St. Pete Bowl: Why not announce Friday?

The Big East bowl situation still has a ton of overlapping and contradicting speculation, so while it seems that USF is very likely headed to the St. Petersburg Bowl, the Meineke Car Care Bowl in Charlotte remains the wild card.

You see more and more bowls picking based on geographic proximity, which puts the least burden on schools and their fans and gives the best chance for a solid crowd. Given that, it seems unlikely that USF would beat West Virginia by so much on the road that Charlotte would choose the Bulls over the Mountaineers, who have a more established record of bringing a strong contingent to bowls.

For USF, the St. Petersburg Bowl might be seen as disappointing, given the high ranking the Bulls had in September, but realistically, it's where they've been pegged for the past month. None of the other lower-tier bowls -- Charlotte, Birmingham or Toronto -- involve a higher payout. And going elsewhere would in the very least cut in half the number of Bulls fans attending a USF bowl game. Short of being able to play a BCS-conference team in Charlotte and playing after Christmas, there's not an advantage in going to Meineke for USF.

My curiosity: Why doesn't the St. Petersburg Bowl announce an invitation to USF on Friday (tomorrow)? If St. Pete got the green light from Charlotte that it won't take the Bulls, it has several benefits for the new bowl:

-- By announcing Friday, they got much more of the spotlight in newspapers across the country, rather than getting buried in with 40-plus teams getting paired with bowls on Sunday. The Conference USA side could be announced late Saturday (the league's title game starts at noon), so it gives the bowl publicity in another day of newspapers and another cycle of TV news broadcasts.

-- By announcing Friday, the bowl -- owned and operated by ESPN Regional -- gets a lot of talk about the bowl during Saturday night's USF-West Virginia game, which is on ESPN2, the same network that will broadcast the St. Pete Bowl two weeks later. Can't see why ESPN wouldn't push for this bonus self-promotion.

-- By announcing Friday, the bowl gets two more days to sell tickets -- St. Pete is on the first day of bowl season, and as a first-year bowl, they want as much of a window as possible to build a crowd. Airfare might be cheaper for the Bulls fans who would be flying into Tampa/St. Pete for the game, making them more likely to travel.

-- Since it's more likely than not that USF will lose Saturday -- the Bulls will be underdogs, however confident they and their fans will be -- announcing Friday allows the bowl to avoid inviting a team that just lost on national television. Just a thought, but if I were running that bowl, I'd lobby hard for the right to get an invitation out Friday before the clutter of this weekend's bowl announcements.

---- The Times' John Romano has a column Thursday on the BCS and the potential for controversy surrounding who is playing for a national championship. And while he's right, I don't know that a four- or even eight-team playoff would be that much clearer a picture this season, simply because there are a huge number of elite teams that are perceived to be nearly equal.

Let's say Oklahoma and Florida both win their conference championships to meet in Miami for the title. All a playoff would do is slightly lessen the number of teams that feel slighted. A four-team playoff? There still would be a complicated selection process, likely involving polls and computer ratings -- how else to you subjectively determine the four best teams in the country? A four-team playoff would likely bring Texas and USC or Penn State into the field with the Sooners and Gators, but would still leave out Texas Tech, which would still have the same record as Texas and a head-to-head win. The three undefeated outsiders -- Utah, Boise State and Ball State -- are still on the outside looking in.

Let's say you approve an eight-team playoff, which would be great for college football. It still would have worthy teams complaining about being left out. Even if you eliminate the Florida-Alabama loser, which takes a second loss but probably finishes in the top eight in the BCS standings, let's fill out the field. Let's take Oklahoma and Texas, which still leaves Texas Tech out. Let's take Penn State and USC as one-loss champions of BCS conferences. That's five, leaving three spots for three undefeated teams. But if any of those lose in the opening round -- I'd think at least two of the three would, seeded against the SEC and Big 12 champs -- you'll have Texas Tech and the Florida-Alabama loser or even Ohio State clamoring that they should have been in the field of eight. Nobody's ever going to be happy.

Comments

[WS]

This makes great sense. St. Pete Bowl could jump everyone on the publicity. Given that ESPN owns the rights they could couple the invitation on the USF/WV broadcast Sat. night giving anyone interested in USF playing post-season a heads up.
Great idea!

[Rich]

8 team playoff should be conference champs only. nothing subjective about deciding it on the field.no wildcards.

6 BCS champs in.

4 highest rated mid-major champs have a play-in game to determine final 2 teams.

games are played at higher ranked champs home field until NC game at neutral site.

keep the bowls. teams that lose in the first round are eligible for bowl games. keep traditional pairings.

[KC]

I think teams, fans and players will get over being slighted if the rules are fixed and not so subject to interpretation.

The solution is to make it more like the NFL. You must win your conference to go to the playoffs. the 6 BCS conference champs go and 2 wild cards. The wild cards come from non-BCS conference champs. The two with the best records and toughest schedules.

The 8 teams are seeded based on rankings.

Is it perfect? NO. Does it remove most of the subjectivity? Yes.

I know...someone will say "Isn't a 12-1 Alabama more deserving than a 12-0 Utah. Maybe, but not under this system. You must win your conference!!

It makes the conference championships more important, however they are determined.

The non-BCS conferences would probably be the 7th and 8th seed and eliminated first round and you are left with the final four from BCS confences.

This year we could have.

1. Florida v 8. Boston College
2. Oklahoma v. 7. Cincinnati
3. Penn State v. 6. Boise State
4. USC v 5. Utah

Unfortunately you have an OK Cincy rematch but the if the top seeds win...what a great match up of UF and USC and Penn State and OK.

And if they top seeds keep winning...you get UF and OK...which is what we probably will see on Jan 8th in Miami.

Even in the NFL you can have an 8-8 conference champ in the playoffs over a 10-6 team. Is that fair? No. But it is what it is. People live with it.

It really is not that complicated.

"All a playoff would do is slightly lessen the number of teams that feel slighted. There still would be a complicated selection process, likely involving polls and computer ratings -- how else to you subjectively determine the four best teams in the country?"

Greg,

You are smarter than that. Does a playoff in college basketball not work? They still have to use thr RPI (Computer Ranking) to help determine the 64 teams for the tournament. And yes every year some good teams are on the bubble and left out, but the majority of them get in. a system that includes more than two teams is better than the current bowl system. How about in basketball we just take the #1 and #2 teams in the final poll this year and put them in a championship. What a bunch of garbage.

[Greg is just happy UF is getting in]

I'd rather have 8 teams than 2. Sure a few teams will be complaining, but because it would slight the #9, #10, and #11 teams, does that mean we shouldn't do a 8 team playoff at all? Thats pretty stupid thinking to not do a playoff because someone is always going to be upset. At least with 8 teams we have a better chance of getting a true champion.

Greg,

Don't fall into the group think crap "clamoring that they should have been in the field of eight. Nobody's ever going to be happy"

[Greg is just happy UF is getting in]

BTW is UF really a better 1 loss team than USC, Penn State, Texas, Texas Tech, or Oklahoma?

UF's big win this year? FSU or Miami, the SEC is way down this year after UF and Alabama.

USC at least beat Ohio State (a top ten team)

Penn State beat Ohio State and Michigan State, which are better than ever SEC team except UF and Alabama.

Texas and Texas Tech had garbage non-conference schedules, but the Big12 is vastly better than the SEC this year.

Oklahoma plays in the Big12 and has big non-conference wins over Cincy and TCU.

[USF95]

16 team playoff with all conference winners (11) getting automatic bids and five at large bids. If you don't get into that field then you flat out didn't deserve it. It is completely unfair that Utah, Boise State and Ball State have no opportunity. How is that fair? Every team should have a shot at the beginning of the season. The only teams now that have a true shot are about the top 1/2 of the BCS conferences. Do you think USF gets in undefeated this year over a 1 loss UF or OU? The 16 team would include everyone. You win your conference you get in. If you don't win your own conference then you really don't deserve it anyway. However, there is still 5 at large spots to get. Your national champs but not conference champs? You determine a national title by a vote? That is absolutely insane! That's not a national championship. That's a popularity contest.

[Greg is just happy UF is getting in]

Preach on USF95. You are absolutley correct. That fact that there are as Greg says "there are a huge number of elite teams that are perceived to be nearly equal" is al the more reason for a playoff. Because at the end of this year there will be probably 3 undefeated teams and 5 1 loss teams that all feel like they should be National Champs. Greg's thinking is childish on this one.

[cg]

UF will be a better 1 loss team if they beat 'Bama.

[Windbane]

USF95: yes, an undefeated USF would be in there. Alabama was unranked in 1 poll going into the season. We were 10th in September.

Anyway, I agree that 16 is probably the best way to do it. Seed by BCS.

It is unfair that Ball State and Boise State will be left out, but they also should get lower seeds because they don't have the same SoS.

However, 8 would be easy since you just use the 4 BCS bowls, then add 2 more for semifinals, then the national title game.

[RM]

I think the longer that the St. Pete Bowl waits to announce the CUSA team, the stronger your East Carolina theory appears to be true.

[G.A.]

The remaining C-USA bowls have to wait until after Saturday's game to announce -- Mobile doesn't want to announce Houston because if East Carolina wins, Mobile could have Tulsa. So you won't see any more movement with C-USA teams until Saturday evening, after the title games.

[G.A.]

You're not going to see a 16-team playoff. Just too many weeks.

And you're not going to see anything where it's only conference champs -- in no season will the eighth-best conference champ be close to the best non-champ. There are four at-large teams in the BCS as it stands -- if they went to an eight-team playoff, I could see the six BCS conference champs and two at-large, but nothing more rigid than that. Then again, I'm childish, so who knows ...

[Greg is just happy UF is getting in]

Amazingly 1AA, Div 2, & Div 3 manage to get in 16 team playoffs each year. Makes you wonder whats wrong with Div 1A. Oh yeah I know, it's all about the $$$$$$$. Too many weeks has nothing to do with it. If it wasn't for the bowl $$$$$ Div 1A could get it done, all the others do.

[Greg is just happy UF is getting in]

Greg, Just admit that you don't know what you are talking about.

[Greg Auman]

I understand the playoff system in place at the lower levels. I'm just saying that I-A isn't going to implement a 16-team playoff. If it happens, it'll be eight or four.

First, even if they get rid of a bye week during the season or start earlier, the presidents will say a four-week playoff interferes with class schedules and fall exams too much.

Attendance isn't a factor with the lower levels. To ask huge crowds of fans to book trips to neutral venues four weeks in a row is asking for half-filled stadiums. It works in the NFL playoffs because there are no neutral sites until the Super Bowl.
Three (or two) weeks of playoff football is more reasonable for NCAAs.

[G.A.]

I did the whole G.A./Greg Auman thing again there. Just didn't want to confuse people again.

[Bulliever]

Why not have a 16 team play off...and whoever has the stronger record gets to play at home...just like the NFL...

Then there is a selection committee to pick the 2 other locations (or the same location) for the Final Four and the Championship...Some other great locations would be Houston, Dallas, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Charlotte, San Diego...Yes, the 4 Bowls (Sugar, Rose, Fiesta and Orange) might be gone, but now it is fair for all the teams, AND it is also fair to all the cities that would like to host this...

A great example is actually happening as we speak with our very own soccer team...The Final Four and Championship are both in TX...and nobody I know feels slighted about that...

[Al]

UCF was the C-USA champs last year and look what USF did to them. Playoffs with all the conference champs would be a lot worse than what we have now.

There are too many also-ran bowls...the Pizza.com and St Pete bowls are a joke...The way the Bulls have been playing, they should stow the equipment Saturday night and hit the study halls.

The Final Four and Championship are both in TX...and nobody I know feels slighted about that...

Posted by: Bulliever | December 04, 2008 at 02:31 PM

*************************************

That's because only a handful of people two scheits about college soccer. Snore!

[Al]

Oops! onlt a handful of people "give" two scheits

[KC]

Going with an at-large non-champ makes it more subjective and that is what people hate so much. It becomes a popularity contest or a beauty pagent.

I agree that a 12-1 Alabama is better than Boston College but without a mathematical formula or strict guidelines who else do you pick for an at large bid?

Texas, Texas Tech, Ohio State, Utah, Boise. Debate on!!

I know the bowls are about money but the decision to go to a playoff is about the integrity of the game and finding a fair solution ot determining a champion.

The two do not go hand in hand and that is why we are at the situation we currently have. Money trumps integrity.

[Bulliever]

Yo Mr. No Name Post at 2:44pm...

Your DID not read my post
I was speaking about the concept...But you are obviously too stupid to get it! So get off the blog....

I think it is good when the Final Four and the Championship game are in different locations from year to year... Just like basketball and I know a lot of people like basketball...

GET IT NOW?

[Bulliever]

KC,

Well said...There is no integrity, it makes you stop to think...

Why not change?

Vegas?

[Stephen Blackehart]

It may seem impractical but I, too, think that a 16-team playoff is the only way to go, with the seeding and home-field advantage working the same way as the NFL. No-one's going to mind it stretching into the first 2 weeks of January, which are nearly academically useless anyway.
Every other plan is mere resistance to this.

Eventually, it's going to happen. You've seen the cracks beginning to show in the BCS' resolve. If they can figure a way to do it without completely killing the bowls (& the concomitant big money), it'll happen. Otherwise, it'll just be a matter of the right amount of outrage by a left-out school (or conference) or one good lawsuit.

"First, even if they get rid of a bye week during the season or start earlier, the presidents will say a four-week playoff interferes with class schedules and fall exams too much."

Greg,

Obviously this is a BS answer by the presidents. It's all about $$$, b/c the playoffs don't interfere with classes in the lower levels.

"Attendance isn't a factor with the lower levels. To ask huge crowds of fans to book trips to neutral venues four weeks in a row is asking for half-filled stadiums. "

Greg,

DO it like the NCAA soccer playoffs, the high seed hosts the games. Then a neutral site for the final 4. If 1AA, D2, and D3 can do it, so can 1A.

[Greg is wrong on this one]

Greg,

Stop acting like you are a university president in it for all the $$$$. Obviously a playoff system works. There are perfect examples of it in D1AA, D2, and D3.

[Come on Greg]

They play on Saturdays, so they can still go to class Monday through Thursday, just like during the regular season. Football is the sport that least affects class time.

[G.A.]

Guys, guys. I like a playoff in college football. I'm just telling you it's not going to start out with 16 teams. Baby steps, people.

[Open your mind]

The other Bowls can still be invovled, they will just be a reward for teams good enough for the post season, but not the playoffs. Kind of like how the NIT rewards teams for NCAA D1 basketball.

[Windbane]

16-team playoff could also start a few weeks into December and the final 4 teams play the 4 BCS bowls. Of course, the Rose Bowl would hate that, but using the bowls is probably the only way to get them to agree with an 8 or 16 team playoff since so many teams would otherwise not be able to play the bowl.

I don't think they'll do 16, either, but 8 is the minimum they should consider. 4 would just be a plus 1 and would be another slight improvement but not really solve anything.

Also, a 16-team playoff would get rid of the dumb idea that only 2 teams from each conference can play the big games.

[Windbane]

Final 8 teams, rather, would play the 4 BCS bowls. first round is at favored team's home (which would reward the top 8 more), as others have suggested. All the same travel dates plus 2 games for semifinals.

[Mike]

A more interesting question for the st pete bowl people might be:

Do you realize that unlike a baseball game where tailgating is prohibited, are you and the city aware/prepared for 20-40 thousand people who plan to spend the afternoon drinking/grilling in your lots and around the trop?

[Chalko]

Did you guys see the AD for the St. Pete Bowl. Al was dressed up like a cell phone out front of Papa Johns Pizza. He challenged Pappa John and their mascot ,Pepper Oni, to a steelcage match. It was amazing. Al is such an idiot!

[Chalko]

Mike, if you really believe that 40K people are going to show up to watch a lousy Memphis team take on a mediocre University of Tampa team you're on drugs.

[Simon]

GA you are correct about the playoff, there is no way they can get to a 16 team thing there. Even if they did, you would still have people screaming and shouting that this team or that team who may have finished 17th, 18th, 19th etc should have gotten in. The other thing, there is no way they can justify taking bowl revenues away from conferences and teams not to mention taking any economic impact away from the traditional bowl cities if you try to move those to home team sites.

In the end it is all about dollars and cents and ensuring the BCS conferences walk away with the most green each and every year.

[Simon]

Regarding the issue of announcing on Friday, they really don't want to do that even though it may appear they get more press between Fri and Sun to tout the bowl. Since it is a new bowl no one outside of the Tampa area really cares about it and most places around the country don't even know there is a bowl in St Pete this year. The real reason not to announce on Friday is you may invite a borderline team who may have a chance at a higher bowl (in this case USF still could get a Meineke bid) and they could tell St Pete they will defer until Sun which then leaves the bowl committee in a jam. Yes it seems to make sense on paper but in reality it really isn't practical and it won't have any real positive impact.

[DELdaBULL]

GA,

Since the pay out is the same why is the Car Care Bowl more expensive than the Gator Bowl on the USF site?

Well, clearly USF would rather go to Charlotte and play for several reasons--ACC opponent, nicer trip for the kids, more established bowl. The only way USF would accept the offer early is if Meineke said they weren't picking USF.

Greg's logic is SO compelling that I can only conclude that Meineke isn't willing to release USF, thus we must still be in the running for the Muffler Bowl, if we win tomorrow.

[G.A.]

Del, where are you seeing that? Are you asking about ticket prices?

The team that goes to the BCS bowl gets $2-million, the Gator/Sun gets $1.5-million and all the rest pay out $1-million each. The league can also issue a check to cover travel expenses, based on mileage, generally ranging between $100,000 and $400,000.

[Simon]

The other thing to consider is that Pac-10 is 4-5 bowl eligible teams short and the Big Ten is I think 3 short so there is potential for the other conferences to have teams fill those spots against some potentially better opponents that Memphis or a Sun Belt team

[G.A.]

Those trades do happen occasionally -- looks like Toronto might have one -- but I'm almost positive you'll see East Carolina or Memphis in St. Pete.

We'll check in with an update after the Tulsa-ECU game, which is at noon. If Tulsa wins as expected, it's possible that Mobile will pick Houston, leaving East Carolina for St. Pete.

But no word yet from Charlotte or SPBowl.