Thoughts on Grothe's arrest and more

Lots of reaction already tonight to news this afternoon that quarterback Matt Grothe had been arrested last week on a misdemeanor charge of serving alcohol to an underage person. Given that Grothe himself is only 20, the most common first question I've encountered in the last 12 hours is "Why is the starting quarterback at a major college serving alcohol to anyone?" Lots of things to address here ...

-- (Just a mid-afternoon update) There's been some question on comments here and elsewhere -- I think a friend of Grothe's called 620 AM this morning as well -- about whether the use of the term "arrest" is accurate. Grothe was not taken away in handcuffs, booked into county jail and did not have bond set by a judge; with lesser charges such as the second-degree misdemeanor he's facing, an officer may choose to issue a "notice to appear" which carries the same charge and the same mandate to attend a required court date. I'll quote directly from the incident report filed on Grothe: "Agent Frank advised Grothe that he was under arrest and will be charged with the sale of alcohol to an underage person, which is a violation of F.S.S. 562.11." I also asked a state spokesperson Friday whether that was the correct language to use and she confirmed that he was arrested, and that a misdemeanor charge is different from a citation.

-- Just to brush up on state law, first: it's perfectly legal to work as a bartender in a licensed establishment once you're 18 (Grothe turned 20 in September). Surprises people, but it's true. And the fact that Grothe was working at the Bull RIng -- serving alcohol and taking tips at a place specifically catering to USF fans -- is not a violation of any NCAA regulations, though I can't imagine the higher-ups at USF are too happy about learning this.

-- A common response on the comments to the original news was that the 18-year-old "investigative aide" who bought the two Coronas from Grothe while working with officers with the state's Division of Alcoholic Beverages and Tobacco ... was some irresistably hot young woman. Not so: this was a male buying the beers, and how weak a defense is that, anyway? When you read the incident report, it's a pretty well-executed sting: The "IA" has his own, valid driver license, showing him to be 18, walks in, has the ID checked at the door, gets no wristband or handstamp or anything to identify his age, walks directly to the bar, orders two beers, is asked to pay $6 for them and does so. Nothing iffy there at all. Remember, this is an institutional crime, with penalties, fines and the potential to lose a liquor license, even though the person who hands over the alcohol is the one charged. That's something I've heard a lot today -- ultimately, the bartender has to know who he or she is serving, and the best way to do that is check ID. If that's supposed to be done at the door, it's either that nobody under 21 is getting in, or there's a stamp or band to identify age. You can argue the drinking age all you want, but it's not going to change the fact that a state law was broken.

-- It's an interesting thing in newspapers today, getting hold of a newsy story in the middle of the day. I knew about this around 2 p.m., and I'm faced with a choice: do I post what I have online, knowing I get it out there first but knowing I also tip other outlets off in time for the next day's paper? Or do I wait until after midnight to post, when other papers have gone to bed? It's kind of like Michigan rummy vs. gin rummy -- do you put down the cards as you get them, or wait until you can go out all at once? In the end, my editors made a wise call, waiting until after 5 p.m., when state offices would be closed and public records would be unavailable to anyone else until Monday, and published then. The Internet continues to change the strategy and philosophy of breaking news ...

-- Which leads me to the story's origins, on a site I'd never heard of until yesterday, usfbs.com. You need a USF or UT e-mail address to register for the site, so I can't vouch for much there, but it's apparently where this story started. I was at Disney with my family Thursday, didn't get back in until after 11 p.m. Thursday, so you can imagine my woe when I find a long-running thread on the message boards at thebullspen.com, pondering this tip about Grothe -- it was too late for me to do anything to verify or deny it. I've tried to be active on USF's message boards because it's a great place to exchange information, though there is the occasional wild-goose chase that comes from following tips. As much as USF fans are wishing this story had stayed unknown, secrecy is rarely a good thing.

-- I think we'll have more discussion in coming weeks about oversight at USF -- whose job is it to know where scholarship athletes are working in the off-season? The easy answer is each sport's head coach, but that wasn't the case with Jim Leavitt, who has more than 100 players to keep track of. He also has nine assistants, and administrators around him, all of whom could help in checking with athletes to make sure a job is appropriate and free from any appearance of impropriety. Tending bar -- even just a few times here and there -- at a watering hole for your school's fans isn't a choice any sensible administrator would sign off on. When the Bull Ring opened in Dec. 2005, the initial newspaper stories even stated that they planned to have USF athletes working there.

-- I'm not saying this scenario has happened at all, but I'll use it as something an athletic administration would just as soon avoid. Let's say an athlete is behind the bar, and fan orders two beers, pays with a $20, says keep the change. Seems benign enough, right, could just be a generous tipper? But what if it's $50, or $100? Where do you draw the comfort-level line? I don't know if the tips at Bull Ring were pooled or not, but you're combining (a) boosters and fans with (b) amateur athletes, (c) alcohol and (d) cash tips as a considerable part of take-home pay. It's almost completely unmonitorable -- not sure if that word exists, but it's not one a college athletic director probably likes.

-- I spoke with a spokesperson with the NCAA on Friday, and she said jobs with tips are especially delicate because the regulations state that an athlete must be paid commensurate to what the job is expected to pay. What that means is if there are two bartenders, and one's a football player and one isn't, and you, as a season ticket holder, are tipping a buck a beer to the other guy and $2 a pop to the player, it's an improper gift. It's that simple. Not sure how it's proven at the NCAA level, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

-- If there's one thing that this arrest echoed from the arrests last month of defensive backs Mike Jenkins and Carlton Williams, it's that all three involve good kids making bad decisions. The crimes themselves are relatively petty -- minor misdemeanors that, as first offenses, will likely turn into six months' probation and some community service. What they represent, however, from two of the most experienced defensive players and a young leader on offense, is poor judgment from someone who must be aware they're under a higher level of scrutiny because of their football celebrity. If it's Leavitt's decision, I don't believe any of the three will miss so much as a half against lowly Elon in September.

-- I'll move away from football for a sec -- Harry Elifson, well-liked as Jose Fernandez's right-hand man as associate women's basketball coach until a year ago, has interviewed for an opening at Miami, where Katie Meier is looking for another assistant. Elifson should know by next week, and if he can get the job, Meier's getting a proven recruiter who will help the 'Canes battle in the super-tough ACC.

I expect quite a lot of feedback and reaction the Grothe story, as the posts on the first story already show. I'll be helping out with our draft coverage all weekend -- I'll say late third round for Stephen Nicholas -- but should have time to check back in here and address some of the comments. Post them here or send an e-mail to auman@sptimes.com ... And by the way, this wasn't one of the three arrests I referenced a few days ago ...

Comments

[Timmy]

Let it go!

[Terry Lucas]

Chad... point noted. Anyways... Go Bulls!

[Chad]

Terry...Not to gang up on you, since it appears that you've riled up a few different people with your take on the situation, but the reason why I say that a DWI/DUI is more serious than being charged with serving alcohol to a minor is pretty simple: the law says so. The former is either a first-degree misdemeanor or a felony (depending on if it's a first-time or a repeat offense), while the latter is a second-degree misdemeanor, which is less severe.

[Anonymouse]

Interesting to read about NCAA infractions other than taking money from a prospective agent.

Nice blog.

[Dave]

Nicholas to the Falcons! He must've made an impression on Bobby Petrino (he certainly did on Petrino's players)

[BullBard]

A young player and program just learned a valuable lesson of personal and institutional responsibility. Mr. Grothe should not repeat this incident and Mr. Leavitt will, hopefully, communicate off-field discipline more enthusiastically.

GO BULLS!

[Jim]

So let me get this straight, you can get drafted into the military at 18 and serve our country, but if your 18 and a bartender serves you A beer, then the bartender is arrested? Looks like the Taliban won today.

[Millo Goldberg]

I'm glad the ATF was there to protect our community from bartenders serving 18 year olds a beer. Maybe they should focus more on the "F" then on the "A".

[Dave]

There's nothing wrong with Grothe working at the Bullring...as long as the law is obeyed. At the Bullring, they should mark underage people with the "X"s that are not easily washed off. In a busy bar, responsibility lies with the doorman more so than the bartender. The more I think about this situation, the more I believe that the Bullring could've made his job easier by easily identifying the underage kids.

I agree with the poster who said it is nice for Bulls fans to get the opportunity to know him. I've met him, but that's because I live in the building next to him. Alumni and off-campus students really don't have many chances to meet players (of any sport) and that's why I like the Bullring's business plan. Perhaps the Bullring should only hire older students.

Saw Bush go to Oakland; any news on Nicholas?

[Ryan Roark]

You're right, Feiss.

It was obviously a great idea for him to work as a bartender.

Look where it got him.

Personally, I'd recommend it to everyone looking to stay out of trouble.

[Ryan Feiss]

What is the deal with people on this board and their blood lust. I would think the fact that Matt served some dude (and not a hot young female) would prove the point that he simply made a mistake. No malicious act was employed. He didn't spot some dude minding his business in a corner and force beer on him. He wasn't looking to impress a girl with beer, which every bar in America is filled with guys buying drinks for under-aged girls. Matt's not a professional bartender. He simply sold to the wrong person. If you've never been a bartender then you wouldn't understand what it's like to have people complain about having to wait for their drinks. You have to be fast and if you don't do it that way, you get fired(though I doubt they would fire Matt). You check a couple hundred IDs a night and every single person that comes back complains if you ask for their ID again. I know its not a popularity contest, it's a job, but sometimes you feel like a jerk for asking the same guy five times for his ID because he hasn't stuck in your memory yet. Side note, I don't understand how selling someone a beer makes you responsible for their mode of transportation home. If a girl buys a greasy hamburger at McDonald's, does the teller have to follow her home to hold her hair until she inevitably regurgitates it. Anyway, I see some point to Matt not being a bartender. It's probably not the best job for a student athlete living under NCAA rule, yet it's certainly a lot more fun than other part time jobs. Furthermore, we're not talking about a strip club or even Empire..it's a team endorsed sports bar, where people go to root for all things USF. He's meeting USF fans and showing that he wants to hang out with people who root for him. If anything, it shows that he's not a primadonna and he's willing to listen to average Joe Public while serving them--albeit with a bonus, as bar tending is hardly like working (its more like dating with a perk of being paid for it).

[Ryan Roark]

Terry...

You have some good things to say on other subjects, but when it comes to legal matters & USF athletics, I think you waved bye-bye to objectivity & common sense a long time ago.

I'm a big #8 fan, but if this is something other than an isolated incident, I'll be begging for Julmiste to look for a 6th year of eligibility.

I hope this will help Matt make wiser choices from here on out.

[A Cub Man]

Typical for this USF football team and typical of Leavitt to give no punishment. It's time USF fans stop being homers and start expecting more from their players than arrests and failed drug tests.

[Dave]

Terry- it seems to me like you are willing to give athletes extra slack just because they play sports. Grothe broke the law- plain and simple. Law does not exist to be circumvented. I agree that the whole drinking age is a bad law and should be changed, and I also think the Bullring is partly responsible, but laws are laws. If it was a regular person, then what would you say? Would you be willing cut any 20 y/o slack? Most of my friends and classmates who are 19 and 20 here at USF are extremely responsible and conscious of the law. I am not willing to cut a guy any extra slack because he is good at sports. Sports are fun, yes, but in the totality of the world, they are pretty unimportant.

[Terry Lucas]

Hey Stephien... never arrested... gosh... do you and Greg belong to the same school of thought?

The only thing I was guilty of in Gainesville was creating a great memory for diehard USF fans. If I was arrested for that... I'm still waiting on the court date. What would be interesting to see is if I ever have anything criminal against me in the state of Florida. I mean... before my last company hired me, a pretty extensive background check was completed. And before I entered into a partnership with my existing firm, they also scoured my life history.

Whether the cop was doing his job... or just profiling is pure suspect. I got pulled over five months ago at 2:30 AM because my top was down on my Porsche as I was driving into my office to get a jump on my days work. I got to play the whole DUI game with the overzealous officer... yet, I had just woken up 20 minutes prior after going to bed early that evening.

You may have the lack of talent part correct... but for the arrest record part in Florida... you need to work on that one. For the clear lack of talent though, it was good enough to play at USF. Where'd you play?

[Stephien Corpotlus]

Wow Terry, no doubt you were a USF player. It is a shame you had no talent because what you lacked in talent, you make up for in ignorance.

Blame the cop, that is great. That cop was doing HIS job. Tell us again, what were you arrested for in Gainesville?

[Bottom Line]

Bottom line is Grothe shouldn't have been working there. He should have been driving a forklift at Home Depot or something.

The fact he is caught up in this is his fault because even being there was a bad decision across the board.

[Terry Lucas]

Chad... The CEO for US Airways has three DUI/DWI's... whichever you prefer to call it depending on the state. He seems to be doing all right nonetheless.

How can you say a DWI is more serious? If no one gets hurt in a DWI, its more a case of poor judgement on the driver's part coupled with overzealous MADD laws that are pretty ridiculous? Bob Huggins just got hired for a second time after his DUI (and I believe there was a chance USF would've hired him had they bailed on RMC at the appropriate time). Tony LaRussa (USF alum)... busted.

Next time you take out a client and have one drink, then drive afterwards, you could be charged for drunk driving if the cop wants to be a prick (sad state of affairs IMO).

Matt made an unwise and ill-informed decision. He's 20 y/o. Life will go on for Matt. For all these people giving him a hard time, look in the mirror and see if you can say you unintentionally dropped the ball on something but didn't get charged. Probably not.

And come the second week of September when we're playing Auburn... the only people bringing this incident up will be jealous Gator loser fans and the losers in Orlando that love FTU/Mickey Mouse U.

[Rich]

Greg,

Was it 21 and up at the bar that night? Did the bouncer let in an underage kid?

If so then it should fall on him because the bartender would assume the bouncer is doing his job correctly.

If it was 18 and up then it's foolish for them not to mark those legal to drink but it is the bartender's responsibility to distinguish those eligible to drink.

[Chad]

While you could argue Grothe was primarily at fault in this particular incident, either by not carding the "investigative aid" or making a poor choice on a place of employment, I believe the coaching staff, along with the compliance department, share the vast majority of the blame here.

First, I realize coach Leavitt and the rest of the staff have to manage a roster of 100 student athletes, but how could no one on the coaching staff not have known what the star quarterback was doing in his spare time, let alone for a part-time job?

Second, where were the compliance folks on this? As a former USF student-athlete, I can remember being told by compliance on a number of occasions what I could and could not do, particularly in the areas of employment. Greg makes a great point by saying that no sensible administrator would ever sign off on letting a student-athlete tend bar at a place that's predominately serving the school's fans. Too many conflicts on interest. But Greg's point also begs a great question: are student-athletes required to disclose part-time jobs?

At the end of the day, I believe a lack of administrative oversight was the biggest factor contributing to Grothe's "arrest." My only fear is that this incident follows Grothe more than an incident like this really should. Not to discount the severity of the what happened, but it's not like Matt was involved in an off-campus brawl or was charged with a DWI. If anything, this incident should serve to highlight the flaws of an administration that should have had the systems in place to prevent this situation from ever happening.

[Dave]

BTW- usfbs.com is a student message board of sorts filled with a lot of nonsense. My guess would be that a student was at the Bullring when this happened and wrote about when s/he got home.

[Dave]

Good entry, Greg. The Bull Ring is culpable as well for not stamping the hand, as I know it can get pretty hectic in there, so even the best bartenders can lose track of who they checked ID on 2 hours ago. But let's focus on the real shocker- the Penn State arrests. Those are far more serious and newsworthy than this. Grothe's crime will be forgotten by everyone except UCF fans. The Penn State issue has program-altering implications.

[USFMikeB]

Generally speaking, charges of this sort usually result in notices to appear rather than actually being booked into the county lockup. When I was younger, I worked in many bars, and unfortunately saw this happen a few times. The only time I ever saw the person taken to jail for this offense was for arguing with the officers, which led to an additional charge of resisting arrest without violence.

In the end, Matt did something stupid. Maybe he was too busy, maybe he thought the guy was of age, I don't know. However, the law is the law, and Matt needs to follow it if he's going to be working in this kind of position.

Regarding the assertion regarding Matt missing playing time due to this charge, I don't really see it as being necessary. This isn't really a big deal.

[Greg Auman]

Bully, he was arrested. It's easy to confuse being booked with being arrested. The language of the report filed by state officers specifically states that he was arrested and given a notice to appear. The fact that he doesn't get into the back of a car and isn't held pending bond is a courtesy that's extended to him that doesn't change the fact he was arrested.

[Stacey]

Agree! Time to find another hang out.

[bully]

I really like the way you put arrested...when he got a notice to appear. I know same thing...but sounds better. The tips are pooled in a bucket and split between all the tenders so nothing there. The level of this "ticket" is close to a speeding ticket in severity. It will all pass. What is funny to me is the way some people change from Matt is great, to what a thug. Support is what is needed! Wrong place wrong time, The bull ring should take some of the blame and I know alot of people that will not go back there, including me!!

[Greg Auman]

Grothe wasn't arrested by HCSO, and the reason he doesn't show up on the site is that he wasn't booked at county jail. Police have the discretion when making a misdemeanor arrest to issue a "notice to appear," in effect, releasing the person on their own recognizance without going through the booking/bond process.

[Terry Lucas]

You make an assumption Greg in your blog that would never hold weight. Grothe's service could be ten times better than the other bartender... hence ten times the tip. Two servers are not created equal. I'd rather tip a nice looking girl that has nice jugs more than a not-so-nice looking girl lacking nice jugs. Tipping is personal preference. Goto a strip bar one day and put my theory to test(If the wife allows it).

Grothe might be the best bartender there... hence the tips are twice what someone might typically get or more.

FWIW... the "investigative aide" is that kid that got picked on in grade school and high school. When this is all said and done, which do you think a girl might be interested in hearing? I'm the starting QB for a major Division I-A program? Or, I'm a investigative aide for the police department? Grothe will move forward. The IA will end up six feet under one day for busting the wrong person.

Stay the course Matt...

[usf fan]

Was he arrested by Hillsborough County Sheriffs Office? If so, I don't his picture under the "arrest inquiry" portion of the website. I have used that site in the past to find past USF players, Bucs players, etc.