A baseball museum at Al Lang? Read the transcript of the April 1 live chat

This week's live chat here on TroxBlog is now finished, but you can read a transcript by clicking on the "Comments" link a few lines below. We talked about lots of different things -- naturally, the baseball stadium proposed for St. Petersburg came up, but so did the alternative idea of making the old Al Lang site a spring training museum.

Let's see, what else? We talked about Daylight Saving Time (yep, it's "saving," not "savings"), the future of mass transit in the Bay area, hurricanes and insurance, and the new wing of the art museum on St. Petersburg's waterfront.

To read today's live chat and/or add your own comments to what was said, click on the "Comments" link at the end of this post, just a few lines below.

Thanks to everyone who took part in today's live chat, or who just stopped by to see what folks were saying. I hope you'll consider dropping by for the next weekly chat, which, barring floods, disaster or my winning the lottery, should be at noon next Tuesday, April 8.

Comments

[Howard Troxler]

Howard here -- hello and welcome to the chat. Let's get things started with some pre-filed questions and comments:

Dumb question of the week, in two parts: (1) If Trop is redeveloped what happens to agreement with Rays to not move franchise for 30(?) years? (B)is new 30 year agreement part of proposal for waterfront stadium? -- Doug

[Howard Troxler]

Hey, Doug, those don't seem like dumb questions to ME. The first answer is, we haven't seen any of the language yet for either the Tropicana site agreement, or the waterfront lease. I would THINK they would renew the requirement for the new site, but we had better make darned sure that it what it says when they draft it!

[guy]

Howard, I’m sorry I wont be spending much time at your now world famous blog site today.
Seeing it is April fools day I am in great demand everywhere.
Later today, me and Hulk Hogan are getting paid a lot of money, to spray paint graffiti on Al Lang and loosen the wiring going into Tropicana Field.
Do you have any good ideas what to spray paint? Howard. How about you “No-Name”??
It can be both pro & con, like Babe Ruth pee’d here, or please get rid of this piece of *#&*#.
Anyway happy fools day to all.
Oh by the way, for Thor.!!!!!! Confucius say “woman who rollick on hillside, not on level“.

[Howard Troxler]

(via e-mail) Some time back you wrote an article about the absurdity of Daylight Savings Time, & I very much agree with you. It has come to my attention that State Senator Posey of Brevard Co. is trying to end DST at least in the state of Florida... hip hip HURRAH! hip hip HURRAY!!! --

Tracey Schmitt

[Ron]

What do you think of this nutty idea to take money from Citizens and invest in start-up insurance companies?

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Tracey Schmitt: Sen. Posey's bill is on my list of possible topics, for sure -- this morning I looked at the clock just before 7, grumpy that it was still dark outside. I doubt we are in the majority, though. Most people seem to like the "extra" hour. I like it too, just not from the middle of March until November...

[Howard Troxler]

Hi guy! Hi Ron!

Re: Al Lang: I like the Babe Ruth idea, but on a more serious note, I've been hearing a lot of talk this week about the idea of making Al Lang a spring training museum if the Rays stadium doesn't fly (or even, doing that INSTEAD of the stadium). Done big-time, with a MLB buy-in and the Grapefruit League teams, could be a cool idea.

Ron: Citizens is already underfunded -- all Citizens is, really, is a future mechanism for assessing the policyholders of the state... so it's just more of an IOU against the future for an already underfunded mechanism.

[Howard Troxler]

Here's a question on that insurance point:

You said "we would be socked with assessments ....." [in event of a major storm] how would that be done..? Thanks. -- Bob Orsini Palm Harbor

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Bob Orsini: The assessments would be levied as a surcharge against everyone's insurance policy - Citizens policyholders first, up to a point, and then on all private policies as well. There are a few exceptions such as worker's comp policies that would not be assessed, but for the most part the pain would be nearly universal. Basically we are "insuring" ourselves by saying, IF we get hit, then after the fact everybody has to pay through the nose. It's less painful that trying to set rates on the front end, that's for sure...

[Howard Troxler]

And another insurance comment:

Our ‘cheerful” Gov is playing a hand that a big one wont hit until he’s of to bigger and better things and if it does that Washing will step in to rescue him. The later is somewhat questionable with a war to pay for and after sampling what it might taste like in the wake of the Katrina mess. Unfortunately, I believe it’s a product of society’s increasingly mood to do whatever is easiest and less costly ‘today’ regardless of the consequences that occur ‘tomorrow’. Am I the only one that expects our governmental leaders to look beyond their next re-election campaign? -- Mike Peters, New Port Richey

[Ron]

It wasn't that long ago that Al Lang was refurbished. Since the Rays announced some time ago that they were moving after this season, did anyone from the city attempt to land another spring training tenant? It seems more likely that they were in collusion with the Rays all along regarding this land.

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Mike Peters: You and me, anyway.

[Ron]

Mike Peters is dead right, but we all know the reality. Once elected, the primary goal becomes re-election. We need term limits for every elected office!!

[Howard Troxler]

Ron, the city was definitely in collusion from the spring of 2007, with the signing of the secrecy agreement, and I believe there have been reports the city knew as early as early 2006 of the Rays' desire.

My understanding is that the economics of getting another spring training team for the site do not work -- the modern trend being huge multimillion dollar facilities, on-site practice fields and all that jazz...

I think it's entirely plausible that the move of spring training to point south is an attempt to broaden the market that would have occurred anyway, regardless of the stadium stuff. In fact, it was a little weird that the Rays would spring-train in their own regular season city.

[Howard Troxler]

Here's a comment that was just posted over on the pre-chat announcement:

The Buzz has a story about Jim Sebesta deciding not to run for county commission. He suggests that a major announcement will be made soon about transportation that he wants to be part of.

My guess is he means the Rays are going to make their announcement about helping out with transportation/ intermodal transportation hub. Designed of course, to make folks think they are so good to the community. OK, that last part is an April Fools!

[Howard Troxler]

On that Sebesta thing, you might be right, but I dunno if that's "major" enough for Sebesta not to be running for county commission. I would think "major" for that would be somethin, I dunno, like he's gonna be a transportation secretary, or new regional mass-transit czar, or somethin. The fact is, the Rays and the Trop developer (whoever that is) ALREADY are orally committed to taking part in intermodal transportation, as they should be.

[Jane]

I've been out of the loop a while but I just saw the post about being "socked with assessments". You mean MORE assessments, right? At the moment I not only have a "windstorm assessment" on my auto policy, but I also have one on the valuable personal property rider I have on my homeowners--yes over and above the outrageous windstorm assessment ALREADY in place, I'm paying an assessment on my son's musical instruments.
I am SO SICK of this. To me, the insurance mess is a far bigger problem than taxes. At least I can point to a school, or a courthouse or a road and say, there are my taxes. What can I point to when I write yet another check to cover an astronomical rise in the way-too-many insurance policies I have to carry?

[Howard Troxler]

E-mailed question regarding the recent House District 55 Democratic
primary:

I still don't understand the tactic of a write-in candidate who is not on
the ballot closing the primary to other candidates... Second question:
Will there be a final election since this a primary. Logic would have you
believe that the answer is no because the winner of this race would be
the only candidate, since there is no Republican in the race... Could you
shed some light on this??? -- Shelly Schwartz

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Shelly Schwartz: Sure, I'll try. If ALL the candidates in a race are in the same party, EVERYBODY gets to vote -- it's an "open" primary. If ANY candidate in a race, write-in or otherwise, is not a member of the same party, ONLY those party members get to to vote -- a "closed" primary. In the House 55 race, a write-in candidate showed up, which also will require a general election in April. This weird Florida law has been twisted and abused by trumped-up write-in candidates, and I think it should be changed somehow... not sure how. :)

Anyone see that Jim Sebesta has decided to ship running for county commission? He says a major announcement is coming soon - which will be the Rays announcement that they will help build an intermodal transportation hub. Guess they are going to try to gain favor from the community before the referendum in Nov.

Sebesta attended the Trop redevelopment bidders conference.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Jane! You are quite right -- MORE assessments. There are already assessments in place for the '04 storm season, I do believe.

Instead of a schoolhouse or a road, you are paying for our refusal to pay a more realistic cost on the front end. We want to live in Florida, and we want not to pay realistic rates for it.

[Howard Troxler]

Howdy, 12:18 commenter on Sebesta -- I copied over your earlier comment & made a comment on it --

[Howard Troxler]

(via e-mail)

Why do people who used to pay far more in taxes to Massachusetts or Michigan or Maryland suddenly feel overwhelmed by the taxes they pay Florida? -- William Carroll

[Howard Troxler]

Dear William Carroll: I would say that the big change in Florida has been an increase in the RELATIVE level of taxes, not Florida's absolute rank among the states. Even though we still rank fairly low among the states, there have been sharp increases in taxes, insurance, etc. that have gotten people's attention.

Howard read the Buzz story about Sebesta and then think of it in terms of his Senate connections and the only way to get state money for transportation is through intermodal hubs.

Rays Payroll - much bigger then county commission salary.

[Jane]

Thanks, Howard but I'm not so sure about the "we" part. For instance, I live in an older, concrete block home in a modest neighborhood that has never flooded;I am in a "C" evacuation zone. I am required to carry flood insurance--my neighbor 2 houses down is past the "cut off" and does not. This flood policy goes up $200 every year. Why? because of irresponsible growth in risky areas. I do not think "we" should all be assessed to replace multi-million dollar mansions on Tierra Verde. I agree we should all be accountable for growth, but those who are taking outright risks should be assesssed for that risk. My son's trumpet is not responisble for overgrowth on barrier islands and the destruction of wetlands that used to shelter our inland areas.

[Howard Troxler]

Re Sebesta, hmm, an interesting point, when you put it THAT way... :)

[Ron]

Intermodal transportation hub. Isn't that a fancy term for a bus stop? The only mode of transportation we have around here is by foot, bicycle, bus or car.

[guy]

Howard and Ron ~~ It could not be more clear that the people we have elected to tend to our interests and our welfare, are in bed with big money.
They should however be very careful as to the methods they are using to negotiate behind the cutains.
I think they have already pushed their luck on the legalities of their secret trysts. AND
I like the Museum and would support completely.

[Howard Troxler]

Jane, I do not know about the limits on flood insurance, but until now in Citizens there has been a $1-million cutoff -- we have not been subsidizing values worth more than that. You could argue that even that value is too high... some people in the current legislative session actually want to raise it, though, I think.

[Howard Troxler]

Re: bus stop: hmm, doesn't there have to be a second "mode" for it to be "intermodal"? Or does "walking up to it" count?

B'sides, that's where the new light rail system is going to run!

[Howard Troxler]

It's 12:30, which puts us roughly in th middle of today's live chat. If you're just getting here or have been sittin' there quietly, there's plenty of time to chime in with a different topic or a comment on something we've touched on so far. All you gotta do is not trigger the obscenity filter... (grin)

[Ron]

Howard, any thoughts on the new addition to the Fine Arts Museum? It seems out of place when attached to the classical architecture of the original building.

It is amazing to me that the legislature would even consider raiding Citizens. Those funds are, in effect, the set aside paid for by me and other policy holders to assure our claims can be paid if a hurricane damages our property - and we all know Citizens is underfunded to begin with.

[Howard Troxler]

guy, I thought you had a date with the Hulkster...

Here's how I see the stadium thing. Everything so far is worthless hot air. The only thing that matters is what the contract(s) -- at the Trop site, and with the Rays at the Al Lang site -- say.

Nothing has happened and nothing will happen until we have contracts. And so if at that point, any member of the City Council says, "Well, we've come too far to turn back now," then he or she should be run out of town on a rail. We won't have "come far" at all -- the deal will have just shown up for the first time!

[Ron]

Howard, do you really see light rail in our future? I live in Shore Acres and work by the St Pete-Clearwater Airport. Where am I going to find a connction to light-rail that will be faster and/or cheaper than my current 30-minute drive?

[Howard Troxler]

Ron, personally I don't mind the museum addition -- I kinda like the joint both before and after -- but maybe it's just a matter of taste. You know, they actually have some Real Stuff in there...

[justme]

I like the idea of making Al Lang a museum.. As old as it is..the memories of all the past players who made it big, it would be a crying shame to tear it down.

[Howard Troxler]

Ron, on light rail, that is the all-time key point: It has to be easier to use than to not use! From Shore Acres it would make no sense to drive downtown, then take a train over... but what if there were a park n ride on 38th somewhere...

But this is all fairy tale, depending on hundreds of millions and eventually billions of dollars in a time where we are kickin' dying people out of hospice care.

[Howard Troxler]

justme, I will get around to posting a couple of the e-mails I've gotten from folks propounding this museum idea. With a buy-in from the teams and Major League Baseball, it could be pretty cool. I am a little sensitive to the idea that the site otherwise should be preserved as public green space on a previous waterfront, and NOT that the use somehow "creeps" to a new city hall or some other institutional use.

[Howard Troxler]

You know who we need in these live chats? Thor.

(ducking)

[Ron]

I lived in Miami when the Metrorail was built. It provided two benefits: 1)The landowners where the stations were located got rich. 2) The purse-snatchers and other petty criminals that lived in Overtown were able to expand their base of operations.

[Ron]

A museum at Al Lang? Didn't the owners of that land (us) vote recently to designate it as a park?

[Howard Troxler]

I remember reading an early critique of the Metrorail that, as I recall, nailed a crucial point: The stations weren't where people wanted to use them!

Likewise, in an earlier generation of mass-transit talk many years ago, the idea was to use Tampa's really, really cool old train station as the hub. But amid all the starry-eyed talk was the reality that the station is MANY BLOCKS from the pedestrian downtown, you'd sweat yourself soaking wet getting there, and you'd have to walk by some areas where, let's just say, the police had many customers... yeah, like THAT was going to work.

An intermodal hub is a connector to several types of transportation systems. In St. Petersburg we have surface (streets - that would be Bus Rapid Transit, standard bus, trolley, car), Highway ( interstate and larger corridors) railroad, water, airport, and soon to be light rail - although location will be controversial.

If the Trop site is redeveloped with the Trop left on the site for baseball, an intermodal hub would serve that site beautifully and would also serve the greater community daily.
I guess that's why redevelopment bidders included the hub in their offers. They also said they wold be interested in redeveloping the site with the stadium staying there.

[Howard Troxler]

Re: park at Al Lang: most of the citizens who spoke at public hearings last year SAID they wanted it as a park.

Most of the public opinion I have heard is in favor of making it a park if the baseball stadium doesn't work.

The St. Pete City Council SAID it would designate the land as a park as soon as it updated its land-use regs -- then broke its word.

There was no vote, per se...

[Thomas]

Al Lang field as a spring training museum is a great idea. After all, it basically started here. I was at the same table as the lady who wrote the article about the museum idea. Her other great idea was to turn the parking lot into a park with wide paths that the Saturday Morning market could use, a covered dining pavillion with views of the bay and a small stage on which Mayor Baker could play! Dunno if that part got cut out of her piece or what but our table really loved the whole package.

It would bring to town true baseball fans, manageable numbers and the kind of people who would actually shop and dine downtown. Obviously the Rays will go to every length to see that fans shopping and eating needs are met right inside their stadium.

A museum of spring training could really answer everyones needs - keep a properly sized baseball presence right where it (almost) always been, preserve the waterfront, create a handsome park, create a home for the Sat. monring market and still bring in tourism and dollars

[Howard Troxler]

On the intermodal comment: May it be so, then.

[justme]

I wish they would improve the public transportation here. It's insane that you can not take a bus up 22nd Ave N after 7:05. Plus many routes don't even run on Sunday's (Route 22 which goes from Williams Park -downtown to Tyrone Mall) With the prices of gas creeping up more people would ride the bus's if the schedules were better. So many routes are only once an hour and they don't match up well with the other routes (ie.. the east/west schedule & the north/south schedule).
I think with gas prices we will start seeing a lot more scooter/motorcycles on the roads.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Thomas. Well, that sounds like an attractive idea to me, and actually increases the public use of the (now limited strictly to actual games, with that ugly parking lot out front).

I don't know if an idea like that is enough to STOP the stadium talk, as an immediately preferable alternative, or if it is better held as Plan B if (when?) the major-league stadium idea does not work.

I can't wait to see how heck-bent the city is on making these RFP responses seem do-able no matter what. As I said earlier, it is going to have to be a heck of a contract.

[Howard Troxler]

Re: bus routes: I don't know the status of it, but the mayor and others have been advocates of so-called "Bus Rapid Transit," a series of frequent downtown quick-stop buses more akin to big-city service that the vaguely Soviet traditional bus system. You hop on, you ride three blocks, you hop off, you go the other way... but I believe there has been some bureaucratic difficulty in that idea as well.

I do understand PSTA ridership is up significantly, perhaps itself an indication of economy and fuel costs? I've always wanted to see how hard it would be to get around practically but have yet to do it.

[justme]

Not that this idea would fly. What would be kind of neat with Al Lang since it really is a historical landmark (at least in my book).. is to have different spring training teams play some games there during the spring training months. Kind of like when the Rays go play at Disney. This would give the area a nice mix or teams in our own back yard. The few times I have been in Al Lang I am very much "WOW'd" by being there and to think that famous ball players once played there. It is kind of like FIELD OF DREAMS "if they build it they will come".

[Ron]

The St. Pete Grand Prix is this weekend. I'd hate to see anything that would affect our chances of keeping this event. It has been a great event for the city.

Guy, I think you should paint THOR KICKED HOWARD'S PUPPY - LET'S GET HER!

Actually, I would really prefer to see her fly into the big blue Bug Zapper in Center Field and explode.

The Rays attended the Bayou Highlands Neighborhood Celebration last weekend. They bought some raffle tickets for a drawing..you know... just to show their commitment to the community... and the announcer said over the mic, " What are you guys buying those for - the Rays never win anything."

[Howard Troxler]

justme, yep, that was a theme in what some folks have suggested, and it sounds great!

Ron: I don't think there is any way, zero, none, that the mayor will let the Grand Prix -- which he proudly considers "his" event -- be hurt in all this.

[Howard Troxler]

But, 12:55 -- I read a prediction the other day they are going to win 88 games this year! And, hey, they're undefeated so far...

[Ron]

James Sheilds. Perhaps the first good argument for human cloning.

[Howard Troxler]

It's a remake of the old joke about the Washington Senators: "Washington: First in war, first in peace, last in the American League."

[guy]

What about the Logo the rays have as a registered trade mark, with the Mast and the Sail.
It's on their new schedule.
And that's not April Fool

[get-smart]

Politicians today set up these non-profit organizations that have these fancy names attached to them while they are in office. While they are still in office, they find ways of funding them with public money. They then leave office and put themselves in charge of the org. and collect another $100,000+ at taxpayer expense. Case in point the Lynn case of Ormand Beach. She is robbing us of $120,000.

[Howard Troxler]

Or this one, back when the Bucs were the losingest sports franchise in history:

Q. What do the Bucs and Billy Graham have in common?

A. They both can make an entire stadium of people throw up their hands and yell: J---- C----!"

[justme]

Hey.. Leave Howard's Puppy alone.. LOL

[Howard Troxler]

(I dunno if the dashes were necessary, but I figured I'd err on the side of discretion.)

12:57 From your e-mail to God's ears!

And if they do win 88 - they will have done it in the Trop - so no need to move!!

[justme]

LMAO that is to funny about Bucs & Billy Graham. I remember those days when the Buc's just sucked, yet people still supported them.

[Howard Troxler]

get-smart, in general you are right about politicians setting up various groups... several of them have so-called "leadership funds" that are basically money-laundering schemes for people to give them money.

Evelyn Lynn did say, after the recent unfavorable publicity, that she would work for that outfit for free. Nice gesture, although it did take the article to get her to say it...

[Howard Troxler]

Re: domes: Did anybody see the footage of snow in Minnesota yesterday? Did you hear anybody griping there about playing in a dome?

[Howard Troxler]

Our hour has come and flown past -- anybody want to bring up a final topic, or offer any last words? (Of course, as usual, I'll leave the comments open so folks can add comments after the fact...)

[justme]

Thanks Howard, another enjoyable Tuesday Chat. Thank you for putting this all together every week. Have a pleasant week and look forward to catching up with everyone next week.

[guy]

Well Howard seeing you brought up Billy Graham how about Jeramiah Wright LOL

[Howard Troxler]

Thanks to everyone who took part today, or who came by to take a peek. I will be curious to see if this museum idea has any legs.

I hope you'll think about stopping by for the next live chat, at noon next Tuesday, April 8... here's hoping the Rays are still undefeated by then.

light rail will never work in Pinellas.

[justme]

OK.. I am not seeing where the Ray's logo has the Mast & Sale. I see a baseball diamond with Ray's and the "star"..
This cracks me up, on the Ray's website you can BUY the logo for a wallpaper on your computer. Now who in their right mind would PAY for that? Cheap team.. give it for FREE and be thankful someone wants to download it. Drives me crazy (and yes, some days it is a short drive) when everything is about that almighty dollar.

[justme]

my bad... Mast & SAIL (not sale)

[Howard Troxler]

guy: Hah! Too late!

[Howard Troxler]

justme: Maybe "sale" was a Freudian slip?

guy: Okay, I will say this. Everybody in pundit-world slobbered over Obama's speech, and I thought it was a nice and frank talk about race in America, but did not really address the Wright issue.

I guess I would like to know the full context of Wright's remarks but in the scheme of things here in Florida it has not been my top priority.

Okay, now I really AM goin'... bye all.

[get-smart]

Howard: I thought it might explain the intermodal hub with Sebesta heading up a task force on the feasibility of the hub. The most profitable link would be between 1st Ave S / 16th St. and Pinellas Jail/ Hope Village area on 49th St.N.

[justme]

yeah yeah Howard.. I caught my Freudian slip (my corrected post came before yours..lol). Blame it on lack of sleep, over worked and underpaid.
Well I do look forward to the opening home game of the RAYS next Tuesday evening. The mood & the atmosphere is incredible. I'm just not for a new stadium.

[Chris]

Museums cost lots of money to build and maintain. Who is going to pay to keep the lights on and pay the staff at the baseball museum? It requires paid staff curators, storage space for memorabilia etc. Probably several million plus per year. Who is going to pay to acquire exhibits throughout the year etc.... On the other hand a park costs....

light rail will never work in Pinellas.

Not a good use of waterfront land for another museum.

Why even have another museum when the History Museum is the official keeper of St. Petersburg's history and already has a substantial collection of our baseball articles - and a professional staff to curate exhibitons.

The newer museums are struggling to stay afloat - Florida International and Carter Woodson, and the latter is an excellent museum. Florida International has lived off political cronyism and the public dole for years. Even the much beloved Great Explorations had to ask the city for extra financial help.

And the cultural funding competition is already pretty tough - so we should put another non-profit organization on waterfront property?

Naw! Don't think so.

1:14 Not sure what your point is.

[Thor]

Thor's heart is warmed by the very nice invitations for her to join the quaint little chat on Tuesdays. Thor would love to join, but alas, Thor has a schedule to keep and cannot change plans to accomodate the very kind invite. Perhaps, one day, Thor will skip her pre scheduled commitments and participate in these fine little chats. Thor looks forward to it, perhaps Thor will take the full day and also be able to watch the "Price is Right" with the very talented Drew Carey" Thor has spoken, Thor is wise, Thor is brave, Thor is touched by the kindness from this quaint little site.