the situation.