Live chat Tuesday; new blog category

Two things:

(1) Let's have a weekly live chat on Tuesday at noon. Topic A will probably be the baseball stadium, but let's keep the floor open for anything else folks want to bring up. After all, the Legislature will be doing who-knows-what... just come by TroxBlog at or after noon and look for a new post with the headline, "The April 22 chat is OPEN." I'll also post a pre-chat announcement for folks to suggest topics.

(2) I've gotten into the habit some days of commenting on several different things in the news. So I've gathered those posts from recent months into a new category over in the left-hand column titled, "Daily Roundups." They might be an interesting reminder of some of the things that have happened in recent months.

Happy Friday to all, and have a good weekend. My Sunday column will be about the "energy bill" in the Legislature, a mix of "green" ideas and stuff the electric utilities want...

Comments

I'll be looking forward to posting on the utilities/energy bill..........grave stuff for the environment and the proposition framework for pre-billing levels for Floridians for energy that we probably don't much need at this point in time is up for sane discussion.

Howard, thank you for ALWAYS thinking and always being a caring friend for St. Petersburg. Although we might not all agree with everything you think, say and research to conclusion, I believe that we ALL feel that you give a darn. And in this day and age.......that's pretty durn special.

Happy weekend back at 'ya.....

Lorraine

[Steve Lange]

Howard, can you do some research on the taxes the public will pay for all aspects of this project please? Things like the extension of the hotel tax past 2016. City payment for two stadiums to be demolished. City payment for all Trop site contamination. City payment for the debt service on $300,000,000 for thirty years. City payment of huge amounts of staff time. City payment for the loss of 15 precious waterfront parkland arces valued at over $50,000,000. City payment for the relocation of 7,000 parking spaces at the Trop into a structure parking facility.

So Howard, can you shed some light on these issues and taxpayer costs so that the average Joe in this town can read some accurate information?

[Jon McPhee]

Can I take a shot at a "pre-squawk" on the SailAway Stadium Scam? Here's my two bits' worth, two cents having died due to inflation:

Pinellas County funding for the SailAway Stadium?

So we slowly begin to get a glimpse of how the "stadium deal" will be worked. Just like the bump-and-grind of prices of gas and food and cable TV, us yokels absorb a series of sticker shocks, punctuated by little pauses while we tighten our belts, shrink our lives, shift attention to the next reported horror, and trudge along. All so the rich can get richer.

Now Carpetbagger Michael Kalt (that translates to "cold," in German), planning yet another scalp on his belt from hanging yet another urban area out to dry, is orchestrating the strip-tease sell of this strip-mine boondoggle. This Friday, to soft-pedal public reaction, the Rays Boys let out that they've been planning on County funding all along. Should we be uplifted, or just resigned, to know that, according to former Pittsburgh mayor and stadium flack Tom Murphy, who helped squire the PNC Stadium deal, "cities … will build [team owners] a stadium, and they will build it for free [at no cost to the owners]. It is what it is." And City Council Chair Bennett sighs with relief that "only half" the public money will be extracted from the city. I'm sure the rest of the equally fiscally-strapped county is equally delighted. What will next week's revelation be? That the Girl Scouts have to contribute their earnings from cookie sales to "make the deal work?"

Ask the citizens of San Diego, Pittsburgh, St. Louis and other "small markets" what buying a stadium for "their" team has cost to the welfare of those areas. Each runs a significant budget deficit. What chances to improve schools, infrastructure like roads and parks, public health care and on down the list are lost to giving a "world-class" (whatever the heck that's supposed to mean) venue to rich team owners and pampered, over-$1-million a season players?

Maybe it's a kindness that poorer folk are being priced out of Pinellas County. That might leave only the real "elite" to fill the Rays Boys' wallets out of their own.

Bread and circuses. How dumb are we all going to be?

[guy]

Back when they were building the TROP, some transient workers, in a class action suit, got a slick attorney and sued our city for many, many, millions of dollars, claiming injuries from contamination in the soil.
I haven't heard anything about this during the present negotiations for tearing down the present site, again.
The jury found for the city.
Thank God,
My son Chris, was the jury foreman.
The next time they pile up a lawsuit, perhaps we wont be so lucky to have someone that is smart enough to see through the ruse, serving on the jury.!!!1

[Bubba]

Hey Jon, so anyone from north of the Mason Dixon line is a carpetbagger? Where are you from Jon? Are you that old that the term Carpetbagger still has meaning to you? Me, I'm all for what that Carptebagger is doing, and I've spent my whole life in the south. Jon in the future, please don't insult our new friends from the north, we need them to help us to continue to make the south the very best area in the country. Carpet bagger? It is not 1870 any more. Let's have progress, let's build that new stadium, and get rid of that so called grand building, the Trop.

[Jon McPhee]

Hey, Bubba, I'm kind of from all over, including a stint in Vietnam, almost 13 years with the federal Environmental Protection Agency, and a bunch of other stuff. I'm sure you know that Carpetbagger these days does mean, and I quote from Merriman's dictionary, "Outsider; especially : a nonresident or new resident who seeks private gain from an area often by meddling in its business or politics." That the Rays owners and Kalt happen to be slicks from New York just enriches the word's freight of meaning in this context.
I learned in law school the old adage that "If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have the law, argue the law. If you've got neither, yell real loud and call the opponent nasty names." But tell you what, I am not going to bury anything I put into the hopper on the fairly arguable issues here, in the pettifog of snot-balling that crops up in any Internet First Amendment exercise these days, of which there are many examples on this very blog.
I will say that I hear what I think is your opinion that a billion-dollar hit to the area (because that is probably closer to the real cost), so that people can walk half a mile from parking areas to pay a lot of money for hot seats in our summers to watch a modest but well-paid bunch of baseball players, is worth every hard-earned mil extracted from the individual and business taxpayers of the City and, lo and behold, now the County, and soon the region, and then the State, as amazed politicians join up to be part of a Big Deal that they simply don’t understand. And that, if the citizens here get sucked into buying the Rays Boys a stadium, it's okay to hand over a very valuable property and a whole lot of unearned profit to a bunch of, yes, Carpetbaggers. I lived in Seattle when the Mariners owners, led by “Carpetbaggers,” snookered a much larger and richer community into building a "world-class" sliding-roof semi-outdoors stadium. The folks have been able to absorb that hit, but only due to a flood tide of Boeing and Microsoft money. Looks to me like the tide is out, and receding further in this area, for the foreseeable future.
I got to say that there seems to be some similarity between the "deal" being offered in the present case, and the sub-prime scams and balloon payments sold to the Pollyanna optimists and dreamers who bought “new” houses they couldn't afford, and now are broke, evicted and sorry, watching the general tax funds bailing out the scammers for a second bite at the public's apple.
You invoke "progress." Maybe you have figured out a way to slice off some of the money that slides around as this area and state go from "livable" to "over-developed" to "I'll just stay here in Tennessee, thanks." Few people have, ask a teacher or policeman or fireman or nurse or, and there are many, an efficient City worker. "New," as you know, is not equal to "good," as in "new virus" or "new asteroid threat." And lots of people who work hard for a modest living are sucking wind these days. The last thing we need, IMHO, is another whopping obligation sapping the region's economic energy for the benefit of a very few. It actually is possible to “Just say NO,” like we are urged to do with other dangerous drugs.

[Bubba]

Jon, I can tell you are a lawyer, you speak and make no sense. The new stadium and trop redevelopment is a fantastic idea, perhaps you should go back to law school and bury your head once again in your books. This is a good idea, period, its too bad it is taking "carpetbaggers" as you call them to show how this is good for everyone. The difference between this idea and Seattle is the Trop land. 85 acres of prime retail land. Or perhaps you can tell me how it is a good idea for Pineallas County to lose over a billion dollars a year in sales tax revenue to the folks across the bridge simply because shopping here is terrible. Or perhaps you think it is a great idea for 30% of International Plaza's Business to come from Sarasota. Yes all they need to do is drive past the Trop and take millions of dollars to Tampa. By your definition the people in Tampa are carpetbaggers because they are from out of town, not residents and are profiting at our expense. Try again Jon, think some more.

[Frank LaChat]

Are retailers lining up to put high end stores anywhere in St Petersburg? Why is the old Progress Energy building still empty? I thought they were going after some retailers? Why are some of those businesses not already in the new condos on Beach Drive or advertising they are coming soon to Signature or other under-construction, high end projects? Could it be that the market is not here, at least not in their eyes?

[get-smart]

Howard , your Associate Mr.Sharockman has done a great cost comparison between stadiums. I did a little research on just one, The Padres:Petco Park San Diego

2004 cost $474 million
1999 cost $411 million
overrun $ 63 million
----------------------
10/13/99 Archive google search "padre stadium cost"

"In San Diego, voters did endorse a $411 million stadium for the Padres, just after they lost to the Yankees in the World Series."
----------------------
City Near Bankruptcy:04/15/2008

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8931178
"The council voted 5-3 for the pay hikes on Monday, the same day Mayor Jerry Sanders unveiled a budget that eliminates 130 jobs."
[Get this. The pay hikes are for the city council members!]
----------------------
http://www.kpbs.org/news/local;id=11355
"For the first time, the mayor will ask the Center City Development Corporation to help pay city obligations by covering $5 million of the $11 million the city pays every year to cover the Ballpark bonds."
----------------------
What happened to all the money the re-development was supposed to supply?

[Don Mott]

Wow I didn't know shopping here was terrible unless of course you want to buy $500 purses, $2500 shoes and custom made $2000 suits. I think there is a reason International Plaza has attracted the retailers it has and it is not for lack of space in St. Pete or Pinellas County. How about lack of buying power and foot traffic. They look at demographics to determine where their cost ratios will generate the most profit. If they thought they could make money here they would be here. To believe the Trop property, which by the way would be mixed use so there would not be the typical large shopping plaza or mall, would be successful without seeing commitments from major retailers is simply a pipe dream for now. Just because you build it doesn't necessarily mean they will come. Everything that has been proposed for the site has been just that, a proposal with no commitment from retailers, and nothing will be set forth without commitments from major players. No developer in his right mind will invest that kind of money without some guarantees, unless he's prepared to go bankrupt. So that would have to be done first. Until then it is nothing more than a dream. I might add that the new stadium is facing odds that no matter what the Rays execs say look to become more insurmountable as each week that passes seems to introduce more problems and opponents. Sweet dreams.

[Jon McPhee]

Two more little comments: Bubba, I trained as a lawyer, and worked as one for some 23 years, in government and private practice. I have a little feel for what goes on in "big deals," and how completely municipalities are under-gunned in dealing with "transaction specialists" like Kalt and the attorneys and PR people who are pushing this vision. (By the way, I thought "visions" were things that saints and crazy people had, and the people in the City government talking up these "visions" after failing to sneak them by the public as a "fait accompli" are not saints.)

I stopped practicing law maybe 10 years ago. I now work as a nurse, maybe atoning for the lawyer part, and I have a little more appreciation for the lives and struggles of the unappreciated, like teachers and nurses and police and firemen nursing aides and retired folks who volunteer for community services. These people are getting priced out of Pinellas County by taxes and speculation, to the point it's been suggested that subsidized housing needs to be built for those that are still working (with what money, you may ask, as budgets are being axed) as "guest workers." And the chances of any pay increases for the people who will eventually change our Depends and turn us and medicate us and feed us in the nursing home is even closer to zero if an albatross like the SailAway Stadium is dumped on the area's back. Many are actual Pinellas natives; I've only lived in Florida for eleven years.

My other little item is a request that when talking about how this deal might, ahem, go down, we ought to use the verbs "might" and "may" instead of "will" and "would." There is no way for sure that demolishing the Trop for a "vision" of a mixed use redevelopment, with any proceeds counting as a "contribution" by the Rays Boys, "will" or "would" contribute a brass farthing to the net economic, cultural, spiritual or even patriotic value of this area. What this part of the "big deal" "might" do is skate the area closer to bankruptcy, and "may" leave yet another carcass of another failed "vision" littering the City and County landscape.

If the Rays Boys want a stadium, give 'em Toytown Flats and let them see if they can make any economic sense of putting up their own blasted stadium. EPA and the state love "brownfields redevelopment projects," and give the redeveloper a pass on environmental liabilities.

Would you prefer "freeloader" to "carpetbagger?" They both fit.

[get-smart]

year-attendance-div place

San Diego
2001 29,726
2002 27,414 5th
2003 25,062 5th
2004*37,531 3rd
2005 35,400 1st
2006 32,836 1st
2007 34,445 3rd
2008 30,654 3rd

Cincinnati
2001 23,794
2002 23,197 3rd
2003*29,077 5th
2004 28,237 4th
2005 23,989 5th
2006 26,351 3rd
2007 25,388 5th
2008 22,914 5th

St. Louis
2001 38,389
2002 37,182 1st
2003 35,930 3rd
2004 37,634 1st
2005 43,647 1st
2006*42,588 1st
2007 43,853 3rd
2008 39,790 1st

Rays
2001 16,029
2002 13,157 5th
2003 13,070 5th
2004 16,139 4th
2005 14,052 5th
2006 16,901 5th
2007 17,148 5th
2008 17,823 5th

There might be some standard deviation that a new stadium would not appreciably increase attendance. I think the city needs to be a baseball city and the team needs to win.

[guy]

The "Florida Suncoast Dome" should have been built at the site of the old Toytown dump.
This would have had ample parking and twice as many fans because of it's availibility to the City of Tampa.
However the mayor at that time was Robert L. Ulrich, who was put in place primarily to put a stadium in downtown St. Pete.
The deal was made and that is exactly where the term "shadow government" was cast upon our city.
Now it's the same old guy's, next generation, trying to do the same thing all over again, but, this time, they might as well be trying to put it on the site of the Pier.
Because of the internet and blogging, the little guy's who pay the bills have a bit more to say than in 1986.
"GIVE THE POLICE A RAISE BAKER"

[Justin Elza]

Howard, it seems some people will argue in favor of this stadium no matter what, while probably there are others that would argue against it if God himself told them it was a good idea.

That said, so many people I come in contact with are increasingly skeptical. It seems the more we know, the less appealing this whole thing sounds. And there are still so many question marks with only a month and a half until we have to decide whether to put this on the ballot (and the City Staff Report adds even more obstacles).

I'm inclined to believe you yourself are becoming increasingly...shall we say, dissatisfied with this whole deal. Am I right?

[Steve Lange]

Howard, the Friday City Staff Report requires the Rays to add 50' more to Bayshore Drive for the Grand Prix and two sidewalks and 12' more sidewalk along First St. S. to handle the crowds. This will push the stadium out into Tampa Bay (an Aquatic Preserve) another 62' minimum, adds .4 acres more of land fill (for a total of one acre now) and pinches off the access at the waterway leading under the bridge to Demens Landing and cuts off the Sailing Clubs from using their boat put-in location. (So now will the Yacht Club speak up in defense of its facilities and members?)

The Staff report also requires the Rays to remove from their drawings and designs the team offices and 800 car parking structure they inappropriately located on Mahaffey Theatre property. These will have to be relocated either west of First St. or into the stadium which we know will be hard if not impossible to do. Likewise the 340 or so handicap parking spaces and bicycle parking which was to be located within the 800 car parking structure will now be located west of First Street. This violates ADA for handicap parking and requires that bicycle users be off site which is against the city requirements. Is there even available land close enough to the proposed stadium for the city staff required 3,500 new car parking structure the Rays will have to provide in addition to the 800 car parking facility?

The Staff report also requires widening the Ray's so called Al Lang Way, located just south of the stadium on the Ray's drawings. This will push the stadium further northward thus reducing the so called two acre park to less than two acres. When you add the city required Grand Prix race track which must remain on this two acre parcel (which the Rays currently do not show on their drawings)then this so called park is cut in half with a raceway road. When you add the handicap drop-off and pick-up zones located along the north and west of this park, and you throw in the foundations and guys wires to support the 320' high mast and stadium roof, and you throw in the 300,000 gallons of storm water which the Rays state will be stored in the park, well I mean, this isn't a park at all. It is a utility, storm water storage depot, foundation and guy wire staging area, handicap pickup and dropoff zone, Grand Prix race track loop, totally hardsurfaced walking zone for the throngs of baseball goers kind of a thing/zone/place/utility area.

So in the end, everyone should read this staff report and see for themselves what many of us have been saying all along.

The Al Lang Field site is TOO SMALL FOR THIS HUGE STADIUM. It has lapped over Bayshore Drive, moved out into Tampa Bay by one full acre, eaten up the so called two acre park, pinched off the waterway passing under Demens Landing and almost stolen up to 2.5 acres on Mahaffey Theatre property.

When you add in the taking of our precious waterfront parkland and the $800,000,000 dollars in city taxes or assests or general fund revenues which will be required, when do we just say no?

Howard, please shine your big light on this stuff. Your city needs you.

Steve Lange

[Thor]

Thor can hear a conversation Justin has. "Hi, I'm Justin, I like grass and bugs and I'm on the board of poop, we are against the Stadium aren't you" to that, the poor slob retorts: "Ugh, yes I guess, sure, stadium is bad, hey Justin, I like grass can I have some of yours?" Then Justin procalims the world is against the stadium because in his world, everyone is. Keep smokin Justin, it will keep you happy. Justin, you are so completly full of it and of youself, Thor is so very amused. Thor has never seen so much egotistical junk coming from a person until she ran into you. Oh and Justin, the amusing part is you know Thor, ha ha ha. So Thor knows if you are represntative of poop, we'll all be enjoying a new stadium in 2012. Thor has spoken, Thor is wise, Thor is brave, Thor is hanging out at Woody's right now.

[CarolBe]

I see a "Ray" of hope in the suggestion that the County should chip in half the money for a stadium. They were not here the last time that idea came around, some 25 years ago. County residents were so outraged that Commissioner Cazares (pro-stadium) was voted out of office, and there was a serious effort by the folks north of St. Petersburg to secede from Pinellas. This effort was led by a coalition who resented the bed tax on motels being diverted from marketing to funding a dome, far from their businesses. Therefore, even if the proponents have found enough friends on the St. Pete council to win the day, they are likely to find less enthusiasm in the County Commission.

[Jon McPhee]

Thanks to Steve Lange and anyone else who will take the time to read and track and report on all the documentary parts of this White Elephantine "development." "Deals" like this develop momentum toward approval among the players, including our elected officials and City staff, while ordinary people who have to spend their time struggling to make a living are kept in the dark. It does take someone with a bright light and the means to be widely heard to help us plain folk know when we're being had by our "betters." Kind of like the bug man uses when he's checking your house for termites, who eat your walls before you have any idea they are there.

This is serious stuff, folks -- don't wait until you are presented with a tax bill that includes a new line, under the one for "your share of the Big Deal's public contribution," for "cost of unwinding the waterfront and former Trop property mess."

I have no sympathy for folks who complain about paying taxes to meet the cost of public schools (the quality of that schooling is another issue)and other public services. Education is necessary if our system of government and society are not to be perverted beyond all recognition. But using public money to fund something that belongs in a place like Dubai, where everything is new and gigantic and built with profits from the sale of oil to us yokels, just ain't right. Supporting and enriching a baseball franchise is not a public service.

Not everyone is a baseball fan. Yet now everyone in Pinellas County, and soon the Bay region and, as we'll learn one of these days, the state treasury too, will be hooked to pay a little something toward the ego gratification of the Rays Boys on and off the field, if this "deal" gets closed on us. That is "freeloading" on a billion-dollar scale by, dare I mention it again, Carpetbaggers.

[Justin Elza]

Good points John.

[Justin Elza]

Carolbe, I hope you're right.

[Thor]

Jon, you are as incompetent at Justin. Really amazing, Thor is surprised you guys know how to use a computer. Hey Justin, aren't youabout to get your next supply? Better stiock up with food you'll be hungry. Jon, go and check out Justin at his so called creative place, it will be easy to find, it has a lot of lava lamps. Have fun Justin, hope your next poop meeting goes well and you have plenty to pass around. Thor is just thinking about all of that shopping she will do in 2012 at was once the Trop. Thor has spoken, Thor is wise, Thor is brave, Thor is secure in her wisdom.

[guy]

Dear Thorn, I hope you are right.

[OMS is the Best]

Osceola Middle School's Exceptional Education teacher, Mrs. Bonnie Lurie is heading up a community project. Her Autistic students are organizing the contributions for the entire school! The students are excited to see how they can make a difference for The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. We learned it is the world's largest voluntary health organization dedicated to funding blood cancer research, education and patient services. The Society's mission: Cure leukemia, lymphoma, Hodgkin's disease and myeloma, and to improve the quality of life of patients and their families. Since April is Celebrating Autism month, we want to try to do our best for these awesome students!

Mrs. Lurie's students delivered a collection box for each first period. They collect the boxes twice a week, tally up all the money, and email a report on how each class is doing. The class collecting the most money will receive a Hospitaliano Pasta Party lunch courtesy of the Olive Garden. SO, will you help us meet our goals to win?

Some of the classes have collected many, many pennies, nickels, dimes, and quarters. We talked our teacher into doubling the amount our class collects and we want to see if she really will put in two hundred dollars if we can raise that much! Will you drop by our school and leave pennies and any other money for our six grade first period Geography class? It goes to a wonderful cause and maybe your pennies (or checks to The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society) will be what they need to find the cures!! You can reach Mrs. Johnson at Johnsondo@pcsb.com or 547-7689, ext. 434. Mrs. Johnson's Sixth Grade First Period Geography class is counting on your pennies! THANK YOU, in advance, for your dedication to education!

[Paul in St Pete]

Howard,

Thanks for putting up with all of us. Your blog is rather kickass, if you don't mind me saying so. I personally could care less if the Rays get their new stadium, I mean, we're just a small city, my local code inspector was canned and the police reduced service in my area... so what the hell, let's spend a few HUNDRED MILLION on a new stadium. I'm like that, I'm generous. Let's make home plate a pure brick of gold and engrave KALT right on it. Seems appropriate.

Cordially,

Paul

[Howard Troxler]

Howard here. Thanks for the comments. I am interested in the impact of the city staff's revisions. Although Mr. Kalt said they were not a deal-breaker, it certainly seems to make the whole thing harder to accomplish. The comments above on the effects on the entryway park are striking, as well as the additional incursion into the bay.

Now we see that the thing depends upon extending the county's tourism tax for the life of the new stadium -- this seems like a "new" tax to me, contrary to the intial rhetoric from the team ownership. Even the city's half of the deal is not guaranteed to come from the redevelopment of the Trop; I think there has to be a guarantee that is covered one way or the other.

Howard,

I think the deal is just about dead........and I KNOW many county citizens who are already writing to the commissioners to say "No,no,no".
As I said from the get-go waaaaay back in December.........folks were not considering the county component to this deal, and they should have been. The buck stops at the county level.
There would be absolutely no way for Pinellas County Government to analyze this data in time for a reasonable decision to be handed down to our St. Pete government, I would pose. This would seem to make it un-wise for our City Council to go to referendum vote this year. An extension of the bed tax (and isn't there a sales tax component for current subsidies for Tropicana Field??) in these times of slashing jobs and services underway RIGHT NOW in the county budget sessions, well this seems to be a mighty hard sell. The questionable return to hotels/motels derived from the bed tax now seems to negate a positive reaction from county citizens. Finally, it seems that we need to start hearing from unincorporated residents and other incorporated area voters right away on their reaction to this NEW TWIST in proposed funding for a private corporation for their benefit WITH OUR TAX MONEY. Commissioner Welch has already stated in public meetings (i.e. C.O.N.A.) that he would absolutely not be down with county money and taxes supporting this project. The Agency on Bay Management, advisory arm to the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council has already sent a letter to City Council stating that they see that it will be impossible for HDR, the Rays hired impact/environmental mitigation firm to come up with the environmental data for TBRPC to come up with a POSITIVE review on the dredge and filling of our bay that NOW seems to require an ACRE of fill. The original review was based on .6 acres, and already was severely troubling to ABM and the lead scientist for the Florida Wildlife Research Institute.
In point of fact, this plan does NOT go through without county purview and vote by the BOCC.
Again, how much more does one need to know to decide that this plan in this timeframe is not deserving of a vote on referndum language for November?

Lorraine

[Don Mott]

You are so right on Lorraine. I have been wondering why the Rays up to now had not approached the county as they must have known they would need to do. Their tactics regarding that are suspicious. I mentioned this in one of the other blogs too. The city doesn't have all of the financial info and the county has no info. Each week more obstacles pop up. Time is running out quickly and I don't foresee this thing making it to a referendum.

[Steve Lange]

Let's start with the fact that to extend the hotel (bed) tax from 2016 onward (this will be a new tax) for another thirty years one has to first deal with the overlap of seven years from when the stadium will be built, 2009, until the time the Trop would have been paid off, 2016. Will the Rays come up with the money for these seven years which I believe is $5,000,000 a year or $35,000,000?

I do not think so and the price just keeps on going up and up.

But there is more.

The Rays contribution to the proposed stadium remains FIXED at $150,000,000.

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Now add in last Friday's City Staff Report which requires the Rays to build a 3,500 structured car parking facility west of First St. S. plus an 800 structured car parking facility for the Ray's team offices, say at a cost of $65,000,000 total, plus land cost and guess what? You've just added more money to the $450,000,000 Rays stadium cost yet the Ray's contribution remains FIXED at $150,000,000.

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Then you add in another .4 acres of dredge and fill into Tampa Bay because of the City Staff Report requirements to add 62' in stadium site width, and, I can hear what you are already thinking. The project cost remains at $450,000,000 and the Ray's contribution remains at $150,000,000. So you're saying who is going to pay for that extra .4 acres of fill?

Guess who? You!

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Get ready St. Pete the Ray's are in town and they ain't playing baseball!

They're playing us!