How about them Rays?

Hello and happy Wednesday. Check out Aaron Sharockman's story this morning about the Tampa Bay Rays' relatively poor attendance, despite their unprecedented success in the season so far.

My own thinking is that this will improve with time; you can't have an unbroken team history of 10 losing seasons in a row and expect fan support to turn on a dime. I certainly think it's too early to make any kind of declaration that the Tampa Bay area "isn't a baseball town."

I say this as somebody who spent my share of time sitting in a partially filled Tampa Stadium watching the old Bucs under an indifferent ownership, before they became a regular playoff contender (with a new stadium!) in the 1990s. And even the Bucs, at least, had reached the playoffs early in their history, before sliding into a 15-year slump of mediocrity.

The still-new Rays ownership has done everything right when it comes to building fan enthusiasm and community support -- including the most important ingredient, putting a competitive team on the field. I gotta tell you, this is the most exciting and promising Rays team ever. Even so, it wouldn't be surprising to see attendance stay below hoped-for figures for a while longer; the full effect of the team's surge might not even be felt until 2009. But it is hard to imagine the team remaining in the hunt after the All-Star break without seeing some improvement in the attendance numbers.

Now, does anybody besides me feel an emotional tug-of-war between supporting the team and being excited about it, and being skeptical of the Rays' proposed waterfront baseball stadium? I did get one e-mail this morning that made me laugh. It said, in its entirety: "Save the Trop. Go Rays." I am eager to see the team's financing proposal that is supposed to be made public Thursday, but I am worried about whether it will "work," in terms of not requiring tax revenues, or guaranteeing that the sale and redevelopment of the existing Tropicana Field will cover the taxpayers' share of the cost.

Comments

[Larry]

Howard, I believe that if the Rays can be a contender this year, it will go a long way in building community support for their new waterfront digs. I know they have a ways to go, but you know what, they are playing well. I do wish the community would support the team a little more so we could get up the attendance, but I agree with your conclusion that you can't build that support overnight after 10 years of losing. Go Rays!!

[Danny Boy]

I think you are dead on, Howard.

The Rays have been doing great this season. So great, in fact, that we've convinced these diehard fans to take off their away team hats. We are yet, however, to convince them to put a Rays hat on in its place. We've softened their hearts with good baseball; next comes winning their hearts.

The Rays are starting in the red. I'm convinced they are slowly working their way out of that red and will soon pass the even point, eventually generating a dependable fan base that will fill the seats.

35,000 seats? That's debatable.

An emotional tug-of-war indeed. Have you driven through Old Northeast? (Howard you strike me as someone that might actually live in Old Northeast) City code says you are allowed only one sign in the front yard, two if you are on a corner, correct? I wouldn't be surprised to see the ballpark signs outweighing the presidential election signs when the time comes. But how many of the "No New Ballpark" sign owners do not want the new stadium solely because they hate the Rays? There's got to be a Grumpy Gus or two that just can't stand the team, but I'm confident in betting these new ballpark haters have more critical issues behind their beliefs.

Last, if we are going to comment on the attendance for this Yanks series alone, lets not forget that this Thursday is the big day for all of the corporate studs and honcho vendors to pass out free tickets. I'm sure it will be the biggest game of the series. I've been to both games (and will be going to the rest of the series as well) and don't blame the Rays fans for poor attendance; I blame the so-called Yankees fans. No one likes a losing team. Proof in the pudding is that the Yankees aren't showing up to the games and neither is their cheering section, which in the past has been easily 75% of attendance. Times have changed.

Go Rays.

[Chuck]

I blame the Tampa thugs that used to come over with their Yankees jump suits and tilted flat billed caps.

For whatever reason people from Tampa think they're too good to support a team from St. Petersburg, yet the Tampa based Lightning and Bucs get nothing but love from this side of the bay. Sad.

Just one thing to point out - When the Braves were winning division titles year after year after year in the 90s and the early part of this decade, their everyday attendance was pretty poor.

Expansion teams need time to establish a history and a loyal fan base. Winning is the best way to facilitate that process.

[earth muffin]

The current situation reflects the long losing record of the Rays, lack of general support in the bay region for baseball, the slow economy and the fact that even if we built a new open air stadium for the Rays, the attendance would not drastically increase. In the HOT MUGGY RAINY summertime, attendance would decline!
This also presents a counterpoint to the Rays argument that a new stadium would increase attendance. If they cant get fans to come when they have a winning season, then no way will a new stadium (after the newness wears off)be full of fans.
the fact that the new stadium will be on the waterfront is a deal killer for me, even if the Rays pay 100% of the total costs
Save the Trop, keep the Rays off our public waterfront!

[Viking Unique]

We/Our family (former) Yankee and (always) Rays fans are boycotting the Yankee games, not the Rays games -- due to the way Steinbrenner dismissed Joe Torre. We'll go to a Rays game -- but NOT when they play the Yankees. Torre has loyal fans just like Tony Dungy has loyal Tampa Bay fans that now root for the Colts because he is their coach (as well as one heck of a nice person) and we feel he deserves to win. Yankee management is the blame for low Yankee game attendance, even when they play the Rays. Too bad this reason is not listed in today's online poll. (My bet is that it may be the #1 reason -- (former) Tampa Bay Yankee fans unite!)

[Don in St. Pete]

Howard, The Rays are on fire and I couldn't be happier. That being said I'm against anything being built on the Al Lang sight or anywhere on the waterfront. The samrt approach would be to pay of the Trop, then build a new multuse facility at the Toytown Landfill site with a retractable roof. It has plenty of room to build a destination around, and would be centrally located to draw more fans from throughout Pinellas and Hillsborough. It could also be used as a concert venue and a convention center. There could also be mass transit designed into the site to make it even more attractive for future light rail.

[David, of David and Goliath fame!]

So glad to see the Rays doing so well. Love baseball - always have, always will. But under no circumstances may the Rays - or any other developers - build for their own personal profit on the waterfront. And, No Howard, its not a conflicting position to hope for the team to do well, but to expect them to play ball in the stadium they always knew they were going to play ball in when they bought the team and signed a legally binding contract. Besides the Trop does not seem to be a hindrance to the team now - does it!

And now we understand a little more about the Rays rhetoric "No new taxes" --- can you say "PUBLICLY FINANCED STADIUM"! Come on Kalt just try to deny that ( use your standard retort " ---- is a liar").
Use 150 million as Rays donation (a donation is usually not defined as paying what you owe) and then ask for us to make up the rest of 300 million - and that's only if the stadium is built at today's dollars and without overruns. Then of course, to make way for redevelopment that they say they must do to get revenue ( Hines says they will NOT guarantee revenue projections) the city pay for razing the Trop, providing new infrastructure and cleaning up the underground problems at tax payer expense. Yeah - no wonder they' re working so hard- that's a great deal for them. Pretty soon they will dump millions of ad dollars down on the heads of the citizens to get a buy in.

But its not a good deal for us. Anyone wonder why they have not used "economic development" figures to garner support? Because neither the stadium nor the team has provided the economic stimulus in he past. Even the county CVB has no figures to support that. If you do the research you can easily see that many, many sports franchises do not provide the economics they have bragged about in order to get a facility built with public money.

The Rays are not leaving the city - they have made that very clear as repeatedly stated by Stu Sternberg, so this Gary chump who speaks for the Fans organization should stop talking smack and trying to threaten everyone with that idea. Besides - MLB would be hard pressed to let them move when MLB makes more money on expansion teams and putting pressure on those poor unsuspecting municipalities who think they want baseball and are willing to acquiesce to MLBs demands.

I guess we have to endure more of Thor's ridiculous rants about those folks in POWW - Oh, sorry, I guess she calls them POOP. Bet we know she really is NOT a Rays PR person ( yeah, right) and that she's just having some good natured fun and really does love them...right?
Yeah! That's right - THOR LOVES POOP!

Go Rays! Go Trop! Thor Loves Poop! Its Another Great Day in St. Petersburg!

[guy]

In less words, I am a Ray's fan, but the waterfront is the wrong place and will only hurt them.
Tropicana is fine for many years to come.

[Reality]

I’m a Rays fan, and the Rays are doing great, and that’s great… but not worth more of my tax dollars. The Trop is an excellent, and versatile venue for our climate. Everyone who professes the wonders of an outdoor stadium seem to forget one small detail with regard to our area; that being of course, our area’s proclivity for scattered afternoon and evening hurricanes.

If you think attendance is low now, wait ‘til then. We also seem to be forgetting the realities of our current economic status with regard to available discretionary funds. I have a family of 5, and we take in a game at the Trop when we can. Hell, I can’t even consider a family day at Bucs game; I’d need a second mortgage. But even at the reasonable cost of Trop tickets, more than once a week is tough during these trying times.

That said, I think ownership is missing a great marketing, and fan-base building opportunity. Today’s headlines should have read;

“Rays Are in First Place, and ‘I Doesn’t Suck’ say’s Gomes!”

sub-title:

“…neither does the Trop! To prove it, we’re opening the doors to tonight’s game, FOR FREE!) Come Cheer of your First Place Rays, it’s on us!”

That would be a smart move.

[Jim Johnson]

I suspect that if the taxpayers build the RAYS a new stadium the team will be outsourced to India once the money is in the owners' pockets. It's likely. But we can always use the new field for a homeless campsite.

St.Pete has always had an image problem. Forever it was the green benches and geezers. Then the Southside Poverty Pimps. Now the homeless.

The BUCS? Jeez. How many years did they "Go for Ohhhhh?" I've been over the BUCS since like 1980. Outsource them, too.

[Danny Boy]

Sometimes I read these replies and wonder how many of them might have been created by the same person using different handles to bash the new ballpark concept.

Lets get a glimpse of the financing proposal tomorrow and see how the money will be worked out.

NO TAX DOLLARS; PERIOD!

... but go rays!

[mary esther]

Hey Howard:
At the pool today we were talking about how great the Rays are playing - and especially beating those Yankees!! We have a lot of avid Rays fans here in our park, but all watch the games on TV because (1)we do not drive after dark, (2)the price of gasoline. Just seeing all those empty seats on TV is disheartening, but the Fans are out here!

[Steve]

So the Rays have won a few more games this season. So what! Blend that into ten years of mediocracy and what do you have. Still mediocre!

[Not a Fans fan]

I heard the other day that the Rays fired their Public Relations Director because they are loosing the public PR campaign. POWW is kicking their rear end all over the ball park.

A show of hands please! How many of you have noticed a cabillion little "No NEW Waterfront Stadium" signs all over town? OK, one, two, three, twenty thosand you say!

Now another show of hands. How many little blue and white signs? One, two, three, fifteen you say!

Now how many big RED signs popping all over town? Dozens you say?

Before this is over that group called POWW will be victorious in leading the citizens of St. Pete to a landslide victory.

Who are these staunch men and women? These heros who will have songs written about them? These heroines who will be written about in the history books when the Ray's supporters will not even rate a small footnote in the annals of local lore.

I am not a Fans fan. I wish they would leave this town forever. Their corporate greed and manipulation of our government is similar to what happens in totalatarian regimes.

So, Rays, if you want to leave, take the Howard Franklin Bridge. It is the most direct route out of town.