Here's the transcript of the May 6 live chat

In this week's live web chat held earlier today on TroxBlog, we talked mostly about the just-concluded session of the Legislature. Our conversation ranged from evolution to truck uh, "decorations." Check out the transcript by clicking on the "Comments" link at the end of this post, just a few lines below.

Thanks to everyone who stopped by or took part in today's chat. I hope to see you at the next live chat here on TroxBlog! Stay tuned for  announcements.

Comments

[guy]

Howard ~~ lead off bunt

I watched live on TV the Florida house passing bills.
It looked like everyone wanted to get the heck out of there.
Really,
It was disturbing, like the people on the Titanic.
They were talking so fast you could not hardly understand them.

[guy]

I thought nothing worthwhile could come from a meeting like this

[Howard Troxler]

Guy -- the vast majority of bills are decided in the closing days or hours, and I think that sense of looming deadline sometimes is the only reason they get anything done.

I once proposed a weekly "docket" for the session, with a list of bills that had to be passed or killed within a week's time, to space out the Legislature's work, but probably the last-minute panic and horse-trading is exactly what makes it work.

[Howard Troxler]

Here's a pre-filed comment:

This session was like most. They accomplished some good things but left some things hanging, pun intended. The many cuts affecting old folks, children and the education system are deplorable. Certainly so considering the fact that there were not enough votes to end any tax exemptions. There were not enough votes to close any tax loopholes. Any regulation of double dippers in the state pension plan was quickly set aside, I wonder why. Thank goodness there was some common sense regarding the CSX/commuter rail deal that would have cost us a fortune for little or no return. -- Don Mott

[Howard Troxler]

Pre-filed by Larry:

Do you feel that term limits figure into the picture of why the quality of leadership and legislation is so lacking in Tallahassee nowadays. I am in favor of term limits, but it seems that since their time "in the spotlight" is so limited, it encourages them to scramble things through without clearly understanding the consequences of their actions. And what about the Taxation Commission (or whatever it is called) that meets only once every twenty years? Why was their work so "nothing"? I mean Florida is screaming for tax reform. I don't get it. -- Larry

[Howard Troxler]

Larry, based on 25 years' observation both pre- and post-term limits, I definitely believe they have accelerated the level of do-badding in Tallahassee, as well as the race for money and power. I also believe they have added to a sort of "know-nothing" attitude, the absence of institutional memory or ballast.

And yet I supported term limits in 1992 and the right of the people to demand them, and I still remember some of the downright awful and wicked people I have known over the years who, mercifully, were forced out of power by them. So there is a complicated balance sheet to consider.

[Howard Troxler]

Another pre-filed comment:

I too believe in term limits. However, the “two-year” term is just not logical. From my perspective, all terms should be set at 4-years, and limited to 2-terms. If it is good enough for the President, it’s certainly good enough for every elected and/or appointed office in our government, including Judges but excluding Supremes. -- Reality

[Howard Troxler]

Dear Reality: I would strongly, strongly oppose giving members of the state House a 4-year term instead of the current 2-years. I think the lower chamber should always be within reach of an angry population in an election that's in the forseeable future.

[Howard Troxler]

Here's a pre-filed exchange about school vouchers:

Why is it that students enrolled at private schools or those that are home schooled are not subject to FCAT testing? With all the talk of accountability, shouldn't private schools be held to the same standards as public schools? It seems this is a real double standard; espcially when the idea of vouchers comes into play. -- Bruce

Bruce, Because they're PRIVATE. This will be written off as simplistic but private schools are successful in educating students for two main reasons: 1. They control the student body. Until you've been in a classroom you don't realize how great the standard deviation of "selected students" and "gen pop" really is. Being selective is the biggest possible advantage... 2. Quality educators flock to situations that breed success. Again, private schools are "selective" when choosing staff... When this type of situation is created, the FCAT is basically irrelevant. -- Chuck

[guy]

I think the road to running for office should be more clearly marked or made more accessable to those who are not part of a political party or agenda. Yes 2 years is best.

[Howard Troxler]

Howard here on the voucher issue. The answer of the Legislature is, "Parents are the best judges of private schools and the best at holding them accountable." So we don't need an FCAT-style yardstick to help parents reach their judgments.

I think this is complete nonsense. Meanwhile, Chuck's idealized vision of private schools leaves out the gritty reality that some of them are not only no better, but even WORSE than the public schools. Again, the answer might be: So what? Let parents decide in a private market.

Except that, remember, the whole idea here is, "We want you to give us your tax dollars!" So, to that extent, they are not fully "private," and the taxpayers (IMHO) are entitled to SOME standard of accountability in exchange for their money.

[Howard Troxler]

Wait, I am slow here -- Guy, did you use a BASEBALL metaphor to start this chat?

[guy]

I still think the stadium is the main issue in my book of things not to do.

[Reality]

Howard,

You make a tremendous point with regard to the “lower house” getting only 2-years; I yield to your position on that. Perhaps the real problem lay with the candidates and the electorate, relative to my qualification and OJT comment. You’ve given me food for thought; thank you.

[guy]

Also talking about any legislature is a study in frustration.

[Howard Troxler]

What are you most glad that the Legislature DIDN'T pass? For me, I think it was the university bill -- the one that would have tried to fool Florida's voters into putting the state university system back under the thumb of the Legislature, after the voters created an "independent" system back in 2002.

[Chuck]

Private schools that aren't using their instrinsic advantages properly should close up shop.

Just to address something earlier from "Bill", basically calling me a racist - some blather about "excluding jews".

The issue was brought up, essentially asking why the state doesn't impose FCAT standards on private institutions. Opinions of FCAT aside, I don't see why it would be necessary to impose this process on a private institution. FCAT is as much about holding state employees (public educators and administration) accountable as it is about holding the students responsible.

If you want to know why "good" private schools have a higher standard of education you need to look no further than the student body and the staff the institution employs. Unless schools like Shorecrest have recently constructed a SED (severely emotionally dusturbed) wing or hired a new flock of teachers equipped to handle EH (emotionally handicapped) students, the absence of these students stands out as an obvious advantage.

[guy]

Howard,
I wrote a letter to your Newspaper , griping about the crime here in St. Pete.
They did not print it, but they did show a picture of the Chief of police holding hands in church praying.
Also The Chief and Mayor have been at Gibbs high school singing psalms.
I want someone who would take just a tad more action than praying, and singing.

[Howard Troxler]

Howdy Chuck. In your opinion, then, what metric or yardstick should the public seek -- if ANY -- in exchange for providing tax dollars to these private schools, in the form of vouchers?

[Bruce]

I saw where you were coming from Chuck, but it is not fair to impose the burden of slanting the curriculum toward this test when private schools do not have this burden. If these students are so bright, they should take a couple of hours and breeze right through it.

[Michael]

I have to agree. The university bill would have been the worst on the largest scale.

But plenty of bad ideas were thankfully shot down from forced ultrasounds and the anti-Hometown-Democracy to saving our budget with sunken treasure and banning anatomically correct trailer hitches.

Between term limits, short sessions, and all the nonsense they waste time with, I can see why they don't get much accomplished that actually helps Floridians.

[Bob Vaughn]

Many gripes....sticking with state gov: Most interesting thing about double dipping...the size of retirement pay; retired Miami-Dade cop at 84,000-plus!!
Pinellas Teacher writes Times, blaming cheap legislature for underfunding schools. Then she mentions all the chiefs with little to do. Do people not realize they're having it both ways??? BV

[ENough]

From feedback from teachers I know is that FCAT has not made better students, but it has certainly made stronger boxes for kids to be placed -no room for those who think outside the box. I write lesson plans and believe me it is challenging to make them fit.

FCAT does not allow for creative, nor inciteful, thinking. That is why so many kids are willing to line up to get killed in foreign wars (macho-patriots)and why they continue to elect politicians who do not look out for the public good.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Michael. Well, I tried to come up with a few good things they did in this morning's column. But mostly I am grateful they didn't pass some of that stuff, including the anti-evolution bill and ultrasounds.

On the truck issue, you said anatomatically "correct," and I am thinking, those things on the trucks are pretty large...

[Michael]

Having not measured either the real or the 4x4 version myself, I'll take your word for it. Debating the size is as useless as debating a ban.

But at least we're not on the state's clock if we did.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Bob V., and hi ENough. Would that we could give an FCAT on critical thinking...

"Politician A says you should pay less in taxes but get more in government. How does Politician A do this?"

A. Magic.
B. I don't care, as long as I pay less and get more.
C. By borrowing money, sinking the U.S. with debt and crippling our future.

[Howard Troxler]

Michael: Well put.

[Sherman Dorn]

Howard,

I agree on the higher-ed governance proposal's being the worst thing that died, though the Storms-Hays anti-evolution bill is pretty high up as well on the education front.

Then again, I'm one of those ignorant university faculty, so what do I know?

Oh, yes, and I love how the legislature protected "merit" pay for K-12 teachers and the stole $85 million from a university-level program once it became clear that the desired proposals had been rated low in a ... merit process. So I guess they like merit when based on test scores but not when based on scientific peer review.

[guy]

Anmyone here ever work for the school system??
It is a study in Red Tape and beauracracy.
If a teacher read all the mail in their box everyday they would have time for nothing else.
It is hard not to show frustation openly at teacher meetings, they are so confoundingly filled with incompetence. Really.

[Chuck]

Howard,

To answer your question simply -

A comprehensive portfolio submission (from each teacher) to be examined by the state.

Material covered - teacher created material - comprehensive student results - etc...

I'm sure quality institutions already require this from their staff to some degree.

I just don't see the point of imposing high stakes testing on private school students. If money is dependent on results the schools will manipulate the curriculum which in turn results in nothing more than a public school education. Give private educators the freedom to move in another direction.

[Bruce]

Florida may go down as the state that made the term "Do-nothing Legislature" a compliment.

[Chuck]

Guy,

At the risk of blowing my cover - Yes. And you are 100% correct.

While we're on the topic of educational budgets, why give the University of Miami $80 million for a genetics program while taking money away from two public medical schools?

[Howard Troxler]

Chuck, thanks for the answer... I would say, our friends in private schools have resisted that type of thing as "government meddling," and specifically turned back such standards when the Legislature first created vouchers under Gov. Jeb Bush.

We will keep debating this I am sure!

[Bruce]

How about we give public educators the freedom to move in another direction?

[Howard Troxler]

We're a little over halfway through today's live chat. If you've been watching and thinking about chipping in, this is as good a time as any. Also, feel free to bring up a new topic...

[Sherman Dorn]

Signs of the Policy Apocalypse

5. Florida Retail Federation rep on the Taxation and Budget Reform Commission withdraws proposal for effective collection of sales taxes on out-of-state (mail order and internet) sales, "Because legislative leaders promised me they'd do it next session, and they've clearly shown that they're competent and keep their promises."

4. Experiments show that Florida voters cannot tell Johnnie Byrd's old "everything is fine" language from Charlie Crist's new "everything is fine" language.

3. Legislature refuses to require contraception education, but allows trucks to show their gonads in public.

2. Rainy Day Fund renamed to Ha-Ha Just Fooling You Fund.

1. Taxation and Budget Reform Commission puts proposal on the fall ballot to swap local school property taxes for a one-cent increase in the sales tax and the Brooklyn Bridge.

[Rich]

Trox,

You're statement about some private schools being worse than public schools brings up an interesting dilema. Can't those private school parents choose to send their kids elsewhere? In due time they should be out of business. Just like the crummy auto repair shop down the street.

How about the public schools that are worse than the private options?

Those parents have no choice but to send their kids to a failing institution.

I agree that if public funda are used to subsidize private education then there will need to be some accountability.

[Sherman Dorn]

Rich,

At this point, about two-thirds of Florida's counties provide some sort of public-school choice, though the state does not provide any compensation for transportation costs. in addition, Florida law REQUIRES that county school systems provide transportation for any parent who wants to shift her or his child (or children) from a school rated F twice in four years to ANY school rated C or higher.

The existing public-school choice programs are not perfect, but they certainly exist.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Rich, thanks for the comment. This is the age-old dilemma... although the free-market theory is the backbone of Florida's vouchers, I have to say, there is never a shortage of bad auto-repair shops, is there? In fact when vouchers began there were a good number of fly-by-nights that sprang up to take the money.

But, you are quite right there also are public schools that are undeserving, and from which parents should be able to move to more "competitive'' schools.

[Chuck]

Bruce,

In a Utopia I think that would be a great thing but with the amount of money spent each year on education I don't think taxpayers will go for an accountability free system.

Collecting and interpreting data is the driving force of education. We all wish that 11th grade English classes were like the one in Dead Poets Society but you don't realize how big of a pipe dream that is until you step into an 11th grade English class.

[Harv.]

As Tomlin said, "I try to be cynical but I can't keep up". The turth is I've completely given up. Wasn't there a column in the Times recently where some guy who had worked in the system stated the what with all the corruption embedded in all levels of government, that is, city, county, state, and federal, the FBI could have an office in every city in the country and it would be busy full time investigating political criminal activity. It's all about lack of oversight, accountability, greed. What a sad commentary on the current state of human affairs.

[Bruce]

Isn't it the Texas Legislature that meets once every four years for a weekend or something... Maybe we should try that. On the other hand, I've been to Texas.

[Howard Troxler]

On Sherman Dorn's observations about signs of the apocalypse: I didn't know whether to laugh out loud or throw something when the Tax & Budget Reform Comish deferred to the Legislature's "promise" it would fix internet taxes.

(1) The commission exists precisely to do what the Legislature has not done or will not do.

(2) This Legislature is about to go out of business and we will elected a new one. The new one isn't going to fix Internet taxes either.

[Harv.]

As Tomlin said, "I try to be cynical but I can't keep up". The turth is I've completely given up. Wasn't there a column in the Times recently where some guy who had worked in the system stated the what with all the corruption embedded in all levels of government, that is, city, county, state, and federal, the FBI could have an office in every city in the country and it would be busy full time investigating political criminal activity. It's all about lack of oversight, accountability, greed. What a sad commentary on the current state of human affairs.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Harv. Basically I think 8 percent of everything (an arbitrary figure) is waste, fraud, corruption or just B.S.... but I think from time to time we can allow for it and still get something done. :)

[Chris W]

Haven't seen anything on that misbegotten "academic freedom" bill, so I'll put in my $.02 worth.

The whole "teachers should be able to give a critical analysis of evolution" line is breathtaking in its brazen deceptiveness. Creationism / "intelligent design" has no positive predictions, no explanatory power and no independent evidence of its own. It is a very badly reasoned criticism trying to wear an ill-fitting lab coat to look scientific. But it fits in with the (creationist) Discovery Institute's Wedge Strategy. It has the scientific *look* if you don't look to closely, and it can look to the untrained like there is a *real* scientific controversy over evolution instead of one manufactured by true-believers who don't think facts really matter all that much.

[Chuck]

Hook me up with a link to information on this internet tax. I'm not familiar with this.

[Howard Troxler]

Chuck, stand by...

On the evolution issue, I had to laugh at the wording that teachers could not be punished for presenting "objective" scientific information as an "alternative" to evolution.

What does "objective" mean in this context? And who is going to decide whether it is truly an "alternative" to evolution? The test I kept using was NOT whether teachers could spout off about creationism, but whether the bill allowed them to lecture on the Great Spaghetti Monster, which I believe it would have.

[Chuck]

Chris W.

I think this is just something everyone will have to belabor for another generation. All things run their course.

[Howard Troxler]

Chuck, on the Internet tax reform being killed based on promises from the Legislature, I am sure we have this in the Times archive, but the first link I have is to the N.Y. Times Florida newspapers:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080424/BLOG29/677973180

[Bob Vaughn]

Does one have to fill in this "Post a comment" stuff every time to enter comments??
Another subject in the having it both ways department:
Philip Gailey, in Sunday's Times, said "Obama's long relationship with Jeremiah Wright...is fair game for his critics." Then Gailey concludes by calling the criticism "McCarthyism."
He bitches about "guilt by association." BUT he had already said it is "a legitimate concern for voters." If you are not concerned about Obama's association with Wright and William Ayers, seems to me you have a major defect in your thinking.

[Howard Troxler]

Hey, Bob V., under the current setup you do have to fill in the "Post a Comment" box. I hope that eventually the Times will get a better platform for us to conduct these chats.

Re: Gailey: My hometown had two papers, the real one and the scandal sheet. The scandal sheet was always filled with legal ads from divorcing spouses saying, "I am no longer responsible for any debts other than my own."

In that vein, I am not responsible for any opinions you don't like other than my own. :)

[Chris W]

Howard:

The wording of bills like that is very carefully done. You notice that there was no definition of "scientific" in the bill, and the clause saying this bill can't promote the teaching of creationism was a smokescreen.

Creationists and the DI seem to think that evolution is surviving on its institutional advantages alone, and if they could just undermine it then "intelligent design" might have a chance to be more than an asterisk. Philip Johnson and others make no bones about their goal of getting rid of the naturalistic philosophy that gives science its rules and its success, then they can introduce supernatural entities and put God back in the game (as it were).

[Chuck]

I always find attempts at internet legislation fascinating. An uncomfortable air comes about when a room full of computer illiterate try to legislate on internet issues.

The anti-gaming act passed in 2006 was my low point as a registered Republican.

[Bruce]

Bob, I'm glad you don't know any of my former friends. If I had a "where are they now" list, it would be pretty scary.

[Howard Troxler]

Thanks, Chris W.

The interesting thing about this issue is that each side thinks the other is dumb.

I perceive perfectly well the idea -- the hypothesis -- that the universe is "too complicated to have been created by accident." I also understand the claim that various biological structures are "irreducibly complex," meaning they could not have evolved from anything else.

It is an intuitively appealing hypothesis, VERY appealing. Especially if you don't consider the existence of sheer time as the cauldron of natural selection, which nobody does. I guess if you think the world is 5,700 years old, it kinda rules out thinking in those terms...

[Rich]

Sherman,

The public school choice program is great in theory. A little hard to pull off considering there is only so much space in the good public schools to put them. According to the school choice website, there are currently 1,305 students in 8 school districts that are currently taking advantage of this program.

Unfortunately for those that had an option for private school choice (730)at an average taxpayer cost of $4,206/year in 2006, this is no longer an option due to the court's decsion in 2006.

[Chris W]

Howard:

The wording of bills like that is very carefully done. You notice that there was no definition of "scientific" in the bill, and the clause saying this bill can't promote the teaching of creationism was a smokescreen.

Creationists and the DI seem to think that evolution is surviving on its institutional advantages alone, and if they could just undermine it then "intelligent design" might have a chance to be more than an asterisk. Philip Johnson and others make no bones about their goal of getting rid of the naturalistic philosophy that gives science its rules and its success, then they can introduce supernatural entities and put God back in the game (as it were).

[guy]

Hey Bob Vaughn,
Now what is wrong with hanging out with a couple of terrorist's and a whacko orator.
This is a free country.
They just released mega-head on $200,000 bond, not a bad sum for a USF studejnt to lay his hands on.
After all it was only fertilizer in those pipes, dont you carry pipes of fertilizer in your car. LOL

[Howard Troxler]

Chuck: I think the typical member of Congress has a dim awareness that there is something called the internet but is not quite sure what it does.

To quote the character from Avenue Q: The Internet is for porn.

But really, the platform is transparent here -- it don't matter none. All that matters is that a Florida business has to charge its customers tax, and an out-of-state business does not. Instead of a parochial and protectionist policy, which I fear from Congress, instead our state has a deliberate policy of HURTING Florida business to the benefit of non-Floridians. D'oh!

[ENough]

re: academic freedom/creationism. Are you aware that environemntal educators in St. Petersburg park system have been told NOT to use the word "evolution" in their classes for fear of the City being sued by some Christian Fundalmentalist group or some such excuse? So the educators have "evolved" and now use the word "adaptation".

[Chuck]

Howard

The downfall of "Choice" was the horrendous trasnportation costs.

[Jon McPhee]

I second the comment about lack of accountability being a major part of what ails us. Check Thomas Friedman's op ed in today's Times. The few have figured out that they can steal big, do really stupid things with other peoples' money and lives, leave messes of enormous magnitude, and then retire to some sunny spot. Wouldn't it be nice if it were possible to sue legislators and members of the courts and the executive branch for negligence, mis- and malfeasance, breach of fiduciary duties and all that once they finish their terms? Might make 'em think a little about what they're up to. But then, they write the laws that shield them against any responsiblity. Let us all remember the model of Ken "Enron" Lay, who had the good sense to die before sentencing for all his creative accounting and the enormous bad that caused.

[Howard Troxler]

Hi Rich... on the voucher issue, I am much more sympathetic to the corporate tax-voucher program that is targeted specifically toward poor kids.

I have spent a little time in those voucher schools and enough time talking to mothers who were crying in gratitude that a private school "saved" their child, usually a young boy, when they already were headed for being written off in the public system.

And I knew it to be true, with every fiber of my being. I knew exactly the dynamic, knew exactly the dull indifference that their mothers saw coming over their sons' eyes as the public system put them into their box, and they began withdrawing.

[Bob Vaughn]

Well heck, Howard...didn't want you to agree (or disagree) with the boss, but I thought you might have an interesting opinion on that subject..OR some other chat person might wanna. (Is "might wanna" similar to the South's "might could?") BV

[Chris W]

Howard:

The whole point of experimental science is to get around the pull of intuitively appealing ideas. Nothing leads to more bad science than "it stands to reason" or "it cannot be otherwise"; saying things like that usually means you haven't thought your ideas through well enough, because once you do you figure out how they can be wrong (and once you do *that* you can actually test them).

[Howard Troxler]

I thought the sanitized term was "change over time." I actually don't mind it so much, since it gets across the basic idea, nest-say-pah?

[Howard Troxler]

Oh, hell, Bob, I've disagreed with Gailey in print enough over the years and am too old and grumpy to rise to the "If you don't agree with me, you must be kowtowing to your Times bosses" jibe.

:)

[Kyle]

Howard I watched it on TV from the bushes outside your pool deck. I don't feel to safe anymore.

[Howard Troxler]

Chris W.: What you said.

[guy]

Howard, If you are changing the format of your blogs, perhaps it would be neat to have the last blog first.

[Howard Troxler]

On the Obama thing, everybody knows now they can beat on him all day long for not distancing himself fast enough from that guy. And it's a perfectly legitimate criticism to me. A guy runnin' for president has got to figure that his church is going to get looked at sooner or later. True of just about everybody that's run -- remember Jimmy Carter making it a big asset, since he beloned to a progressive integrated Southern Baptist church. But had he belonged to a segregationist church, it woulda been legitimate.

The trick here is goose and gander. The Rs get to play footsie with Bob Jones and Falwell and Robertson and the like without being much accountable, seems to me.

I am waaaaaaaay past the issue though, and am about thinking that anybody in the media who asks Obama about Wright, lapel pins and such (unless something new happens) is pretty much an idiot who is just tryin' to make him look bad.

[Howard Troxler]

Re: last item first, per Guy's suggestion: Maybe so. Or maybe the whole thing should just stream naturally, as in a chat window -- it used to work that way.

Another thing is I wish I had just a little more control over the flow, so I could post comments & answers directly afterward, instead of the reply coming several posts later...

[Chuck]

Haha. Isn't Falwell dead?

Either way, joining that church was a political move early in his career. I can't see someone as intelligent as Obama joining that church for any other reason.

[Rich]

Howard,

I agree. I like the corporate tax voucher program too. Isn't that essentially using tax dollars (giving tax credits)to fund private eduation? If it can help the poor, why not let the same system help the working middle class?

[Chuck]

This

[Chuck]

is the

[Chuck]

problem with streaming chat

[Bob Vaughn]

Now, dammit, you've gone too far, Howard. I never thought nor intended to intimate that you would kowtow to ANYbody. I think so highly of you that I even forgive your occasional lapses,such as buying that "greenhouse emissions" stuff. Enjoyed today, missed lunch. BV

[guy]

Gotcha /chuck

[Howard Troxler]

Bob V. -- I am honored, sir!

[Chris W]

Rich:

It is. Any private school that accepts (even indirectly) taxpayer-funded vouchers should have to (a) take any student that shows up with one and (b) participate in the FCAT so parents have the same measure of school effectiveness that they do in public schools.

Howard,

Actually "adapt" is a much better word cause it takes into account the environmental impact on a living organism. It is the little detail of trying to fit it all into a few thousand years cause some kook has no sense of time nor creative thinking skills. Come to think of it, perhaps FCAT is a product of creationist thinking. LOL.

[Howard Troxler]

Hey, I see it is 1:10, a little past the "official" end-time (and no, that is not an oblique reference to "end times") of today's chat.

I certainly enjoyed hanging out... it had a more casual feel to it than an intense shout-fest over the Legislature's session.... I think I have been a little frazzled by the intensity of the stadium debate, and a nice "non-controversial" topic like the Legislature was a culture shock!

As always, I'm leaving the comments page open for anyone to add things after the fact. THANK YOU to everybody who stopped by or took part today.

I look forward to seeing you at the next chat!

[guy]

Falwell

dead oh my

[guy]

I thought this was a live chat

[Chuck]

Booo...

[ed]

HOWARD-is there anyway your blog entries could be categorized?? 88 is a lot to read. some are real informative while some are not!!